Do Your Kids Ever Go to Bed Hungry? - Page 5

[ssh]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

But I do not make two meals or serve endless snacks.

So I guess what I'm hearing is that not being a short-order cook and having snacks available all day IS harsh for some people, LOL. I'm okay with that.

Most people haven't said you need to offer other things at meals. And I've never said anyone needs to serve endless snacks. My DD eats anytime she wants to, but unless it's something that needs to be cooked she can get it herself. She can go to the refrigerator and get a container of garbanzo beans out, get a bowl of cherries, grapes or strawberries, open the container of left over meatloaf, reach in the cabinet and get a box of triscuts. The tomatoes and apples are in a bowl on the counter. Anyone over 2 can learn to get most of their own snacks.

You said your baby feeds on demand. I imagine you eat whenever you want. Why is it wrong for children to eat just when their bodies are hungry? You asked if it was harsh. I said going hungry is unhealthy and can lead to unhealthy eating. Self regulating food intake by listening to your body instead of learning to eat at habitual times or for social reasons is healthier and can prevent obesity and other food issues.

[Sharlla]

yeah ds2 is a major grazer
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[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by BetsyNY

Again, offer something else. Nobody said it had to be a "meal."

I find that many times people use the financial piece to exercise control and because it's a convenient excuse.

She said that her children are always welcome to a PB&J or cereal. I think that IS offering something else.

And, lucky you that you're in a financial situation so that you don't have to worry about eating every day. Not all of us are. That doesn't mean that we are "conveniently" using it as an excuse - it means that we don't have the money to provide unlimited access to expensive foods.

I will say that my son has never gone to bed hungry since he is still nursing and so he gets nutrition that way. But, as he gets older and more capable of fixing himself foods, he will be required to make himself something when he doesn't want what I make for dinner. Thats where cereal and PB&J come in.

[Drummer's Wife]

I also didn't see where anyone said you have to make separate meals and remain in the kitchen all day serving snacks. But that we would never make our kid go to bed hungry.

The special needs/food allergy thing is interesting to me, b/c it's hard to know what people are sensitive to especially kids. I may not (or maybe I do) test positive for milk or gluten allergies, yet as a kid I hated milk and PBJ sandwiches - especially on wheat bread. My parents made me eat them b/c that was the meal served, and I needed milk to grow big and strong. Whatever. I mentioned upthread about not drinking any milk as an adult, and I still wouldn't eat a pbj. I am now 2 weeks gluten and dairy-free (minus cottage cheese I had a couple times - but it's cultured), and let me tell you - I feel sooooo much better. A lot of my health issues have gone away, or subsided a ton. I'm just mentioning this b/c maybe as a kid consuming those things made me feel crummy.

I know people here aren't saying they force their kids to eat whatever is prepared, exactly, but I just think we should let our kids decide what and when they eat. If beans don't appeal to them, have other options available. It doesn't mean you have to be a short-order cook, or that kids will only eat junk food (don't buy it) - but certainly everyone should be able tofill their belly with something they actually like eating.

[cappuccinosmom]

I do not make a special dinner for my son. We all eat the same thing. Before bed, if he is hungry, he has two-three choices.

1) Eat the dinner he didn't eat earlier
2) Have some fruit or yogurt
3) Go to bed hungry

I do something similar. Mostly, the option is carrot sticks or plain yogurt with strawberries. They like them. Have no problem eating them. So if they're *truly* hungry, that's what they'll eat.

However, often the not eating supper is really jockying for something else (like dessert, which we rarely have). When that's the case, they'll refuse the proffered carrot sticks and I'm on to them. So yes, each of my kids has gotten to bedtime having eaten no supper and probably pretty hungry. Their choice.

[heartmama]

it means that we don't have the money to provide unlimited access to expensive foods.

Neither do I, but there are things like beans and rice, potatoes, oatmeal, fruit on sale etc. which are filling but not expensive. Once you have a teenager it is really important to have stuff like this--you can't believe how much kids eat when they grow 7 inches in one year!

[BetsyNY]

forget it

[EdnaMarie]

And give me a break about how "lucky" I am with my situation that you know *zero* about. I'm so lucky to have a son whose sensory needs are so great that he doesn't eat anything besides Cheerios and pretzels. I'm so lucky that he qualifies for nothing in our school system, and insurance won't pay for a feeding therapist. I'm so lucky that I get to pry his BMs from his butt while he screams and cries.

