midwives...do you think UC is as safe as a homebirth? - Page 2

[honeybee]

Once again, I am going to respectfully suggest that this is your baby, your body, your birth, and you should not be coerced into having a UC or going to a hospital if those are not what YOU want to do... just because your dh doesn't want to pay for it. I do not think anyone other than the woman who is actually giving birth should EVER have the deciding vote on where/how/with whom she gives birth.

Just my $0.02.

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by honeybee

Once again, I am going to respectfully suggest that this is your baby, your body, your birth, and you should not be coerced into having a UC or going to a hospital if those are not what YOU want to do... just because your dh doesn't want to pay for it. I do not think anyone other than the woman who is actually giving birth should EVER have the deciding vote on where/how/with whom she gives birth.

Just my $0.02.

You don't have to live with my DH! Anyway, it is his baby too and I am his wife...I don't know that I'd be too thrilled if he made some major health care decision for himself without taking my feelings/opinions into consideration.

And really, it's not like there's a midwife here that I'm happy with and want to hire anyway (aside from the apprentice). One I dislike, one I don't feel safe with, and, well, I guess I could live with the third, but I don't know that I'll get the type of birth I want with her. She absolutely does not do waterbirths, and flat out said they'd take me out of the water if I was in the pool when I'm ready to push, and that's just not the type of drama I want around my birth.

[Romana]

Originally Posted by nikirj

This is not true. See the CPM2000 study and the Washington DOH report. Of the studies done in the US, a bare few poorly designed studies have shown higher mortality in planned midwife-attended homebirths, the rest have shown similar mortality in home vs hospital with injury and intervention less likely for homebirths.

We are unlikely to see eye-to-eye on this issue. There is evidence that U.S. homebirth is not as safe as U.S. hospital birth, and not as safe as homebirth in, say, the UK or Canada. I think the reasons for this are poor continuity of care between home and hospital; irregular and disparate systems of midwifery education, certification and legal status; lack of established protocols and transfer mechanisms for patients who need transfer during labor; willingness of some midwives to take on risky patients; and hospital-provider-based hostility to homebirthing mothers, families and professionals.

There is a reason MANA refuses to release its data, and has not published another study. There is a reason there was so much fudging in the Johnson & Daviss study, including subsequent changes to comparison groups and never using the correct comparison group despite the authors' acknowledgment that they used the wrong one in the first place.

I do not consider homebirth in the U.S. to be as safe as hospital birth, based on the published data available to date. Buuuuut it would be boring to debate it over and over and over again. I don't expect people here to agree with me. It is my assessment based on a review of the studies and available data.

I still choose to homebirth. I think that, generally speaking, the small increased risk of perinatal death is worth the much larger risk of all sorts of other injuries, complications or traumas that are relatively likely at the hospital. But if I could get a totally hands-off, respectful birth in a hospital, I would prefer that option over homebirth based on safety.

[ginapueblo]

There's not been enough good research done to say with any certainty that it is as safe or less safe than midwife-attended homebirth, but I agree with the others who feel it is less safe. There are quite a few situations that I can imagine that would best be attended to by someone with experience and skill. When I delivered my own children at home, I was not in the right frame of mind to attend to these possible scenarios. One of mine, in fact, may have been compromised if not for a skilled midwife to respond. (His short cord snapped as I pulled him to me, causing us both to lose a bit more blood than normal--how long would it have taken me to figure all that out? Longer than it took her, I am sure.)

[CherryBomb]

Originally Posted by Romana

We are unlikely to see eye-to-eye on this issue. There is evidence that U.S. homebirth is not as safe as U.S. hospital birth, and not as safe as homebirth in, say, the UK or Canada. I think the reasons for this are poor continuity of care between home and hospital; irregular and disparate systems of midwifery education, certification and legal status; lack of established protocols and transfer mechanisms for patients who need transfer during labor; willingness of some midwives to take on risky patients; and hospital-provider-based hostility to homebirthing mothers, families and professionals.

This is a good point, thank you.

Anyway, it is his baby too and I am his wife...I don't know that I'd be too thrilled if he made some major health care decision for himself without taking my feelings/opinions into consideration.

