How do I adress this?

[leighi123]

Ds was given a time out, which is something I dont agree with.

He goes to a homeschoo/preschool home care type thing fo a couple hours a day, 1-4 days a week while I teach sewing lessons. The woman who runs it is really great, they dont do TV, its all educational activites, crafts, play, books and outdoor time. Ds is excited to go there and never wants to come home when I collect him!
She sends him home with a report of everything he has done durring the day (what he eats, when he goes potty, what they played/read, etc)

Today when we got home we went swimming and ds told me:
"that guy told me to go to time out"
- then what did you do?
"I sat in a chair for a long time and Miss T told me I could get out"

'that guy' is Miss T's husband who works from home sometimes and is also a very nice guy who is great with the kids.

I asked ds WHY he went to time out and he couldnt tell me. I asked him what he was doing before timeout, and he said "I was being mean" (and wouldnt elaborate)
Then when I again asked him why he went to time out, he said "because the guy told me to"

Time outs are totally against the way I prefer to handle mis-behavior/issues, He has NEVER had a time out before this, had no clue why he was told to go sit in a chair 'for a long time', and the methods I use work great for him! (redirection, asking him WHY he is yelling/grabbing/hitting or whatever, reminding him to 'use your words')

I did talk to Miss T about all this when I was interviewing her, and she told me that she agreed.

So how do I adress this? I have been VERY happy with his care other than this incident, and I trust her with my baby's life, I am just not at all happy that he was put in time out (I know some people dont have an issue with it, but I do!). He is going back tomorow morning and I want to let her know that it was a problem for me. We usually communicate through email so I was thinking of sending her one tonight...

I am so not good with confrontation so Im not sure what excatly to say.

BTW here and here are the ways I use to handle 'issues' with ds, who is for the most part VERY well behaved.

[ASusan]

I would ask your provider for more details.

Children younger than 5 or 6 aren't good at reporting details or remembering things, so it's not surprising that your child cannot recall why he was in timeout or what the circumstances were surrounding the event.

Once you know more details, you can discuss with the provider how to prevent the offending behavior (with you working at home on it and the providers working at daycare).

[poppan]

Agree with PP on asking for more details. I would try to approach it in a "fact-finding" way first and not go in with a negative or angry mindset right off the bat (or at least do a good job of hiding it). I think it will help with the discussion to try to approach it in a neutral way, see what she has to say, find out what the circumstances were, and you can still tell her "you know we discussed handling discipline in XYZ way, I don't think the time out was consistent with that" after you've given her a chance to explain. If you start right in on her she will probably get all defensive and it won't be as productive of a conversation.

[leighi123]

sooo... should I just send her a simple email saying "Levi told me he had a time out today, can you tell me what happened?" and see what she says?


I am SURE that if Levi said he had a time out, then he did.

One of the reasons I am uncomfortable with time out is because he doesnt connect negative behavior = time out, he see's them as two seperate things, so timeout as 'punishment' doesnt teach him anything or prevent it from happening again, whereas simply talking to him about it and then redirecting TEACHES him that that behavior is not ok and why.

[One_Girl]

I think that e-mail sounds good. Did you look at the providers discipline plan at all? In our state the daycare is required to post it and they go off of that not just off of what they say in the interview. She may agree with you mostly on time-out but still think it is fine to use for ongoing issues or for times when a child has needed to be redirected several times in one day. I think you should try to clarify that with her also because believing that time-out isn't the most effective way and believing that time-out should never be used because it isn't effective are very different things. It is not easy to find a daycare that doesn't use any time-out, especially as kids get older, so if this has been a good place you may need to take that into consideration before deciding if this is a deal breaker.

[CarrieMF]

I think the email is fine. It is possible that Miss T didn't know her dh put him in a time out. I'm not sure how old your son is, but for alot of kids under 5 "a long time" could be 1 minute.

