Happy medium between time in and time out

[chipper26]

So I do think that time outs can be a form of abandonment and have some issues with them, especially for very young children. BUT the whole invite them to time-in idea seems a bit much for me, personally. I feel I need SOME control over a situation rather than giving it all to my dd. Sometimes I need to make the decisions rather than asking her.

By the way, she is 23 months and I haven't really considered time-outs/time-ins until very recently. I know she's very young.

But, today she was spitting on the sofa. This is much less of a problem when she doesn't have food in her mouth. I guess a way to avoid this problem is to not let her eat in the livingroom, which would be a big struggle in itself if she could never eat in there.

So, after pulling her away from the sofa and telling her we don't spit on it, she ran right back at least TWICE to spit on it. Now that I think about it, MAYBE a distraction/redirection of some sort might have worked, but when she's in that kind of mood, it's a long shot. Plus, I want her to know that it isn't acceptable to spit on the sofa.

So, I took her to the bottom step and sat there with her in my lap. I explained that we do not spit on the sofa and that we want it to stay pretty. She cried and flailed around and the first time ran back to... SPIT ON THE SOFA! But I was persistent and brought her back and sat with her again and repeated my mantra.

Was that mostly a time in? I was with her briefly explaining the situation. Maybe next time I wait to "discuss" it until after she's calmed down. Do I pick a more comfortable place to go with her, like the carpet in her room? She's getting to an age where she purposely defies me and redirection isn't working so well. She's becoming more and more challenging.

Sorry so long.

[kimmypoo]

Subbing bc we're in the same boat.

[EzzysMom]

yeah I'd call that a time-in, you stayed with her and talked with her. Removing from the situation is important in a potential-damage case like that. I would try to start with discussing her feelings first though, then later the 'couch won't be pretty if we spit on it' angle. She might be able to accept some of that once you empathize first. I try to encourage my daughter to calm herself down too with deep breaths, demonstrating them myself. I also take time-outs myself when I'm too worked up, I think that really gets her attention and puts them in a more positive light for her as i demonstrate the need to calm down myself sometimes too.

[One_Girl]

When my dd was that age I would remove her to another room and try to distract her or just hold her if she was not happy that I was removing her from the situation. Sometimes I would pack her into the backpack and bring her to the park or for a walk so we could both have a change of scenery (this always made her happy even when she was having fun testing her boundaries). It took a lot of redirection and moving her, usually in just one day though, before she would decide that I really meant that I didn't want her doing a certain thing. I also tried to give her a lace where she could do certain things instead of just telling her not to do them. I don't think that you need to do a time-out/time-in or have a discussion to have authority as a parent.. Removing her from the situation stops her opportunity to do what she is doing (which is you using your authority) and allows her to do something she can do. Instead of finding a punishment you are trying to work with her to find a solution that works for both of you. In the spitting situation I would probably have taken her into the bathroom and told her to spit in the sink not on the couch.

I remember it was hard to accept that I didn't need to use punishment when my dd was younger. I was worried that my dd would turn out naughty and unruly, but I have found that this is not the case. Setting boundaries and enforcing them gently without punishment can work just as well as or better than than setting boundaries and using punishment to enforce them.

[chipper26]

Originally Posted by EzzysMom

yeah I'd call that a time-in, you stayed with her and talked with her. Removing from the situation is important in a potential-damage case like that. I would try to start with discussing her feelings first though, then later the 'couch won't be pretty if we spit on it' angle. She might be able to accept some of that once you empathize first. I try to encourage my daughter to calm herself down too with deep breaths, demonstrating them myself. I also take time-outs myself when I'm too worked up, I think that really gets her attention and puts them in a more positive light for her as i demonstrate the need to calm down myself sometimes too.

This sounds good for many situations, but in this one I'm not even sure how she was feeling. I know she was frustrated, but I don't know what drove her to decide to spit like a mad. Do I empathize with the frustration of being pulled away or not be able to do what she wants?

