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About Us....looking for supplement suggestions.

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
At Mamafish's reccomendation, I am starting a thread looking for some input while I wait to save up the $ to do Yasko's test.

Some background on DS: He is now 2yrs old. He was born via C-section (not by choice). He is unvaccinated and was exclusively breastfed until 6 months old and still breastfeeds twice a day. He gets sick alot, mostly respiratory infections, nothing too serious. He had 1 episode last fall that resulted in him needing a nebeluizer and antibiotics which in retrospect he would have been fine without them. I let my fear get the better of me and, as a result, the abx worsened an exsisting candida problem which I think he has had since birth (from me and worsened by the fact he was a c-section). He was sevrely tongue tied at birth (stage 4) and has a heart shaped tongue. This was supposed to be corrected at 2 days old when they clipped it, but apparently did not do it enough and after a lot of LC's with varying opinions, found one who was able to identify the problem. he had his 2nd clipping at 10 weeks old. He is currently gluten, yeast, egg and soy free. He has many other "intolerances" identified on the ALCAT test. We are finding it easy to stay away from the severe and moderate ones, but a little more challenging to stay away from the mild. We are doing the best we can. His "issues" manifest as rashes mostly (eczema type, although may be some yeast ones too) and digestive issues. His BM's are loose and have undigested food in them 98% of the time. He is very small for his age. He weighs about 25 lbs and is in 5% or lower on the weight charts. He is 2 and wears 12-18 month size pants. He is 2ft 7 inches tall last time I checked. He currently takes the following supps:

1) multivitamin (will be swithcing to the thorne research basic kids vitamin soon) I have been using might-a-mins which is from isotonix, but it has fructose in it and I don't like that it's added sugar and not helping the candida issue for sure.

2) Klaire labs infant formula probiotic. Am looking for a different one because our ND "tested" this one and apprently it is not reaching his Large intestine and doing much good. The ND wanted us to take enteric coated probiotic pearls, but they all have soy lecithin in them so they are out. All other enteric coated probiotics are in capsules and he is too little to swallow them...so until we find an alternative, he's sticking with the Klaire labs one

3) Nordic Naturals CLO

4) Iron 5mg (iron bys-glycinate from kirkman labs). He's mildly anemic, although his recent labs were in the normal range. The ND said they are prob in the normal range because we are supplementing so to continue to do so)

5) Aloe Vera 2x/day for gut healing

6) Madre labs whole food vitamin C as for daily use and Sodium Ascorbate when sick.

7) 2,000mg Vitamin D daily

The following I have just started from picking up things here and there on these threads, but am not sure what the heck I'm doing really!

8) Thorne folate ( I have been opening the capsule and giving him a little sprinkle every day...not sure if this is enough???)

9) Jarrow formulas Methyl B-12 - 1 lozenge/day

10) Vitamin K2 thorne 1 drop/day

11) I also give him a drop of vitamin A (5,000mg) maybe every 3-4 days, more often if he is sick

12) Zinc. I take a 50mg capsule and open it and sprinkle a little in with his other stuff when he is sick.

13) Bioplasma cell salts @ 12 /day

I have been trying to give him epsom salt baths for extra mag, but lately he has been taking showers with his daddy . He is also on some homeopathic allergy drops and candida drops. Also I have given DS Digestive Bitters from Nature's Sunshine in the past but they were $$$ and I couldn't keep up with them and honestly I didn't see much of a difference in his BM's anyway.


ME: soon to be 38 years old. Have had vague tummy issues my whole life, never diagnosed as anything. Have seasonal allergies, Was skin tested as a kid for food allergies, but nothing came up. I think I have some intolerances though because I feel better since I went GF with DS. Also have been on ABX WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too much as a child and young adult. I try to avoid them now, but recently had to take them for a severe intractable sinus infection that had been going on for 6 weeks and not respodning to natural tx. Ever since the abx, my tummy is MESSED UP, despite taking probiotics. Also have had sinus issues all my life. Have been told to have surgery - have declined! I take the following but am very bad about remebering to take stuff everyday

I had been taking whole food supplemets as I feel they are better, but when DS got DX with his yeast intolerance, I felt I had to switch since all brands have s. Cervaisae (sp?) in them.

