Am I overreacting? :( Really worried... Update in Post #22.

[Pariah]

I will preface this with the fact that I do have anxiety and I've had a long, really exhausting week. Those probably can contribute to my worrying right now.

My son went with his dad on Sunday night. As usual in the days leading up to that, his dad and I argued, it was unclear as to whether or not he was actually showing up for the visitation, all of which is common. I didn't know he was coming until I received a text late on Sunday where he told me he was on his way. He always changes plans at the last second.

He mentioned recently that he moved out of his parents' house. He's not employed and it is very possible that he was kicked out and didn't voluntarily leave. I begged him for days for the new address so I could know where our son would be staying during the visit, as well as a landline number for the house. I finally got the address out of him, but not the landline number.

When our son is visiting his dad, I call and say goodnight every night. I called Monday night, no answer so I just left a message. Tuesday night, my ex answered and said our son already fell asleep. So I called earlier on Wednesday and his cell said that the subscriber wasn't able to take calls and to try again later. As of this morning, his phone still says that. I'm not sure if he didn't pay the bill or what. I noticed he was wearing a Bluetooth thing when he came to pick up our son, so he does have a phone.

I've tried calling his parents' house twice, and left a message once. They hate me, I hate them, so of course they didn't answer or return my call even though my contact was out of concern for my son. I knew that would happen, but I have to check on him so I sucked it up and called even though I dreaded it.

My son is supposed to be brought home tomorrow night, but I don't know when exactly since I can't get ahold of his dad.

I just have a bad feeling. My ex is NOT at all trustworthy and recently talked about how he isn't allowed "enough time" with our son. That isn't true at all...he skips scheduled visits with no notice all the time. He never even calls our son to say hi to him. My ex will lie about everything and anything, big or small. Even his parents admit that he has a HUGE dishonesty issue. That combined with how he's really hostile and pretty much abusive every time we talk, the complaints of not having enough time with our son, etc. really makes me worry that he's trying to pull something where he cuts off contact, maybe doesn't bring him back on the day we agreed, or worse. You just never know with him. He's very selfish, impulsive, and cannot be trusted at all.

I was trying not to worry and just focus on the fact that he probably just didn't pay his bill, but I've had that dreadful feeling in my stomach since earlier this morning. I hope this is just my mama instinct making me overract, but I am so worried.

I don't know if I'm looking for advice or what...I just want my baby back home with me now so I know he is safe. My sister thinks this is really sketchy of him, and my therapist gave me this ominous warning last week to not let my son go on this visit. My ex will call the cops on me again if I put up a fight, so I said the visit was okay (even though the cop sided with me and didn't force me to allow our son to go when he called them the first time).

[MissLotus]

Has visitation been settled in court - or is it legal on paper? If his threats about cops hold no water, why let him take your child? I would not, unless you have something in writing, with pick-up and RETURN times stipulated. Also, I think you said you got the address? Although it sure doesn't sound like he'd welcome a visit, can you drive by to see if his car's in the driveway?

And seriously, if visitation is not in writing, don't let him do it anymore!

[cycle]

Originally Posted by MissLotus

Has visitation been settled in court - or is it legal on paper? If his threats about cops hold no water, why let him take your child? I would not, unless you have something in writing, with pick-up and RETURN times stipulated. Also, I think you said you got the address? Although it sure doesn't sound like he'd welcome a visit, can you drive by to see if his car's in the driveway?

And seriously, if visitation is not in writing, don't let him do it anymore!

ITA. I would be driving by and going to his parents house. Your son is young going by your sig, if he isn't back by 6:00 I would call the police.

[doubledutch]

i think it is 100% appropriate to go to his house and knock on his door to check on your child considering the lack of phone contact. that is reasonable for your own peace of mind. i don't care if it's only one more day, i would go. if you think your ex would blow up about you coming to check on your son, then say you are there because you need to be able to plan your schedule for tomorrow and therefore need to know when your son is coming home.