[chipper26]

Originally Posted by One_Girl

When my dd was that age I would remove her to another room and try to distract her or just hold her if she was not happy that I was removing her from the situation. Sometimes I would pack her into the backpack and bring her to the park or for a walk so we could both have a change of scenery (this always made her happy even when she was having fun testing her boundaries). It took a lot of redirection and moving her, usually in just one day though, before she would decide that I really meant that I didn't want her doing a certain thing. I also tried to give her a lace where she could do certain things instead of just telling her not to do them. I don't think that you need to do a time-out/time-in or have a discussion to have authority as a parent.. Removing her from the situation stops her opportunity to do what she is doing (which is you using your authority) and allows her to do something she can do. Instead of finding a punishment you are trying to work with her to find a solution that works for both of you. In the spitting situation I would probably have taken her into the bathroom and told her to spit in the sink not on the couch.

I remember it was hard to accept that I didn't need to use punishment when my dd was younger. I was worried that my dd would turn out naughty and unruly, but I have found that this is not the case. Setting boundaries and enforcing them gently without punishment can work just as well as or better than than setting boundaries and using punishment to enforce them.

I was able to change the tone by offering her an ice cube... something she could do with her mouth. I just don't want to encourage spitting by telling her to spit in the sink, but I guess that is a better alternative. She won't let me hold her without a struggle when she's mad. She throws herself backwards and I find myself just protecting her head. I am getting some good ideas here... I guess it just takes practice to pull out all the tricks on the spot.

[RoViMama]

I have a 22 mo old. I think if she was spitting on the couch, I would get down at her level and say "we don't spit on the couch, yucky. We can spit in the sink or outside. Do you want to go outside or to the bathroom?" I would wait a couple seconds (5) and then make a choice for her if she didn't make the choice. If she was upset and kicking, I think I would carry her out of the room and sit with her somewhere until she was ready to spit somewhere else. I would spit with her and talk about how much fun it was to spit in the sink or outside. Maybe it would lead to teethbrushing (at the sink) or bubbles (outside).

As I'm writing this, I am thinking about how often I would take the time to do this. If it was at night or the weekend, I would take the time, I hope.

If they get mad they get mad. I have no problem with Vivi having a fit and getting it out of her system. I do stay with her but I'm not going to change my decision about what ever the issue is.

[ssh]

Definitely a time in. You stayed with her and talked with her. Sometimes it's easier to just pick them up and then go about your business. We used time-ins a lot at that age. We had also had a 'if you can't hold my hand I'll pick you up' policy in public places. I also agree with telling her why spitting on furniture is a bad idea.

[prothyraia]

Originally Posted by chipper26

This sounds good for many situations, but in this one I'm not even sure how she was feeling. I know she was frustrated, but I don't know what drove her to decide to spit like a mad. Do I empathize with the frustration of being pulled away or not be able to do what she wants?

Sure.

"You really want to spit on the couch! You're upset that mommy won't let you spit on the couch." etc. etc.

[nd_deadhead]

A 2-yr-old doesn't really get the concept of "don't". Guess what happened when my twin boys found earthworms in the garden, and my Dad told them "Don't eat the worm!"

All your dd heard was "... spit on the couch!", and that's what she did.

The more you phrase things in terms of what she CAN do, the easier it will be for her to comply.

[EzzysMom]

Originally Posted by chipper26

This sounds good for many situations, but in this one I'm not even sure how she was feeling. I know she was frustrated, but I don't know what drove her to decide to spit like a mad. Do I empathize with the frustration of being pulled away or not be able to do what she wants?

Empathize with both. Guess as best you can, if you don't get it right she'll let you know likely She'll see you're trying. And as another person said, finding an outlet where she can spit is a good plan too

[ssh]

Originally Posted by nd_deadhead

A 2-yr-old doesn't really get the concept of "don't". Guess what happened when my twin boys found earthworms in the garden, and my Dad told them "Don't eat the worm!"

All your dd heard was "... spit on the couch!", and that's what she did.

The more you phrase things in terms of what she CAN do, the easier it will be for her to comply.

It always works better to tell toddlers and preschooler what they can do. Like "spit in the sink" or "use gentle hands" or "walking feet, please". Even after they understand "don't" they focus on the last part of what you say.