I am so sorry.

I really thought it was clear at the beginning of this thread that I was talking about typically-developing children, and specifically not special-needs children.

I don't think anyone here that does the three-meals-limited-snacks-too-bad is talking about what they would do for a special-needs child. We are talking about what we do for our children who are developing more or less normally.

I hope your son gets the services he needs.

Neither do I, but there are things like beans and rice, potatoes, oatmeal, fruit on sale etc. which are filling but not expensive. Once you have a teenager it is really important to have stuff like this--you can't believe how much kids eat when they grow 7 inches in one year!

That is what we eat already! Not what they would prefer to, say, what I cook. My kids want as alternative dinners, mangos, pineapples, apples, oranges, bananas (and I'm sorry, calorie for calorie these are expensive), walnuts, almonds, and chocolate.

The walnuts thing gets me the most. I mean walnuts are hecka expensive.

She can go to the refrigerator and get a container of garbanzo beans out, get a bowl of cherries, grapes or strawberries, open the container of left over meatloaf, reach in the cabinet and get a box of triscuts. The tomatoes and apples are in a bowl on the counter. Anyone over 2 can learn to get most of their own snacks.

Okay. Those are all expensive foods to us. I only buy canned tomatoes. We do not buy grapes, cherries, or strawberries unless I can get them through WIC organic.

And... my child is three. So, I appreciate that an older child could make her own meal and I cannot wait for that day, LOL. But if my small child wants something, I'm going to be the one to make it, especially if dad's home late.

he eats probably 10-12 good sized bananas a week

We buy 12 bananas for our family per week. That's it. We cannot afford more, we simply cannot. That's what I'm talking about when I say, "We can't afford to have them snacking like that."

[EdnaMarie]

I find that many times people use the financial piece to exercise control and because it's a convenient excuse.

You know, if your examples of healthy alternatives were apples on sale in season, that would be one thing. But the alternatives being offered here- meatloaf? Do you know that we eat meatloaf twice a year? Fresh, seasonal fruits? BERRIES? These are all foods that people living on less than $2,000 month for a family of four cannot afford much of.

I mean I'd love to go Paleo and everything but we live in the city and I lost my WAHM job so we're living on not a lot of cash.

If the suggestion is, give my kids fruit and veggies alternative to those which I've prepared (and usually I prepare frozen ones which are often cheaper than fresh), that's just not going to happen. It would last two days, and then we'd have no snacks for the rest of the week.

Dried / preserved legumes, grains, and frozen veggies make up the majority of our meals. The alternative- bread- is the alternative because it's part of our culture, cheap and requires no additional preparation, not because I want to torture my children with homemade sourdough.

[kittywitty]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

You know, if your examples of healthy alternatives were apples on sale in season, that would be one thing. But the alternatives being offered here- meatloaf? Do you know that we eat meatloaf twice a year? Fresh, seasonal fruits? BERRIES? These are all foods that people living on less than $2,000 month for a family of four cannot afford much of.

I mean I'd love to go Paleo and everything but we live in the city and I lost my WAHM job so we're living on not a lot of cash.

If the suggestion is, give my kids fruit and veggies alternative to those which I've prepared (and usually I prepare frozen ones which are often cheaper than fresh), that's just not going to happen. It would last two days, and then we'd have no snacks for the rest of the week.

Dried / preserved legumes, grains, and frozen veggies make up the majority of our meals. The alternative- bread- is the alternative because it's part of our culture, cheap and requires no additional preparation, not because I want to torture my children with homemade sourdough.

I agree. Food is expensive here. We're now able to grow some of our own and sometimes get lucky at the Farmer's Market, but most of the suggestions for letting kids eat whatever are waaaaaay too expensive for your average family. Seriously. Cherries? My kids if let alone to eat whatever they want will eat pounds a day. And at $4 a lb even one lb a day for a month is $120 just for cherries. And that would only be a few cherries per kid and not all of their food by any means. Bananas are pricey here, too. Not where we used to live, but they are now. I try to let my kids eat as much fresh stuff as they need, but sometimes have to draw the line. I don't think that makes me cruel or "making excuses", that's called reality.

