Disappointed in Bradley Instructor - Is this Typical?

[Cassaba]

Hi Ladies,

DH and I started Bradley classes recently. I was almost in tears during last night's class. DH and I are choosing a hospital birth with a certified nurse midwife and doula for support. We want to have a natural birth with no unnecessary interventions.

During class, the instructor talked about the risks of ultrasound. My midwife is suggesting weekly ultrasounds for a period of time to monitor my cervical length since I've had surgery on my cervix. I don't want that many ultrasounds, but after a lot of consideration, I had decided to follow her recommendation. The Bradley instructor did not mention any benefits of ultrasound or when they might be important. Although when I asked about cervical length measurements she said that might be an appropriate use of ultrasound, I still left feeling like a bad mother who is causing harm to my unborn baby.

Also, she never says anything positive about hospital births. I do not feel supported in my decision. I just feel like a total failure already and feel like there is no hope of having an unmedicated, intervention-free birth in the hospital.

Is this the typical approach of Bradley instructors? I was so excited about taking these classes, but I don't know how good it is for my psyche to be feeling this way as a result.

Thanks for listening!

[MaerynPearl]

During class, the instructor talked about the risks of ultrasound.

What risks did she name and what sources did she cite?

There's been no proof that they are unsafe (same as no proof that they are safe.) Its not something that should be avoided at all costs, there are many many many circumstances where ultrasound is the best choice, even with any possible risk that is theorized from them. Especially your circumstances. You are doing the right thing keeping an eye on your cervical length, since that can cause some serious problems.

It sounds purely like she was pushing her personal opinions on you and not in a very nice way. I would hope this is not normal for an instructor.

[WaitingForKiddos]

I don't know if it happened everywhere but at some point the Bradley org. forced CBE's to have certain rates of unmedicalized births...like x% of their students couldn't have an epi or they'd loose their Bradley certification. Because of this many CBEs left being 'Bradley' and instead just offer lots of Bradley info in their classes. I've heard that some of the remaining Bradley CBEs feel like they must have a very anti hospital vibe in order to keep classes fulfilling the %s needed for unmedicated births.

Our instructor was Bradley trained but isn't a 'Bradley instructor'. Her class wasn't at all against hospital birth. As my wonderful MW puts it, ' sometimes a mom needs what a hospital has, so we go to the hospital!'. No failure, just a change of plans based on a situation at hand.

Fwiw, there's no accurate study, or at least I've never seen it, that shows u/s are harmful. If someone wants to argue the dangers of scans then they are met with my accounts of babies who are dead or mamas that could have died because a scan wasn't offered/given when it should have been. There are SO many things a scan can
catch that could save a life. Don't question your frequent scans.

[splath]

My Bradley instructer was about the opposite of that. She actually worked part time in a hospital.

[terra-pip]

If you ever read the original (not the revised) Husband Coached Childbirth by Robert Bradley...you will be shocked at the non apologetic sexism that this method was founded on. It completely changed my opinion on this method big time. His whole premise was that women basically can't be trusted to take care of themselves so the men have to step in and make sure what is right for their babies get done. The book comes complete with lovely sexist cartoons. My favorite was the women in heels, with crossed legs eating a box of chocolates while watching "her shows".. and then the husband (in a suit) comes in from work to "whip her" into shape.

I know that the Bradley method is different now, but at the same time, after reading this mans original book I just don't like it at all. And by the way, I had my first at a birthing center, but my 2nd and this one will be born at a hospital. I had a very positive natural birth with my 2nd (with an OB attending no less) and feel extremely comfortable having a natural birth at the hospital (with a MW) this time too. Don't let anyone make you feel like a failure for choosing a hospital birth.

And although I don't really like to have a lot of USs..I agree to the routine one to determine sex and check everything. I had one with my first and one with my second until he was late and then i had maybe two more after my EDD. I've had two this time...the routine one and one to check when I measured small. I can think of a ton of other things that are potentially more harmful to a baby than USs to be honest. For me, USs fall into that realm of choice, and you should expect to be supported in your choices.

[chandasz]

Oh wow! I'm super saddened by this thread.

I am a Bradley Instructor and would like to clear up a couple things.