I agree with you on this.

[loveneverfails]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

You don't have to live with my DH! Anyway, it is his baby too and I am his wife...I don't know that I'd be too thrilled if he made some major health care decision for himself without taking my feelings/opinions into consideration.

And really, it's not like there's a midwife here that I'm happy with and want to hire anyway (aside from the apprentice). One I dislike, one I don't feel safe with, and, well, I guess I could live with the third, but I don't know that I'll get the type of birth I want with her. She absolutely does not do waterbirths, and flat out said they'd take me out of the water if I was in the pool when I'm ready to push, and that's just not the type of drama I want around my birth.

There is a big difference between making a major health care decision based on certain feelings about safety and asking someone you love to have a birth without an attendant because you don't think the money put towards having a birth attendant is well spent. I would absolutely give weight to safety concerns my husband had regarding my medical treatment, but that's not the same category as giving his financial concerns priority over my safety concerns. That's just not even a question. This isn't deciding on a treatment plan with the help of an expert professional, where obviously you decide as a couple. This is being asked to go outside the care of professionals for do it yourself monitoring and medical treatment during the birth of your child because your husband wants to save money.

Is there a reason why having a water birth is more important to you than having a birth attendant? I just do not hear in your posts someone who feels comfortable with an unassisted birth. Is there any reason in particular why you feel that this birth *needs* to be in the water, or is it just your preference to be in the water?

I understand that your options right now suck, and that you're getting heavy pressure from your husband to not spend the money on a midwife. I'm just looking at this post and the other posts you've written and you don't seem at peace with this at all, and if something goes wrong it could be horrific for your psyche and your marriage above and beyond the trauma of losing a child because you weren't on the same page. That you're even asking if UC is as safe as home birth makes me think that you are trying to convince yourself that this will work out ok without actually having a sense of peace and purpose that UC is the choice you want to make for this birth.

There are some times where you really need to draw a line even though it will cause fights and maybe even long term resentment for years to come because to *not* draw the line risks an alternative that is even worse. I can't tell you, and none of us can tell you, if this is a place where you need to draw that line but I do gently want to ask you to consider that possibility. Is avoiding an extended fight because your husband wants to save money worth you being uncomfortable about whether you are safe while you are giving birth to your child?

I really really don't want to be offensive here. I'm just very concerned reading this, and worried for you.

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by loveneverfails

There is a big difference between making a major health care decision based on certain feelings about safety and asking someone you love to have a birth without an attendant because you don't think the money put towards having a birth attendant is well spent. I would absolutely give weight to safety concerns my husband had regarding my medical treatment, but that's not the same category as giving his financial concerns priority over my safety concerns. That's just not even a question. This isn't deciding on a treatment plan with the help of an expert professional, where obviously you decide as a couple. This is being asked to go outside the care of professionals for do it yourself monitoring and medical treatment during the birth of your child because your husband wants to save money.

It really isn't quite like that. We did actually hire a midwife, but I no longer feel comfortable with her and won't be seeing her again. He truly doesn't think anything will go wrong and so doesn't see the point of paying for a midwife, but he's not refusing to hire one if a good one suddenly becomes available. His preference would still be for a UC though, and he has a very forceful personality and sometimes I just get tired of going against it (not necessarily on this issue, just in general). And truly, we don't have the money for a midwife. I don't know where it's going to come from.

Is there a reason why having a water birth is more important to you than having a birth attendant? I just do not hear in your posts someone who feels comfortable with an unassisted birth. Is there any reason in particular why you feel that this birth *needs* to be in the water, or is it just your preference to be in the water?

It's not even a particular preference to be in the water. I just want to have the option. I don't want to be yanked out of my birth space if I do happen to be in the water when I feel like pushing. With my son's birth I was in the pool for two contractions when I started to feel the urge to push, and I physically could not have gotten out at that point. I don't want to be drug out of the water if that happens again. I think it would be really difficult to get back into labor land if that happens. And I do want to be able to labor in the water, so to me it makes sense to have the option to birth in the water too.

That you're even asking if UC is as safe as home birth makes me think that you are trying to convince yourself that this will work out ok without actually having a sense of peace and purpose that UC is the choice you want to make for this birth.

