Grandparents

[Lineymom]

I have never posted here. I hope this is the right forum. I am a mother of 3. 2 boys 7.5 and just turned 5 and a 7mo girl.

My brother and I were spanked as children. There were a few times I think it definitely came under the rim of child abuse, but it was "socially acceptible" I guess, at least here in the south.

I have a ok, albeit strained relationship with them. We get along, my kids like them etc. They live nearby and I take the kids there often to swim. They take camping trips often to fish and waterski. It is lots of fun and I have good memories of it from my childhood. I like for my kids to get to do it too. DH is so not into it, I have gone some with them, but it is hard to bring the baby in the heat. I was discussing this with my brother (who btw potty-trained my 2yo neice by spanking) He laughingly said that my parents said they would be glad to take the boys to the lake themselves if I'd let them spank them

They have always been not-to-eager to babysit, not that I ever try to get them to, but now I guess I know this is why!!!!! It is so infruriating because I have GREAT kids. They are a little hyper sometimes, but really they are fun, and I think they are fun to my parents, especially my dad. Their agruments and fusses are very few and far between, especially around my family. I have talked with them about how my parents spanked me and that we need to show them how kids don't need spanking to be good etc etc. This just angers me so much. I don't even know what I am trying to get by posting here about it. There is a part of me that is so sad about this because I want my kids to have a good relationship with there grandparents and another part of me that just wants to avoid them/ get DH to transfer far away, lol. I think how can my kids have a good relationship with them, if I can't. It is like the "disiplinarian" can never be the friend, you know.

I guess I am wondering if anyone can relate or what would you do?

[HeliMom]

First off if it is just your brother speaking for your parents then I really wouldn't let it bother me. I'd try looking at it that your parents have issues with self control when they are angry around children. Since they aren't eager to babysit maybe they are telling you they respect you enough to let you enforce your non-violent approach to parenting but they feel it would overwhelm them if they were in charge and they would not enjoy themselves or be able comply with it.

My MIL is super pro-spanking. She honestly believes that all children MUST be spanked. ( they need it like it's air or something ) My DH has made it very clear the moment she raises a hand to anyone she's out of our lives. She loves my DH very much and would rather die than lose him so she hands off the baby if she gets the slightest bit frustrated. To me that's pretty good. Would I rather she come on over to the UP side of things with us? You bet, but I think her version of compromise is pretty good for her.

[Lineymom]

[QUOTE=HeliMom;15540139]

My MIL is super pro-spanking. She honestly believes that all children MUST be spanked. ( they need it like it's air or something ) QUOTE]

That is my parents' belief. Like all the people in prisons are there because they were not spanked as children (actually I think I remember hearing something along those lines as a child) So will/do your children ever spend time with her like overnight etc? I am wondering if I should approach the issue head-on and talk about it. I really don't want to, I am horrible with conflict around them. I have never talked with them about not spanking the boys, but obviously it is understood that we don't do it and certainly they are not to. It seems most parents that spank that I am aware of don't spank other peoples' kids or allow others to spank theirs so to me my parents are really extreme on this even among their peers.

[HeliMom]

Yeah we do overnight visits as a family. I think also because they are not my parents it easier for me to deal with confrontation/ speak up for my beliefs. I tried getting into a discussion last time about it with my MIL and it did not go well. I tried to be as understanding as I could. I even said I'm sure you wouldn't have spanked if you knew you could have gotten the same results without spanking. Nope she said! She would have done it no matter what. I think though that's just her being defensive? It's very difficult to get an adult to admit they did something wrong. The conversation isn't worth it. I think also she harbors guilt because my husband was in a abusive relationship before he met me. It took him a long time before he was able to tell anyone.

As far as the logistics of a visit go:

I am really strict about respecting my LO's schedules (bed time, food time what not) because I want to make sure all of the major meltdown causes are handled. I am very clear about my attitudes towards discipline. I allow her to see me validate and politely disagree. I also work hard at validating her just like I would with any child. I try to find fun activities that she'd enjoy. (swimming is #1) I find that that having good activities and keeping positive but firm has kept things pretty smooth. We she says something to DD I don't agree with I'd tack on a "some people believe that, but I do not" and let DD make her own call on it as she grows up. I'm really glad my DH wants her in our lives because it's forced me to grow as person and be able to speak articulately about my beliefs!

[Knitting Mama]

I'm so sorry you're in this situation, it really sucks! I'm appalled at your brother's potty training method as well!

I would keep going as you have been for now, and when the baby's a little older accompany them on camping trips. That way your kids get to have the fun of the trip, and the experiences of fun with their grandparents, but you are there as well to make sure your kids don't get hit.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

BTDT. My parents were very pro-spanking and, at least my father, still thinks its an appropriate, even best-practice, parenting style. I've never known what my mother thinks as she was very submissive to my father when I was young. I would say that his "spankings" especially frequently veered into beatings/abuse. Like you, it was important that my children have a good relationship with them.

