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Traditional Catholic Moms Summer 2010 chat - Page 6

post #101 of 139
I knew it would be an unpopular option. But I did want to offer it. For some people, it might be a viable option
.
But yes, children do belong with their families at Mass (hence why I have issue with CLOW)

Cagnew- I am glad you found the article I posted helpful. I have always found that article helpful and inspiring.
post #102 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatienceAndLove View Post
I knew it would be an unpopular option. But I did want to offer it. For some people, it might be a viable option
.
Well, the reality is that sometimes kids ARE a hindrance to those around them at Mass. I've attended parishes that seemed more tolerant of the constant dull roar and others that had a much less inclusive feel. I'll tell you what though, as the only parent attending Mass in my family and with three children 5 and under, generally only my oldest goes with me on Sunday. My 2 year old and infant have no idea what is going on and I cannot help my 5 year old participate and me participate if all I am doing is stepping out to nurse, or get my screaming-way-too-loud-even-for-the-cry-room 2 year old out and away from everyone else.

I get really frustrated with the "training" comments I see every single time this topic comes up at Catholic Answers forums - I think age appropriate behavior should be respected and appreciated for what it is. It is hard for me to sit still for an hour sometimes, especially if I have no idea what is going on (like if I were in a lecture on physics for instance) and the complexity of the Mass is absolutely lost on really young children. Not worth the constant frustration and even anger that taking them to Mass means for this mama.

JMO!
post #103 of 139
Right there with you about age-appropriate behavior! I think my problem came when I realized that it's time to get real about what's appropriate! I think it's OK for a very bright nearly 4 year old to sit "still" for 45 minutes. (We usually go to the very low-key vigil Mass for a number of reasons. She's not really still -- there's standing and kneeling, and she can always sit on my lap.) I just think it's time she gave up the magnet books and started paying something like attention, even if it's 4 year old attention.

My struggle with bringing the 13 month old is simply that I don't want the kids thinking the Church is a girl thing, and I'm afraid if I let "the boys" off the hook, that's what it will become. This is especially an issue since DH doesn't attend Mass. I think it's important for DS (and any other DSs we may have) to be as immersed in the Mass as DD is.

And of course some weeks I have no choice if I want to attend at all ...

But perhaps this is not the time to worry about that.
post #104 of 139
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMG580 View Post
I get really frustrated with the "training" comments I see every single time this topic comes up at Catholic Answers forums - I think age appropriate behavior should be respected and appreciated for what it is. It is hard for me to sit still for an hour sometimes, especially if I have no idea what is going on (like if I were in a lecture on physics for instance) and the complexity of the Mass is absolutely lost on really young children. Not worth the constant frustration and even anger that taking them to Mass means for this mama.

JMO!
I agree! Completely. Dd1 didn't attend mass until she was nearly 5 years old (after we converted, former atheists, so she had NEVER been in a church) and you would never know now that she's 9. I honestly see no point in dragging my 2 year old who wants to act like a 2 year old. I don't think forcing her to go teaches her anything, especially when I end up sitting in the car (and then can't even receive Communion) because she's screaming during consecration (I don't expect her to be perfect, but I refuse to tolerate kids being like that during consecration, and I hate it when other people let their kids scream the whole time). Dd2 is nearly blind and developmentally disabled, I don't think people can understand how boring and frustrating Mass can be for a child like that. Again, I never saw the point of forcing her to go when it was so upsetting for her. Now at 5 she's finally getting the ability to sit through Mass, and she usually comes. It's made all the more difficult by the fact that my dh works third shift.

So, I think it's very individual, and I think it's wonderful if you can make it work, that's fantastic. But until the Church tells me it's a mortal sin to leave a toddler at home, I'm not going to feel guilty about it
post #105 of 139
So.... I think I may be with child. And I don't know how I feel about it.

I am happy that God welcomed me into the miracle of creating life, but I am disappointed in myself for falling to temptation. I am happy God could use that moment and create life, and I am out-of-this-world-happy that I created life with a man I actually love and would be proud to be the wife of and bear his children.

