3Yr Old Complete Meltdown, How Could I Do This Better?

[weezix]

dd (3) is having "one of those days."

we were having 2 kids over today for a playdate (brothers) so this morning i asked the kids to get dressed and clean their bedroom and then we would go get their friends. DD (4) co-operated nicely - got dressed, cleaned their entire room (the girls share) and even helped with a bit of the livingroom before we left. DD (3) screamed, threw things and didn't help at all.

We were half hour late picking their friends up because of it all. In fact dd (3) wouldn't even put her shoes on when we left so I let her go barefoot.

When we got home, the kids all went to the backyard to play and I asked dd (3) to stay inside and help mommy clean the kitchen floor. I figured since she didn't do her chore (clean her room) then she needed to help me with one of mine.

She completely melted down and refused to do anything. I think 2 peices of paper made it's way to the garbage can and then she started screaching at me everytime I said something.

So...I told her I didn't want to listen to her talk to me like that so she would have to go to her room until she was ready to talk nice (i know time outs aren't popular on these boards but i felt she needed to be in a different room since she couldn't stop making rude noises at me).

40 minutes she screamed her head off...and now we are eating lunch.

I'm sure this could have gone a lot better?? But I just didnt 'know what to do.

[chiefmir]

I hate days like that!!! Been there.

My DD is a bit older (will be 5 in august) but every now and then she wakes up in a HORRIBLE mood. I figure, she is entitled, since that happens to me sometimes too! usually/often it is directly related to not getting enough sleep the night before.

Anyway, I certainly don't think you did anything WRONG in this situation- but sometimes intervening earlier in the day when things seem off has helped us more. For example, once it was clear that she was having one of those days, sometimes we'll play "do over" where Becca (my ODD) gets back into bed and we act-out (sort of in a silly way) starting the entire day all over again- complete with real or pretend 2nd breakfast, etc. Also, sometimes we discuss how she is feeling- "are you feeling so grumpy that you just don't want to do anything besides yell and cry?" and I emphathize with that feeling, because I certainly have it sometimes too. We do a silly little thing (it started as something we did to ME when I was unreasonably difficult and grumpy one day) where she opens up her mouth and I act shocked and horrified to see all the "grumpy" piled up in there, and then pantomime "pulling it out"- all the time making horrified comments about exactly how specifically gross and disgusting her "grumpy" looks (such as "oh-- your grumpy looks like old chunky milk with squished bugs in it.. and it smells like daddy feet!"- may not be everyone's cup of tea, but works for us).

I guess the only other thing I can suggest is just totally changing the situation/environment... a bath? a book and snuggle? sometimes even when I'm totally and very reasonably fed up with Becca's behaivor, it helps if I ask her to take a "calm down" time out with me on the couch (to snuggle and read) before we address the behavior (helps both of us).

hope your day got better....

[ssh]

Wow, it's sounds like your 3 year old wasn't ready to start the day. Did you wake her up? Did she get enough sleep?

First I would have tried to find out why your 3 year old DD felt so bad this morning. We never make our 4.5 year old DD clean up. I ask and then begin doing it myself. She's usually fairly helpful, but wasn't so much at age 3. We don't do punishment, so I wouldn't have made a 3 year old stay inside and tried to get her to work when all the other kids went outside. Of course your DD is going to feel bad and be upset being the only kid inside working while everyone else is having fun. I wouldn't let DD, or any other family member, cry uncomforted. 40 minutes is really long to be that upset.

A really good book is Kids, Parents, and Power Struggles by Mary Kurcinka. Here's a link http://www.amazon.com/Kids-Parents-P...der_0060930438 . I found a cop at our library, inter-library loan is also really useful.

[weezix]

Originally Posted by ssh

Wow, it's sounds like your 3 year old wasn't ready to start the day. Did you wake her up? Did she get enough sleep?

