College early or Boarding(science academy) school?

[Lisa1970]

My daughter has homeschooled 6 years. Last year, we tried out the local public schools, but not only was she way ahead (causing them to make half her day electives) but they were horrible, nasty, disgusting people. There is no way she will return to public school. We pulled her out before the holidays last year and then put her in a distance learning program. She took all 10th grade level courses. She was the age of an 8th grader last year. (I don't think she is beyond brilliant, I just think the public schools were failing to teach the kids. The teachers spent much of the classtime surfing the internet and talking on their cell phones and not teaching at all). She earned almost all high A's. The distance learning program is through a local private school so she went in for science labs and tests and discussions. The teachers there were so impressed by her that they suggested my daughter consider Texas Academy of Math and Science. The one teacher had her son there. It is at a local state university which is in the area. She would go there in 11th grade, which would be when she is 16. Despite the fact that she was taking all 10th grade level courses last year, they gave her high school credit but did not move up her classification as per my request.

My daughter is very eager to go off to college. I told her no but remembered that my parents did not allow me to go to college early and that bothered me. I felt like they did not accept me for who I was. My mother just kept saying she wanted me to be a cheerleader and popular and things like that. (she seriously made it clear that she wanted a popular daughter, and specifically, a cheerleader daughter, not someone like me). While my reasons for keeping my daughter from college another year are not the same, I am thinking that perhaps if I say no, I am not accepting her for who she is.

Anyway, my daughter is thrilled with the idea of the academy of math and science. The big disadvantage is that I will end up paying up near $9000 a year for her to attend a college where her top picks for college will not take dual credit in transfer. But the big advantage is, she will be in classes that will challenge her more and hopefully be more at her level, without flying off a few states away to attend college. Another disadvantage is, unless it is a "home weekend" the kids all have to be in by curfew. Home weekends only happen once a month. I am welcome to visit her in between all I want, as long as I have her back to the dorm by curfew. I am a little miffed by that requirement. Even if I were a divorced noncustodial parent, I would get more visitation than that. But then again, if she goes to college a few states away, I would see even less of her.

What do you think?

[sha_lyn]

Can you not go ahead and declare her as a highschool graduate? This would allow her to attend local college classes for college credit instead of dual high school/college credit. Then when she is ready to move away she could apply to her desired college as a transfer student.

[Lisa1970]

Her list of colleges includes Colorado College and Carleton College which are almost impossible to get in to as transfer students.

[eclipse]

I would probably let her go to college.

[gwen's mom]

First off let me say that I am all for early college-I think that this is something that I would have benefited me quite a bit as a 17 y/o.

However, I am also a college administrator who has worked at both private and public colleges. I would be hesitant to send my underage student off to a college hundreds or thousands of miles away from home. I have seen several students come to college at 16 and 17 (and even a few at 15) who, while academically successful, really struggled emotionally. They simply were not as emotionally mature as their peers and therefore were not prepared for many of the difficult decisions they had to make in social settings. If you are still considering it, I would discuss this issue with many different offices on each of the campuses being considered, asking what support systems are in place for underage students. Don’t simply take an admission rep’s word for it.

I really think that emotionally, financially, and in prep for academic success, I would recommend a community college and then perhaps a local state school. As the holder of a BA from a private school, I can say that the extra money spent has not proven beneficial. 80-90% of my peers in both of my masters programs and now my PhD program earned their bachelors at state schools.

[Lisa1970]

Originally Posted by gwen's mom

First off let me say that I am all for early college-I think that this is something that I would have benefited me quite a bit as a 17 y/o.

However, I am also a college administrator who has worked at both private and public colleges. I would be hesitant to send my underage student off to a college hundreds or thousands of miles away from home. I have seen several students come to college at 16 and 17 (and even a few at 15) who, while academically successful, really struggled emotionally. They simply were not as emotionally mature as their peers and therefore were not prepared for many of the difficult decisions they had to make in social settings. If you are still considering it, I would discuss this issue with many different offices on each of the campuses being considered, asking what support systems are in place for underage students. Don’t simply take an admission rep’s word for it.