I guess, at this point, I am just... confused.

I am going to the local pregnancy center tomorrow after work to have a pregnancy test done. I chose this pregnancy center because they are run by a local Church and are VERY pro-life, so I am not worried about undue pressure.

Prayers, please.
post #106 of 139
Thread Starter 
Prayers for you, PaL
post #107 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by cagnew View Post

Shellie: COngrats on coming to the Church! Welcome home It can be very frustrating looking for a Catholic Church that is orthodox. I would just pray and ask God to lead you where He wants your family to be. In the meantime, it's good to be on guard when learning about the faith. One of the awesome things about the Catholic Church is that all Her teachings are there for you to look up. If something doesn't sound right (right advocating vasectomies), you can look it up pretty easily in the catechism or other Church documents. It's all written down As for the veil, you can wear one even if others don't. It's a little uncomfortable, but you get used to it. A handfull of women wear them at my Church, so I don't mind, but when we travel I always dread going to random churches b/c I feel like I stick out. I wear it anyway and offer it up....

That being said, I am preparing for a VBAC and I am terrified. My last birth was very traumatic I am NOT looking forward to birthing this one. At all. I'm happy about the baby, I just wish it would just, uh, appear one night instead of having to be birthed, I am only 15 wks so I have plenty of time to get revved up....
I love the fact that everything is there for me to look up if I have questions. It feels so good to have that firm foundation after having been to so many churches who's teachings are based on peoples interpretation of the Bible, which can differ so much from others.

Is the Latin Mass all in Latin or is it a mix of Latin and English? How else is it different from the English one?

I'm not sure how I'll deal with it if dh wants a vasectomy after we have our third baby (if it's God's will that we get pregnant again). He has been saying since before our first was born that he wants one, and it comes up after each birth. Once our very colicky newborn was about 8 months old dh agreed to go off birth control and trust God (or the Universe in his terms), but I dont know if that will last after another. Pregnancy and birth are pretty hard on my body (nothing major, but almost constant sciatica pain, insomnia, hard births, etc) so that would be difficult for him to watch happen over and over again. I guess I'll just deal with it when the time comes and may be posting for advice when/if it happens.

I read a lot of Mother Teresa, Teresa of Avila, and other mystic and spiritual writings and really am inspired by them. They stir devotion in me that has been dormant since I was a madly-in-love-with-Jesus youth who wanted to be a missionary pilot (I did end up a pilot, although I'm not flying now), andI want to be around other people who feel that way. It makes me feel disappointed when I see so many people come into mass late and leave early, and not seem too interested to be there, but I know there are a lot of people there who are devout, whether it's obvious to me or not, and think I need to focus on my own relationship with God & not let the status quo keep me from opening up & growing as much as I can.

I was quite happy with my last RCIA evening actually. There were different leaders and I felt very enriched by it, as well as having some of my many questions answered. I think I'll try out at least the other parish near me, and see how I like it, but will keep going to this RCIA & Sunday mass unless I feel like the other would be better.

Would any of you Catholic ladies find it presumptuous of a newcomer to be wearing a veil? I almost started head covering before I was going to a Catholic Church, since I'd been reading about it in the Bible, and from different headcovering womens blogs, but have been unsure if God wants me to or not. I feel like I would like to during prayer but try to pray throughout the day so would have to wear one all the time, and don't know if I'm comfortable doing that yet. If I was single or married to a Christian I would probably be, but don't want dh to think I'm strange.

My VBAC was very difficult but I always felt like it was worth it to birth my little girl vaginally & am thankful I was able to. I pray for God's will in yours, however it plays out. I know that fear though, and think I'll probably go through it again next time I see the two pink strips! If ONLY those little ones COULD just appear in our arms!

I don't know how to get quotes from two different posts so may do another reply later.

