What do I do about DH's clutter? I mean, "treasures"?

[Comtessa]

I am in desperate need of some advice about what to do with my DH's clutter.

This house was DH's for years before I moved in, so 90% of the clutter is his. And of course, as George Carlin says about other people's things, "their stuff is s**t, but your s**t is stuff!" That is to say, it's stuff that he likes. All of it. Everywhere. Thaty's why it's here in the first place. And just because I think it would be nice to downsize our stuff, that doesn't mean he agrees about which stuff to downsize, and he'd rather do anything than reorganize or declutter. It's too overwhelming for him to tackle, even with help, and my attempts to encourage him to do so usually end with me in tears and him frustrated and sad. Every time I say, "can we get rid of this?" he usually looks at me with a hurt expression and says something like, "You don't like my things, you're complaining about the house again, why don't you like living here?"

So, I feel completely at a loss about decluttering this house. I feel like I just keep getting rid of all of my stuff to make more space, but we can't get rid of any of his stuff. Right now, for example, his clothes fill one and a half closets, while my clothes are in the other half of his second closet. The whole house is like this - I just keep trying to rearrange his stuff so that it takes up less space, because he gets so offended when I suggest that we get rid of anything he owns. Anyone else BTDT and have some advice?

[lolar2]

More shelves?

[happysmileylady]

I think you can take one of two approaches. I think you could either try having a discussion with him to try to get him to see the problem and then set aside time to go through it together. OR, you could hide it first then get rid of it bit by bit.

In the discussion route, I think you should sit down and talk to him about how you feel about the lack of space. And when he starts in with the crap about not liking the house, cut him off. Explain that this has nothing to do with the house, but you feeling crowded out. Make sure he understands that it's not that you don't like the stuff or don't want to live in the house, but that you just want an equal space in the house. It's not that you don't like the half a closet of clothes you want him to get rid of, rather that you feel disregarded by only being allowed 1/3 the amount of closet space he has.


In hiding it and getting rid of it bit by bit, you box up little bits of the stuff at a time, put it away in the closet or attic or basement or whatever, and if he hasn't asked or throught about it say 6 months or whatever, then you just toss it.

You could go a third option, if you have the money. Talk to him about renting a storage unit. Don't get rid of the stuff, but ask him about going through the clutter and sorting out what could go in storage. Then after it's all been in storage for 6 months or 1 year or whatever, if he hasn't been to the storage unit to get stuff back out, then you could talk to him about getting rid of it. You could then approach it from the standpoint of having paid for the unit for a year, never having needed anything in it and could use the money more than continuing to pay for the unit, so could you maybe sell the stuff to get the money and get rid of the unit.

[Pookietooth]

I think this is why that advice I heard years ago about not moving in to the guy's house but instead starting fresh with a new place together was created. Do you sense that he's got hoarding tendencies or is it just that he's really got a large amount of interests? If he's a hoarder he might benefit from counseling. I have the tendency myself and I agree with the storage idea, because that worked on me when we were moving. Oh, and maybe you could talk about moving? To a bigger space to have more space for you?

[mkksmom]

I think you need to get a third party involved. Maybe an organizer if he'd agree to it. Personally, I wouldn't be afraid to say that, you love him and living with him, but you don't like living with all of his stuff because you feel like it robs you of time you two could be spending together. And explain how too much stuff makes you feel, even if you like the stuff, you have to pick your favorite things because clutter makes you feel _______. Then point out that you have even been getting rid of your things that you like because you can't handle having that much around you. Tell him you'd love to have a closet all to yourself. Don't be afraid to push a little. Use your judgment, but some times the pity party you don't like living with me stuff is just a distraction and a defense mechanism, IMO. There must be a way to find a balance between getting you the space you need and allowing him ti keep enough of his treasures. It's tough, though, so that's why I think a third person involved would help.

[Crayfish]

Have you tried approaching it in terms of space rather than stuff?

That is, rather than, "Can I get rid of your eighth grade prom tuxedo?", the approach would be, "You have one and a half closets, I have half a closet. I need to have my own closet." Then you're not judging his stuff, you're just exercising your right to, well, _exist_ in your shared marital home, rather than being a grudgingly tolerated guest. You're married; it's not "his house" any more.

So if you're already rearranging his stuff, I'd say rearrange his stuff out of what will be your closet. Get some boxes, fold it all nice and neat and pretty, and put it... well, that's the problem. Is there any space at all? Basement, garage, anything?

If there isn't, then you might, yes, need a storage unit. It's a horrible waste of money, but I think that it's important to establish your territory in this house. Your closet. Your bureau. Your desk. A living room and bedroom and kitchen and bathrooms - all the shared territory - that you're both happy with. If he has a study or hobby room, _you_ have a study or hobby room. Inch by inch, you need to transform this place from being all his to being his, yours, and shared. And in the end, you should have _just as much_ territory as he does.

Because if he has even mild hoarding instincts, those instincts will drive him to make every last inch of territory his. You're going to need to take your territory, and you may very well need to do it without his cooperation. Gently, cheerfully, nicely, but without his cooperation. Because hoarders, even mild ones, never, ever cooperate in giving up their territory. You have to take it from them.

I'd say, start with the closet. Move his stuff out - cheerfully, nicely, respecting the stuff, folding it all pretty, keeping it clean - and make that closet all yours. And from then on, rule it with an iron fist - do not let him store anything of his in that closet. His is about to explode from hanger compression, and yours is so loosely filled that you could push all the shirts into a quarter of the space? Doesn't matter. That closet is _yours_. You let him put one shoe in there, and in two weeks the closet will be his again.

And then move on to the next space.

