2010 Pertussis outbreak - Page 2

[Penny4Them]

The 5 infants (God bless their souls and their families) who died of WC recently in CA were 3 mos or younger, so they may have had 1 dtap beginning at 2 mos (speculatory of course). Has anyone found out if these babies rec'd 1st vax?

If an unvaxed baby did develop confirmewd WC, would there be any reason NOT to report it? Are parents and/or doctrors required to report it?

[Peony]

Eh. We had so many pertussis cases in my rural area a couple years back, that the CDC even came out to investigate. We had gotten it the year before, conformed cases because my DD2 was hospitalized and very ill (newborn). It was reported to the health dept as it is standard procedure, they call and ask questions, it really isn't a big deal, I answered them and that was the end of that.


Pertussis is always around, I believe that the reason we hear about it so much now is because they finally realized vaxs aren't good for life.


I now work for the health dept and one of our recent staff meetings was on vaxs, mostly H1N1, but some others were thrown in there as well. Most of the pertussis cases are in people that have been vaxed, I can't remember our local numbers, but there were only a handful that were not-vaxers. And yes I do find it ironic that a no-vaxing person works for the health dept but I don't work in immunizations since it against my personal beliefs.

[chaoticzenmom]

Originally Posted by SpottedFoxx

Thank you for this response. It makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, those are in our everyday life and our children come in contact with them without use realizing it. Did you know that a large percentage of liquid makeup (foundation primarily) has formaldehyde. A great number of anti-perspirates have aluminum. We're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't.

Yes, unfortunally, many here at MDC are aware of these things. That's why we look so natural and smell so, um natural (ok, I'll speak for myself ) It's really exhausting sometimes to try to eliminate toxins from our bodies and environments. I do look for those things in our life, not just in beauty products, but household smelly and cleaning products, materials in our home, food etc.

Really, the reason we don't vaccinate is the same reason you do. We love our kids and are trying to do the best we can for them with what we know.

Back to Pertussis. That was one of the only 2 vaccines my third child had. I had stopped vaxxing when my 2nd was a year old and wasn't sure if I was a selective vaxxer or non-vaxxer. He had the dtap at 9mo and screamed in pain for 2 days straight, no sleeping, no eating. So, we're firmly non-vaxxers. I do worry about pertussis though. I wash hands, avoid pharmacies and dr's offices, I wash cart handles at the grocery store, I feed the kids well. If someone in a movie theatre is coughing, I"ll move. That's really all I can do. I cannot give that vaccine knowing the pain it caused my other son.

[ammiga]

Originally Posted by SpottedFoxx

Thank you for the explanation. If that is the case, and I could still get it but without the cough, I'll definitely get the vaccine (I can see someone breaking a rib) cause it kept me up for days.

It doesn't eliminate the cough, it just reportedly can lessen the symptoms. I would still want to know how the vaccine can offer this more than the actual disease can. I would stand to reason that a recent case of pertussis would offer the same type of protection as the vaccine, if not better. Vaccinating after a recent case of the disease makes little sense to me. I understand that your doctor is recommending it, but I would want to to know why. And how your doctor feels it is more protection than the disease.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I truly do not understand this and would love to get a better understanding of this logic.

[SpottedFoxx]

Originally Posted by ammiga

It doesn't eliminate the cough, it just reportedly can lessen the symptoms. I would still want to know how the vaccine can offer this more than the actual disease can. I would stand to reason that a recent case of pertussis would offer the same type of protection as the vaccine, if not better. Vaccinating after a recent case of the disease makes little sense to me. I understand that your doctor is recommending it, but I would want to to know why. And how your doctor feels it is more protection than the disease.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I truly do not understand this and would love to get a better understanding of this logic.

And when the time comes, I would absolutely ask her why. The second time was absolutely worse than the first time. Maybe because I'm a bit older, maybe because my disease has progressed a bit since then, who knows. I'm still coughing (no where near as bad) a month later.

If all it does is lesson the severity - I'd still do it. It's not a fun thing to have. It's not the end of the world but if I can make myself more comfortable, I will.

[Skinjob]

Originally Posted by ammiga

No. The vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting the pertussis.

This is true. I got the vaccine when I was 12 and I still got whooping cough. I was sick for three months. The vaccine wasn't effective in my case.

[poppan]

Originally Posted by Penny4Them

If an unvaxed baby did develop confirmewd WC, would there be any reason NOT to report it? Are parents and/or doctrors required to report it?

Based on my pedi visit -- I was under the impression that we are required to report it if it is a confirmed case. I chose not to report because my pedi said she would have to prescribe antibiotics if the diagnosis were official, and the antibiotics would likely prolong the cough. (We voluntarily quarantined ourselves at home instead--the antibiotics are meant to prevent spreading the bacteria to others.) Also, we would have to do the lab test to confirm diagnosis and it sounded unpleasant to obtain the swab needed, with no benefit to my child that I could see (as treatment was exactly the same whether the diagnosis was confirmed by a lab in a week, or not). And I have to say, in the back of my mind I did not want to report an unvax'd case.

[mom0810]

posted by SpottedFox: And when the time comes, I would absolutely ask her why. The second time was absolutely worse than the first time. Maybe because I'm a bit older, maybe because my disease has progressed a bit since then, who knows. I'm still coughing (no where near as bad) a month later."

--and you will cough for two more months, if what you had was really pertussis. That's why it's called the 100 day cough.

You can be coughing for 6 weeks or more after typical viral bronchitis, too. And mycoplasma (walking pneumonia) will cause a cough lasting two months or more sometimes.