I really think that emotionally, financially, and in prep for academic success, I would recommend a community college and then perhaps a local state school. As the holder of a BA from a private school, I can say that the extra money spent has not proven beneficial. 80-90% of my peers in both of my masters programs and now my PhD program earned their bachelors at state schools.

The reason for the specific colleges mentioned is, one of them for the special program and the other because she is a legacy and I know she should be able to get certain scholarships for that at that particular school. Since I am from back there, I have lots of family still there, including my own sister and my cousin who is her Godfather. (plus a bunch of other relatives). One other colleges on her list is actually a few miles from my sister. Because we are in Texas, I have never been to the state universities that would be more of a fit for her, but I do think they are several hours drive away. (meaning, she is probably better off a 10 minute drive from my sister than a 5-6 hr drive from us just to stay at a state university). I am actually unsure on those drive times, but they are far enough away that I have not been there. I did add LSU, OU, and Texas A&M, and UT Austin to the list to consider if she goes at 18. I also did not really want her at a huge state university. But I am open to it if she waits until 18. The state university that is close to our home where the academy is at is pretty much a commuter school and definitely tier 4. (not to sound like a snob, but she is very driven and has worked very hard all these years. She does not want to go there for college, but likes the academy).

My thoughts on waiting for college until 18 was along the lines of social things. She is very mature, but I am guessing no one will take her seriously or include her in things much if she is under 18 when she goes. Plus, she is my only daughter and I will miss her. Feels like everyone grows up too fast as it is.

[Savoir Faire]

I'd say go to the private math/science school and then onto college.

She still has plenty of time to go to college. I'm just thinking of the social situations...I can't say I'd want my 16-year-old daughter to be in the same social/dating/party circles as a 22-year-old boy.

I think she'd probably really enjoy the math/science academy and it would give her a bit of time to mature socially/emotionally/whatever before sending her off across the country.

As for the big state schools, I am a native Texan and attended A&M and am familiar with all the schools in the state. I also heavily considered a small private school (Rhodes College) before deciding on the State U.

My take on the state U is this: Say you live in a town of 50,000 people. Do you ever see all 50,000 at the same time? No. Same with the big colleges. I pretty much saw the same people every day (most of us are creatures of habit and eat at the same time, walk to our classes the same way, etc.) and really didn't feel as part of a huge crowd.

But...I really like the idea of private schools. I know they can be beautiful and the student body is much smaller (which has its own pros and cons from all my friends who went there).

My concerns, again, are just with her being so much younger than the other students. A year or two can't hurt...and she could still go.

[Bluegoat]

If you "graduated" her now, what about focusing on some non-academic things for a bit until she goes away at 18? She could do some work to keep up, but there are lots of other things out there worth pursuing. Volunteering with an organization she believes in, working, studying art or music, running a marathon... A friend of mine spent a year living in Africa through a no-government agency program for young people, and as an adult in her 30s thinks of it as one of the most formative experiences of her life.

If academics is really her love, she could always set out to do something like read all of Shakespeare, or learn a new language, or something similar.

[EmmysMama]

Are you my mom!?

I was in the same position as your daughter, really, going into tenth grade. I could stay at the (terrible academically and socially) public school and take community college classes after school, or go to a public boarding "gifted student" academy. Homeschooling wasn't an option for me as it would have isolated me even more (I really had no friends, and we were not in driving distance of any good homeschooling groups or other resources).

I went to the Louisiana School for Math, Science, and the Arts, on NSU's campus. I loved it. It was worth what my parents paid and more.

