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NOT wanting to vaccinate, but needing support

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
Okay moms I need help,
I just came from a new Peds appointment with my daughter (well care check and Dr. Interview). I made the decision to stop vaccinating my kids last year. Unfortunately my son had all shots up to 18 months and my daughter up to 3 mo. before I started researching on my own and becoming very sad about what I've found out. I've done many, many, many hours, months, a full year of research. Read many books, talked to many people, and researched online. My last peds kicked my kids out of her practice because she found out I am choosing not to vaccinate ( I have no problem with that), and was already in search of a new ped. That is the one I went to today. He came highly recommended and was referred to me as a peditrician who would support my decision not to vaccinate. That was not the case, he spent the whole time trying to scare me and saying he disagreed. Saying that the law was on my side right now, but at the same time seeming to be a little bit threating. He used so many of the scare tactics I've heard and even a few that were new to me and almost comical. He said he had never heard of the VAERS website about reporting vaccine reactions (Hugely surprised me) He used the whole, you can't trust the internet, TV or books you read it's full of lies about vaccines. I was very respectful, but I really didn't budge on my questioning, I WANT ANSWERS!!!! I asked him to please give me any information he had that would show short or long term studies or any kind of studies, I asked him to suggest any reading material to teach me about what he was saying (I am very open to reading any and all of it, so that I can make an informed decision) He couldn't suggest anything, and I asked him at least three times. He told of 3 babies in his office who died of whooping cough who were not vaccinated, he basically told me the chicken pox shot was for money and convience so parents wouldn't have to take off work for 3 weeks, and when asked about the Hep B, he started to agree with me and then said it gave a life time immunity to my kids ever getting Heb B if they have been vaccinated against it. He said Small pox was elimnated due to vaccination, and so was Polio in the U.S. When I asked him why do they still vaccinate against Polio if it's been erradicated here, he said because of people from foreign countries. All the research I've done shows that vaccines did not erradicate anything, that sanitation, better diet has more to do with it. I asked about the mercury, aluminum (known neurotoxins), and other things they put into vaccines and he told me there is more mercury in a can of tuna fish than in shots ( I find that hard to believe), but I don't really care, my kids don't get fed tuna fish, or really any fish. If it is true it seems to me that is just passing the buck or blame. I asked about all the chronic illnesses that kids seem to be getting earlier and worse and he said it is the environment, blamed it on the air we breath and the foods we eat, even blamed it on organic fruits and vegs, no possible chance it could partially be because of the vaccines. He would admit that there is a one in gazillion chance of a severe reaction, AKA (DEATH) to vaccinations. And gave me the sorry if it's your kid speech. From studying the VAERS website I know that it is many more than one in a gazillion chance, but he's never heard of the CDC website for reporting vaccine reactions. I am so frustrated, and to the point of tears!!!!! I have a four year old, a 17 month old and a new baby due in October and I would just like to find a pediatrician or doctor who will see my kids and not try to coerce me, force me, or treat me like crap and threaten me with turning me in and taking my kids away. Is that even possible? What do other mom's do who have brand new babies who choose not to vaccinate? Do they just not take them to a doctor at all. Do they go to the emergency room if their baby is sick and forgo the pediatrician altogether? What are my choices, I want a doctor I trust to treat my kids if they are sick, if need be, but I don't want a doctor who will only see me because the law is on my side. Are there ANY peditricians out there in the state of Texas who will support a parent in not vaccinating their child? In trying natural means to keep them healthy and keep their natural immune system functioning naturally and not with vaccines? Are there any parents who just do not take their kids to peditricians and if so what do you do when you are worried about them when they are sick? Especially if it's a newborn. Please any help would be so appreciated. Can anyone point me to studies that anyone has found to show any positive attributes to vaccines, that was done by an impartial researcher, not the CDC, FDA, or Pharm companies. I can't seem to find anything, only the typical trust me I'm a doctor and because I say so. This Pediatrician also said the AA of pediatrics has no ties to CDC, or any other link to vaccines that would make them biased, is this true? It seems just by virture of their practice being mostly well child visits with vaccines being a big part of their income that could possibly make them a little biased?
post #2 of 15
I've had to switch peds several times. I never mention anything about vax'ing until we are there. If they ask, I just say we are delaying, we have a religious exep. and end the conversation. It works everytime. The best advice I can give you is to not engage in a discussion about vaxing with the ped, just ask they be respectful of your choice.

I have also found family practitioners to be more easy going on the vax topic.