1. I am so terribly sorry that your teacher is making you feel this way, Cassaba. That is not right at all. Please talk to them privately as I'm sure that this is not their intent (I would hope)

2. Waiting for Kiddos-- this isn't true at all. We are not "required" to do this in any way

3. Terra-pip-- you are totally right about the original book-- and we must remember that the book was written a LONG time ago but there are new editions out. There are many offensive things written into many of the older childbirth books of all types. The teachers do not teach from that book. It is not about whipping women into shape-- it's about being her partner and helping her run a marathon.

4. I am a strong feminist who teaches Bradley. I teach Bradley because it teaches what we should know but we don't because we've medicalized birth to a point that we don't witness it or know anything about it. I teach what happens inside your own body so that you can work with your own body without fear. I teach partners this too (be they husbands, boyfriends, dads, moms, doulas, friends, sisters, girlfriends, etc.) so that THEY aren't afraid. I teach moms how to make their OWN choices in an informed way.

Women should birth where they feel safe be that in a hospital or their home. They should be able to find caregivers who they trust. They should be aware that none of these interventions has been proven safe.

The truth about ultrasound is that we don't know what harm it may cause. There are many studies that do show change on a cellular level but we don't know what this means for us or our children or our children's children. We do know that ultrasound can often help you discover the sex of the baby (but interpretation can be wrong sometimes), we do know that ultrasound can help determine placenta placement, potential problems with the fetus, etc. We also know that ultrasound is often used for determining macrosomia (large baby) although this is very innacurate and ACOG itself acknowledges this innacuracy. In this case- this can cause pressure for elective induction.

We do know that the FDA has never approved ultrasound. This techology was grandfathered in before this oversight was begun.

I have had students opt for ultrasounds when they felt that the benefits outweighed the risks. I have had other students limit their ultrasound exposure. I don't judge them in either case. As a Bradley teacher-- I support their informed choices. Their choices that are right for THEM.

If your Bradley teacher is making you feel like you should be making choices that are right for her-- please find another teacher.

Hey-- there are good and bad of everthing out there-- right?

PM me if you want to talk about this more Cassaba. I can help you find another teacher or even help you talk to your teacher, if you like. I will always maintain your confidentiality.

I am SO sorry you are not feeling supported.

[terra-pip]

Originally Posted by chandasz

Oh wow! I'm super saddened by this thread.

I am a Bradley Instructor and would like to clear up a couple things.

1. I am so terribly sorry that your teacher is making you feel this way, Cassaba. That is not right at all. Please talk to them privately as I'm sure that this is not their intent (I would hope)

2. Waiting for Kiddos-- this isn't true at all. We are not "required" to do this in any way

3. Terra-pip-- you are totally right about the original book-- and we must remember that the book was written a LONG time ago but there are new editions out. There are many offensive things written into many of the older childbirth books of all types. The teachers do not teach from that book. It is not about whipping women into shape-- it's about being her partner and helping her run a marathon.

4. I am a strong feminist who teaches Bradley. I teach Bradley because it teaches what we should know but we don't because we've medicalized birth to a point that we don't witness it or know anything about it. I teach what happens inside your own body so that you can work with your own body without fear. I teach partners this too (be they husbands, boyfriends, dads, moms, doulas, friends, sisters, girlfriends, etc.) so that THEY aren't afraid. I teach moms how to make their OWN choices in an informed way.

Women should birth where they feel safe be that in a hospital or their home. They should be able to find caregivers who they trust. They should be aware that none of these interventions has been proven safe.

The truth about ultrasound is that we don't know what harm it may cause. There are many studies that do show change on a cellular level but we don't know what this means for us or our children or our children's children. We do know that ultrasound can often help you discover the sex of the baby (but interpretation can be wrong sometimes), we do know that ultrasound can help determine placenta placement, potential problems with the fetus, etc. We also know that ultrasound is often used for determining macrosomia (large baby) although this is very innacurate and ACOG itself acknowledges this innacuracy. In this case- this can cause pressure for elective induction.

We do know that the FDA has never approved ultrasound. This techology was grandfathered in before this oversight was begun.

I have had students opt for ultrasounds when they felt that the benefits outweighed the risks. I have had other students limit their ultrasound exposure. I don't judge them in either case. As a Bradley teacher-- I support their informed choices. Their choices that are right for THEM.

If your Bradley teacher is making you feel like you should be making choices that are right for her-- please find another teacher.

Hey-- there are good and bad of everthing out there-- right?

PM me if you want to talk about this more Cassaba. I can help you find another teacher or even help you talk to your teacher, if you like. I will always maintain your confidentiality.