[*MamaJen*]

That sounds awful. If your ex was a normal person, it would be one thing. But given what you know about him, I would be worried and I think I would drive by.
Also, if you don't already have a custody agreement legally in place, that should be number one on your to-do list, like, today.

ETA: Just saw the thread where you son came home saying that daddy said he should take him away. Yikes.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

I would definitely at least drive by and see if his car is at that address. Of course, if it looks like a bogus address, I'd drive straight to the police station. And I know you child is young, but have you considered getting HIM a child's cell phone and teaching him how to call you or answer your call? I think this might be one of those special situations where a cell phone for a really young child makes a ton of sense.

[beckyand3littlemonsters]

[Pariah]

Quickly from my phone...

Ex and his parents live five hours away out of state. I filed for custody and everyhing back in Feb, still waitig for court date.

[cycle]

Originally Posted by Pariah

Quickly from my phone...

Ex and his parents live five hours away out of state. I filed for custody and everyhing back in Feb, still waitig for court date.

I would call the police in their town and explain the situation and ask them to go to first your ex's then his parent's if he can't be found.

So as of now there is no custody order? If there isn't you may not get help from the police unfortunately outside of a well visit check at the addresses.

[Minxie]

Originally Posted by cycle

I would call the police in their town and explain the situation and ask them to go to first your ex's then his parent's if he can't be found.

So as of now there is no custody order? If there isn't you may not get help from the police unfortunately outside of a well visit check at the addresses.

I would totally call the police in his town and ask for a welfare check based on the backstory. Don't be panicked or hysterical but do explain the lack of contact, etc.

My mom used to do that to me as an adult if it had been too long since we talked to one another. The police are really good about doing stuff like that. Also I would document this for the future.

[VocalMinority]

Originally Posted by Pariah

my therapist gave me this ominous warning last week to not let my son go on this visit. My ex will call the cops on me again if I put up a fight, so I said the visit was okay (even though the cop sided with me and didn't force me to allow our son to go when he called them the first time).

#1- Your therapist advised you to ignore a court order for visitation? Or is there no court order? There is, at least, a precedent. I assume your therapist's only source of information is you? It sounds irresponsible for him/her to advise you to withhold visitation based on a feeling.

#2- Your ex may have resisted giving you his new address because he fears you using it against him, that he's been kicked out of his previous residence, is scrambling to find a new place to stay - and evidently he doesn't have much money, so you might not approve of the place. These are not unfounded concerns on his part, since you HAVE BEEN, in fact, tempted to deny his visitation based on his living arrangements being in flux. Plus, you have a therapist supporting you in doing that!

#3- Do not misunderstand the police's actions. If you have custody - or even if there is no court order (in which case, police will err on the side of assuming Mom is the CP) - the police CANNOT force you to turn over your child for a visit - even if it's court-ordered. (If they DO have that authority, it is a very rare thing and I'd like to know where you live!) In MOST places in the US, police are only instructed/authorized to enforce custody orders on behalf of the CP; and even when they witness a CP denying lawful, court-ordered visitation, they are only able to advise the NCP to take the CP back to court. They may not forcibly remove the child from the CP's care. So do not feel like the police have agreed with you and thus strengthened your argument that your ex doesn't deserve visitation.

#4- How much visitation does your ex get? WHY does he miss it sometimes? Has it conflicted with his work schedule at times, or efforts he's making to find a new job, or piece work that he's picking up here and there to make ends meet? Does he have transportation issues? Even though you hate him - even though he may have given you good reason - he may very well love your child more than anything and legitimately feel resentful about not spending enough time with him. Especially if you have a history of spontaneously and unilaterally denying his visitation and the cops have a history of not enforcing his custodial orders, when he thought they would help him! How would YOU feel, having your son less than half the time and knowing that despite the court orders, you are still at the mercy of your ex, as to whether or not you get to see your kid?

#5- Especially if his life is in flux right now and he's struggling to pay his bills, it may be perfectly understandable that he's having trouble keeping up the usual phone contact, during this visit. You usually get to talk to your son every day when he's with your ex, so clearly this is not a pervasive problem and your ex is not usually motivated to block contact between you and the child.