Good luck mama!
post #3 of 15
I second the family practice doctors. My grandchildren both see a family practioner and have since they were infants (now 10 and 7). Once or twice someone in the practice has raised the vaccine stuff, but it has never gotten uncomfortable.
post #4 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
I second the family practice doctors. My grandchildren both see a family practioner and have since they were infants (now 10 and 7). Once or twice someone in the practice has raised the vaccine stuff, but it has never gotten uncomfortable.
I third this. We go to a fp and she explains what each shot is for, if it's fairly new, asks my reasons for declining certain shots (but not in a mean way) and explains any concerns I have. So far we've delayed almost all her shots by at least a month and have completely skipped 2 or 3 and it hasn't been an issue.
post #5 of 15
A fourth vote for a family practitioner. Ours doesn't question us a bit. He doesn't even do vaxes in the office. You have to go to the county health dept for that, if you even want them. Love it.
post #6 of 15
Yes, family practitioner is a good bet, and also just saying you are delaying a little longer is a far less confrontational stance to doctors who seem to make it about them and their control or credibility.
post #7 of 15
Sixth vote for family practice. Ours was pro-vax (I didn't even bother shopping around) but didn't make a big deal out of it. He did ask about shots each time, we declined, fine, we moved on.

I think pediatricians are basically vaccine specialists. So declining vaccines is, to them, telling them they can't practice medicine - because it's the majority of what they do. Family doctors don't see themselves as dispensers of vaccines, it's just one of hundreds of things they might do.

As for how to research vaccines in a balanced way - I think your best bet is the CDC website. Particularly the raw data. Yes, the CDC is completely pro-vax, but take in what they have to say as a balance to the anti-vax stuff you read, and look at the hard numbers yourself (there's no commentary on their datasheets so you can come to your own conclusions).

I will say that my DH did NOT want to stop vaccinating. We went round and round for a while. Finally I told him that he should research his point of view and we'd discuss. I was sincerely open to it, while we have stopped vaccinating and I'm comfortable with that, I still am open to the possibility that vaccines work pretty well (albiet with a lot of serious risks that they pretend aren't there). Anyway, my DH looked at pro-vaccine materials online and in magazines (no, no actual studies) and was appalled by the poor quality of their arguments. Nothing I said convinced him, it was the pro-vaccine stuff that convinced him. I'm just telling you this to say that I think the CDC is really the only way to go, because most of what's out there is just crap written on deadline by low rate "journalists" spewing the party line.
post #8 of 15
Where are you in TX? There are lots of peds. here in Houston who won't harass you. BUT, you also need to not LET them harass you. Don't get into a discussion with them. Say you're not vaxing today, and move on. Repeat the same thing until they get the idea. If they still bully you choose a different dr.

good luck!

