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Questions for the doctor

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
We're about to take our daughter in for her 9 month appointment. So far she is vax free, but I'm still on the fence and doing my research. Below is a fairly length of questions I'm going to give to the doc. I wanted to post them here for a little feedback and for others to use in their research process.

General Vaccine Questions

1)Where are the studies comparing vaccinated to unvaccinated? I’m assuming these exist, primarily when the first vaccines came out. From reading the package inserts, the studies are not based on an unvaccinated control group, they are based on receiving a different vaccine.
2)Where are the studies showing the appropriate age to start vaccines? All I could find was the AAP, CDC and others stating that research had been, but I couldn’t find any sort of study showing that it was better for a 2 month old than it was for a 6 year old (for example).
3)Why aren’t vaccines tailored to the individual like other medications (based on weight, etc.)?
4)Why aren’t titer tests done to prevent any form of overdosing and only administer the minimum number of shots?
5)Where are the long-term studies tracking children who received all vaccines as recommended (as opposed to each individual vaccine)?
6)What studies have been done to prove there is no “vaccine overload”?
7)Why is there no screening mechanism for potential allergens/reactions?
8)Are there any independent studies done on vaccine safety? In other words, not funded by the AAP, CDC or drug companies.
9)What is the long term effect of vaccines triggering partial immune system reactions primarily in the humoral (Th2) immune system rather both the Th2 and Th1 functions? (This may be beyond casual conversation, but I would still be interested in long-term studies that have been done).
10)According to the AAP, “Tests that check for immunity to certain diseases do not work well in young children”. If this is true, then how do they test for efficacy when developing vaccines? (Somewhat related to question 4).
11)Supposedly, there is no proven link between MMR and autism, and the study that was done showing a link was discredited, but what studies have been done to disprove a link to other vaccines, or to receiving all the vaccines as listed on the schedule?
12)(Warning – philosophical question) If vaccines are a boon to society, why is production not mandated and provided for free. If vaccine manufacturers were not shielded from liability, and could not profit from their manufacture, would they continue to produce them?


Hepatitis B – She is neither sexually active nor an IV drug user. I don’t think she would be considered to be in a high risk group. Why would we get this now?

Rotavirus – No longer in recommended timeframe, both vaccines recalled, too risky.

Dtap (Daptacel) – Maybe only 3 doses – 12, 18, 24 months

1)According to the package insert (Page 3 – first paragraph under pertussis), 3 doses provides 84.9% protective efficacy. Knowing that the pertussis vaccine doesn’t necessarily prevent the illness, but rather reduces symptoms and may reduce spreading the illness, why continue with additional doses? When looking at benefit vs. risk, hasn’t the risk been sufficiently reduced?
2)What is the efficacy after 1 or 2 doses?
3)Why has it not been tested for carcinogenic potential?
4)According to the literature I’ve read, most reactions are to the pertussis portion. The DTaP vaccine is supposed to have fewer reactions. If she has a reaction, how is there a way to tell for sure what caused it?

HIB –HibTITER – maybe 1 dose, maybe before school

1)Any risk from additional tetanus/diphtheria proteins, in addition to dtap?
2)Benefit to risk is not good.
3)Doesn’t completely prevent meningitis, just from this particular bacteria.
4)Only protects against serotype b, which diagnosed rarely. Based on MMWR and State of Michigan information (in 2008, MI had 30 cases, only 8 were under five and only 2 of those were serotype b). According to the CDC, most infections are under 5, not true for Michigan – most are over 5 – see annual VPD summary.




Pneumococcal – not likely, maybe later with more strains

1)Similar to HIB vaccine, only protects against specific bacteria, so you are still susceptible to others.
2)Does not prevent ear infections, as is sometimes touted.

IPV – not yet, will probably get later. There is essentially no risk at this point, no travel plans, no reported cases in western hemisphere in many, many years.

Flu – not likely, only possibility will be if they are completely preservative free (primarily Thimerasol free).

MMR – Would consider mumps and measles if offered separately, which allegedly may be in 2011. Possible moral issues with rubella due to link to aborted fetal cells.

Varicella – Possible moral issue, due to aborted fetal cell use.

HEP A – not likely, not in high risk groups listed on CDC VIS. May get later in life, as adverse events appear to be minimal.
post #2 of 11
kudos to you for such an extensive list of questions.

I just ask you what expectations you have from this appointment with your pediatrician?

She will not be able to answer nearly any of these questions without pulling something out of her bottom. The list itself shows that you are hesitating from vaccination with serious thought behind it and are demanding more information (that doesn't exist) in order for you to feel that the benefits proven outweigh risks more accurately measured.

I think you will have a bad experience if you go in there demanding that she answer these questions or force her to admit how little she knows about vaccines.

