Excellent health of a mother doesn't guarantee/ increase her chances to have a healthy baby?

[olstep]

How true is this statement? Obviously, the better a mom takes care of herself the better start her babies will have. Is it a rule? How common are the exceptions?
Even though the birth is considered unpredictable, is it possible to predict the outcome for the baby with more or less small error? Or are there too many factors that need to be taken into consideration to make any grounded judgement?

[tessie]

I imagine it depends on what you mean by health problems in the baby.

[olstep]

Originally Posted by tessie

I imagine it depends on what you mean by health problems in the baby.

Mainly complications during the birth which would require medical intervention.

[Lousli]

As the mother of two premature babies (for unexplained reasons) I would have to say that of course the statement is not true. Honestly, there is nothing that guarantees a healthy baby. There are plenty of things that can be done to improve your chances, and plenty of things that can be done to really make you at much higher risk of having an unhealthy baby, but no guarantees.

The prematurity rate in the US is I think greater that 10% right now, and I think a good amount of those premature births are for unknown reasons. Plus you have to figure in things like genetic abnormalities, birth defects, birth trauma, etc.

I'm not trying to say that birth/pregnancy is dangerous or that the mother's health doesn't matter, just that guarantee pretty much means there is NO chance of something bad happening, and that just isn't realistic.

[CI Mama]

Birth comes with risks. Life comes with risks. Sometimes we do all the right things and terrible things happen. Sometimes we screw things up right and left and it all turns out OK anyway. That's just how it is.

There are certainly plenty of things that we can do to minimize risk, but there is always the element of luck/randomness/fate. If something unexpected and tragic happens, it's not much of a consolation that our risk for that event was very small. That's why we have religion and art and philosophy...to help us find the courage to live with the reality that there are a lot of things that we can't control, no matter how much we try.

Knowing that there are no guarantees, and that there is a big mystery around some tragic things that occur, gives me greater awe for the majority of times when things go just right (sometimes for equally mysterious reasons). That can be a source for deep, deep gratitude.

[MsBlack]

I like to say--the closest thing we get to a guarantee of a healthy pregnancy, birth and baby, is by pro-actively pursuing/attaining good health.

But no, no guarantees.

It's certainly better for mom and baby both if mom is healthy throughout pregnancy (and beyond). Certainly true that healthy babies are *usually* the outcome--by far. Can't give you any stats on that, though.

[liz-hippymom]

yeah. being healthy does not garuntee a good outcome. i have been an organic perfect pregnancy mama for all mine. but my last birth resulted in a dead baby.
i foster pregnant teens, and you would be amazed how perfect thier babies are when all they want to eat is chips and candy. it's a crap shoot

[sharr610]

Health is also a relative thing. I think people will define being "healthy" in lots of different ways. For some people thats avoiding fats and meats, for others its low stress and avoidance of chemicals in their diet. I think it just depends on so many things. And then there are the things that were done when WE were in the womb and children that have a huge impact on our endocrine system's health, but that we have little control over.

But yes, healthy mom should generally mean healthy mama...

[cappuccinosmom]

Complications happen.

Mom and baby can be in perfect health, and still have birth end in complications or tragedy.

[MyFillingQuiver]

For some people, it comes down to a perspective on these "big" things, as well.

For example, I believe I'm not ultimately in charge of what happens in my life. I'm supposed to be responsible, treating my body as a temple-while relying on God's wisdom to guide my choices, as well as His wisdom to choose for me the outcome He sees fit-as only He sees the big picture.

Others believe in some part of divinity or destiny or fate..some believe in karma, etc.

Therefore, in my belief and faith, I am charged with a great responsibility of doing all I can to protect the life growing within me through eating healthfully, living a healthful life, having faith and praying. I believe, ultimately, that no matter what choices I make, the fate of this child (and all my children, born or not) is in God's hands....but that doesn't excuse me from making educated, informed and healthful choices.

It's a great responsibility when we understand (and most here do) the gravity of what it means to be a parent. For me, it means I've been charged with the biggest responsibility in this world-to care for and raise a family. I do not turn this responsibility over to doctors (in the case of our day-to-day health and illnesses, and now I am turning this way with birth) unless God shows me that it's too great of a situation for me to handle.

Anyway, I know that was a big rant! I apologize! I am trying to be respectful of all aspects of birthing and how outcomes are affected by health...sometimes, as PP have said, we can do all things right, be healthy, plan for safety and a future for our babes, and have empty arms. This is true of m/c (which I've had) or birth loss. Sometimes, as we also know, the crack addicts, alcoholics and irresponsible take home a baby-or CPS does. Sometimes, these things just don't make sense. For some people, it's because we see that we don't have the entire big picture-though that doesn't offer the comfort, but it's an explanation for the unexplainable, some like me believe in.

