Pertussis Epidemic in Bay Area/CA? - Page 2

[Pirogi]

Originally Posted by Deborah

I'll make a prediction. At some point, someone will develop a new vaccine against pertussis which actually prevents transmission and carriage of this bug. At that point it will be admitted that the old vaccine didn't really work. But not before then.

This is actually a question I haven't been able to answer yet. I know that the old pertussis vaccine said in the package insert that it did not prevent transmission, but that statement isn't anywhere to be found in the new vaccine. Then they push campaigns for pertussis vaccination of adults who are around babies to "protect" them. What is the rationale behind the belief that the new pertussis vax doesn't prevent transmission? Is this a known characteristic of the vax? What sources tell us this? Or is it unknown at this point?

TIA.

[ma2two]

Originally Posted by Pirogi

What is the rationale behind the belief that the new pertussis vax doesn't prevent transmission? Is this a known characteristic of the vax? What sources tell us this? Or is it unknown at this point?

http://iai.highwire.org/cgi/content/full/68/12/7175

Even the vaccine manufacturer feels it must admit in their advertisment that "It is unknown whether immunizing adolescents and adults against pertussis will reduce the risk of transmission to infants."
http://www.adacel-locator.com/index....E&P=HowS_pread under second photo

[cocoanib]

I just saw this on yahoo news today.
I'll admit it put a little fear into me because DD currently has
a runny nose and itchy eyes. Not much of a cough yet, but she seems to have come down with something. I've been watching her and I scoured the vax and health threads on ways to treat it if she does have it. I'm picking up some SA tomorrow to get her started on that.
We don't vax, but she's 3 1/2 months, so she wouldn't have been vaxed fully anyways. Not that it matters with this particular illness.

[anewmama]

I asked perspective of this elsewhere of a pediatrician and appreciated the response and the perspective. PM me if you want to know more. Quite concise and clear. Pretty much sums up what is being said in this thread.

[CellarDoor]

Originally Posted by cocoanib

I'm picking up some SA tomorrow to get her started on that.

What is SA? I'm freaking out here a bit b/c my 4.5 yo has a small cold and a nasty cough every once in awhile (worse at night). She also has a weird rash, so we're off to the doc tomorrow. I also have a 10 month old.

Any recs on prevention if it is pertussis?

[ma2two]

Originally Posted by CellarDoor

What is SA? I'm freaking out here a bit b/c my 4.5 yo has a small cold and a nasty cough every once in awhile (worse at night). She also has a weird rash, so we're off to the doc tomorrow. I also have a 10 month old.

Any recs on prevention if it is pertussis?

SA is sodium ascorbate. It is a type of vitamin C. For pertussis, it is taken several times per day day to bowel tolerance. Too much will cause diarrhea.

If it is pertussis, the doctor will notify the health department and prescribe antibiotics. The antibiotics actually make the illness worse, but they do reduce the time the person is contagious. I personally would never take them for pertussis or give them to my kids, but I would fill the prescription to keep the health department off my back.

[INF-ss]

Originally Posted by Pirogi

What is the rationale behind the belief that the new pertussis vax doesn't prevent transmission? Is this a known characteristic of the vax? What sources tell us this? Or is it unknown at this point?

TIA.

Because the principle behind vaccination is not about prevention but the induction of infection.

[Deborah]

Originally Posted by CellarDoor

What is SA? I'm freaking out here a bit b/c my 4.5 yo has a small cold and a nasty cough every once in awhile (worse at night). She also has a weird rash, so we're off to the doc tomorrow. I also have a 10 month old.

Any recs on prevention if it is pertussis?

There are some threads in the archives under pertussis with detailed descriptions of how to care for an infant with the illness. For an older child it isn't as serious, but the SA will still help.

[YesandNo]

Originally Posted by Turquesa

This would make sense, particularly if these children came from undocumented immigrant families, who in many cases have no incentive to seek medical care. In fact, the powers that be discourage it.

Pertussis is treatable, provided that people seek treatment.

Not as treatable for young infants. 5 infant deaths so far, all babies under 6 months -- who obviously contracted it from an unvaxed child/adult. NY Times has an article on the deaths, sorry can't link right now. It is just tragic from any perspective.

All in "latino farm worker community" which I presume means undocumented. I very much hope vaxes / boosters are being offered free of charge to anyone in that community who wants one.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by YesandNo

Not as treatable for young infants. 5 infant deaths so far, all babies under 6 months -- who obviously contracted it from an unvaxed child/adult. NY Times has an article on the deaths, sorry can't link right now. It is just tragic from any perspective.

All in "latino farm worker community" which I presume means undocumented. I very much hope vaxes / boosters are being offered free of charge to anyone in that community who wants one.

1. They just as likely got it from vaxed adults/children, since it doesn't prevemt transmission, a vaccinated person would have less severe symptoms and think they just have a cough and wouldn't necessarily stay home and away from others. If they were vaccinated,they would also be less likely to be correctly diagnosed.

2. I work with migrant workers. They are all very well documented and highly vaccinated. The migrant workers act is very tightly regulated. MOst of the people I work with are from Mexico and they are more vaccinated as adults than people in the US.

[Pirogi]

Originally Posted by YesandNo

Not as treatable for young infants. 5 infant deaths so far, all babies under 6 months -- who obviously contracted it from an unvaxed child/adult. NY Times has an article on the deaths, sorry can't link right now. It is just tragic from any perspective.

How do you (or anyone) know how/from whom the babies contracted the illness? That is absolutely impossible to tell with a disease like pertussis.

I agree though that death from disease is tragic.