I wasn't ready emotionally to be "on my own" at college, at that age. I needed more structure and supervision. Back then I kind of resented curfew, all the dorm rules, etc (TAMS rules are pretty similar to LSMSA rules if I remember correctly) but now I know I wouldn't have known how to handle total "freedom". Also, the camaraderie was GREAT. I met OTHER INTERESTING TEENAGERS. Wow! And professors who KNEW THINGS. Honestly, professors who choose to work with gifted teenagers are a special sort of people. The classes I took at LSMSA were more fulfilling than ANY class I took in college! They were that hard! But it wasn't all drudgery, it was fun too, because for the first time I felt like part of a group. I wasn't "weird" there. I was "normal". I could talk about history, string theory, music, theatre, calculus! And people didn't look at me like I had three heads!

If she wants to go, and you can afford to send her, I would. I absolutely plan to send my kids to LSMSA if they want to go. I also got to meet "gifties" from other schools of that type, TAMS, the ones in Mississippi, Alabama, and Arkansas too (sports teams traveled for tournaments).

I would not trade anything for that experience.

[crunchy_mommy]

I went to college after 11th grade. I had a lot of emotional/psychiatric problems before that so in my case college was the most logical & best choice. I actually wish I had gone after 10th grade but we never considered it an option.

I had no social issues (but was a year or so older than your daughter). The one "problem" I did have was that I finished all the requirements for my major in only 3 years and I just wasn't ready (emotionally) to graduate & enter the workforce. So I ended up working on a second major & spending 5 years total in college (but graduated with 2 distinct & separate majors which has benefitted me in the workforce).

See if you can find out what the schools' populations are like as far as age... The university I went to was a state school & a large part of the population came from overseas (Africa etc.) and in their school system they graduate much younger. So I had a good handful of college classmates that were only 16 when they entered college. They were very involved & did wonderfully socially -- BUT they were not homeschooled, they had been in public/private schools all their lives. I would consider that as a factor as well, that your DD has been mostly homeschooled.

Another option would be to homeschool for another 6mos-year and finish off her high-school requirements so she could be considered a high-school graduate and go to whatever college she wants.

Also, many colleges won't accept non-graduates (one of the reasons I went to the state university, and I had planned on transferring after a year but ended up staying, who knows why...)

ETA: I don't know anything about the boarding school but I guess I wouldn't really consider that if it were me, due to the costs & the fact that she wouldn't be able to transfer the credits...

[Zuzu822]

You might want to look into Bard College at Simon's Rock. It's an early college, created for students to attend after 10-11 grade. I started there after my sophomore year. Students attend for two years, receive an A.A. degree then can matriculate to the upper college or transfer. It's in Western M.A., but like I said, since it was designed for younger students there are lots of supports in place. Stricter than other colleges but not as strict as boarding high schools, I suspect.
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[Roar]

Originally Posted by Lisa1970

Anyway, my daughter is thrilled with the idea of the academy of math and science. The big disadvantage is that I will end up paying up near $9000 a year for her to attend a college where her top picks for college will not take dual credit in transfer.

What about financial aid? Have you filled out the FAFSA? If you are just trying to get an idea of eligibility you could try the FAFSA4caster that allows you to do a sample FAFSA to get a ballpark idea. http://www.fafsa4caster.ed.gov/F4CApp/index/index.jsf

I think it is good you are looking down the road to consider how her decision now may affect her future college decisions. I would suggest including a couple of considerations in your deliberation. One, many colleges LOVE graduates from these dual enrollment programs. So, if she does well she may be more competitive for admissions and scholarships than she is right now. In that way this might be a good investment. Also, if she's really happy where she is again she's in a better position when she applies for college as well as happy kids tend to do better. The fact that she's really excited about this program is a good sign.

My other thought is that college plans often change a lot while in high school. I'd hate to see you bypass something that would work well right now with the thought that the credits wouldn't transfer. If they don't, that may still be great for her because it gave her a good last couple of years of high school. If she ends up making different college decisions she's got credits if she wants them. Either way she's still in good shape.

How much do you know about the social aspects of this program. I get the sense some of the folks responding don't understand that typically in these programs students are in separate housing with other high school juniors and seniors and they supervision and planned social activities. Would this appeal to your daughter? Is she looking for same age peers or mostly just the classroom that is more appealing?