[GuildJenn]

Of course. What???

I had a textbook perfect pregnancy with my first, ate really well, exercised and thought sweet thoughts. That certainly didn't stop the umbilical cord from getting around her neck. Nor does the health of a mother have to do with shoulder dystoxia, etc.

That's not to mention premature labour - which is often a mystery - incompetent cervix and all the rest of it.

Life just doesn't come with that kind of control. Of course we all want to do the best for our babies and deal with what we can control. But most things, we can't.

I think that's one of the most dangerously pervasive myths in the NFL community. Of course I believe in the benefits of NFL. But I don't believe it is a blanket protection against disease, disorders or accidents.

[expatmommy]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

I think that's one of the most dangerously pervasive myths in the NFL community. Of course I believe in the benefits of NFL. But I don't believe it is a blanket protection against disease, disorders or accidents.

And when the myth fails you, it is catastrophic.

A healthy mama offers no guarantees, not even that the mother will ultimately stay healthy over time. I was healthy & still my baby died. I had faith and an understanding of the bigger picture; didn't save my baby and still doesn't make any sense.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

I think that's one of the most dangerously pervasive myths in the NFL community. Of course I believe in the benefits of NFL. But I don't believe it is a blanket protection against disease, disorders or accidents.

I think the whole idea of a healthy baby being guaranteed is one of the most dangerously pervasive ones in the entire birth/pregnancy world - both NFL and mainstream. OBs (I'm talking in general - the culture) strongly imply, without ever quite saying it, that they can guarantee you a healthy baby if you just do whatever they tell you. I gather that a lot of midwives operate in a similar fashion. It's crap. It's complete and total crap. They can increase your odds, but there are no guarantees. There's no guarantee that I'm not going to get killed by someone running a stop light when I go to pick up my van this afternoon. Since we can't guarantee that crossing a street or having a bath will end in survival, the belief that we can guarantee good health in unborn baby is pure arrogance...unbelievable arrogance, really.

[olstep]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

There's no guarantee that I'm not going to get killed by someone running a stop light when I go to pick up my van this afternoon.

There is no guarantee in life in general. Period. We can do something to be better prepared, control some things but not everything depends on us..

What pps talking about is complications during birth. Childbirth does involve some risks. Nobody can guarantee a safe outcome. Still the chances of a safe outcome are much higher

The % of complications is not high in general. It is lower for uneventful pregnancies. Should be significantly lower for mom who have excellent health.
It is not only about eating organic or watching your fat. It is also what you genetically inherited, how much you can take without straining yourself. It is not only how you feel and how you look, it is what in your medical records - unbiased information.

Of course, it takes more than excellent health to have a safe birth outcome - educated mom, skillful practitioner, right/ safe environment, etc) . But providing other conditions are the same the chances that these moms will have complications during birth/ pp are much lower.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

I think the whole idea of a healthy baby being guaranteed is one of the most dangerously pervasive ones in the entire birth/pregnancy world - both NFL and mainstream. OBs (I'm talking in general - the culture) strongly imply, without ever quite saying it, that they can guarantee you a healthy baby if you just do whatever they tell you. I gather that a lot of midwives operate in a similar fashion. It's crap. It's complete and total crap. They can increase your odds, but there are no guarantees. There's no guarantee that I'm not going to get killed by someone running a stop light when I go to pick up my van this afternoon. Since we can't guarantee that crossing a street or having a bath will end in survival, the belief that we can guarantee good health in unborn baby is pure arrogance...unbelievable arrogance, really.

Absolutely agreed.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by olstep

Of course, it takes more than excellent health to have a safe birth outcome - educated mom, skillful practitioner, right/ safe environment, etc) . But providing other conditions are the same the chances that these moms will have complications during birth/ pp are much lower.

Um - WHICH complications are you talking about?

Because having a cord around the baby's neck, for example, has nothing - ZERO - to do with maternal health.

I'm really angry at your statement. Certainly there are conditions where diet, exercise, and health are a factor. But there are MANY MANY complications that have NOTHING to do with any of that.

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

Um - WHICH complications are you talking about?

Because having a cord around the baby's neck, for example, has nothing - ZERO - to do with maternal health.

I'm really angry at your statement. Certainly there are conditions where diet, exercise, and health are a factor. But there are MANY MANY complications that have NOTHING to do with any of that.