And if he doesn't like it, and feels that you're taking over "his" house? It may be time to sell and buy a house that you both feel like home in, and start the territory negotiation from scratch.

Crayfish

[Comtessa]

Oh, sigh, I was afraid you'd all say that.

Moving out of this house and starting fresh in a new one is the only really good, nonconfrontational solution I can see to the problem, too. But with the housing market the way it is, I don't think we'll be able to sell this house -- we're in an urban neighborhood that's been hard-hit by the foreclosure crisis. And if we did sell, we'd take an enormous loss on the house. I don't know if it's worth it to throw away thousands of dollars just so I can have my own space that feels like "mine." Plus, it's a nice little house for us, in a wonderful neighborhood, and we have really excellent neighbors -- there are really good reasons to stay.

As far as more shelves go... that's an option, I suppose, but where would we put them? Every inch of wall space is crowded with furniture, mostly big beautiful antiques that we'd both hate to get rid of. I'm grateful that I brought almost no furniture when I moved in, 'cause there's really nowhere for anything big. If we had a slightly bigger house then the giant furniture wouldn't crowd in on the space so much, and the clutter wouldn't feel so oppressive if the furniture weren't so enormous already. But it would be absolute foolishness to get rid of such nice, mostly heirloom furniture just because it's too big for our house.

The basement has serious water problems and we can't store anything down there that has any value because mold will grow on it.

The only thing I completely rearranged to my own tastes when I arrived was the kitchen, but that's because he had a bachelor kitchen (fridge holding nothing but mustard and beer, silverware drawer full of take-out plasticware packets) and there was no way I was going to try to work around that.

I have had some success with hiding things, but I think he'd really be upset if I actually got rid of anything without his permission. He doesn't have to know where his sixth-grade baseball card collection is, just as long as he knows that it's somewhere in the house. In case he needs it, you know. Maybe I just need to keep doing that? Or maybe it's time to just move a whole lot of stuff into the crawlspace in the attic. Then we don't have to look at it until we move out.

[larablue]

Originally Posted by Crayfish

Have you tried approaching it in terms of space rather than stuff?

That is, rather than, "Can I get rid of your eighth grade prom tuxedo?", the approach would be, "You have one and a half closets, I have half a closet. I need to have my own closet." Then you're not judging his stuff, you're just exercising your right to, well, _exist_ in your shared marital home, rather than being a grudgingly tolerated guest. You're married; it's not "his house" any more.

So if you're already rearranging his stuff, I'd say rearrange his stuff out of what will be your closet. Get some boxes, fold it all nice and neat and pretty, and put it... well, that's the problem. Is there any space at all? Basement, garage, anything?

If there isn't, then you might, yes, need a storage unit. It's a horrible waste of money, but I think that it's important to establish your territory in this house. Your closet. Your bureau. Your desk. A living room and bedroom and kitchen and bathrooms - all the shared territory - that you're both happy with. If he has a study or hobby room, _you_ have a study or hobby room. Inch by inch, you need to transform this place from being all his to being his, yours, and shared. And in the end, you should have _just as much_ territory as he does.

Because if he has even mild hoarding instincts, those instincts will drive him to make every last inch of territory his. You're going to need to take your territory, and you may very well need to do it without his cooperation. Gently, cheerfully, nicely, but without his cooperation. Because hoarders, even mild ones, never, ever cooperate in giving up their territory. You have to take it from them.

I'd say, start with the closet. Move his stuff out - cheerfully, nicely, respecting the stuff, folding it all pretty, keeping it clean - and make that closet all yours. And from then on, rule it with an iron fist - do not let him store anything of his in that closet. His is about to explode from hanger compression, and yours is so loosely filled that you could push all the shirts into a quarter of the space? Doesn't matter. That closet is _yours_. You let him put one shoe in there, and in two weeks the closet will be his again.

And then move on to the next space.

And if he doesn't like it, and feels that you're taking over "his" house? It may be time to sell and buy a house that you both feel like home in, and start the territory negotiation from scratch.

Crayfish

This exactly.
If you sense that it will end in tears and frustration and family disaster, then you should seek professional help.
A family therapist or such.

Good luck and much stamina!

[Crayfish]

Originally Posted by Comtessa

Or maybe it's time to just move a whole lot of stuff into the crawlspace in the attic. Then we don't have to look at it until we move out.

If you have a crawlspace, yep, go for it. Move enough up there to give yourself a closet and other needed territory.

Another thought that would add value to the house, instead of throwing it away, could be building a modest addition. But I would only consider that _after_ you have some success in holding territory of your own in this house. There's no point in building you a study, for example, only to have it become another one of his storerooms within six months.

And I don't know if you can be totally nonconfrontational when he's essentially giving you the message, "This house is mine. You can stay here if you don't change anything, but you certainly can't act like it's yours." That's the kind of thing that's going to result in a lot of built up resentment. It's not even good for _him_ to be allowed to be that selfish. He's married. You're his partner. He needs to act like it.

You need a home. Right now, he's telling you that this isn't your home.

Crayfish

[clutterwarrior]

I have read through this thread a few times but not added anything, and I am thinking it's because it has stirred up some negative feelings in me.

The main one being wondering why it took me so long to claim a section of the closet in our bedroom?

When I moved in here, this was DH's place and he already had all his stuff hanging in the main bedroom closet, so I have always hung my clothes in other rooms. Finally this year, 23 years and three children later, I asserted myself and moved his suits etc that he hardly ever wears into another cupboard, so that I could have space in our bedroom.

[zoebird]

powerful insights, isn't it clutterwarrior? i often see myself reflected in so many ways on here, it's pretty amazing.

[lolar2]

Yes, absolutely, use the attic crawlspace.