1) Multi Just switched to Thorne basic prenatal (no im not pg, but breastfeeding and TTC)

2) Cal/mag combo (I think it's 500/250)

3) CQ-10 (active form ubiqinol) 100mg

4) Resverotrol mg??

5) Zinc 50mg/ Copper 2mg every other day

6) Taurine 1000mg /day (for heart pitter patters...seems to work)

7) NAC 1200mg/day (I think?)

8) Probiotics (I just switched brands...was taking PB8, not getting good results, switched to Nature's Sunshine probiotic 11...hoping for better results)

9) Carlson's CLO (forget much of the time )

10) ACV (also forget alot)

11) Vitamin D 5,000 daily

12) Biotin (mg???) (I loose alot of hair...thought this may help??)

1) Various Cell Salts (bioplasma, ferrum phos, acne d combo)

I have also had saliva and hair tests in the past (within the last 2 yrs, but don't have the results handy...will dig them out and post later)
Geezzzzuzzzz That's alot of stuff. No wonder Im going broke. That's why I want to do the yasko test...hoping to streamline this. Although I guess it might show we need MORE and then I'd have to start playing the lottery!

Any suggestions are welcome...thanks for reading this novel!!!!
post #2 of 31
The first 3 things I'd try for both you and your son:

1) folate - you want about 200mcg mthf folate, 200mcg folinic. The Thorne vites have plenty, but I bet you can't get the 6 capsules a day of the kids one into your DS. So you might choose to try separate supps for just the folate (both are powders that are pretty tasteless).

2) B12. With all the seasonal allergies & reactions and sinus issues, try more methyl B12 - like 3-5mg a day if you can tolerate it, more for you if you start to see sinus benefits. Go slow increasing it though (like add 1mg/week - the Jarrow stuff is fine, Yasko has drops that are cheaper - but use Jarrow until you figure out if methyl B12 works OK for you, or if you need hydroxy B12).

3) Enzymes, the pancreatic ones we've all been trying over in the Yasko thread.

Also, you might try 2g vite C a day, it helps with histamines and may help deal with your sinus issues.
post #3 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
The first 3 things I'd try for both you and your son:

1) folate - you want about 200mcg mthf folate, 200mcg folinic. The Thorne vites have plenty, but I bet you can't get the 6 capsules a day of the kids one into your DS. So you might choose to try separate supps for just the folate (both are powders that are pretty tasteless).

2) B12. With all the seasonal allergies & reactions and sinus issues, try more methyl B12 - like 3-5mg a day if you can tolerate it, more for you if you start to see sinus benefits. Go slow increasing it though (like add 1mg/week - the Jarrow stuff is fine, Yasko has drops that are cheaper - but use Jarrow until you figure out if methyl B12 works OK for you, or if you need hydroxy B12).

3) Enzymes, the pancreatic ones we've all been trying over in the Yasko thread.

Also, you might try 2g vite C a day, it helps with histamines and may help deal with your sinus issues.
A few questions:

If I open up the capsules and give them to DS, I can get 6 in him no problem, I mix alot of his stuff with a little juice and he drinks it right down. So once I start to use these, assuming I can get the 6 in him, then these have plenty of the folate right? However I plan on finishing the current multi I have (I hate wasting) which has folic acid 400mg. So in addition, I should give DS the folate supp separately right?? 400mg total? I have the folate capsules from thorne (not sure what Mg they are though)

as for myself, the thorne basic prentals have plenty of folate right? no need to take extra??

As for the b-12 is that dosage for me or DS or a starting for both of us? How will I know if methyl is ok or if I/we would do better on hydroxy?

I will try the pancreatic enzymes for both of us...what's the dosage for those? Start low and go slow with those too right? The bottle says take 2 before each meal. if we are both taking 6/day that bottle will last just over a week....yikes that is not cheap!!!!

Thanks!
post #4 of 31
Folic acid fights with the folates to get used, so you'll likely not get most of the benefits until you switch multis. If you can get the 6 thorne caps in him, that's great, an awesome nutrients base for him. Start slowly - you may discover he doesn't need all 6. If you want to use up the old ones, try alternating (Thorne one day, old ones the next). That way he will be getting some folate, and you won't be wasting vites!