[zinemama]

Well, I don't think time-outs are bad at all. And especially in a group setting, with one or two adults in charge of a bunch of kids, I think they're a gentle and safe way to temporarily remove someone from the group who is "being mean" (or whatever it is). But I do think it's reasonable to ask what he had a time-out for. In fact, given that you say she sends him home with a report every day, I'm surprised she didn't mention it. I would just casually ask, though, not go to the trouble of composing an email.

My feeling is, if you really like this woman and the type of care she provides, I'd respect her use of this (very mild, imo) disciplinary strategy.

[madskye]

Does she know that she is not expected to use time out with your son?

Do you think your son doesn't connect the time out with the mean behavior?

I would just ask her what happened. If you don't want her to do time outs, try to work with her to use a method you approve of.

I totally understand why people don't like time outs, but I also understand why they would be used, especially in a group situation.

[poppan]

JMHO. I would not personally handle this over email. I would plan to stay for ten minutes longer than usual tomorrow morning and ask in person for details. I just think so much can be missed in an email and things can be read the wrong way (both directions). If it was very important to me, I would address in person.

[Tigerchild]

Do you have a copy of the daycare policy and/or handbook (I've yet to meet a home provider who didn't have one or the other, but maybe that's just my state!)?

What does it say the policy is, in regards to discipline?

[leighi123]

Just to clairfy, its not an actual daycare, just a family who homeschools and cares for my son a few hours a week, and one other child a few full days a week. She has 2 kids, one is almost 5, the other is 2.5. She does use timeout with them and says my ds is the best behaved kid of the group.

Levi will be 3 next month but is very verbal and is gifted, so he doesnt act like a kid his age even in play.

She did not have a 'handbook' or anything, we did talk about all of our expectations and things for a looong time (in person and over email) before I decided to put Levi in her care (I was super picky!)

[leighi123]

Originally Posted by madskye

Does she know that she is not expected to use time out with your son?

Do you think your son doesn't connect the time out with the mean behavior?

I would just ask her what happened. If you don't want her to do time outs, try to work with her to use a method you approve of.

I totally understand why people don't like time outs, but I also understand why they would be used, especially in a group situation.

Yes, she does know about my 'no time out' thing and I did discuss alternatives if any issues came up.

Yes, I know he doesnt connect the time out with being mean, because that is not at all how I handle dicipline with him, and he could not tell me that the two were connected. He does connect and can clearly explain to me what he did wrong, why it was wrong, what he should do intead, etc, when I 'recap' an issue with him that I have dealt with. So its not that he doesnt understand that that kind of behavior is not acceptable, its just that he doesnt understand why mean = time out, he didnt get what the point of the time out was.

[leighi123]

Originally Posted by zinemama

Well, I don't think time-outs are bad at all. And especially in a group setting, with one or two adults in charge of a bunch of kids, I think they're a gentle and safe way to temporarily remove someone from the group who is "being mean" (or whatever it is). But I do think it's reasonable to ask what he had a time-out for. In fact, given that you say she sends him home with a report every day, I'm surprised she didn't mention it. I would just casually ask, though, not go to the trouble of composing an email.

My feeling is, if you really like this woman and the type of care she provides, I'd respect her use of this (very mild, imo) disciplinary strategy.

I understand that for other families, time outs work. I have no problem with other people using them with their own kids. But for MY son, I know it doesnt work, and it causes other issues (like him telling me to go to time out and "go sit in that chair mommy" several times this afternoon). It doesnt teach him anything!
Redirection with an explination of what he was doing that was wrong would works for him. Same thing with asking him WHY he is doing ____. He usually has a good explination and I can help him choose an alternative (someone took his toy, we can get another one or take turns... etc)

Time out is just not a method I would like to be used on him, and I did discuss this with the provider in advance, and am just not happy that it was used.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by leighi123

Time out is just not a method I would like to be used on him, and I did discuss this with the provider in advance, and am just not happy that it was used.

I would clarify with her what happened because *a long time* could have been 1 minute, as someone else said.

If you reach an impasse with her, then you need to make other arrangements for your son or quit your job.

My advice would be to soften your belief a bit because your son really enjoys being there and it lets you do something you enjoy.

