Childfree and age segregation

[kmamma]

I was recently at my cousin's wedding and my sister had informed me prior that kids were not allowed. I found it not only strange that kids were not welcome (I never remotely engaged the thought of childfree for my wedding 12 years ago, even before I had kids of my own), but that the invitation didn't even have to state that the party would be childfree. I assume that it's becoming the rule here in Sweden now too. I just moved back home after 11 years of living in the States, where, as most of you know, childfree arrangements are very commonplace.
Next weekend I'm going to another celebration. My dear friend from high school just got married and is having a midsummer party. Kids were welcome, but today she sent me a message saying that unfortunately most parents had arranged for babysitters! So now I'm considering leaving my own kids at home since I imagine it would be boring for them with no other kids around. But I am tempted to bring them to show the other parents (most of whom I've never met) that including my kids at a party is doable, and actually enjoyable.

Anyhow, this breaks my heart. Naturally, like many other parents, I too struggle with parenting, but I don't have that desire to be away from my kids and other kids most of the time.

What is so wrong with mixing ages when celebrating (and in other activities)? I so badly want to live in a society where kids are seen as an integral and natural part of an adult-centered world. Or perhaps even be part of a 'not childfree' revolution. Anyone care to join me?

[mamazee]

As someone with kids, I agree with you that I love having kids at celebrations. But I do remember the me before children, and how I avoided restaurants with children, and loved going to events without children. And most people just getting married don't have children yet, so they might be where I was when I didn't have children. I guess I see both sides. I think it's nicer to allow children, but it's their celebration and they get to do it their way. Sadly, I have had to miss weddings for that reason.

[ledzepplon]

This is probably one of the most frequently revisited debates I see here on MDC. My feeling is this: I absolutely adore children, but I think whomever is throwing the party has a right to chose adults only.

Yes, it can be a PITA to arrange childcare or feel that your precious little ones are not welcome, but it also adds a dimension of pressure to the hosts to arrange special meals, activities, and keep events family friendly.

It's obviously not a personal attack on your kiddos if there is a blanket request that a party be only for adults. Therefore, don't take it personally. Go if you want to, and if not, RSVP "no."

[tarajean56]

Originally Posted by kmamma

What is so wrong with mixing ages when celebrating (and in other activities)? I so badly want to live in a society where kids are seen as an integral and natural part of an adult-centered world. Or perhaps even be part of a 'not childfree' revolution. Anyone care to join me?

I think the point of the post is more about the above quite, rather than the specific situation you have coming up. Even if its not, that what I'm replying to.

I think part of it has to do with the fact that we are trying to raise children in such isolated situations. We feel like all child-rearing responsibilities lie on the mom and dad. This IS overwhelming for most people and most people DO want occasional breaks from that. So when a special event comes up, rather then anticipating an evening of chasing their kids around and keeping them entertained all by themselves, people get sitters. I think that if we took on the saying "it takes a village" more, we might have an easier time enjoying ourselves with our children present, knowing that all adults and older children were also looking out for them, feeding them, playing with them, etc.

For example, we have a small group at church that has 10 kids under 4 in it (14 adults or so). We meet every week at my friend's house, and its a little crazy, but I love it. There are TONS of grownups who will get my kids a drink of water, play with them, snuggle them to sleep at the end of the night, etc. I can have my kids there and enjoy myself because everyone is loving on each others kids and keeping them safe, fed and watered. I do the same with my friend's kids. It works out well, and I always think, "this is more how raising kids should work!"

[Parker'smommy]

Maybe the parents invited to this celebration just want to the opportunity to make this their "date night" with their spouse? My kids are 5 and 8 and they probably would much rather stay home and hang with the cool babysitter I arranged and watch movies and eat junk food than come to an evening party of one of my friends, ya know? And I would totally WELCOME the opportunity to do just that. I bring my kids to plenty of family celebrations, parties, and get togethers. We spend PLENTY of time together. A night once or twice a month with just my husband is something I really enjoy.

