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Should I just let this one go

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
I am having a little boy in September. DH and I are both very much anti-circ, and the more I read about the topic the more angry I get that it is still routinely practiced here in the U.S.

The topic of circumcision recently came up in a conversation with my mom who is a Registered Nurse (R.N.) with over 30 years of nursing experience. Anytime I tried to explain our position to her, she continually interrupted me and insisted that an uncircumcised penis would get infected later in life. She said she saw it a lot when practicing nursing. Anytime I tried to explain to her the research done on the intact penis and how forced retraction led to infections, she would insist that proper hygiene and cleaning prevented infections (true in one sense, but I think she meant retracting in order to clean under the foreskin). Basically she wouldn't listen to anything I had to say.

It is normal for us to disagree on parenting issues. She thinks my cloth diapers are gross and constantly asks me when I'm going to ween DD (18 mo.) even though I continue to tell her that I want to practice child-led weening. She encourages everyone she knows with babies to let them cry-it-out, and she thinks I'm a negligent parent because DH and I co-slept with our first child. I can agree to disagree on these issues and have never pressed them very hard with her, but it really bothers me that she won't hear my reasons for keeping our son intact.

Should I just give up on this since she thinks she knows it all already? My concern is that she may try to retract my son's foreskin during a diaper change or bath. Has anyone else had experience trying to convince a family member who just wouldn't listen at all? How did you handle this?

*Side note: If my mom continues to not listen on this issue, I am not leaving my son alone with her. I simply cannot risk my son's health in the hands of an uninformed medical practitioner, even if that person happens to be his grandmother.

--Kacy
post #2 of 16
I think you need to just let it go. And, I'd tell her flat out that you won't be leaving your son alone with her, since she refuses to respect his bodily integrity (forcing retraction) or learn the facts about the care of the intact penis.
post #3 of 16
Although it is sad that she will not open her mind to learn something new, considering she is in the 'health' field, I agree you are not being heard. If you have email exchanges with her, you can try sending her links to pages where men that were circumcised later in life (after babyhood, when they have memories and words)describe how it affected them emotionally, physically and mentally. Other links about the intact penis. But it sounds like you are talking to a wall. Maybe one day something will open it up. I think you are making the right decision to not let her care for your son at all. It sounds like she would retract him at a diaper change, or in a bath. If she cannot respect your choices and beliefs, it may be that you will see her much less to maintain your own sanity.
post #4 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I think you need to just let it go. And, I'd tell her flat out that you won't be leaving your son alone with her, since she refuses to respect his bodily integrity (forcing retraction) or learn the facts about the care of the intact penis.
post #5 of 16
Agreed. Let it go, but never let her bathe him or change his diaper. I have a feeling even if she did "listen" to you, she couldn't be trusted not to retract since it seems she has that mindset pretty ingrained.
post #6 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I think you need to just let it go. And, I'd tell her flat out that you won't be leaving your son alone with her, since she refuses to respect his bodily integrity (forcing retraction) or learn the facts about the care of the intact penis.
agreed.
post #7 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thanks everyone, for confirming what I figured must be done, but really did not want to admit. In happier news, my MIL who had the same misconceptions as my mom (and even had a son who went through forced retraction and later complications) has been very open to new information.

I had no idea that leaving our son intact would cause such a big uproar amongst family members. But the circumcision rate is still really high here (82%), so I guess I should have been more prepared for their criticisms.
post #8 of 16
I agree with the others, I'd just drop it. You've already done an admirable job of compiling and sharing correct information. However...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meanderinghome View Post
Anytime I tried to explain our position to her, she continually interrupted me and insisted that an uncircumcised penis would get infected later in life.
I wonder how your mom would feel after spending 30 minutes with a similarly-experienced British or Swedish nurse, whose nations have managed to do just fine -- even better than us -- without circumcision of newborns! Also, if you know any MDs who espouse your knowledge and point of view, that could come in handy if you do plan to leave your son with your mom. In my experience, nurses can have very strong opinions but defer instinctively to physicians, who seem to be the only ones who can definitively change their minds.
post #9 of 16
When you parent very differently from your parents they can sometimes take that as a direct criticism. Sometimes the arguing comes from defensiveness. After I reassured my mom that I loved her and thought she'd done a good job of raising me she relaxed a lot.

Annnnd, to some degree it's a boundary issue. At one point I did look my mother in the eye and say "I'm the Mama. I decide." She took offense briefly but she also took the point.

I definately wouldn't leave the baby with anyone who wasn't on board.

On the plus side, if she didn't care about you or her grandbaby she wouldn't bother arguing. It helps to see that my mom's trying to care for us, even when it's misdirected.

Good luck & let us know how it goes!
post #10 of 16
I agree that grandparents want what they think is best too. But they have to respect your decisions. If a relative was making inconsiderate remarks about my parenting choices I would defenitely speak up. I've had to graciously disfuse heated conversations with my sons' great grandmother because she was making comments about my extended breastfeeding. And I had to just bite my tongue and ignore a great aunt who was out of bounds angry that we didn't circumcise. I've had people make comments about the fact that we don't use pacifiers as well...since when are they some sort of necessity? I've had bad remarks about our cosleeping, about our homeschooling, about our decisions not to vaccinate our other children after our oldest was diagnosed with autism (PDD). My BIL still makes asinine remarks about my family being vegetarian. Sometimes you need to speak up. For instance I refused to take my oldest to the Gparents until my FIL was on board with not smoking in the house or around him. They don't even question it now. My MIL thought baby signing was nuts but then she saw how it worked. Sometimes they just need time to get used to the idea of something different. With her being a nurse it's more tricky. I would just say, "I would rather you be a supportive grandparent and MIL and not a nurse. My child has a doctor with nurses and any issues I have I'll direct to him/her.
post #11 of 16
Kacy,
Congratulations on your pregnancy! Your son will be lucky to have such informed parents! As for your mom the nurse, let me suggest a few things. I, too, am a RN. When I went to nursing school, they really didn't discuss circ that much (I did witness many though) and foreskin function was never addressed. So it's likely your mom was just given poor or or non-existent advice in nursing school and that advice was never corrected during her years of practice. It's not her fault. In the world of medicine, things change all the time and it's difficult for anyone to keep up with all the new recommendations.