God Bless,
Shellie
post #108 of 139
There are different Latin Masses. Some parishes do offer the Novus Ordo mass in Latin, we had one in my old city, but I never went to it so I have no experience to share on that. Typically when you see the term Latin Mass used they mean the one from the 1962 Missal that was in effect prior to Vatican II. In my experience, Sunday masses are usually the Missa Cantata and is sung in Gregorian chant by the choir while the priest prays the mass. The only part in English is the homily although if there is a rosary prayed before mass by the congregation it's in English also. The Eucharist is taken kneeling at the altar rail and given by the priest on the tongue, confession is available before mass. There are no extraordinary Eucharistic ministers of holy communion, there are no female altar servers.

At the SSPX almost every woman will wear a headcovering, typically a mantilla and they are available to borrow and everyone will be generally be dressed modestly, there is no cry room, children are welcome and I've never seen any evil stares regarding noisy children. At diocesan Latin masses, some women will wear headcoverings and modest dress is not quite as widespread. Weekday Latin Masses are generally prayed by the priest without the choir.

Also, there is not the hand holding sign of peace, there are rarely hymns sung by the congregation itself. We do not say "and also with you", although no one will be saying that anyway come Advent this year since the new translation has gone back to more truly represent the Latin response which is "et spirito tuo" or "and with your spirit" in English.

List of changes to the Novus Ordo can be found here

As far as being new and wearing a veil, it's absolutely appropriate. I was concerned about what things I could do, and I couldn't since I am not officially Catholic yet and the priest told me I could everything but the Eucharist. So cross yourself with holy water and get in line to get your throat blessed if you want to.
post #109 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatienceAndLove View Post
So.... I think I may be with child. And I don't know how I feel about it.

I am happy that God welcomed me into the miracle of creating life, but I am disappointed in myself for falling to temptation. I am happy God could use that moment and create life, and I am out-of-this-world-happy that I created life with a man I actually love and would be proud to be the wife of and bear his children.

I guess, at this point, I am just... confused.

I am going to the local pregnancy center tomorrow after work to have a pregnancy test done. I chose this pregnancy center because they are run by a local Church and are VERY pro-life, so I am not worried about undue pressure.

Prayers, please.
I've been there, P&L. We may have our differences, but please know that I completely understand what you are feeling right now.
post #110 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
I've been there, P&L. We may have our differences, but please know that I completely understand what you are feeling right now.
thanks
post #111 of 139
P&L, prayers for both you and J. I know it's hard when there are circumstances that make it so that you can't get married now and don't know when you will be able to. I will keep you in my prayers, both that God would give you the grace you need to deal with your situation and raise any children that God gives you and also that you would find grace, peace, forgiveness, and strength to walk in the light of Christ on the straight and narrow path to heaven.
post #112 of 139
P&L: s and prayers

Shellie: Latin Mass (or the Extraordinary Mass, as people like to call it now) is all in Latin. The readings are in Latin, but sometimes they read them in English right before the homily or sermon (which is in English). There may or may not be singing depending on whether or nots a High Mass or Solemn High Mass or Low Mass. There is much less "vocal" participation by the congregation- that does not mean they do not participate, however. It's hard to explain because there is a totally different way of thinking that goes along with the Latin Mass. It's really very beautiful. Hmmm... what else... there is more kneeling, esp in a low mass. There is an extra gospel reading at the end of Mass (from John- it's always the same reading- "in the beginning was the Word") and there are prayers after Mass (this varies according to priest, but most at least pray the Saint Michael prayer).

There is a lot more silence. That's hard to get used to for some people because you don't know what to do. Funny, huh? You're in the presence of God and you don't know what to do. The obvious answer, of course, is to talk to Him, but when you're used to the novus ordo you kind of forget that (in my experience). I've learned to love the silence... much more conducive to prayer.

I guess I could on and on about it I resisted the Latin when I was in high school and my parents started going. I hated it, actually. But now I love it and will gladly drive over an hour to go. I guess my love of it came directly from learning more about it and more about the priests role and all the little actions he does on the alter. It's breathtaking and beautiful. I am so happy my kids will be raised in the Old Rite.

