Food pyramid

[Honey693]

What are everyone's thoughts on the food pyramid? After reading some replies in another thread I'm really interested to hear what people have to say.

[Magelet]

I think it's pretty crappy advice.

the biggest catagory is grains. now they say "whole" grains, but if it's whole grain bread with corn syrup, or whole grain rice crispies, or if the grain isn't fermented or soaked or sourdough to remove phytates, it's not suitable to be considered a healthy part of the diet (maybe fine as a treat). And grains shouldn't be making the bulk of your diet.

Veggies, they say to eat a lot of, which I think is fine. but they don't mention you have to eat your veggies with fat to absorb some of the most important nutrients. and what are beans doing under veggies AND under beans? avoid the dirty dozen or buy organic. buy local when you can.

fruit. yikes. it's almost as big as veggies. I admit, it has nutritional benefits, BUT it's biggest benefit, imo is as a sweet treat (not a big part of the diet) and for the vit. c (cause people eat lots of raw fruit but not raw veggies). most of the nutrients in fruit you can get from veggies, without the sugar. fresh, frozen, dried, that's fine. canned? not worth ingesting. fruit juice should be drunk rarely. and not by young children. avoid the dirty dozen or buy organic, buy local when it's in season.

fats. their advice on fats is completely backwards. instead of getting your (limited) fat from veggie oils, nuts, and fish, and limiting solid fats like butter, margerine, shortening or lard (why are these lumped together?), it is healthier to eat medium-generous amounts of grass-fed butter, unhydrogentated lard from healthy pigs, eggs, other dairy-fat, tallow, chicken fat, and also coconut oil and olive oil. fish and nuts are a fine source as well. veggie oils, margerine, shortening, hydrogenated fats, should not be consumed, ever ideally, or at least, not as a regular part of the diet. (I mean, eating fried chicken at your grandma's who uses corn oil won't kill you once in a while, but making fried chicken in corn oil weekly? bad.)

milk. again, backwards. if you consume milk, it needs to be whole fat (to digest the milk and absorb the fat soluble nutrients which are the primary nutrients in milk), and unhomogenized. it should be grass-fed, though I think non-homogenized grain fed milk if it is hormone free could occasionally be healthy. worth drinking every night with dinner for your kids? probably not. ideally raw, but low temp pasturization is fine. cultured dairy such as buttermilk, cheese, cultured butter, yogurt, kefir, etc are more digestable than regular milk and should be a part of the diet if you drink milk, probably a bigger part than straight milk. If you can't, or don't choose to consume milk, that's fine. protein, vit. a, d, calcium can be found other sources. pay attention to those sources, and include them, but no need to fret.

meat and beans. this should also include eggs, imo. eat fattier meat, not leaner meat. it will fill you up faster, it is better for your health, and it tastes better. grass-fed/pastured is best/really important. eggs are a great source of nutrition, and cheap, even good quality pastured eggs. if it's fried in good fats, frying meat is fine, as is stir frying. don't bake/grill/broil it without some fat, it will be tasteless too. beans require being served with grains AND fat AND a small amount of animal protein (meat, egg, dairy, or fish) for best digestion. (they also need acid and salt to taste good) fish, beans, nuts and peas are good sources of protein too.

The pyramid doesn't mention several micro-nutrients that are rare in the modern diet, and very important, and even some macro. most americans are vit. d deficient, and it's hugely important. most people eat next to no true iodine (they eat iodide in salt, which is not quite the same, and not as good, possibly even harmful). several others.

it also doesn't address sugars: they should be eaten rarely, and when they are, in unrefined forms such as honey, maple syrup, palm sugar, date sugar, fruit, etc.

or processed foods: should not be a regular part of the diet, ok as a treat, but even "in moderation" is miles too much.

that's my take on the food pyramid. Basically, it's a lie, fed to you by the gov't (to give it authority) by food lobbyists (who's employers stand to make a lot of money if you keep eating the way they want. lots of pastured meat bought directly from the farmer doesn't benefit tyson. eating only a little grains and no processed food doesn't benefit monsanto or hain celestial. they're the ones with the big bucks to spend hiring "nutritional experts" to convince the gov't that what their corportations want is what is healthy.)

[VeezieTG]

Magelet where's the like button?