I think it could be difficult for a child to be involved in much of anything away from his parents if the teachers aren't allowed to tell him he needs to sit out for a minute. Just because he doesn't get that the two are connect right now doesn't mean that he is unable to learn that they are connected.

[Tjej]

Most one-year-olds can understand the idea of sitting to relax/calm down/start over (what a time-out is in my mind). So, at almost 3, I really think your son could get it. You could even just tell him, "some people like to help kids figure out better ways to act by sitting for a minute to relax..." But anyway, if you really like this provider and you think that this will be an infrequent "bottom of the barrel" type resource, I think it is something to consider letting go of.

And if you aren't willing to let it go then I guess I doubt that someone who uses it on their own kids and who has used it on your child knowing full-well that you do not like it will not use it again someday. So if it is a deal-breaker then I guess the deal is already broken and you'll just have to look elsewhere.

For addressing it: I think that if you are willing to consider its use, then discussing the situation and why it happened could be useful. If you aren't willing to consider it then I think you just need to find someone else and not bother discussing it.

Tjej

[Marsupialmom]

I agree ask for more details. Let say something got broken he was told to go sit down while they cleaned the mess. The broken item was irrelevant so it didn't make it in the report. This doesn't mean your 3 year old will remember that he broke something or that 1 minute wasn't a really long time.

Sometimes reality doesn't match what the kids say.

There could have been a chain of advents: he was being mean, another child broke something, and he associated being told to sit down as being in trouble.

Maybe MR.T told him to sit down and got Mrs. T to handle it.

[happysmileylady]

Originally Posted by Marsupialmom

I agree ask for more details. Let say something got broken he was told to go sit down while they cleaned the mess. The broken item was irrelevant so it didn't make it in the report. This doesn't mean your 3 year old will remember that he broke something or that 1 minute wasn't a really long time.

Sometimes reality doesn't match what the kids say.

There could have been a chain of advents: he was being mean, another child broke something, and he associated being told to sit down as being in trouble.

Maybe MR.T told him to sit down and got Mrs. T to handle it.

I was thinking something similar, that maybe something got broken or dropped or spilled and they asked him to sit down out of the way while it got cleaned up. Or, that maybe it really was a time out in the truest sense of the word, that he wasn't really in trouble at all but did truely need a moment or two to just relax and chill out for a second. I have two young nephews about that age and have seen them, either together or individually get a little hyper sometimes. And sometimes they really do just need a minute to stop moving and just calm down. Not really about being in trouble, though it could certainly be misinterpreted as that, just about recollecting themselves.

[Girlprof]

Definitely ask for more details. I'm not opposed to time outs, btw. Quite apart from that, I don't think kids *can* report accurately at that age. My first grader told me his entire class had missed recess because a couple of students were naughty. I was very mad about this, but it turned out to be only his interpretation. In fact, they were all loud and they were told they might miss (5 minutes of) recess if they didn't quiet down. They did quiet down and no recess was missed. I'm awfully glad I didn't bust in there all mad at the teacher.

[TiredX2]

Any update OP?

[lab]

Originally Posted by leighi123

Ds was given a time out, which is something I dont agree with.

He goes to a homeschoo/preschool home care type thing fo a couple hours a day, 1-4 days a week while I teach sewing lessons. The woman who runs it is really great, they dont do TV, its all educational activites, crafts, play, books and outdoor time. Ds is excited to go there and never wants to come home when I collect him!
She sends him home with a report of everything he has done durring the day (what he eats, when he goes potty, what they played/read, etc)

Today when we got home we went swimming and ds told me:
"that guy told me to go to time out"
- then what did you do?
"I sat in a chair for a long time and Miss T told me I could get out"

'that guy' is Miss T's husband who works from home sometimes and is also a very nice guy who is great with the kids.

I asked ds WHY he went to time out and he couldnt tell me. I asked him what he was doing before timeout, and he said "I was being mean" (and wouldnt elaborate)
Then when I again asked him why he went to time out, he said "because the guy told me to"


.

It sounds like to me (especially at three years old) that he knows what he did and didn't want to tell you.