I am SO sorry you are not feeling supported.

I agree with all of this...I do. Although I have never been big on "methods" other than what feels right for me...education of some type is important for first time mothers especially. I had a birthing class with my first pregnancy...but I didn't really use any particular method. You're right that the book was a long time ago and I credit Bradley for bringing fathers back in the labor room....just for me personally the book left a very bad taste in my mouth that I don't think I could easily forget. I know that's not what is taught now...

[Lucy&Jude'sMama]

My boyfriend and I went to one bradley class and then never went again. Due to the instructor being very anti-hospital birth which we were planning at the time. It just made us uncomfortable so we never went back.

I think it depends on the instructor. I ended up having an all natural completely drug and IV free birth in a hospital so it can be done! I never took another birth class after that one, but I did watch a lot of natural birth videos on youtube and read tons of birth stories.

[Galatea]

I would like to add a different perspective.

People who do any sort of education surrounding AP or NFL topics (childbirth, breastfeeding, babywearing, cloth diapering, whatever) see a lot of women who want a natural birth (or to breastfeed or whatever.) Yet simply the choice to give birth in a hospital reduces their odds of having that natural birth or easy breastfeeding experience. (I am not saying that being in a hospital definitely means that you will have a "bad" birth - just that it increases the chances b/c you are going to be fighting an uphill battle against hospital policy. 80% of births are actively managed - that means monitoring, pitocin, etc.) So though I wasn't in your class and didn't hear the teacher, it might be that she is not saying that you are a bad mom for choosing a hospital birth - she just wants people to really understand the potential ramifications of that decision.

I do cloth diaper orientations (not saying this to advertise but to give my real-life experience) and most of my clients are pg with their first. Usually they get comfortable and start asking about other topics like childbirth, circumcision, breastfeeding, etc. They ask me where I had my kids (hospital with midwives, home with midwives) and then they tell me that they are birthing in a hospital "but [their] doctor is really nice and supportive." I try to control myself and usually say something like, "Doctors can be plenty nice, but this doesn't determine their birth philosophy." I would say 2 times out of 3, they come back with a dissatisfying labor story, and they say something like, "I didn't think it would happen to me." This makes me sad and frustrated for them. So maybe some of my clients are out there, thinking that I was pushy and made them feel bad for choosing a hospital birth. I try very hard not to make them feel bad, but I see a lot of pg women before and after their labors and it is hard to be silent when simply the choice to be in a hospital with an OB is the single biggest obstacle to a natural birth.

[cchrissyy]

ugh. every instructer is an individual, and thankfully mine wasn't like that.

[Cassaba]

"I would seriously recommend a doula to help you understand and negotiate your options, which sort of negates the point of the Bradley method."

Galatea, I am wondering what you mean by this? I will be birthing in a hospital under the care of a Certified Nurse Midwife. I also plan to have a doula and DH with me. So are you saying I don't need Bradley classes??

[Galatea]

Originally Posted by Cassaba

"I would seriously recommend a doula to help you understand and negotiate your options, which sort of negates the point of the Bradley method."

Galatea, I am wondering what you mean by this? I will be birthing in a hospital under the care of a Certified Nurse Midwife. I also plan to have a doula and DH with me. So are you saying I don't need Bradley classes??

No, but the point of traditional Bradley is husband-coached. Not that you cannot do both - and I don't know you or him at all - but just that it is "husband-coached." Don't read anything into it other than that.

[MaerynPearl]

Originally Posted by Galatea

It is totally possible to have that natural hospital birth - but you have to be really outspoken and secure and your partner has to be as well. And if you don't think you or your husband can be like this (which is very normal; many husbands cave at the first suggestion of harm to the baby or pain for the mother,) I would seriously recommend a doula to help you understand and negotiate your options, which sort of negates the point of the Bradley method.

I am a total pushover but had a natural hospital birth with DD and almost-natural with DS (other than the medical induction due to my placental abruption)

[lillymonster]

Originally Posted by Galatea

No, but the point of traditional Bradley is husband-coached. Not that you cannot do both - and I don't know you or him at all - but just that it is "husband-coached." Don't read anything into it other than that.

My doula is also a Bradley instructor. I am confused by the statement too, do you mean there is a conflict?

[Galatea]

Originally Posted by lillymonster

My doula is also a Bradley instructor. I am confused by the statement too, do you mean there is a conflict?

No, and I removed the whole statement so I don't have to be picked apart all night long!!!!!!!!