[Pirogi]

Originally Posted by ma2two

http://iai.highwire.org/cgi/content/full/68/12/7175

Even the vaccine manufacturer feels it must admit in their advertisment that "It is unknown whether immunizing adolescents and adults against pertussis will reduce the risk of transmission to infants."
http://www.adacel-locator.com/index....E&P=HowS_pread under second photo

I couldn't get to the adacel link from this computer, but the first was immensely helpful! Thank you!

[poppan]

OK--have done a lot more reading this morning--and here is my grand conclusion (ta-da!)...

1. Vaccination/boosters of adults and teens does not prevent transmission (from vaccine manufacturer).
2. Unvax'd children are more likely to get WC than vax'd children (NY Times article said 1 in 20 for unvax'd kids, vs 1 in 500 for vax'd kids--based on a retrospective study of WC diagnoses in a CO Kaiser plan)
3. Sooo... we're all equally exposed since vaccination status does not prevent transmission, unvax'd children are more likely to get it, so vax your child if you want the partial protection and leave the rest of us alone.

[ASusan]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

1. They just as likely got it from vaxed adults/children, since it doesn't prevemt transmission, a vaccinated person would have less severe symptoms and think they just have a cough and wouldn't necessarily stay home and away from others. If they were vaccinated,they would also be less likely to be correctly diagnosed.

2. I work with migrant workers. They are all very well documented and highly vaccinated. The migrant workers act is very tightly regulated. MOst of the people I work with are from Mexico and they are more vaccinated as adults than people in the US.

Yes and yes.

My mom was a school nurse (in the 70s-80s) with a lot of seasonal migrant worker children in her district. When the workers arrived in the fall, if the parents didn't have/provide proper vax records, the children were (re-)vaxed before they could attend school. I assume the same would happen when the children went south in the spring...

I shudder to think what this generation of migrant worker children get for vaxes.

[anewmama]

seasonal allergies

I am really wondering what studies have been done on allergies and rainfall/climate in relation to WC outbreaks. I go back and forth between the coast and Mariposa, just north of Fresno. I am not typically prone to allergies but I got hit this spring. It was awful. There were wildflowers everywhere. Flowers that locals say they have not seen in decades. We had cyclical rain and warm weather for a long time. Our property saw an explosion of flowers and grasses that we have never seen before.

I wonder if these conditions created a perfect opportunity for WC to flourish among adults with already weakened respiratory systems form the allergies and pollen and what not. From people I know in the Fresno area, it was really bad this spring. So I wonder if these infants were living in rural areas and exposed to more struggling adults making everyone more vulnerable.

[YesandNo]

They just as likely got it from vaxed adults/children, since it doesn't prevemt transmission, a vaccinated person would have less severe symptoms and think they just have a cough and wouldn't necessarily stay home and away from others. If they were vaccinated,they would also be less likely to be correctly diagnosed.

Source?

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by YesandNo

Source?

Here is one well sourced article:
http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/2008/02/14/pertussis-yo-yo-stats/

You can check out this old thread for other pertinant info:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=998940


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC529164/

The absence of vaccine-induced bactericidal activity in vitro is consistent with the observation that the pertussis vaccine is effective at preventing severe disease, likely due to pertussis toxin neutralization and blocking attachment to reduce bacterial colonization, but it is less effective at producing a sterilizing immune response (5, 18). Despite high vaccination rates, the number of reported cases of pertussis in the United States has increased steadily since the 1980s (22).

From the CDC Pink Book (http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...loads/pert.pdf)

Pertussis incidence has been gradually increasing since the early 1980s. A total of 25,827 cases was reported in 2004, the largest number since 1959. The reasons for the increase are not clear.

http://www.ima.org.il/imaj/ar06may-2.pdf

Pertussis is considered an endemic disease, characterized by an epidemic every 2–5 years. This rate of exacerbations has not changed, even after the introduction of mass vaccination – a fact that indicates the efficacy of the vaccine in preventing the disease but not the transmission of the causative agent (B. pertussis) within the population [19].

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol6no5/pdf/srugo.pdf

The effects of whole-cell pertussis vaccine wane after 5 to 10 years, and infection in a vaccinated person causes nonspecific symptoms (3-7). Vaccinated adolescents and adults may serve as reservoirs for silent infection and become potential transmitters to unprotected infants (3-11). The whole-cell vaccine for pertussis is protective only against clinical disease, not against infection (15-17). Therefore, even young, recently vaccinated children may serve as reservoirs and potential transmitters of infection.

http://chestjournal.chestpubs.org/co...15/5/1254.full

Although the vaccine has been very effective in controlling the disease, the transmission of B pertussis has not been eliminated by vaccination and still causes morbidity, even in the vaccinated population.

[hippy mum]

Here might be some useful info on Pertussis.http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/...nes-work/dtap/

I still need to call the health dept. It's just very annoying that they are not reporting actual numbers of the confirmed cases-who was vaccinated and who was not.
Is it spring/cold season there in CA where the "outbreak" is?

[anewmama]

summer

The cases are in the valley mostly where it's warm. Though this late spring early summer are on the cooler side. First day of Summer was Monday.

[hippy mum]

Oddly enough, Travis County in Tx was dealing with an "outbreak"-the worst they ever had last year and this year still, yet it's not news worthy. They must be on the same cycle as CA? When I looked at the CDC chart for disease stats, Fl also had a lot, yet it's not news either. Now, I don't know if there were any deaths in TX. I'm guessing that's what's causing the start of the uproar, since the articles of Pertussis on the rise in CA date back to Jan.