DH had a scary reaction--help on next step?

[chellebee]

DH has had this happen 2x now, and I'm realizing the first time was not just a fluke.

Reaction 1: We were eating out at a Mexican restaurant. Everything was normal, all the sudden he is turning red and doing the choking sign and then started throwing up (kind of in small forced amounts?) and pounding on his chest. This reaction took a LONG time to settle down. He was able to breathe (except for the very first moment), but it was like he had to gulp air between his body pushing this food out.

Reaction 2: Eating dinner at home, but I used a chicken & rice soup mix from a local farm. Talking as usual, then bam, it's happening. I ran for the benedryl and got him to take some when it was possible and the reaction was over pretty quickly compared to last time. Same reaction though, the not breathing and throwing up with a stuck feeling in chest.

Both of these meals were things we didn't usually eat. He had some kind of shredded beef burrito w reaction #1 and at home it was a soup mix and I had added canned chicken to it. I'm wondering if there could be something about canned meats that he could be allergic to? I wonder if the shredded beef was canned at the restaurant. Otherwise it could be a food additive, but otherwise there was not any similarity between the meals.

I want to figure this out because it seems kind of anaphylactic and fear it getting worse. I know we can get him an epipen. Should we do an IgE blood test? Anything else?

[JaneS]

MSG?

It seems anaphylactic to me too. I'd carry an epipen and do some testing. Not sure if an MSG reaction would be an IgE or food chemical one that wouldn't show on traditional allergy testing.

[DevaMajka]

Seasonings? Pepper? Were there any other common ingredients? Rice, tomatoes, corn, etc?

I'd probably go for the IgE testing, myself. But make sure you find someone who deals with food reactions. The allergist I went to focused mostly on pollen/animals/dust allergens, even though the reactions I had seemed food related, and I never have any pollen/dust type reactions.

[earthmama369]

I'd get the bloodwork done -- it can't hurt and you never know what might show up. It could be anything from some additive in canned meats to a spice or flavoring ingredient. If we hadn't stumbled upon a direct exposure for our first allergic reaction, it would have taken us forever to figure out why ds can't have canned tuna or shredded cheese. I mean, really -- not much in the way of common ingredients there. But both have nightshades in them. So it could be a family of things he's reacting to, or something that's listed under "spices" instead of a specific listing.

It would be worth called the restaurant and explaining that you're trying to figure out an allergic reaction, and ask if they can provide the nutritional information on the meal that he had there.

[sbgrace]

Anaphylaxis for certain and so he does need an epi pen (two actually as one isn't always enough) and he needs to read up on the first signs. You do an epi and go to the ER at the first sign of reaction. Waiting until things get serious can be dangerous as the epi won't always work if taken too late into the reaction. Most people who die had an epi at some point but too late. Also, an epi pen buys time to get to help.

You can have a reaction you survive once and then the next time your blood pressure drops and you die. Adults die too. So I would certainly want allergy testing so I knew what I was reacting to. I'd be thinking spice of some sort given what he was eating. I'd contact that farm, tell them what happened, and find out what was in the mix. Cross reference that list (any ingredients he doesn't regularly have) with the restaurant. You might figure out what it is. My father has ana reactions to an unusual spice and it took a long time to figure out which one. You've got a headstart given the local production of one of the culprits it sounds like. That said, spices often have major contamination issues with other spices (and things like sesame which is a rising major allergy that causes ana reactions) so it may not be the actual ingredient but rather cross contamination. It's still worth asking as you can go into the allergist with that information. If he doesn't have sesame otherwise without reactions that would be one to test (not eat..it's a serious allergen/reaction but test).

[chellebee]

thank you all so much. I am glad that you are echoing my concerns that this is a very serious reaction. Does anybody know how what a good way to testing for chemical/additive/spices is

You can have a reaction you survive once and then the next time your blood pressure drops and you die.

My first step is to convince DH of this to get his butt in to get some testing done and an epipen. What is really scary, is the reaction is from 0 to 100. He's fine and then BAM, not breathing.

The canned chicken I used was TJ's--ingredients were chicken and broth. The soup I made had 'chicken base' in the spice mix, and after looking that up, it looks like it could have not only MSG, but all kinds of other additives.

I'll be contacting the farm to see what the source of their chicken base was. The restaurant incident happened over a year ago and I don't even know for sure what dish he had there...just that it was shredded beef in a tortilla, probably a burrito.

[chellebee]

i just remembered, he has complained about the stuck feeling in his chest (without the other symptoms though) when he ate some canned tuna awhile back. It was just tuna canned in olive oil.