First I would have tried to find out why your 3 year old DD felt so bad this morning. We never make our 4.5 year old DD clean up. I ask and then begin doing it myself. She's usually fairly helpful, but wasn't so much at age 3. We don't do punishment, so I wouldn't have made a 3 year old stay inside and tried to get her to work when all the other kids went outside. Of course your DD is going to feel bad and be upset being the only kid inside working while everyone else is having fun. I wouldn't let DD, or any other family member, cry uncomforted. 40 minutes is really long to be that upset.

My 3 year old doesn't sleep well...which we know is the majority of the problems. I've talked to the doctors...she's even been to the children's hospital for tests...docs are saying it's behavioural.

You mentioned all the things NOT to do...but didn't suggest WHAT to do...hence my post. And I dont MAKE my children clean. I help. I'm there guiding them and that is something that in our house we do. Their bedroom is their responsiblity and it has to be clean because we have a very small house and a lot of children and no place for them to play otherwise. I was asking my daughter to help pick up maybe half a dozen things off the kitchen floor before she went outside. I really don't think that's unreasonable??

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

I don't think there is anything wrong with what you did, actually. Its not our job to prevent them from being angry/frustrated beyond making sure that we haven't overlooked some basic needs. If you kept her awake, didn't feed her breakfast or a snack, didn't provide her medication or whatever, then this would be your responsibility and should have been handled differently. If you had asked your 3 YO to clean the bathroom unassisted, that would be unreasonable and a meltdown would be "your fault". But making reasonable requests of our children and using natural or logical consequences isn't wrong. IMHO. And if they melt down, it is our job to help them learn that this isn't the appropriate response and its OK, to remove either them or myself from the situation as a logical consequence. But then again, I'm pretty far out on the "strict" side of the GD continuum.

[ssh]

Originally Posted by weezix

My 3 year old doesn't sleep well...which we know is the majority of the problems. I've talked to the doctors...she's even been to the children's hospital for tests...docs are saying it's behavioural.

You mentioned all the things NOT to do...but didn't suggest WHAT to do...hence my post. And I dont MAKE my children clean. I help. I'm there guiding them and that is something that in our house we do. Their bedroom is their responsiblity and it has to be clean because we have a very small house and a lot of children and no place for them to play otherwise. I was asking my daughter to help pick up maybe half a dozen things off the kitchen floor before she went outside. I really don't think that's unreasonable??

A sleep deprived 3 year old isn't reasonable. 3 year olds in general can't reason yet, it's a higher level brain function. You said your DD had sleep problems. Do you wake her up or let her sleep until she wakes? Does she still have excessive night waking or is it problems with getting to sleep?

When DD feels bad I'm less demanding. If my DD felt ill or hadn't had enough sleep she wouldn't be able to get dressed by herself or clean her room. She also needs more snuggle time. Your DDs behavior sounds like sleep deprivation symptoms. If we had plans and my DD felt bad we'd either call and do it later or cancel. I would have talked to my DD when she didn't seem ready to start the day and ask if she just needed to sit awhile to wake up better or if she felt bad enough to not want a playdate. When I'm sleep deprived I have a headache, nausea, and am less alert. Some actual illnesses feel better than not enough sleep.

Mary Kurcinka's Sleepless in America: Is Your Child Misbehaving...or Missing Sleep? could be a good book. It's the only one of her's I haven't read. My 4.5 year old goes to sleep after being up 14 hours and then wakes after sleeping 10, so we haven't needed it. When she was 3 she still had some night waking but just nursed back to sleep. I don't wake her up unless we really have to go some where ..... it's not often. And if I've had to wake her I expect grumpy behavior.

If my DD won't help clean I just do it myself. As I said she's alot more helpful at 4.5 than she was at 3. Also she's more likely to want to dust or unload grocery bags than pick up toys.

[quietserena]

My older one is a few months shy of 4 and i totally understand days like this. She is also having extra hard time now because of the birth of a new sister a few weeks ago so it seems like all of our days are 'one of those days' hopefully until we find some sort of a rhythm.