You said she interrupts and won't listen. I'd just drop the conversation for now. However, if she has email, or if you like to write her letters, provide her with a few links with new medical suggestions for foreskin and retraction. You can nicely say something like "The AAP and doctors no longer recommend retraction and harsh cleaning like they used to think was necessary. Research has shown that retraction actually causes tears and infection so they now recommend to leave it alone". Your mom may never be on board with leaving him intact but maybe by having the new information she won't be one of those nurses passing along bad info to others.
I'm not sure I'd refuse to let her change her grandson. Maybe she has never really seen an intact child before. Maybe you could let her change him but keep an eye on her and remind her no retraction whatsoever is needed or tolerated. I would hope grandma would never intentionally hurt the baby or disregard your wishes. Maybe this will be a great opportunity for her. Of course, you know your mom better than we do - if you really don't trust her after providing the info, then don't let her change or bathe him.

I'm just saying that for nurses and doctors, info changes all the time and she might be receptive to learning more if given the opportunity. Change, especially change of what you have thought was correct for many decades, is hard and can come slowly. But I bet she can learn!

See if you think she'd read these:

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...etraction.html

http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...rics;103/3/686

http://www.kidshealth.org.nz/index.p...page/pi_id/266

http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/aap/ - with the AAP statement of care - apparently, you have to sign up w/ the AAP to read the link on their site. Maybe someone who is a member can provide a direct link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SGWC9yRUG4 _ w/ famous pediatrician, Dr. Spock

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/1/T012000.asp - Dr. Sears

http://www.healthcentral.com/drdean/408/9985.html - Dr. Edell

Hope some of these help!
post #12 of 16
i'm all for educating people when it's a teachable moment, but i would not let her change his diaper. first of all, it has to be a "teachable moment" for it to do any good, and so far her attitude has been to tune out everything the OP says -- so not demonstrating "teachability". more importantly, it is not worth the risk to her son. my brother was retracted by doctors in 1973... which led to repeated infections for his entire childhood, and circumcision at age 16.

i have an intact son and nobody else changes his diapers. to me, it's just not worth the risk, it's easy enough to just do them myself. and my mom never really wanted to jump in and change diapers, even when it was my daughter i just did them all myself. just easier that way. my mom had four kids, and got her fill of changing diapers, i suppose. now it's my turn. LOL.
post #13 of 16
Thread Starter 
My mom brought up the subject of circumcision today. (I decided I'm not going to raise the issue with her, but talk to her about it if she raises the issue.) This time she didn't even mention the "medical" reasons or her opinion as a nurse. Instead she gave the locker-room argument. Apparently she had discussed this with my BIL who said that he remembered intact boys getting picked on in the locker room.

I told her that if her child was getting teased for having a big nose, she wouldn't take that child to go get plastic surgery. I also explained that more parents are leaving their sons in tact, and being intact wouldn't be the anomaly it was 20 years ago.

At this point I think she's getting desperate for a legitimate reason to support circumcision, as the locker room argument seems to be the weakest support for circ, IMHO.

I requested an information pack from Saving Penises. I think she'll be more willing to look at information not on the internet. Plus, she will need something to read the next time she visits us. We don't have cable which means she explores our bookshelves and coffee table.

The more I learn about circumcision the more I HATE the practice. I'm glad my first was a girl because I don't know if I would have researched the subject then as thoroughly as I am now. It's hard to see injustice in something so culturally accepted, so I'm trying to be patient with my mom.
post #14 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meanderinghome View Post
The more I learn about circumcision the more I HATE the practice. I'm glad my first was a girl because I don't know if I would have researched the subject then as thoroughly as I am now. It's hard to see injustice in something so culturally accepted, so I'm trying to be patient with my mom.
me too. i had a girl first, and am grateful for that. also the more i learn, the worse circumcision seems.

good for you to be patient with your mom (since she's not a decision-maker here). if she ever does come around, do report back to tell us!
post #15 of 16
It sounds like your mother is trying to process what she is hearing with what she was taught and "knew" for the last 30 years. She isn't there yet, but the fact that she has changed focus is actually good news! Keep giving her correct information, as non-confrontationally as possible, and she may just get there. And you may actually be helping all the male children your mother will come in contact with as a nurse from now on. Great job!
post #16 of 16
Kacy-
My Dad has worked in health care for 30 years and although he didn't address me directly, he "told" my Mom how concerned he was that we chose to leave DS intact. I just shrugged and am letting it go. He obviously has his own strong opinions (the rest of our families were pro-circ but didn't "voice" it too loudly so we just stated our beliefs and moved on) and I figure we won't get anywhere trying to express our beliefs. So he'll probably always "worry" about DS and as much as I love and respect my Dad, he'll just have to deal with his concerns.
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