[scsigrl]

I dunno...Have you considered he was *just* choking? It seems like a pretty far jump from what you are describing to calling it an anna reaction IMO. It is the first thing we Mom's here attribute things to but if it has happened 2 times? How old is he?

Scary in any case but I would start with talking to your Dr. before jumping to it being an allergy.

[chellebee]

scsigirl--it's my DH that this happened to, not a child. I get the feeling you thought it was a kiddo? The first time it happened, he thought, "well, maybe I didn't chew my food well enough??" but after the second time and with it calming down faster with benedryl, it seems like a reaction. It wasn't like he inhaled a chunk of chicken or something, IYKWIM.

What makes you feel like it's a far jump to an ana reaction? I'm genuinely curious.

[scsigrl]

Ahhhhhhh DH. Now I see it! lol

Well I know allergies can present at any time but not having been there it sounds like a choking episode to me. Did he have hives or trouble breathing? Any "crash" after the attack? Ana reactions involve more than one body system and this sounds to be like it didn't do that.

[chellebee]

it's usually about our kids, so I totally get it!

I'm not sure what you mean by a crash? No hives, but definitely trouble breathing. He said it feels like the food gets stuck deep in his chest, he suddenly can't swallow, and then his body starts forcing whatever was in it out and while this is all going on he is clearly not getting enough air. So yes, I would have to agree that it looks a lot like choking...but the way it all happens makes me think something is swelling/constricting to initially cause the choking reaction. Or I could be way off here.

[DevaMajka]

(I thought it was a dc at first too. lol)

Canned tuna can be high in amines. I'm guessing that canned chicken could be too. Beef is generally high in amines.

Is MSG related to amines? I could never figure that out for sure. They are both food chemicals (glutamates are naturally found in some foods).

(amines in meat have to do with bacteria, so the longer it "sits," even canned, the more amines it is likely to have. I might not be exactly right, but it's something along those lines).

[scsigrl]

I am not suggesting you don't look into at all I just wonder if it is something totally unrelated.

I have episodes a lot like this. It isn't all the time. It does feel like I am choking and my body is trying to force things out but for me, I think it is a GI issue. It has happened while doing an intense food log due to DD's issues and there was nothing similar or even close.

Since it is your DH, can he explain what he thinks the issue is? Does his esophagus feel like it is in spasms? If you get his exact feelings on this it might give you more info...or not

[mama1803]

I used to suffer from terrible reflux and this is what would happen to me. I'd only get relief from the stuck food feeling when I would throw up. The chest pains were horrible.

[Adamsmama]

I was going to suggest amines as well. I'm terribly allergic/sensitive to histamine in foods. Histamine/amine is naturally occuring in foods that are processed a certain way/fermented/aged (even canned). I have to watch ingredients in foods. I started having ana. type reactions (throat closing) in 2006, then in 2007 I also started getting wheezing and tongue/lip tingling with certain foods. For me certain foods -- even small amounts -- trigger this reaction.

Of course, it could be a true IgE reaction, as well. To rule this out in myself, I was allergy tested. I had no "4s" ... 2 "3s" which were corn & rice, which I now also avoid and the rest were "2s".

[chellebee]

Interesting about the reflux. Definitely a thought I will keep in mind.

I know nothing about amines I'll have to read up on that and see what I find!

DH agreed to making an appt with our ND. She can draw blood for the IgE test and refer us to an allergist if necessary.

thank you all!

[Juniper Gerrie-Sue]

I'd also suggest having his throat looked at by a specialist. My father has a recurring ring of scar tissue that builds in his esophagus that he has to have stretched every 5 to 10 years because it builds and causes him to choke on foods like meat and potatoes. Just a random thought that I had to throw out there.

I would think he would be aware of an allergy by now and/or would have some accompanying symptoms such as hives if this were an IGE allergy.

GL!!

[Adamsmama]

Originally Posted by Juniper Gerrie-Sue

I would think he would be aware of an allergy by now and/or would have some accompanying symptoms such as hives if this were an IGE allergy.

GL!!

I would have thought the same thing and tried to figure out a reason I had the choking feeling for a long time ... I finally figured it out. After baby3 was born I started having lip/tongue tingling and realized what was going on ... along with asthma attacks.

[earthmama369]

Canned tuna and chicken in broth can both have a pretty wide range of vegetables in them, including nightshades. (That's the one I'm most conversant in because ds is allergic to nightshades -- tomatoes, potatoes, eggplant, pepper, and tobacco.) Canned tuna, whether in olive oil or water, often has broth in it. It sounds like there may well be some common ingredients between the two food items.