I'm trying to gather enough information for myself to be either fully comfortable UC'ing, or not.

There are some times where you really need to draw a line even though it will cause fights and maybe even long term resentment for years to come because to *not* draw the line risks an alternative that is even worse. I can't tell you, and none of us can tell you, if this is a place where you need to draw that line but I do gently want to ask you to consider that possibility. Is avoiding an extended fight because your husband wants to save money worth you being uncomfortable about whether you are safe while you are giving birth to your child?

I don't have a problem drawing a line here...but it would be a lot easier if it were obvious where the line could be drawn, ie if a midwife I was happy with were available. I'm hoping to find a way for the apprentice midwife to be able to come, either to a "UC" as a friend (she's considering it), or to see if there's any way for her to have a different preceptor for this birth (which would basically mean finding someone who would "supervise" over the phone and I don't know how feasible that is). I like her a lot, she'll barter the fee...but she'll get her license a few weeks after I'm due.

[bobandjess99]

I think you have hit it on the nose. UC, even when made as an informed choice by a knowledgable person, is probably not as safe as an assisted homebirth. HOWEVER......it probably still is reasonably safe, and you need to decide if it is safe ENOUGH for you.

[dannic]

I just wanted to give you a cyber hug! It's a really tough decision! I agree that husband and wife should be on the same page. My midwife is a tad over two hrs away from me and I have to live with the fact that she could NOT make it. I do plan to be prepared for a UC, but would MUCH rather have her be here before the birth. It's something that I'm fine with at times and then I'm really worried about at times...my options are that or the only hospital with a huge Csec rate...
I also understand the financial strain...
I hope things smooth out for you quickly!

[Jenne]

I'm trying to remember where you are from your other posts...have you considered going to the Farm? Or finding a lay midwife? The Farm is just wonderful and they certainly do waterbirth there. A lay midwife might open new options as well. I'm sorry you are in this position but good for you for weighing out all the options. I sincerely hope you can find a solution that meets your needs.

Jenne

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by Jenne

I'm trying to remember where you are from your other posts...have you considered going to the Farm? Or finding a lay midwife? The Farm is just wonderful and they certainly do waterbirth there. A lay midwife might open new options as well. I'm sorry you are in this position but good for you for weighing out all the options. I sincerely hope you can find a solution that meets your needs.

Jenne

The Farm is on the opposite side of the country so not really an option! I'm not sure exactly what a lay midwife is, but the ones around here are licensed by the state but DEMs or CPMs. There aren't any unlicensed ones as far as I know.

[CherryBomb]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

It really isn't quite like that. We did actually hire a midwife, but I no longer feel comfortable with her and won't be seeing her again. He truly doesn't think anything will go wrong and so doesn't see the point of paying for a midwife, but he's not refusing to hire one if a good one suddenly becomes available. His preference would still be for a UC though, and he has a very forceful personality and sometimes I just get tired of going against it (not necessarily on this issue, just in general). And truly, we don't have the money for a midwife. I don't know where it's going to come from.

Well, he can be as sure as all get out that nothings going to go wrong. That doesn't mean it won't. Like I said, I truly think husbands should be involved in decision making regarding birth! BUT...UCing because your husband doesn't think you need a mw or doesn't want to pay for one is not a good choice, you know? And I get that you don't really have the money for a mw, but in that case, I'd be looking at hospital birth with a doula. Good luck!

[Pirogi]

Originally Posted by CherryBomb

Well, he can be as sure as all get out that nothings going to go wrong. That doesn't mean it won't. Like I said, I truly think husbands should be involved in decision making regarding birth! BUT...UCing because your husband doesn't think you need a mw or doesn't want to pay for one is not a good choice, you know? And I get that you don't really have the money for a mw, but in that case, I'd be looking at hospital birth with a doula. Good luck!

I agree that your husband's gut feeling regarding the birth doesn't trump your feelings. You are the one carrying the baby, you are the one connected physically, emotionally, energetically with the baby. If you feel there is reason to have an attendant for this birth, then maybe UC isn't the best choice.