The Thorne prenatals have tons, more than Yasko recommends (but should still be fine, and good if you are TTC). If you aren't taking folate right now, you're TTC, and your DS had tongue tie, I'd make it a big priority to switch.

B12, work up to 3-5 drops for each of you. Try methyl - too much makes my guy wild. You'll see side effects if either of you can't handle that much. (You may get a few days of side effects just getting used to the B12, but if they get worse, not better, after 3-4 days, assume methyl groups are the problem). But given sinus issues and seasonal allergies, methyl B12 may really help.

For digestive enzymes, start SLOW. Like sprinkles. I use 4/day for my DS, and I think Shannon is working up to 2/meal, but most people probably don't need that much.

They aren't cheap in a general sense, but they are cheap for enzymes - and they've greatly reduced some of the other supps my DS has needed to take, because he's getting way more nutrients from his food. Not everyone needs them - but for those that do, they can make a world of difference. I'd give up every other supp my DS takes before I'd give up those enzymes. Note - if they work well for you, you'll probably want to get rid of your taurine supp over time. You may be able to phase out quite a number of your other supps as well once digestion and methylation are working better.
post #5 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
Folic acid fights with the folates to get used, so you'll likely not get most of the benefits until you switch multis. If you can get the 6 thorne caps in him, that's great, an awesome nutrients base for him. Start slowly - you may discover he doesn't need all 6. If you want to use up the old ones, try alternating (Thorne one day, old ones the next). That way he will be getting some folate, and you won't be wasting vites!

The Thorne prenatals have tons, more than Yasko recommends (but should still be fine, and good if you are TTC). If you aren't taking folate right now, you're TTC, and your DS had tongue tie, I'd make it a big priority to switch.

B12, work up to 3-5 drops for each of you. Try methyl - too much makes my guy wild. You'll see side effects if either of you can't handle that much. (You may get a few days of side effects just getting used to the B12, but if they get worse, not better, after 3-4 days, assume methyl groups are the problem). But given sinus issues and seasonal allergies, methyl B12 may really help.

For digestive enzymes, start SLOW. Like sprinkles. I use 4/day for my DS, and I think Shannon is working up to 2/meal, but most people probably don't need that much.

They aren't cheap in a general sense, but they are cheap for enzymes - and they've greatly reduced some of the other supps my DS has needed to take, because he's getting way more nutrients from his food. Not everyone needs them - but for those that do, they can make a world of difference. I'd give up every other supp my DS takes before I'd give up those enzymes. Note - if they work well for you, you'll probably want to get rid of your taurine supp over time. You may be able to phase out quite a number of your other supps as well once digestion and methylation are working better.
Thank you!

For the b-12, you said we may see side effects...what sort should I be on the lookout for? We each took 2 lozenges yesterday (will switch to the drops after I finish the lozenges if they are cheaper!) whch I guess is 2mg and so far so good. How long should I do that dose before adding in another mg? Also you said if sxs get worse not better after 3-4 days then methyl groups are an issue...so does that mean I would need to switch to hydroxy form?

I will be ordering the thorne kids multi today and I will do the alternating until I use up the old one..on the days I give him the old one...should I be adding in folate (I have the thorne 5mthrf supp) as well, or is that pointless because the folic acid is competing???

When giving the multi you said start slow...we may not need all 6...how would I know how many he'll need?? Sorry so may questions ...I'll get the hang of it. I have been reading the guide to nutrigenomic testing and learning about all the genes/mutations. I have to read each section 2-3 times. I'm a smart person. I have a graduate degree but reading this stuff makes me
and makes me feel like a total moron!!!
post #6 of 31
Yeah, my graduate degree didn't help keep my head from spinning either .

With B12, you could see wild/hyper, which is *probably* too many methyl groups (but not if it stops in 3-4 days). If it stops, it's just detox/die-off of some sort as methylation moves better. My DS appears a little *sick* (slight fever, whiny, sometimes runny nose or rash).

Don't worry about folate on the alternating days. I'm a fan of keep it simple.

For the multi, just watch him. If you hit a happy place and he's getting 3 capsules at least a day, then stop .
post #7 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
Yeah, my graduate degree didn't help keep my head from spinning either .

With B12, you could see wild/hyper, which is *probably* too many methyl groups (but not if it stops in 3-4 days). If it stops, it's just detox/die-off of some sort as methylation moves better. My DS appears a little *sick* (slight fever, whiny, sometimes runny nose or rash).