When they were young (say, younger than 5), I flat-out told my mother that I was not comfortable with dad being around them unsupervised and that they only way they would be able to visit or have time alone with them was if mom supervised my father. I did not actually have the guts to say this to my father's face, which probably says something even now. She agreed. Now that they are older, I have a verbal agreement with both of them that they are never to be struck and if they ever feel they cannot control themselves or the situation, I will happily take the kids -- even if it means driving the 4 hours to get them in the middle of the night. Never happened. While they frequently roll their eyes at my "permissiveness" and make the occassional snide comment to me, they have never harmed or threatened the kids nor spoken out against my decisions in front of them. Good enough for me.

The key to this, IMHO, is the ability to say "This is our decision about how we will raise our children. Can you live with this?" If they say yes, great. if they say no, then at least you know where you stand. It doesn't have to be "confrontational" and it should definitely be "this is OUR decision about OUR kids" sort of deal. If necessary, blame your spouse as they should recognize that both of you have a say in this and that can avoid the idea that you are judging them for their parenting.

But you can't really take your brother's word that this is how they feel. You need to talk to them about it. Probalby not in the context of a specific trip but just in general.

Of course, if your brother is going to be around your children, you need his word that he won't strike them as well. And if he is going to spank his chidlren with yours around, you have to figure out if you can live with that. Its probably a bit much to ask him to change his style with his kids for you.

For this all to work, you have to avoid sounding like you are blaming or judging them. it has to be neutral and respectful. Even if you don't feel at all respectful of what they are doing! You aren't going to convert them with words (though maybe examples will help along the way) and they aren't going to convert you. Start there. It can work, but it does take mutual tolerance.

[Lineymom]

Originally Posted by Evan&Anna's_Mom

Now that they are older, I have a verbal agreement with both of them that they are never to be struck and if they ever feel they cannot control themselves or the situation, I will happily take the kids -- even if it means driving the 4 hours to get them in the middle of the night. Never happened. While they frequently roll their eyes at my "permissiveness" and make the occassional snide comment to me, they have never harmed or threatened the kids nor spoken out against my decisions in front of them. Good enough for me.

The key to this, IMHO, is the ability to say "This is our decision about how we will raise our children. Can you live with this?" If they say yes, great. if they say no, then at least you know where you stand. It doesn't have to be "confrontational" and it should definitely be "this is OUR decision about OUR kids" sort of deal. If necessary, blame your spouse as they should recognize that both of you have a say in this and that can avoid the idea that you are judging them for their parenting.

But you can't really take your brother's word that this is how they feel. You need to talk to them about it. Probalby not in the context of a specific trip but just in general.

Of course, if your brother is going to be around your children, you need his word that he won't strike them as well. And if he is going to spank his chidlren with yours around, you have to figure out if you can live with that. Its probably a bit much to ask him to change his style with his kids for you.

For this all to work, you have to avoid sounding like you are blaming or judging them. it has to be neutral and respectful. Even if you don't feel at all respectful of what they are doing! You aren't going to convert them with words (though maybe examples will help along the way) and they aren't going to convert you. Start there. It can work, but it does take mutual tolerance.

Thanks.
I totally like everything you say. I really have this kind of understanding with them even though we have not had an actual discussion. I know they (nor my brother) would never hit my children w/o me saying it was ok. I just didn't realize that this was holding them back from spending time with my kids. I do take my brother's word for it, because it is so what they would say, it just took me hearing it from him to realize it for some reason.
I wish I could talk to them about it... but I am still too much of a wimp. I really just can't... There is other stuff between me and them, too. I am not religious enough, don't bring the kids to church enough, etc. Basically I am raising heathens. I suppose I will just keep my kids to myself until I can figure this out...

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Oh -- sorry, I think I misunderstood the issue. How unfortunate that they (note, not you) are letting this issue interfer with their relationship with their grandchildren.

And I totally understand the "other stuff makes it harder". My parents are also our landlords and that colors all sorts of things I would LIKE to say or do. Nothing like the fear of homelessness to help you bite your tongue. Amusingly enough, my parents are routinely annoyed by the fact that we do take (in their words "force") the kids to go to church! And we give too much time/money/energy to the church, etc. Funny how things can be so different and end up with the same issues!

[Lineymom]

Originally Posted by Evan&Anna's_Mom

Oh -- sorry, I think I misunderstood the issue. How unfortunate that they (note, not you) are letting this issue interfer with their relationship with their grandchildren.

And I totally understand the "other stuff makes it harder". My parents are also our landlords and that colors all sorts of things I would LIKE to say or do. Nothing like the fear of homelessness to help you bite your tongue. Amusingly enough, my parents are routinely annoyed by the fact that we do take (in their words "force") the kids to go to church! And we give too much time/money/energy to the church, etc. Funny how things can be so different and end up with the same issues!

That is funny.