[lillymonster]

Originally Posted by Galatea

No, and I removed the whole statement so I don't have to be picked apart all night long!!!!!!!!

I am not trying to pick you apart - I just didn't understand. I haven't pick any "method" yet but probably won't do Bradley, not sure if I will do any at all. I haven't met with my doula yet, I am not sure exactly what they do during labor, but since I will be VBAC in a hospital, I thought I would probably need one. My first birth I took no classes and didn't use a doula and had a section so this is all new to me .

Sorry for going off-post.

[philomom]

We did the Bradley method and our teacher was awesome. We did deliver in the hospital with a CNM. Very natural and no interventions. I was back home in bed within 12-14 hours both times.

I threw out the phrase "husband-coached" because I detest coaching. Instead, I focused on my hubby being my primary support person. He was so amazing!

[lunarlady]

I was actually surprised by your post because my Bradley class (given by a Bradley instructor) was wonderful, very balanced, and very supportive. I never felt judged or pressured in any way by my instructor. From my experience, there were four main focuses to our class: Having a healthy pregnancy (nutrition, exercises, etc.), what to expect during labor (stages of labor), common interventions/medications/newborn treatments (both hospital and out of hospital, as well as post natal care), and coaching/coping stratagies during labor (what do you want DP doing while you are laboring? What calms you? How will you deal with pain?).

For what it is worth, there were 8 couples in my class, and I was the only homebirthing mama. All the other couples were planning a natural birth at the hospital. Although I was homebirthing, the instructor and her DH did a wonderful job discussing how you and your partner can work together to deal with common issues at the hospital, like fetal monitoring and whatnot. They reccomended a doula as a point person to deal with hospital staff so that DP is free to focus 100% on you. (You can reverse this role if you are more comfortable, and have doula 100% on you with DH working with hospital staff).

All controversial issues, like testing during pregnanacy, pain releif during labor, circumcision of male babies, immunizations, etc, were all delt with in a very balanced way. Meaning the positives and negatives were presented, and we were left to make our own decisions. We also learned about c-sections, and the different things that should lead to c-section, as well as when it is okay to wait or refuse a c-section. Lots of important information!

I don't mind the term "husband-coached" because labor is hard! And like any hard activity, it is good to have someone (or more) in your corner to coach and support you in your efforts. Having a job (which was mainly to support me verbally and fetch things) during labor made my DH feel like he really was a part of our birthing process. I trusted him when he said things like "you're progressing so quickly! You're doing a great job helping our baby into the world!" because I knew he went to all the same classes I did and knew what he was talking about. It also was important to me to know that even if I was going crazy (which I did at one point during labor) I could trust that my DH knew all my desires for labor and post delivery care inside and out because he had worked on it for hours with me as a part of our class. So even though I might become a lunitic, there was someone calm(er) and rational that could make the right decisions for me.

I so sorry you had such a negitive first impression of your class. I would suggest approaching the instructor privately and talking about it. If they are really there to push their views, I would try to find a different Bradley class. Good luck!

[russsk]

My Bradley instructor was very nice and very knowledgeable, but I also got that anti-hospital vibe. I decided on a hospital birth with a CNM rather than go to the birth center, which was too far for my comfort. The other couple in my class (there was only two of us) used the birth center. Throughout the course the instructor would make comments to me, like, You will need an IV or at least a Heplock (I didn't), You won't be able to eat (I did), You will have to deal with the doctor at some point (I didn't), students will come and go to observe you (they didn't), etc.

The class was good for my husband, because it prepared him on what to expect in terms of labor and birth. But for me, I always left questioning if I had made the right decision. It created fear in me that would not have otherwise been there. In the end, none of that fear turned out to be grounded and I had a lovely, intervention-free hospital birth. My mw napped during labor, I never saw a doctor, I barely remember the nurse, and my husband and doula were great support.

A few classes returned months later for a "reunion," sort of to inspire the current students. I was the only woman there who didn't have either an epidural or a c-section, despite being one of the only to plan a hospital birth.

[Cassaba]

The class was good for my husband, because it prepared him on what to expect in terms of labor and birth. But for me, I always left questioning if I had made the right decision. It created fear in me...

This is exactly how I am feeling right now. I do want to stick it out, because I want the information, I just don't want to leave every class feeling that way (have been to 3 classes so far). This thread is really helping give me confidence and I think I will do better from here on out.