It IS upsetting to be away from the child and not feel in control. Don't you imagine your ex feels the same way, when the child's with you? You need to wait and see if he brings the child back when he's supposed to. Only if he doesn't should you involve the police. You haven't said anything which suggests to me a valid, reasonable threat to your child. Mainly, you've said things which suggest you have a lot of negative feelings toward your ex; you're surrounded by people who bolster those feelings; and you don't seem to see much value or importance in your child's time with his father. Try to rise above those feelings and evaluate more objectively what you're really afraid of.

[VocalMinority]

Originally Posted by Minxie

I would totally call the police in his town and ask for a welfare check based on the backstory. Don't be panicked or hysterical but do explain the lack of contact, etc.

My mom used to do that to me as an adult if it had been too long since we talked to one another. The police are really good about doing stuff like that. Also I would document this for the future.

Keep in mind it's upsetting to kids in a divorce - who know there's conflict between their parents - to have police show up at the door. This should not be done just because Mom is upset about being away from the child and doesn't like/trust the Dad. There should be a good reason. Dad DID tell her where he's staying. There's evidence his phone may have been turned off for non-payment and this is an unusual situation. The fact that he gripes about wanting more time with his child could simply mean that he loves his child. She does not say he's threatened to abduct him, nor that he has any history of doing so. On the contrary, SHE has a history of denying HIS parenting time with the child.

[VocalMinority]

Originally Posted by Pariah

Quickly from my phone...

Ex and his parents live five hours away out of state. I filed for custody and everyhing back in Feb, still waitig for court date.

Goodness! And you can't give this man a little credit for the fact that missed visits may have something to do with the difficulty of getting there to exercise them, rather than just not caring about seeing his kid!?

[cycle]

Originally Posted by Jeannine

Goodness! And you can't give this man a little credit for the fact that missed visits may have something to do with the difficulty of getting there to exercise them, rather than just not caring about seeing his kid!?

Oh please, ask most of the mothers you know how much of a difficulty or roadblock it would be to have to drive five hours to see their child if that was their visitation time. I guarantee they would be at every visitation.

It is inexcusable for a NCP to be so inconsistent with visitation and to wait until he is on his way to finally say he is exercising his visitation. It is inexcusable for a NCP, expecially under these circumstances, to be unreachable by the CP, particularly with a child so young. Imagine how her child is feeling being gone from her for so many days and unable to talk to her. Talk about traumatic. Her ex is playing games at the expense of their child. She has every right and as this child's mother, responsibility, to have a welfare check done. He was supposed to be home Friday evening. She should be worried about her child given what is inconsistent and unstable history with her ex.

This isn't attack of the dads over here, do some research outside of this forum. Yes, there are a lot of Dads who stay involved, but many more who don't and who pull the behavior seen over and over in this forum. This is just a small snippet of what is actually a larger picture of society. Small percentage of amicable situations with involved fathers, big occurrence of deadbeats who use their kids to manipulate and abuse their ex or who spend their lives trying not to pay child support and unfortunately an even smaller percentage of fathers who want custody of their kids for reasons other than not paying child support. I know there are many great dads, in fact I know many wonderful, involved dads. The reality is there are more situations like the OPs.

[Pariah]

Wow, so many incorrect assumptions made here, I don't even know where to start...WOW.

How much visitation does your ex get? WHY does he miss it sometimes? Has it conflicted with his work schedule at times, or efforts he's making to find a new job, or piece work that he's picking up here and there to make ends meet? Does he have transportation issues? Even though you hate him - even though he may have given you good reason - he may very well love your child more than anything and legitimately feel resentful about not spending enough time with him. Especially if you have a history of spontaneously and unilaterally denying his visitation and the cops have a history of not enforcing his custodial orders, when he thought they would help him! How would YOU feel, having your son less than half the time and knowing that despite the court orders, you are still at the mercy of your ex, as to whether or not you get to see your kid?