[ssh]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

You know, if your examples of healthy alternatives were apples on sale in season, that would be one thing. But the alternatives being offered here- meatloaf? Do you know that we eat meatloaf twice a year? Fresh, seasonal fruits? BERRIES? These are all foods that people living on less than $2,000 month for a family of four cannot afford much of.

I mean I'd love to go Paleo and everything but we live in the city and I lost my WAHM job so we're living on not a lot of cash.

If the suggestion is, give my kids fruit and veggies alternative to those which I've prepared (and usually I prepare frozen ones which are often cheaper than fresh), that's just not going to happen. It would last two days, and then we'd have no snacks for the rest of the week.

Dried / preserved legumes, grains, and frozen veggies make up the majority of our meals. The alternative- bread- is the alternative because it's part of our culture, cheap and requires no additional preparation, not because I want to torture my children with homemade sourdough.

The mentioning of leftover meatloaf was that it was leftover from dinner. It doesn't matter what food you have, if it's available to eat when your DC is physically hungry not just when it's "time to eat". My suggestion is not to offer your child special alternate foods at dinner, just to let them eat what you have later if they are hungry. Garbanzo beans aren't expensive, beans in general aren't. Brown rice is nutrient rich and not expensive. We have a farmers market store here that has really good specials on their produce, especially in the summer. We rent but there is a raspberry bush on our fence and 3 apricot trees by the back fence. We also have a potted tomato plant. So we have fresh fruit this time of year. It's cheaper right now than canned or frozen stuff.

Also my DD has been getting alot of her own snacks since before she turned 3. You really don't have to fix a piece of cheese or a few triscuts or a container of beans. You just get some of it and put the rest back.

[madskye]

Why is this post in GD? We're not talking about sending a kid to bed hungry as punishment, as far as I can tell? The OP stated that she offers bread and yogurt (acceptable to her child) at every meal, so it's not eat what I make or go to bed hungry punishment?

Why is it about GD?

[EdnaMarie]

"We rent but there is a raspberry bush on our fence and 3 apricot trees by the back fence."

Argh.

Okay. That's really nice for you. We used to have a cherry tree and blackberries, too. We now live in an area where all the berries are contaminated by some worm which can be fatal to humans, so there are NO ORGANIC BERRIES in this entire region, because they MUST kill the worms, or process the berries.

Now, that is not usual and that certainly was not a factor in how we choose to structure mealtimes, LOL. I am just saying... don't assume that everyone has the same facilities as you do.

I mean God, if I had a peach tree and a backyard, my kids would have fresh fruit all summer, too. We live in military housing, and apartment. We grow indoor tomatoes and peppers and if you can find out how to start an orchard in the kitchen, let me know.

Garbanzo beans aren't expensive, beans in general aren't. Brown rice is nutrient rich and not expensive.

But I have to cook the rice for them, do I not? I mean as I understood it, people are saying, "It's really not that hard, just give the kids an easy snack, like fresh fruits."

To which I say, if it's easy, and healthy, it's probably expensive.

We spend 35% of our budget on food. We do not eat out, ever. Believe me when I say, we cannot spare anything on this. I have 8 cans of garbanzo beans a month. That's my budget. If I lose one of those because my child doesn't want barley, then at another meal, the rest of us go without protein.

We have a farmers market store here that has really good specials on their produce, especially in the summer.

Lucky you. I'm happy for you. We used to live near a CSA, too. We don't now.

To madskye, I posted this in GD because I wanted to know what people thought about this type of, I thought pretty standard, family meal type eating. The thing about it is, if you really don't prepare alternatives (or have a mini-orchard in your backyard, I guess), and a child doesn't "feel like" barley and salmon and salad, or even bread, then yes, she will go to bed hungry. To me that is an natural consequence, not an imposed consequence. But it's still a consequence. So that is why I posted it here.

[*LoveBugMama*]

The cherries got me, too.
Here in Norway cherries are $10-12 a lb. Yeah. Not exactly something to snack on whenever you feel like it.

[MusicianDad]

Probably because the OP posted it here.

That being said, I do think sending a child to bed hungry because they didn't want to eat what was served is punishing a child for wanting some control over what they eat and when. Especially if your child is not in a position to access their own shelf/plate/container of snack foods on their own.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

We spend 35% of our budget on food. We do not eat out, ever. Believe me when I say, we cannot spare anything on this. I have 8 cans of garbanzo beans a month. That's my budget. If I lose one of those because my child doesn't want barley, then at another meal, the rest of us go without protein.