Now, if I had a young nursling, I would definitely be feeling like I want to bring him/her along and would only accept invitations where babe was welcome. It's just how it goes and I wouldn't be upset at the host/hostess about it either. We go to a yearly Oktoberfest party that is adults only every year. I won't be going this year because I will have a newborn. It's an adult party with lots of beer drinking and adult conversation. I wouldn't want to bring my children to this party, even if they were invited, ya know? So, I will sit out this year. And probably get a sitter the next year when baby is older and can go a few hours without momma.

[Norasmomma]

Where I live this isn't commonplace(and it is the western US), in fact any party that I'd be invited to would have kids. My IL's are all about family and so are most of my friends, that said I am of the camp that the person throwing the party should get to decide if kids are invited.

Right now I'd LOVE to go to a party w/out kids, but I'm on kiddo burnout. Luckily tomorrow is our anniversary and it's date night

[sweetpeppers]

I am always very surprised to hear about kid-free weddings. To me, weddings are a family affair, and excluding the children just seems wrong. Weddings are welcoming a new member to a family, even if it's not your family. To me, this no-kids idea is connecting with the ideal of have "the perfect wedding," and as we all know, children are not perfect (kind of like adults). I don't think all places are necessarily good places to bring children, but if I was invited to a wedding where my son was not welcome, I wouldn't go. Obviously they have the right to exclude children since it's their celebration; it's just lame.

[berry987]

I don't see what the big deal is with leaving kids at home now and then. Like a PP said, most of us don't have a "village" raising our kids and when we go to a party we barely get to relax or eat because we are dealing with kids the whole time. I have three sons, aged 5, 3 and 1 and while I love and adore them, I am just fine going to an adults only party or wedding now and again. The 3 and 1 year old can barely sit still for more than a few minutes, so DH or I would end up chasing them around the whole time. That doesn't mean we never expose our kids to weddings or parties, but I like the occasional kid-free event....my DH and I can really relax and chat with other adults.

My sister is getting married in September and is having a kid-free wedding. There are 13 nieces and nephews, all under age 7. On top of that, all of her friends have small kids so it would add up to probably over 30 young children...at a small wedding. All my siblings agree that it would be totally crazy to have all the kids there. Very few of us would get to listen to the ceremony or participate in the wedding because there are just so many little ones. Instead, she is having a big barbeque the night before that the kids are coming to.

[TulsiLeaf]

My husband and I got married 2 years ago and we have a nearly 5 year old. We wanted a child free wedding, but we couldn't find anyone to watch our daughter and we got pressure from family to invite the kids. It was MY wedding and I didn't want to have to watch my daughter. I wanted to have fun. So luckily we only had 2 kids there.

I feel this way. It isn't your wedding, what you want has no merit. If the bride wants a child free wedding, it's her decision and more than likely her pocket book. If you want to go, check the yes button, but if you would rather spend the night with your kids, check the no box. Easy peasy.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by kmamma

Naturally, like many other parents, I too struggle with parenting, but I don't have that desire to be away from my kids and other kids most of the time.

Well, they don't necessarily either. They're just spending time without their kids once in a while for a formal celebration. I think the idea that people who enjoy child-free events want to be away from their kids all the time is coloring your perception.

We often use these events as date nights for us. I believe nurturing my adult relationship with my partner is just as important as my relationship with my children. We plan to have time together with just us, and if we can do that by going to an event someone else planned - and paid for - then that works out great for us! We don't have to plan another time to get a sitter and then plan something to do.

[happysmileylady]

Naturally, like many other parents, I too struggle with parenting, but I don't have that desire to be away from my kids and other kids most of the time.

I don't think that having a few celebrations minus the kids equals a desire to be away from the kids most of the time. Afterall, celebrations are an occasional thing.