I didn't allow my ex to take our son ONCE and that ONE TIME he called the cops. Like I said, he has a history of changing plans at the last second and then getting angry at me when I don't drop everything I'm doing to comply with his demands. That ONE TIME, he showed up totally at random. I had no idea he was going to be waiting outside of my apartment when I came home from work and demand to take our son. Do you REALLY think I should give in and say, "Oh, sure! You gave me no warning, didn't even show up on the day you're normally supposed to according to our verbal agreement on a schedule, and demand that I even miss work to comply with your request! SURE, of course I'll agree!"

NO. I HIGHLY doubt that any mom here would find that to be acceptable behavior. ESPECIALLY when the ex and I have REPEATED hashed it out about why his tendency to make plans at the absolute last second, then scream at me and call me every name in the book if I'm unable to fulfill his demands, is totally unacceptable.

Goodness! And you can't give this man a little credit for the fact that missed visits may have something to do with the difficulty of getting there to exercise them, rather than just not caring about seeing his kid!?

Again, assumptions...I was upset and very busy when I typed this out last night and didn't expect to have to post my life story. He has no problem getting to this area to visit friends, especially ones that have his drug(s) of choice. However, when it comes to coming to this area to see his SON, it becomes a matter of "having no money."

Dad DID tell her where he's staying. There's evidence his phone may have been turned off for non-payment and this is an unusual situation.

He does have a house phone at this place, as well as at his parents' house which is very close by. He has my work number, cell number, my sister's cell number, my mom's cell number, my personal email, work email, Facebook...there's no reason why he can't use his house phone or the phone at his parents' or a friend's house to call ONE of those numbers ONCE to say, "Hey, missed my cell payment but everything's fine." I've had my own cell turned off, and I called him from my sister's phone and let him know.

Also, he provided me with the address after days of begging him for it, via text message and over the phone. He's withheld basic info like this before, dragging things out for weeks.

you don't seem to see much value or importance in your child's time with his father. Try to rise above those feelings and evaluate more objectively what you're really afraid of.

Well, considering that my son comes home looking and smelling like he hasn't had a bath once during the whole visit, friends have confirmed that he is put in front of the tv and has been fed only cups of yogurt when he says he's hungry, and the ex ADMITS that he "probably doesn't supervise him as well as he should" and when we were together would fall asleep while watching our son while I ran errands, and he has ADMITTED to drug use in front of our son which other friends have came to me out of concern about, I'm afraid of the things that I DON'T see and that AREN'T admitted to me.

Has it conflicted with his work schedule at times, or efforts he's making to find a new job, or piece work that he's picking up here and there to make ends meet? Does he have transportation issues?

He rarely has a work schedule to start with. We were together nearly seven years, his longest stretch of employment was maybe 3-4 months. That's being generous. Also, the jobs that he DID get, he only got because I was the one who prepared his resume, wrote cover letters, spent hours a day on job sites, SENT all the resumes out, bought him interview clothes, ironed them, woke him up on time, printed directions for him, and told him what the interview was for!

His parents have admitted (after we got married, of course...LOTS of info came out after the fact...) that he's NEVER been able to keep a job, EVER.

And all of this because he VOLUNTARILY WOULD NOT do those things. He preferred to get high and play video games. His parents have held his hand, made excuses for him, and babied him his entire life, so it is no surprise that this has followed him into adulthood.

Shall we discuss college? We went to school together, take a wild guess who did most of his work in order to be sure he passes his classes...in addition to doing all of her own work...

that he's been kicked out of his previous residence, is scrambling to find a new place to stay

His previous residence was his parents' house and -- shocker -- apparently they're getting sick of their nearly 30 year old son expecting to show up at their house, have all of his bills paid by them, and live there rent-free. Do you blame them? Do you really think that a grown man should have to rely on his parents fully for support? He COULD get a job in this area, where all of his friends and other family live, and get a very affordable apartment. I've even OFFERED to help him do this! But why would he, when he can sit, collecting unemployment mind you, and have all his expenses taken care of (until now, I guess!), living in a brand new, beautiful custom built house?