I'll preface by saying no, I don't think a really healthy mom guarantees a healthy baby or good outcome. But this made me wonder...is it possible that low amniotic fluid would make a baby more likely to get tangled in the cord? I have read that *sometimes* low amniotic fluid can be related to dehydration in mom. So perhaps that might account for *some* cases of cord around the neck?

And I know of at least one case here (well actually one mom, two births) where shoulder dystocia WAS related to the health of the mom, specifically an eating disorder during teenage years led to a very narrow pelvis.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, it seems to me it might be too blanket of a statement to say that there are some complications that absolutely don't have anything to do with mom's health in any case. Does that make sense?

[laohaire]

Strange, I've never heard this myth. I mean, of course we talk all the time about how important it is to eat healthy foods and exercise and avoid toxins and all that, but I've never heard anyone say there was anything like a guarantee that healthy mom equals complication-free birth. Which doesn't surprise me, of course, since it obviously isn't true.

Besides what others have also said, let's not forget that we don't even know what perfect health is. Almost everyone claims to be healthy - but it's not so. Even someone who everyone agrees might be healthy might be missing some essential nutrient or ingesting some toxin that nobody is really attuned to.

Let's also not forget genetics. I absolutely do believe that genetics are not entirely a crapshoot - it seems that the health of not just the parents but the grandparents, and probably so on, have an effect on the health of the genes. But sometimes things just "are." (Also you can have a very healthy mother but if her mother was unhealthy, that affects her baby - don't forget our eggs formed while we were still in our mothers' wombs). Anyway, if a healthy mother has a baby with certain conditions, that can lead to birth complications.

It is interesting to hear so many people say they've heard this myth, this is my first time (and I've obviously been on MDC for almost 5 years so I'm not completely new to the NFL community).

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

I'll preface by saying no, I don't think a really healthy mom guarantees a healthy baby or good outcome. But this made me wonder...is it possible that low amniotic fluid would make a baby more likely to get tangled in the cord? I have read that *sometimes* low amniotic fluid can be related to dehydration in mom. So perhaps that might account for *some* cases of cord around the neck?

And I know of at least one case here (well actually one mom, two births) where shoulder dystocia WAS related to the health of the mom, specifically an eating disorder during teenage years led to a very narrow pelvis.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, it seems to me it might be too blanket of a statement to say that there are some complications that absolutely don't have anything to do with mom's health in any case. Does that make sense?

No, it really doesn't make sense to say that.

There are lots of cord accidents that are NOT related to low amniotic fluid. Cord compression can relate to amniotic fluid levels, but a tight 2x nuchal cord is a problem regardless. (A recent review of the literature suggests that the deciding factor in nuchal cord deaths isn't the nuchal cord, but the amount of slack left in the cord.)

Just because low amniotic fluid can be a risk factor in some kinds of cord accidents it does not follow that you can avoid cord accidents by drinking a lot. Your risk might go down for the particular kind that occur with low amniotic fluid, but your risk will not go down for the random kind.

And even for other complications, I think people mistake lowering your risk factor, or the idea that sometimes a cause can be pinpointed, with protection. This is not the case. You can not have risk factors and still develop problems.

This kind of thinking is simply blame-the-victim thinking. Bad things happen even if you do everything '"right." Obviously women should try to be healthy and reduce their risks for certain things, but it's a very very very big leap to make from 'reduce risk factors' to 'achieve healthy baby.'

[CherryBomb]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

This kind of thinking is simply blame-the-victim thinking. Bad things happen even if you do everything '"right." Obviously women should try to be healthy and reduce their risks for certain things, but it's a very very very big leap to make from 'reduce risk factors' to 'achieve healthy baby.'

It is interesting to hear so many people say they've heard this myth, this is my first time

It's rare that I hear someone say outright "if you do xyz, you're guaranteed a healthy baby" but I hear it implied often. My first two were c/s and my second baby was born seriously brain damaged, so if it comes up, invariably I get a bunch of leading questions where the person is obviously trying to figure out what I did "wrong" that caused the "bad thing" to happen. The implication is that if I hadn't done xyz and had done abc instead, everything would have been fine. Some things might be avoidable. But often there's really nothing that could have been done to predict or prevent. You can look at "risk factors" but they really don't mean much other than "these people that had this problem usually had these things in common." I had no "risk factors" for ectopic pregnancy, but I still had one (and it very nearly killed me). You just can not predict with certainty who's going to have the massive PPH, who's going to abrupt, who's going to have a cord accident, etc.

Being healthy just means you're probably going to avoid complications associated with poor maternal health. It does not, in anyway, mean you're going to avoid complications in general.