Instead, I think you could have a very good meeting with you if you state that you have spent a tremendous amount of time researching the topic so that you cold feel well-informed to work with her on the best decisions for your dd. The research has only shown you how much more information you seek and you would like to take some time to consider your findings.
post #3 of 11
You seem to be approaching this very thoughtfully and while I think that's great, I agree that sharing that list of questions with your pedi may not be the best way to go. At least, it wouldn't have been with my pedi. I guess it shows that you have put a lot of thought and effort into this question and you are not making decisions willy-nilly, but honestly, I wouldn't whip that out unless the pedi starts pressuring you a lot and you need to show that you have put a lot of thought into it. Even then, I would consider a firm statement designed to not engage--such as, "I've done a lot of research and this is the decision we have made, we don't make it lightly"--instead. You don't need your pedi's approval to not vax, and I doubt you will be able to change their stance on it. So to me it's better not to engage at all.
post #4 of 11
I guess my biggest question is, why are you bringing these questions in with you? If it is to show the doctor that you have done your research, I wouldn't waste my time or effort. It will only serve to create a hostile relationship between the doctor and your family.

If it is because you are approaching your doctor to get honest feedback on their take of your questions, I think you should bring in your questions. Don't present them in a way that says "I know all these answers", ask for her insight on your concerns. Take notes on the answers, and let us know what she has to say!

Given your list of concerns, it does confuse me a bit that you seem to be leaning towards so many of the vaccines. For instance, Pc has only grown in the number of strains it covers, but they are still like a dog chasing their tail... new strains keep becoming more popular as others are vaccinated for. How many strains would it need to cover before you decide that it is enough?
post #5 of 11
Thread Starter 
The purpose of the questions is to get responses for stuff I can't find good answers for. I get alot of the "just do it" answers with no back up.

So far, the doc has not been pushy at all, but I do want her know that I'm not refusing because I got an email from my cousin's friend's brother.

I don't want to ask the questions at a visit, as there isn't enough time to get a good answer. That being said, she may not even look in to the questions if I give them to her in a letter. She may just discount me as one of those paranoid nut jobs that doesn't follow orders.

@ammiga - the notes for specific vaccines are more my thoughts than hard decisions. Pc for example is not even being considered anytime soon, so I can't say that I would get it if it suddenly covered 2 dozen strains or 10 strains.

Thanks all for the feedback.
post #6 of 11
If you want to seek answers to these questions, you would not find ONE pediatrician who could answer most of them. I wasn't sure if you knew that there are not answers to many of these questions or if you were just being rhetorical.

It is the lack of information out there that forced me to take this research so much more seriously because I couldn't believe the lack of studies and the flimsiness of those that exist.

The more and more I read on these boards over the years, I completely agree that there is, sadly, little to gain in working with a pediatrician on these decisions. Most are really uneducated about vaccines and the diseases and speak from how they are "trained" to deal with people who bring up vaccines, not from a place of science at all.
post #7 of 11
I don't think you can realistically expect a pedi to have the answers to all those questions (if they even take the time to read them in the first place). I have a feeling you will leave your appointment feeling very frustrated. Could you perhaps narrow it down to maybe 1-3 questions that would be most pivotal for you? Are there a couple of those questions whose answers would sway you a bit in one direction or the other? I think you could possibly get an answer or an 'I'll have to get back to you after I look into it' if you just ask a couple questions AND have a fabulous pedi. Beyond that, TBH, I think you are wasting your time, as much as I hate to say it...
post #8 of 11
I'm going to swim against the tide here and suggest that maybe dropping one or two of these questions at your appt wouldn't be a bad idea. I definitely wouldn't read through the whole list; no pedi will want to feel put on the spot with a pop quiz. But the one or two most provocative ones--phrased politely and non-confrontationally--would get them thinking....and let them know that you're thinking!
post #9 of 11
IMO, if you are actually considering a specific vacinnation *at this time* then you should go on with 2-3 well considered questions or concerns. If not, it just doesn't really seem like a fair use of your doctors time to ask all of those questions. Some of those aren't even available at 9 months of age so you can just keep doing your own research them and then discuss them with your pediatrician as they come up.

At shot times I would always know which I was for sure not doing and not bother wasting time discussing those. If I had a specific question that would help me decide on a vacinnation then I would ask the question and my kids' doctor has always been great about discussing my concerns.

Good luck!
post #10 of 11
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the responses. Since the first one we would consider is DTap, I'll focus on that first.
post #11 of 11
I read these posts but I have to ask, why would dtap be a consideration? I think if any of the diseases I'd be concerned about, the pertussis would be the main one. and that is tough but definately not something that can be treated and lessened (beyondvaccination.com)

Why would the others be on your radar, esp the diptheria?

just being nosy
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