[Pariah]

The fact that he gripes about wanting more time with his child could simply mean that he loves his child.

This is a very recent gripe. Last summer, he was ready to terminate his rights until it was mentioned to his parents who freaked out because of how bad it would look to their church friends.

Oh, which reminds me...once recently when I told my son that he was going to see his dad, he started crying about going to "the scary church" that "made him cry, then grandpa told daddy to take me home because I was scared." I've been to this church before...it is totally against my values, racist, gay-bashing, with people rolling around on the floor speaking in tongues. The children's nursery is not at all well supervised...whenever I took my son there, the "supervisors" sat there with their backs turned to the kids and gossiped while I watched all the kids, incredulous that these women were being paid to ignore kids having spills here and there, the occasional spat over a toy, etc. My ex recently said that he doesn't care if I don't like the church, he wants to take our son...but he spent years calling his parents crazy and a lot of other nastier things for going to that same church, calling it a cult and saying they were being brainwashed.

[2xand2y]

Your DS is supposed to come home tonight, right? I'm feeling very anxious for you and hoping that everything is fine. ((hugs))

[*MamaJen*]

Please keep us posted. I'm concerned for you.

[*MamaJen*]

Originally Posted by Jeannine

She does not say he's threatened to abduct him, nor that he has any history of doing so. On the contrary, SHE has a history of denying HIS parenting time with the child.

Actually, if you knew her back story, he does have a history of threatening to abduct her child.
I understand that you're on the other side of this situation, in that your husband is the good parent and his ex is the bad one. I think I'm speaking for all of of when I say this is the minority situation.
There are great dads out there. I really truly believe that. In many ways, I consider DS's father to be a good dad, because he loves DS and is very involved in his life. This is overlooking the fact that he's an active alcoholic and hasn't paid any child support ever. He's a weak person, but he's not a mean or bad person. So while I wish he could conquer his addiction, I still am glad that he wants to be in his son's life and I actively facilitate visitation as much as he wants to see him.
There are mamas on this board who have great exes, and they work amicably together in the best interest of their kids.
But there are so. many. really. bad dads out there that are the fathers to the children of the women on this board. I don't think you understand just how bad it is for so many women here. There are the guys that were physically violent to the mothers and or the children, there are the guys that never stopped doing all kinds of hard drugs after the baby came, there are the deadbeat guys that let their partners support them when they were together and then refuse to accept any financial responsibility after the split. There are the controlling guys who were verbally and emotionally abusive during the break-up and use their children in horrible manipulative ways to hurt the mother. There are the guys who skip visits for six months because they're too busy doing drugs and then come back and file for 50-50 custody to try to get out of paying child support. Most of these guys still have a right to their children; many choose not to exercise it. Whether or not the kids would be better of with or without that kind of dad in their life is up for debate.
This is a fact. There are bad parents of both genders out there. But in general, the more common scenario is for the mother to step up and do what it takes to care for her child. And I believe that the mothers who hang around on MDC are, in general, really wonderful and devoted mothers, even if they made a bad choice in the father of their child.
I understand that you're coming from a certain perspective. But please, you can't come on this board and make assumptions when you don't know the back story. It's incredibly hurtful to mothers who have already been through so much.

[Pariah]

I WISH my ex was a responsible father. I really, truly do. I wouldn't have married him in the first place if that weren't the case. I tried to do everything in this split to make things work. I wanted to avoid court/legal stuff as much as humanly possible despite his previous abuse/neglect toward me and our son. I've given him chance after chance after chance to work with me on visitation, child support, etc. for the past year and a half. I cannot and will not let him walk all over me...it isn't good for me or my son. I already let him walk all over me enough when he was violent, put holes in the walls, cheated on me, left me alone for hours immediately after the midwives left after the homebirth of our son, etc etc...this relationship was so destructive and abusive that I spent some periods suicidal.

But please, you can't come on this board and make assumptions when you don't know the back story. It's incredibly hurtful to mothers who have already been through so much.

It really is. I hate to admit something said by a stranger on the internet is upsetting, but it really can be.