I understand your position, but I don't see a child consuming an entire can of garbanzo beans in one meal. I would think it would go more like....the kid eats some garbanzo beans, the rest of the beans are stored for a future meal, and the barley the child didn't eat will be eaten at a future time (either by the child or by someone else). That's how I would do it, anyway.

[2xy]

I also want to mention....

EdnaMarie, your original post asked if people thought you were too harsh. Obviously, some do. Isn't that why you asked....to get the opinions of others?

I know you think of the way you do things as the "standard, family way," but there are lots of different types of families. I have friends and acquaintances who are both poorer and richer than I am, but I don't think any of them are as strict with food as you are. That doesn't mean I think you're horrible for doing things the way you do; it's just not the way I do things.

That being said, military people do qualify for food stamps, WIC, and I believe all branches of service have relief programs for hard times. Just thought I'd throw that out there in case you weren't aware. Most bases also have workshops to help military spouses find work if necessary.

[Drummer's Wife]

Regarding expensive berries or what-have-you, my children know that when they are gone, they are gone (until I can get more - maybe it's a couple days, maybe it's a week or so). My kids had raspberries for a bedtime snack the other night, and the four of them ate the whole $6 package - so, as a consequence, that particular item wasn't available as a fruit for the rest of the week. Not a big deal, b/c the whole point in me buying them was for my kids to enjoy them.

I admit, we do spend a lot of money every month on groceries, and a big portion of that is for fresh produce - but that's just a priority for us, and it may mean making sacrifices in other areas (for example, we don't have cable and I drive a car with 220K miles on it). I'm not saying everyone could afford an abundance of healthy foods if they budgeted right for it, I promise, b/c I've been in a position where I wasn't sure how we were going to be able to buy food until payday - much less fresh, more expensive foods. But even then, we didn't ration food or say no if the kids were hungry (they were younger then, so it meant being creative and yes, preparing something that we did have available to feed them). My older two kids can now cook things for themselves - like the rice example. They know how to dump a cup of rice in the rice cooker and add water and flip the switch. Same for opening a can of beans.

Anyhow, I was also questioning why this was in GD, as it has nothing to do with behavior, IMO, but it is helpful to see what obstacles have mentioned - be it money or time or convenience.

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

We spend 35% of our budget on food. We do not eat out, ever. Believe me when I say, we cannot spare anything on this. I have 8 cans of garbanzo beans a month. That's my budget. If I lose one of those because my child doesn't want barley, then at another meal, the rest of us go without protein.

That is a lot of money to spend on groceries. Have you looked at other shopping options? I mention it because I have been out of work and living on very little savings and a couple hundred dollars from babysitting and I have had to become very aware of where I can get the best deal so we could live until I got a job. I can see that you don't have a lot of choices for snacking because your budget is limited. Trying out another store may free up some of your budget and relieve your stress around this issue, and any stress you may be feeling from losing your job. It really helped me to feel less stressed when there was no job until a couple weeks ago. We have three major stores in our area that are easy to get to and they vary in cost. There is one that I like because I can get the same food and non-food grocery items for $200 a month whereas going to the other one I spend at least twice that amount on the exact same brands. If you have more than one store that you can get to easily then that may be something to look into. Also, if you are lucky enough to have a fruit stand at all where you can get to it I suggest trying it out, they are dirt cheap and have amazingly fresh foods in our area.

[ssh]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

That being said, I do think sending a child to bed hungry because they didn't want to eat what was served is punishing a child for wanting some control over what they eat and when. Especially if your child is not in a position to access their own shelf/plate/container of snack foods on their own.

This is the point.

Not what's in my refrigerator right now that a 3 year old could serve herself. I was just listing stuff in my refrigerator. Sorry if the availability of affordable fresh produce here offends anyone. The OPs example of dinner foods includes salmon which is very expensive here and we can't afford to buy, so I didn't know money was an issue for her, especially early in the thread.

The real issue isn't what foods you have access to. It's giving your DC control over when and what they eat, of what's available. Everyone is focusing on how expensive some foods are where they live instead of answering "Why is it wrong for children to eat just when their bodies are hungry?" Going hungry is unhealthy and can lead to unhealthy eating. Self regulating food intake by listening to your body instead of learning to eat at habitual times or for social reasons is healthier and can prevent obesity and other food issues.