Don't worry about folate on the alternating days. I'm a fan of keep it simple.

For the multi, just watch him. If you hit a happy place and he's getting 3 capsules at least a day, then stop .
well- so far with the b-12 I don't see anything out of the ordinary so hopefully it will stay that way. ok so if anything funky that lasts for more than 3-4 days, I should switch to a different form because too many methyl groups so maybe hydroxy would be better? Just want to be prepared
post #8 of 31
Correct. 3-4 days is a temporary reaction, longer than that is likely a problem with too many methyls.

Are you taking the methyl B12 too? The goal for you would be seeing progress with your sinuses.
post #9 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
Correct. 3-4 days is a temporary reaction, longer than that is likely a problem with too many methyls.

Are you taking the methyl B12 too? The goal for you would be seeing progress with your sinuses.
I'm taking whatever is in the thorne prenatals which is 100 mcg as Adenosylcobalamin and 100 mcg as Methylcobalamin and methyl b-12 in addition. (jarrow 2 lozenges which I think is 2000 mcg. Ds is taking whatever is in his multis (the current ones I know is not methy) the new ones will have 67.5 mcg Adenosyocobalamin and 67.5 mcg Methylcobalamin...and then the methyl (jarrow) in addition. (2 lozenges also) Is this overkill for either of us?
post #10 of 31
No, that's probably minimum. Ignore the amount in the multis, very little of that will get absorbed. Just to give you some idea, my son has a couple of mutations that increase his need for B12, and he gets 10,000-12,000 mcg daily (mostly hydroxy, a little adenosyl, he doesn't tolerate methyl groups well).

With your sinus issues, I'd work up your dose quite a bit if you continue to tolerate well.
post #11 of 31
Thread Starter 
For myself I'll do that.....

For DS, I suppose I'm having difficulty figuring out of he's tolerating the meythl well. I think that anything I notice I may attribute to the b-12, but how do you know it's related?

Yesterday his eyes were very red and a bit puffy (not the eyeballs, but under and around his eyes...they are still that way today) Every time he screams or has a tantrum Im trying to figure out if this is unusal or if he's always acted this way...I don't want o assume things kwim? I mean his red eyes could be because he he is allergic to pollen or grass or molds....and he's 2...he always seems to have tantrums and gets whiny (not excessively however). Are the things that would indicate a problem with methyl groups obvious or can they be very subtle?

On the yasko test, in the section where there are recomendations for supplements, for example if b12 is indicated does she tell you which form to take. (I would assume so)?? I'm really not good at all this guessing...I like to have answers!!!
post #12 of 31
Yes, the whole point of the Yasko test is to give you very specific supps recommendations, so that you don't have to guess. And if you see "negatives" adding a supp, you can be more sure you're adding the right thing, and just push through. That's been great for me, and so far it's never been wrong - if we push through, we get benefits once the initial adjustment period is over.
post #13 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
No, that's probably minimum. Ignore the amount in the multis, very little of that will get absorbed.
l.
Subbing hoping to learn more quick question mamafish are you saying B12 isn't really absorbed in multis or multis aren't absorbed well in general?
post #14 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
Yes, the whole point of the Yasko test is to give you very specific supps recommendations, so that you don't have to guess. And if you see "negatives" adding a supp, you can be more sure you're adding the right thing, and just push through. That's been great for me, and so far it's never been wrong - if we push through, we get benefits once the initial adjustment period is over.
I think I may be having a reaction to either the new multis or the b12. I have had a headache for 2 days straight....I don't usually get headaches and when I do they pass within a day at most....Wonder if this could be a "negative" to the b12 increase?? I will push through and see...maybe unrelated for all I know??

How do you know when is the right time to up a dosage....Obviously if there is a negative reaction you wait until it's past, but if there doesn't seem to be any negatives then how quickly can you increase??

mom61508 - I believe that the b12 form in most multi's is not generally well absorbed. I think that is the case for many forms of the vitamins in many multis. They generally don't contain the most bioavaliable forms.
post #15 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnica View Post
I think I may be having a reaction to either the new multis or the b12. I have had a headache for 2 days straight....I don't usually get headaches and when I do they pass within a day at most....Wonder if this could be a "negative" to the b12 increase?? I will push through and see...maybe unrelated for all I know??