[cristeen]

Beautifully said, Magelet.

[staceychev]

Seriously, Magelet. Bravo!

[Holiztic]

I'm on board, too, Magelet!

[Drummer's Wife]

What Magelet said. I think the grains is one of the biggest problems I have. No one needs all that bread/grains. It's really not healthy, and it certainly shouldn't be used to fill you up over more nutrient dense food. Grains should be ate sparingly (I'm on a low-carb, gluten-free diet right now - so I really notice how unnecssary and unhealthy they can be - and addicting!).

[Purple Sage]

Another ditto to Magelet!

[Purple Sage]

Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife

I think the grains is one of the biggest problems I have. No one needs all that bread/grains. It's really not healthy, and it certainly shouldn't be used to fill you up over more nutrient dense food. Grains should be ate sparingly (I'm on a low-carb, gluten-free diet right now - so I really notice how unnecssary and unhealthy they can be - and addicting!).

[CherryBomb]

I hate the food pyramid, for most of the reasons Magelet mentioned. My big thing is fats and oils- tiny amounts? No! You should be eating lots of good fats, coconut oil, olive oil, butter, etc.

[Holiztic]

I also want to add that we are trying to eat seasonally in an Ayurvedic way, so our personal "food pyramid" would change drastically by season. In winter, meats and fats would be the base with starches (root veggies mostly, some grains) next up then veggies, and very little fruit. In Spring the meats would be lighter--fish and poultry (still with some fat) and would be even in volume with spring veggies/greens, and fruit (mostly dried) would be bigger than in winter--but not huge, and grains would still be moderate. Then in summer- fruits and veggies would overtake meats and fats with grains in the middle somewhere. (Fall, BTW, is a a shifting mix of summer and winter--so Sept looks like August, October looks like a blend, and November looks like winter).

Grains would never be our base and are always whole (and alone--not manufactured with other ingredients) and properly prepared (soaked/sprouted/soured).

We couldn't draw a single food pyramid (or any other shape) for our household as it changes by the season--the way it should be!! But there are no seasons for the SAD, so you'll never see a seasonal food pyramid!

[tinybutterfly]

I ignore it. I didn't like it when it first came out. I still don't like it.

I still do some modified version of the three square meals a day, but I don't think dairy is necessary. I include some because we like it, but we've done dairy-free before and we were fine.

A square meal was like protein, veg, starch, dairy I think. I learned it in 7th grade home-ec. It's been a long time...so I may not be remembering correctly.

My goal is 2 fruits and 3 veg servings a day. Not terrific I guess, but something to shoot for. Some protein. A little dairy. 3 to 4 whole grain servings.

P.S. I am fine with snacks or grazing. It's more of a loose guideline kind of thing.

[Honey693]

The only part of it I have a problem with is the fats and grains. The amount of grains they tell you to eat is just huge. And they don't specify what good grains are enough imo. Whole grain sugar cereal is not a good whole grain for daily consumption, I don't care if it's whole grain. And there is not enough good fat in it either.

[JMJ]

I'm not a fan for the reasons already mentioned and because it doesn't really meet all of your micronutrient needs. You still would need to take a multivitamin every day just in case because they don't think you'll be getting enough nutrients.

That said, my husband is a fan (I'm working on convincing him otherwise). He has actually gone on mypyramid.gov and used the USDA's estimates for calories for foods, excercises the equivalent of an hour of vigorous exercise a day, and monitors his weight loss, adjusting his extra calories (beyond the food groups) so that he's losing a pound or a pound and a half a week or so with a few hiccoughs, and he's lost over 50 lbs in a little over a year and is nearing his weight loss goal. I'm not putting too much pressure on him to change much at least until he meets his goal. In the meantime, I've convinced him to use many of his flex calories on whole milk and cheese, butter, flaxseed (which was actually his idea), butter, and fatty fish and meats.

He likes it because he still gets to have Mt. Dew and ice cream almost every day, pie regularly, and Wendy's when he wants to. Maybe it (or something similar) is the best diet for him. He has a hard time listening to his leptin receptors and follows external cues better. He likes to eat when he's stressed, and he likes his comfort foods and doesn't want to give them up, but counting calories helps him keep from going overboard. One time, his mom was planning on leaving after dinner, and we wanted to spend the time with her, so he kept serving himself more food and then suggested desert just to keep the meal lasting longer. Knowing about how many extra calories he had consumed helped him to know how much extra excercise he would need to do to stay on track.