The vaccine does NOT prevent transmission, so if that is the rationale for vaccinating, it's not a great one.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by ammiga

No. The vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting the pertussis. I'm sure someone can chime in and explain this better than I can, but I think it prevents the toxin from attaching that causes the awful part of the cough. So you still "catch" pertussis and you still spread it around. You just don't get the quite as bad of a cough from it, which actually makes you more likely to spread it on to more people, since you don't realize you have pertussis.

maybe this will help
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC529164/

The absence of vaccine-induced bactericidal activity in vitro is consistent with the observation that the pertussis vaccine is effective at preventing severe disease, likely due to pertussis toxin neutralization and blocking attachment to reduce bacterial colonization, but it is less effective at producing a sterilizing immune response (5, 18). Despite high vaccination rates, the number of reported cases of pertussis in the United States has increased steadily since the 1980s (22). Developing a pertussis vaccine with a greater potential to elicit bactericidal activity could reduce bacterial carriage and reduce the incidence of disease.

[eireann]

Originally Posted by AFWife

But the DTaP isn't offered to children in the real danger zone (under 6 months) I think it comes down to personal responsibility. If you have a cough you should stay home, period.

that.

[poppan]

But the DTaP isn't offered to children in the real danger zone (under 6 months) I think it comes down to personal responsibility. If you have a cough you should stay home, period.

Agree that people with coughs should not go around coughing on babies, but also want to point out that DTaP is offered for children under 6 months -- the schedule is 2 months, 4 months, 6 months. (It's very top of mind for me because my DD reacted to her DTaP shot at 2 months.) Now how much protection it really offers--that's a different question.

IMHO it's safer to keep your <6 months babies home and away from other people. Pertussis is apparently most communicable in the initial phase when you aren't even coughing yet--and only showing signs of a minor cold.

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by poppan

Agree that people with coughs should not go around coughing on babies, but also want to point out that DTaP is offered for children under 6 months -- the schedule is 2 months, 4 months, 6 months. (It's very top of mind for me because my DD reacted to her DTaP shot at 2 months.) Now how much protection it really offers--that's a different question.

IMHO it's safer to keep your <6 months babies home and away from other people. Pertussis is apparently most communicable in the initial phase when you aren't even coughing yet--and only showing signs of a minor cold.

Maybe I should have said babies aren't fully covered until they're out of the danger zone.

Yeah, we didn't go out a lot before he reached, like, 4 or 5 months...and we don't vax at all so I'm not afraid of germs.

[cocoanib]

I just saw this on yahoo news today.
I'll admit it put a little fear into me because DD currently has
a runny nose and itchy eyes. Not much of a cough yet, but she seems to have come down with something. I've been watching her and I scoured the vax and health threads on ways to treat it if she does have it. I'm picking up some SA tomorrow to get her started on that.

We don't vax, but she's 3 1/2 months, so she wouldn't have been vaxed fully anyways. Not that it matters with this particular illness.

[Deborah]

Hope it turns out to be just a cold. But if it is pertussis you are on the right track with SA.

Good luck!

[Marnica]

[QUOTE=poppan;15555315]Agree that people with coughs should not go around coughing on babies, but also want to point out that DTaP is offered for children under 6 months -- the schedule is 2 months, 4 months, 6 months. (It's very top of mind for me because my DD reacted to her DTaP shot at 2 months.) Now how much protection it really offers--that's a different question.

IMHO it's safer to keep your <6 months babies home and away from other people. Pertussis is apparently most communicable in the initial phase when you aren't even coughing yet--and only showing signs of a minor cold.

Totally agree with this however the reality is for people who work and don't have paid maternity leave, taking 6 months off is not a possibility.

[SilverMoon010]

Originally Posted by Deborah

Hope it turns out to be just a cold. But if it is pertussis you are on the right track with SA.

Good luck!

What does SA stand for?

[cocoanib]

Originally Posted by Deborah

Hope it turns out to be just a cold. But if it is pertussis you are on the right track with SA.

Good luck!

Thanks. I'll be ready if needed.

[QUOTE=Marnica;15557158]

Originally Posted by poppan

Agree that people with coughs should not go around coughing on babies, but also want to point out that DTaP is offered for children under 6 months -- the schedule is 2 months, 4 months, 6 months. (It's very top of mind for me because my DD reacted to her DTaP shot at 2 months.) Now how much protection it really offers--that's a different question.



Totally agree with this however the reality is for people who work and don't have paid maternity leave, taking 6 months off is not a possibility.

Yep, yep.
DD had to start daycare at 2 months. Beleive me, I hate having her there, but DH and I both have to work. I'm very careful with wiping her down and changing her clothes when she get's home, but if one of those kiddies in the daycare has something, they could caugh all over her and we would never know it until she comes down with something.

Originally Posted by Mandy F

What does SA stand for?

sodium ascorbate

[heathergirl67]

Originally Posted by Mandy F

I just saw this on the mainstream news yesterday (don't ask me why I even listened to it - I hate the mainstream news) that there is an outbreak of pertussis (I think mainly in CA), and of course, I've read articles where the "antivaxers" are to blame. What do you guys feel about this when they blame those who choose not to vaccinate on these outbreaks? I can foresee these "outbreaks" happening over and over again and the govt choosing to make vaccines mandatory for everyone.

Quick side note: Where are good places to go for non-mainstream news? This question is open to everbody. TIA!

[Deborah]

Vaccination News usually has both mainstream and non-mainstream news about vaccination, autism, outbreaks of illness.

[heathergirl67]

Originally Posted by Deborah

Vaccination News usually has both mainstream and non-mainstream news about vaccination, autism, outbreaks of illness.

Awesome! Thanks, I'll check it out. They just do mostly health-related news? Where's a good place to go for alt. news about everything?