And some celebrations are simply not kid appropriate. My neighbors across the street reguarlly have large get togethers in the summer. They call all their family and friends and bbq and create a theme with lots of decorations, etc etc. They do this probably once or twice a month. None of their guests get sitters, everyone brings their kids. The problem with this is that the amount of drinking, hot tubbing and lateness of the parties are simply not kid friendly. DH and I went to one a few years ago and left feeling like we were the oldest two at the party because they party like 22 yr old college students in a frat house. Now provided you handle it in a mature manner-designated drivers, cabs or people staying the night, no one puking in the corners or anything like that, I don't have a problem with anyone enjoying that kind of party.

But when you do it with kids around-not cool. Kids don't need to be exposed to that sort of behavior, and when you are behaving like that, it's awfully hard to ensure that the younger children are being supervised appropriately.

[Alyantavid]

I've never taken my kids to a wedding. Mostly because most of the weddings we go to involve a certain amount of drinking and I don't think my kids need to be around random drunk people. And they are typically at places that aren't exactly kid friendly and I (and them) don't want to spend the entire time keeping them out of the fountain or whatever.

I've never understood why people get offended when they're invited to an event where kids aren't allowed. It's completely up to the people throwing the party and probably has nothing to do with you or you in children in particular.

[new2this]

I never understood the issue that many have with child free events. Some events are simply not ideal for kids no matter how well behaved one thinks their child is. Or the environment is simply not appropriate for kids. Its not just weddings either, certain movies, event meetings ect. I also don't think that when people want a child free event that it means they can't stand to be with their kids. Adult time is much needed and sometimes it really is out of the respect for others as well.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by kmamma

Anyhow, this breaks my heart. Naturally, like many other parents, I too struggle with parenting, but I don't have that desire to be away from my kids and other kids most of the time.

What is so wrong with mixing ages when celebrating (and in other activities)? I so badly want to live in a society where kids are seen as an integral and natural part of an adult-centered world. Or perhaps even be part of a 'not childfree' revolution. Anyone care to join me?

I actually personally believe it's healthier that at some times there be an "adult sphere" and a "family sphere" and even a "child sphere."

Part of the excitement and ritual of growing up is being able to achieve social milestones (old enough to sit at the adults' table, old enough to go the big concert/premiere). Part of the fun of being grown up, too, is having a long conversation without having to cope with the 5 year old interjections. And part of the fun of being young is having a birthday party that's all about kids and not about entertaining the adults.

Not that I think there shouldn't also be events that are for everyone and maybe that's what you're getting at...in which case I agree there should be a variety. But no, I don't think society gains ONLY when everyone is included in everything.

[Drummer's Wife]

I don't think there is anything wrong with making weddings or other celebrations family events where everyone attends - even small children - most events we've been to are child-friendly, and if we had had a regular wedding instead of going to Hawaii, we would have certainly allowed children. But, I actually prefer to go places such as weddings without my kids, because I can have more fun and relax and drink and visit without taking care of my LO's (there are four of them, so even with DH there, it can be challenging at non-kid friendly places - such as weddings b/c they don't have toys or places for the kids to run and be wild).

[MammaG]

I think the nature of the event will dictate whether or not it's a kid-friendly one. I love kids, I was a nanny when I got married. I debated having a daytime kid-friendly wedding, but DH and I both wanted an all-out black-tie cocktail party (and the wedding service was nearly 2 hours long). Our venue was an only-over-21 one, an art museum policy apparently. But it would have been a totally different thing with kids involved (or even under-21s). We loved it and I think our guests loved it.

Now, I think that where we are in our lives, with three littles and one of them a constantly-nursing 7-month-old, we'd probably simply turn down an invitation like the one to our wedding and celebrate with the couple later with our whole family (maybe invite them hiking with us or on a picnic or for a day at the beach or something). There are times and seasons for everything, you know? I love where we are now and I don't feel I need to overly push the relationships I have with my more kid-free friends...I make sure I stay in touch and will look forward to partying with them again when my kids are older.