He thinks it's a great omnivore diet plan (as long as you eat well prepared whole grains, organic produce, whole full-fat foods, good quality animal products, use fats for most of the flex calories, and exercise a whole lot so he's got more flex calories). With how active he is, he's eating over 3000 calories a day, and he can probably handle more grains and empty calories than most people because he is still eating enough nutrient-rich foods to meet his nutrient needs.

If the government ever wanted to run commercials for their diet plan, they'd probably want to talk to my husband. He's the only person I've ever heard of who has actually put together a diet plan based on their recommendations (quantitative, not qualitative like "lean meats," low-fat dairy," etc) and had it really work. I really can't argue with the fact that my husband is healthy and quite attractive in the new bod... but I do cringe every time somebody compliments him on his new physique, and he proudly proclaims, "Yeah, I just used the government diet plan, and it worked great!"

[daisymommy]

Bookmarking that one to pass on to friends! Just watch their eyes bug out

[blueridgewoman]

TOTALLY agree with Maglet. I do, however, admit that my healthy eating downfall is that I LOVE canned peaches (um, at least I eat the ones canned in juice ).

[artemis33]

Right on Magelet! I agree completely.

[mamadelbosque]

I'm not a huge fan of it, but I personally don't agree that grains are 'bad' unless sprouted/fermented, nor that fruit is in any way shape or form 'bad' just because it has a lot of sugar, nor that juice/canned fruit is like, the devil. I try to only buy full-fat dairy products and have a herd sahre for milk & butter, but I don't think that all non-raw dairy is bad, but whatever.

I guess it just boils down to not being nearly as dogmatic as a lot of folks around MDC. We eat cereal, ww bread, pb & j, mac'n cheese, pasta, canned peaches & pineapple, lots of other various fruits, not always organic (cause' quite frankly many are simply not available around here, and those that are often look awful). But, whatever.

[Magelet]

I'm not a huge fan of it, but I personally don't agree that grains are 'bad' unless sprouted/fermented, nor that fruit is in any way shape or form 'bad' just because it has a lot of sugar, nor that juice/canned fruit is like, the devil. I try to only buy full-fat dairy products and have a herd sahre for milk & butter, but I don't think that all non-raw dairy is bad, but whatever.

I guess it just boils down to not being nearly as dogmatic as a lot of folks around MDC. We eat cereal, ww bread, pb & j, mac'n cheese, pasta, canned peaches & pineapple, lots of other various fruits, not always organic (cause' quite frankly many are simply not available around here, and those that are often look awful). But, whatever.

In terms of actual diet, I agree to an extent mamadelbrusque. But the food pyramid is to me, a sort of ideal, and so I was responding to what a better (though still not ideal) role model/ideal thing would be. Improving it somewhat but not hugely drastically. We do eat some non-sprouted/fermented whole grains and even a small amount of white flour though I'm trying to cut it out more. I still think sprouted/soaked/fermented is much much better, and what to strive for. We do eat whole wheat pasta, and white flour challah though.

We drink juice on shabbat, but I wouldn't have it be a part of my "diet" in the sense that I wouldn't rely on it for calories, vitamins, or other nutrients, because of the sugar content, but as a treat. I don't eat a lot of raw dairy, because it's too expensive. I do eat exclusively non-homogenized, at least mostly grass-fed, low temp pasturized dairy (ok, except for cheese, I eat any real cheese). Again, raw dairy is the ideal, but I think low temp pasturized but otherwise good dairy is fine. I've never even tried raw butter because it's too expensive.

We eat whole wheat pasta, we eat fruit (but as a treat, though in summer, that might mean 5 apricots, 3 plums, several handfuls of cherries, etc, not nessicarily in small amounts, yet not a relied upon part of the diet which makes up 1/4-1/5 of the bulk of your diet.) We mostly only buy organic for the dirty dozen, or if it's similar priced.

[Drummer's Wife]

Oh, yes - by no means is our diet perfect and look like Magelet's previous reply. But I do think that what she said was by far more ideal than the USDA's current recommendations.