Then again, I absolutely disagree that hospital birth with a doula is always a better option in a situation like yours (I find myself in a similar situation in that there are no available midwives I feel 100% comfortable with). It is my opinion that preserving your emotional and spiritual health is as important as preserving your baby's physical health. Maybe moreso, since you and baby are one throughout labor. If you feel that it would be harmful to your psyche to be in a hospital surrounded by fear and interruptions and the threat of interventions during the birth, then that is a very real reason to consider UC. I think many times women are (understandably) too willing to sacrifice their own physical or emotional health in the name of physical safety of the baby. It is a situation where you have to take into account what could happen to you in a hospital birth, and include that in your analysis when you are weighing the pros and cons of all of your options. Safety of the baby isn't always the only factor, and I think it is time that we as women allow ourselves to acknowledge how birth choices affect us as well as our babies.

[olstep]

Good question! The thread should be in the stickies, IMO!

[BabyMae09]

I just want to say that I am VERY proud of you for considerng this so carefully. In the end, you have to do what feels right to you. You are the one carrying the baby. Whatever you decide, know that I am there for you in spirit

What about hiring a midwife from another town?

Or what about having a friend act as your lay midwife? Do you have any friends that have been present at any births? Even just animal births? I know it's not ideal, but since you are in a tight spot, maybe something like that could work.

Take care and blessings

Also, I have a very good feeling about this upcoming birth. I really get the impression that you and the baby will be just fine, no matter what route you choose.

I (almost) had a UC. I transfered because my intuition told me to. DD's sholder got stuck very briefly, but I really doubt my DP could have done anything to fix it as he was sort of loopy from lack of sleep and the importance of it all by that point.

I did my pre-natal care at our local hospital, but planned to UC, as I said. We got to the hospital about 30 minutes before she was born. They didn't have time to do anything to me

DP caught our daughter, we went home asap.

It was very natural and although it wasn't what I wanted, I'm trying to come to peace with it. Anyway, PM me if you want more info

I think intuition is extremely important throughout pregnancy and birth. I went to the hospital one time while pregnant because I knew something had changed, and I was right. DD had flipped over! That was why I couldn't feel her kick, or find her heartbeat with our doppler. So, it was nothing bad, but I was right - something had changed. I also had the feeling throughout my pregnancy that I would 'end up' at the hospital (this was when we were trying to choose between a midwife or UC). Of course, I ended up being right about that, too

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by CherryBomb

And I get that you don't really have the money for a mw, but in that case, I'd be looking at hospital birth with a doula. Good luck!

You're assuming we have insurance to cover a hospital birth We don't.

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by Pirogi

Then again, I absolutely disagree that hospital birth with a doula is always a better option in a situation like yours (I find myself in a similar situation in that there are no available midwives I feel 100% comfortable with).

Yeah, aside from the fact that we don't have insurance anyway so a hospital birth would be even more of a financial strain, I have no desire to birth in a hospital unless it's truly necessary. I don't see not having a good midwife available (for me, with my birthing history) as a reason to go to the hospital, and honestly, even if we had insurance that wouldn't be an option I'd be considering.

[VillageMom6]

It sounds to me like you've already got your mind made up.

I hope and pray that your third birth is as wonderfully uncomplicated as your first two were.

[misidawnrn]

not to hijack your thread and I haven't talked to you for a while on this.... I hardly come to this site but I came here because it has the midwives forum....and I am taking a new path in life...will have to talk to you more IRL later...hehehehehe...
My offer still stands to you and your DH to attend your birth as a UC (with me standing by for birth knowledge/help if needed). Just wanted to throw that out there. Hugs to you. I know you are having a hard time with this decision. My price is right up your alley too... (free!)

[mamagranola28]

To be willing and able mentally and spiritually to make such a difficult desision can be such a strain. After reading everything that has been said I just keep thinking that YOU are the one that truly knows what is best for you and the baby for THIS birth. When you are in a clear place doing what is best for you IS what is best for the baby. If we are in tune, nature keeps us from making selfish choices that would compromise our babies health. What you need to do will come to you. It is you right to be lead and directed to the best way to birth. Good Luck.