How do you know when is the right time to up a dosage....Obviously if there is a negative reaction you wait until it's past, but if there doesn't seem to be any negatives then how quickly can you increase??

mom61508 - I believe that the b12 form in most multi's is not generally well absorbed. I think that is the case for many forms of the vitamins in many multis. They generally don't contain the most bioavaliable forms.
Well I can't help you with your questions but when I get a headache form something new I've started I take a big shot of SA and It honestly helps. Have you tried taking some C?? Thanks for clarifying on the Multi but thornes kids multi is more bioavailable no?
post #16 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom61508 View Post
Well I can't help you with your questions but when I get a headache form something new I've started I take a big shot of SA and It honestly helps. Have you tried taking some C?? Thanks for clarifying on the Multi but thornes kids multi is more bioavailable no?
I take c anyway, but Ill try a bigger dose and see if that helps...still have the stupid headache today.

yes I think many of the forms of the vitamins are more bioavaliable in thorne products than others
post #17 of 31
That sounds like reaction, Marnica - I'd back off the B12 dose some and the new multi and increase it slowly after you're no longer affected. Have you been taking mthf folate previously? It can cause plenty of reaction if it's something you need, and you haven't taken it (or taken it in large doses) before.

B12 is particularly complicated to get absorbed in the digestive tract - it requires good stomach acid, the presence of a transport called intrinsic factor, etc. So sublingual shortcuts a lot of those issues and gets the B12 directly into the bloodstream. Most multis don't have very much B12, and it isn't well absorbed, so I don't tend to "count" it when figuring out how much vitamin B people are getting.
post #18 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
That sounds like reaction, Marnica - I'd back off the B12 dose some and the new multi and increase it slowly after you're no longer affected. Have you been taking mthf folate previously? It can cause plenty of reaction if it's something you need, and you haven't taken it (or taken it in large doses) before.

B12 is particularly complicated to get absorbed in the digestive tract - it requires good stomach acid, the presence of a transport called intrinsic factor, etc. So sublingual shortcuts a lot of those issues and gets the B12 directly into the bloodstream. Most multis don't have very much B12, and it isn't well absorbed, so I don't tend to "count" it when figuring out how much vitamin B people are getting.
Headache is a teeny bit better today bit still there. I will back off of the thornes and only take 1 b-12 lozenge for a while.

No prior to getting the thorne supps I have never taken 5mthf folate before. I'm guessing I need it! (going back to DS's severe tongue tie) I'll increase slowly. Got the thorne kids multi yesterday. I have DS 3 of the 6 this morning and I have backed off the methly b12 to 1 lozenge just until I see how he does on the multis. If there is no disceranle reaction in him within a week, I would think it would be ok to add in another b12 lozenge and then see from there?? God I can't wait until I pay off my card and can do the yasko tests!!
post #19 of 31
Thread Starter 
mamafish9 -
I still have a headache. It's been over a week. Does this mean that I should not be doing the thorne multis??? (which also make me nauseous about an hours after i take them for 10 min or so, then it passes) or not doing the methyl b-12? or either? I guess I'm not sure of the best approach at this point.

If I'm having a reaction does this mean I NEED something in particular and this is a detox type of reaction, or that I have a problem with too many methyl groups? If it's too many methyl groups than is it something that passes as the pathways start working better, or does this mean I should be switching to forms?

As for DS....he is slightly more whiny and seems to be having more mini tantrums than usual. He has been taking 4 of the 6 thorne multis and 1 mg of the methyl b-12. Any suggestions?
post #20 of 31
I'd guess you both really need the folate, but you've caused a detox reaction by the amount you're taking (that prenatal has a LOT). I'd keep the B12 and move your son back to 1 of the Thorne, and see if it gets better - if so, that's a good clue it's not the methyl groups. Same for you - I think the prenatal full dose is 3? Try taking 1, or 1/2 x2/day, and see if you feel better. The deal is that if you really need the folate, and your methylation has been seriously clogged because you don't have it, then when you start to get things moving, there's lots of old garbage to clear out. That makes you not feel great! Taking it slow with adding the new vites should decrease the downsides.
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