Along the same lines, I wonder what the Church is going to do about the Latin Mass. At some point they are going to have to deal with it. The demand is growing (The Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter has so many demands it can't possibly keep up and they are looking to build another seminary to accomodate all the men coming to them... exciting!)and its causing some confusion. The Old Rite follows the old calendar, which is pretty different from the new calendar. Plus, kids who are educated in the Old Rite and receive the sacraments through the Old Rite will be learning different things than the kids in the New Rite. It's kind of strange. I guess the easiest way to handle it would be to officially make it another Rite (I think that's the word I am looking for). I wonder if SSPX would "go for" that. I wish they would! There are quite a few of them and it would be awesome to have us all together. I'm kind of a SSPX sympathizer....
post #113 of 139
3 pregnancy tests have come back negative.
Now I am just waiting on my period.
post #114 of 139
Thread Starter 
Still praying for you, PAL
post #115 of 139
I am not pregnant.
My theory is that I was stressed from finishing my internship and then stressed from the possibility of being pregnant.

*sigh* I know that right now is not the best time, esp since J and I aren't married, but I cannot help but be sad that I am not with child.
On the other hand, this experience has lead J and I to talk more about boundaries in our relationship.

Thanks for your prayers everyone.
post #116 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatienceAndLove View Post
I am not pregnant.
My theory is that I was stressed from finishing my internship and then stressed from the possibility of being pregnant.

*sigh* I know that right now is not the best time, esp since J and I aren't married, but I cannot help but be sad that I am not with child.
On the other hand, this experience has lead J and I to talk more about boundaries in our relationship.

Thanks for your prayers everyone.
Even though I know it is not in the best interests of my family I still always feel a little sad every month to find that I am not pregnant as well. I think it is part and parcel with being a fertile woman? Sounds odd to say, but now that I have studied Theology of the Body and respect my body for its life-bringing potential, I really value it in a way I didn't before I was Catholic.

This is a total aside but my MIL, who is asian and a practicing Buddhist so she has no issues with birth control or even abortion (eeek!) told me that when she went to have her tubes tied that she was so distraught and she was surprised because she had never really wanted children herself, she only had the two because my FIL wanted children. She said she felt as if she were aborting babies that had not yet had a chance to be conceived.

It is that visceral reaction that I think is such a great lesson about these types of situations. No matter what there is an internal drive to want to bring forth life, even if it isn't at the right time or with the right partner. I can appreciate the sacrifice our religious make even more - it is a far larger sacrifice than just avoiding sexual contact with a partner, it is the submission of such a base human instinct to have children.

Big hugs P & L. I'm sure your scare was stressful, it is good that it opened up a convo between you and your boyfriend. s
post #117 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMG580 View Post
Even though I know it is not in the best interests of my family I still always feel a little sad every month to find that I am not pregnant as well. I think it is part and parcel with being a fertile woman? Sounds odd to say, but now that I have studied Theology of the Body and respect my body for its life-bringing potential, I really value it in a way I didn't before I was Catholic.
I totally know the feelin!

Quote:
Big hugs P & L. I'm sure your scare was stressful, it is good that it opened up a convo between you and your boyfriend. s
I wouldn't call it a scare... because to me, scare indicates negativity. We were both excited over the possibility, just a bit surprised. But using NFP makes pregnancy a possibility.
post #118 of 139
So excited, Scott Hahn will be at my parish speaking on Saturday! Just knew you all would understand my excitement!
post #119 of 139
That's awesome! I've never had the honor to hear him in person, but I've listened to some of his lectures on CD. He is a great speaker with an amazing story. Enjoy the talk while the rest of us wish we could be there.
post #120 of 139
hi ladies! I assume by the dates on recent posts that this thread is still sorta going? I don't want to miss a switchover to a "fall/autumn" thread

We had our 6th baby 10 days ago via c-section so I've had a little more computer time as I recover than I otherwise normally would... wanted to say hello!
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