I would have eased up on her when it was obvious that she is having one of *those* days. So after the friends came over, I would have offered she do a simple craft at the dining room table while I finish up what I need to do and continued to talk to her whlie she did it. My DD1 needs the constant guidance and attention still while she is doing things like this, particularly lately because she is likely to act out so this talking is for two reasons: to keep her from destroying my dining room and to reconnect. Sometimes I even find out something that has been weighing heavy on her.

I realized recently that because DD1 is so verbal I expect too much out of her. I decided to treat her more like she were 2 and things have been going smoother. I supervise as much as I can (hand washing, potty, meals, arts and crafts) and I try to plan things for her to do instead of 'go play by yourself'. I prevent more issues from happening and she and I have been better to each other because of it. I don't know if this is the case for you guys but the replies I got to my thread here imply that it is very common.

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by Evan&Anna's_Mom

I don't think there is anything wrong with what you did, actually. Its not our job to prevent them from being angry/frustrated beyond making sure that we haven't overlooked some basic needs. If you kept her awake, didn't feed her breakfast or a snack, didn't provide her medication or whatever, then this would be your responsibility and should have been handled differently. If you had asked your 3 YO to clean the bathroom unassisted, that would be unreasonable and a meltdown would be "your fault". But making reasonable requests of our children and using natural or logical consequences isn't wrong. IMHO. And if they melt down, it is our job to help them learn that this isn't the appropriate response and its OK, to remove either them or myself from the situation as a logical consequence. But then again, I'm pretty far out on the "strict" side of the GD continuum.

ITA w/this as a general statement although I agree it's complicated by the sleep deprivation aspects. I'd probably just focus on that, really. I think your response to the behavior is appropriate. But it's kind of like advil for a migraine, right? It's not going to do much in the moment and not going to prevent a re-occurrence.

Have you brainstormed on MDC about the sleep issues? I know well the awfulness that is an overtired 3 year old

[weezix]

I agree. The sleep problem is a whole other issue and unfortunatly every day is a challenge. i should post here about that too and see if other moms have experience with that. i know a posted a couple years ago but she was a lot younger and i was a single mom with three babies so my situation was different.

[EdnaMarie]

Honestly, I think you've answered it in your own post. She's not getting enough sleep, so her moods are going to be off. I know I personally just don't deal well when I don't sleep enough. Given that, I don't think there's a whole heck of a lot you could do. Having a three-year-old, I sense that no amount of indulgence or coaching at that point would avoid at least a minor tantrum.

I agree that you need to solve the sleep problem. Good luck

[sunshadow]

Oh, my 3 year old is exactly the same without enough sleep. On those days I just tell her what I want and if she doesn't do it/throws a fit I take a deep breath and tell her what I am feeling since I think it's important for her to know it's ok to have bad feelings, and then I let it go and we just try to make it through the day. I don't ask too much from her until she is feeling better. Hang in there.

[Just1More]

My 3yo is big enough to understand, "If you are tired you need to go back to bed." Or "You are grumpy and you need a nap. Do you need a nap, or can you be nice?" He totally gets it. And he can be nice. He just turned 3, btw.

As far as what I would have done (and I confess to being on the strict side, too), is stop the whole thing at the beginning. She'd had a whole morning of being disagreeable before you really tried to do anything about it. Her grumpies built inside of her all morning, feeling yuckier and yuckier and more overwhelming by the second. I suspect your feelings toward her didn't improve over the course of the day, either. It's hard to be patient and kind to someone genuinely when they are screaming at you! I can fake it, but I think my kids can tell the difference.

Around here, I require that what I ask be done with a cheerful attitude. That means no screaming and throwing things. I go easier on the younger ones, but I absolutely will stop life and do something over and over and over and over again until we can all be respectful about it. I don't let that sort of attitude go all morning. And I might put someone back to bed and start the process over when they wake up.