[Roar]

Originally Posted by gwen's mom

I would be hesitant to send my underage student off to a college hundreds or thousands of miles away from home. I have seen several students come to college at 16 and 17 (and even a few at 15) who, while academically successful, really struggled emotionally. They simply were not as emotionally mature as their peers and therefore were not prepared for many of the difficult decisions they had to make in social settings. .

Of course you know there are people would say that exact same thing about social maturity for homeschoolers starting college. It is bunk about homeschoolers and it is bunk about early entrants. One thing I like about the homeschooling world is that most people recognize that chronological age is not the sole determinant of a child's intellectual, social or emotional maturity. Obviously there are 16 year olds who live at home and get drunk all through high school and 19 year olds who are too immature for college. And there are sixteen year olds who are mature enough for college and do great because kids aren't all clones who all need the exact same set of experiences. And, again the program she's looking at is a program for high school students. It offers a peer group and supervision.

[lach]

I think that the socialization aspects of college are very, very important for later life, particularly at the types of colleges that you are talking about. The friendships and connections she'll make will serve her through life more than most of the individual classes. So I think I would wait to send her until she will enter at the same age as most of her peers. I would do the boarding school, or Simon's Rock as someone previously mentioned. Or perhaps you can find some other programs to fill up time for a few years: semester at sea type programs, or foreign exchange programs.

[ChristaN]

Unless she is set on the specific colleges you mentioned, how about taking a look at some of the early entrance college programs like Mary Baldwin's PEG program? Those types of programs are specifically designed for kids who are skipping part of high school to start college early and are more closely supervised like the boarding school you mention. Plus, all of the other students are younger and hopefully academically motivated.

My oldest is very interested in UW's EEP program, but it is not residential, so we'd have to move to Washington state. Plus, she's not quite 12, so we hopefully have a few more years before she's looking at college .

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by Bluegoat

If you "graduated" her now, what about focusing on some non-academic things for a bit until she goes away at 18? She could do some work to keep up, but there are lots of other things out there worth pursuing. Volunteering with an organization she believes in, working, studying art or music, running a marathon... A friend of mine spent a year living in Africa through a no-government agency program for young people, and as an adult in her 30s thinks of it as one of the most formative experiences of her life.

If academics is really her love, she could always set out to do something like read all of Shakespeare, or learn a new language, or something similar.

I gotta agree with this.

[ocelotmom]

Originally Posted by Zuzu822

You might want to look into Bard College at Simon's Rock. It's an early college, created for students to attend after 10-11 grade. I started there after my sophomore year. Students attend for two years, receive an A.A. degree then can matriculate to the upper college or transfer. It's in Western M.A., but like I said, since it was designed for younger students there are lots of supports in place. Stricter than other colleges but not as strict as boarding high schools, I suspect.
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I was going to suggest the same - I know several people who went there. Then I looked at the website for the school she was talking about and saw that it's a similar setup (though science/math focused, not liberal arts), though it doesn't look like they earn an AA - just transfer credit.

Originally Posted by Lisa1970

The reason for the specific colleges mentioned is, one of them for the special program and the other because she is a legacy and I know she should be able to get certain scholarships for that at that particular school.

From reading the website, it sounds to me like TAMS is effectively a 2 year full scholarship, not including room and board (which financial aid may help with). If she ends up attending a different college as a transfer student, that will be two years less you'll be paying for. And, as a high achieving student, she's likely to be able to get a scholarship elsewhere.

I'm a big fan of going to schools you can afford, but it seems like this is an area where compromises could occur, if it's what she really wants.

[zeldamomma]

I would get her "The Teenage Liberation Handbook" and broaden the conversation about what is possible. I would hesitate to let a 15 year old's list of possible colleges be a deciding factor. Things might change in the next 3 years, and she may find she wants something very different, and in the end, if the colleges on her list prevent her from doing what 's right for her now, they aren't a good fit. There are many many colleges out there. I would try to make a decision that works well for her now, and closes as few doors as possible with regards to college in the future.