-Angela
post #9 of 15
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your advice on using a FP instead. I think that may well be our best option. It just seem like the Peds are very ready for a fight and lecture, just because you say you will not vaccinate today. I didn't allow him to intimidate me, in fact it seemed I had a better understanding and more knowledge about all the info out there, good and bad. A lot of what he said wasn't true and he didn't even know about the VAERs info. How can you be a pediatrician and not know about reporting vaccine reactions, oh yes I forgot only a certain percentage actually report them THAT'S WHY!!!! I guess I will start looking for an FP who will see me and all my kids if we get sick. I really don't see the point in even the well baby checks at this point. I know my child better than anyone and I think I will know when they are not thriving. All they ever do is weigh, measure and shoot them up with vaccines. Can anyone tell me if there is any good reason to go to a well baby check unless your baby is showing signs of sickness? The thought of taking my baby into an already sick and contaminated environment just doesn't seem too smart, when they aren't sick. Do FP usually see newborns if needed? I will be breast feeding, all my kids are homeschooled, and we really don't expose them to a lot of things, but I still want a back up in case they are sick with something I just don't know how to treat myself. I live southeast of the Dallas area, so anyone who knows of a good FP who will not give me a hard time about vaccinations please let me know. Towns near us are Terrell, Kaufman, Garland, Mesquite, Dallas. Hospitals near us are Baylor of Dallas, and Childrens.Thanks.
post #10 of 15
I thought I'd tell you what I've done with WBV. I did all the MW appointments up to age 6 weeks. I took DD to our FP dr for her 2 month WBV. I told the dr I was delaying vaxes. She talked to me for a few minutes about why she recommended them, then moved on. At the appointment DD was weighed and measured. The dr checked her reflexes, which I already knew were fine. I felt very rushed and the dr barely answered the questions I did have. So, I felt that the WBV would be a colossal waste of time and didn't go to another one. DD is now 12 months old and hasn't been back to the dr. She has been sick twice but there was no need to take her to a dr. We have moved and I am going to take her to a new FP dr just in case she does get sick and need treatment of some sort. But we've lived here for five months and I'm just now finding a dr that I think will be supportive of our choices so I'll probably make her appointment soon. I did look at some Peds office websites but they were all so pro-vax (and one office even did circs) so I ruled them all out. Good luck with your search!
post #11 of 15
We see a family doctor who is also a homeopath. I think the WBV's are important just to have an impartial, educated third eye on my DS... and DH & I can bring up any silly concerns we have & we have a great relationship with the doc so if anything comes up, he knows our history, diet, medical conditions, etc. I also feel like it gives me some 'protection' if anyone tried to investigate us for not vaxing (i.e. they would see that we have regularly brought DS to the doc & he is always healthy etc.) BUT we really like this doc & he's really open-minded & respectful of our choices... if that weren't the case (and it wasn't with the first pedi we tried!) then we may not have ended up doing the WBV's. I found our doc through Finding Your Tribe, did you check there?
post #12 of 15
Thread Starter 
You guys will have to forgive me, I am still learning all the computer lingo. What is a WBV's? I did some more research and found four other peds who were actually recommended on Dr. Tennpenny's web site as at least open to the the idea of not vaccinating, but I am very leary now because the one I just took my daughter to was recommended as okay with you not vaccinating and that obviously isn't true. He said he would respect my wishes because the law was on my side, but when we left the office they were very cold and you could tell the Ped. couldn't wait to get away from me after a few questions, I also felt somewhat threatened as if he couldn't wait to call CPS on me, but I guess he knows the law. I just want someone who is going to treat my kids fairly and with compassion even if I choose not to vaccinate, not like we have the plague or something. Has anyone heard of Dr. Karin Bergman, Dr. Tammy Kennedy, or Dr. Carla Cole? I can't find much on the internet about them or about their stance on vaccines. I would just as soon call and interview them on the phone before I even bother to go any further, and I do not want to talk with a receptionist or nurse. I would actually like to personally talk with the doctor. Is that even possible? How would you respectfully bring up the vaccine issue? I really want to be honest and upfront, I don't want to say I am delaying vaccination because I'm not, I don't want my kids to EVER have a vaccine, even delayed ones at least not until someone can convince me that they are completely 100% safe, effective, and non toxic and we know right now that is not possible. Thanks for all of the suggestion, it looks like I have more options than I thought I did. I was thinking I was just going to have to forego all doctors, and all visits and take them to the emergency room if they got really sick.
post #13 of 15
WBV = well baby visit

Here is the link to the FYT (Finding Your Tribe) area for TX: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...splay.php?f=95 I think you will have better luck there if you have questions about specific doctors (I live in New England so I'm useless in that regard!)

I think it would be difficult to talk to the doctor via phone unless you find a doc that doesn't use a receptionist (mine doesn't so that's cool but also unusual). I'm not sure where you got the recommendation for the doc you last saw, I got a pedi recommendation from here actually but it was out-dated/not first-hand so I should've known that first pedi we saw wouldn't work out in the long run! Of course, we originally were going to do selective/delayed vax, which he said he was fine with, but when we started delaying more & more and leaning toward no vax, he gave me the same "ready to call CPS" vibe as you got. So we switched.

I would get some rec's from FYT and go from there...

Also it is common for non-vaxers to have to go through several docs to find a good fit, so don't feel like there's something wrong with you/your area/etc., it's just unfortunately the way the medical establishment is right now.
post #14 of 15
With my first I did all the WBV's. I really didn't know I had a choice. Ds was born at home and had his first few checks by our midwife. I took him in around 3 months just to get him on record. After that we started going yearly. Same with my dd. I would skip them, but my kids are in preschool and need doctors forms each year to attend.
post #15 of 15
Have you ever considered a Naturopathic Doc? IN AZ, ND's are certified as primary care physicians and my insurance (Cigna) even pays for an ND. I'll admit I did do all the wbv up to 15mo. It was my first baby and I thought these visits were mandatory, idk why I thought that . Anyhow after researching, talking to other moms on MDC I finally decided to go with an ND who specializes in pediatrics. My ds was getting stomache aches right after he would eat. Instead of prescribing some toxic drug, my ND did a simple urine test and found out his food wasn't breaking down completely in his stomach and gave us some probiotics to take before eating. It solved the problem and without any invasive-type of testing involved.
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