[Triciabn]

I had a child free wedding. at the time I just saw other peoples kids as little brats...Ill behaved, noisy and obnoxious. I did permit nursing babies and went so far as to prepare a quiet room if a mother needed to nurse or rock a baby. But kids I didn't want there. Two families brought kids...and as I predicted those kids were annoying. They were interruptive and irritating.
I think many parents want their children to be accepted by adults but then raise their kids to think the room Revolves around them in a very child centered way... And that is just not how most social situations work... Or maybe run smoothly. I think it is very much that a few rotten apples spoil it for everyone.
When I was the bride I wouldn't have minded certain kids.... But how can you say,"you and you can come... But you there your child is an ass and not invited"... Talk about socially unacceptable!
Oh and I had an eighteen month old at the time... So kids weren't alien to me.

[baglady]

I think, like PPs have said, it's up to the people throwing the party. Most people around here seem to have kid free weddings. At most wedding facilities you pay per person. I don't think it's fair to ask someone to pay $90-100 per head for each one of your kids.

That said, if people want kids there it's up to them. Most weddings aren't kid friendly. Reception halls and hotels where a bunch of adults are mingling/drinking is just a recipe for a whinny rambunctious kid. They get bored.

It's good to get away for a night every once and a while if you can. You'll miss the kids but it's refreshing on many levels.

[damona]

i went to a wedding this past saturday. one of my oldest and dearest friends. she not only invited me to bring my kids, she downright insisted on it. frankly, it was one of the most nerve-wracking experiences i've had in a long time. i have 4 hyperactive little boys. the older 2 were alright, but they got bored with all the sitting and waiting and all the speeches and so on, so they got wiggly and whiny. the younger 2 were all over the place. i practically had to sit on my youngest at one point during the ceremony. they talked incessantly, kept trying to wander away, etc. i was a complete wreck by the time we went into the hall for dinner. and the hall itself... oh, horrors! had a stone floor. and there were about 5 zillion glasses and candles and other lovely, delicate, breakable things. also, she had an open bar, so lots of people were drinking lots of things, and leaving the glasses wherever, so i was constantly afraid that i would find one of my kids finishing off someones' scotch or something. i barely ate half my dinner, didn't get a chance to eat the cake, missed the cake cutting completely because someone had to potty... and we left just after the bride and groom had their first dances.

after that experience, i am perfectly okay with child-free weddings!

[lilyka]

I am all about ditching the kids for some child free time and I do it regularly without guilt. heckyeah. pass me a beer and watch me not have to watch anyone, answer any questions, wipe any butts etc...wooohooooo.

however

a childfree wedding just seems odd to me on some level. but in light of bridezillas and what weddings have become (me-focused, perfectly staged events rather than holy rites and sacrements and a family celebration afterwards....) it makes perfect sense. Not to mention the last few weddings I went to forced you to sit through slide shows and staged shows of affection from the parent (all stuff better saved for the reception if you ask me...ya know, so you can go get soething to drink and ignore it) that it went on for what felt like forever. then they dismissed us one row at a time. rather than do a recpetion line (that one could choose to skip) they went and diosmissed each person one at a time. kids in the crowd would have been misreable. I was....even I was antsy and irritated and wanted to scream and bolt. this seems to be becoming standard stuff though. I don't know that I could in good conscience attend a wedding that intentionally excluded kids. especially my kids. It seems so much to be missing the point. and you expect it to be hyper focused on how great and inlove the couple is (just get married already and save the extra stuff for the reception.) but I don't get invited to many weddings these days so it really doesn't matter. (almost all my friends are already married but don't have kids old enough to be getting married yet and I don't really have family. Its not because people don't like me )

as for the party, well the host tried. can't fault her and yeah your kids are not going have nearly as good a time without the other kids as they would have. Honestly in your position I would get a sitter. What you are most likely to show others is how annoying children can be to their parents when they are bored out of their minds. and you will spend most of the party entertaining your children yourself (or at least I would, if I take my kids to a party like that I would only be able to enjoy it if there were other kids for them to run around and make mischief with. they would be painfully bored if it were just them.) So it is unfortunate. I can understand why people ditched the kids though. it sounds like a fun party and a lot more fun if they don't have to chase kids.