Traditional Catholic Moms Summer 2010 chat - Page 5

[InchByInch]

Originally Posted by PatienceAndLove

Do any of the mamas here have family altars?
I am wondering because J and I are considering creating one in our home, along with a small version for Viv's room (a Mary statue, a Joseph statue, a crucifix and some small saint statues for the family one; the same for Viv, but with saint pics)

We talked about having candles, but are unsure if we should go with a real candle, or a battery operated one. I was thinking a real one for the fam altar, and a battery votive for Viv's room.
Also, flowers- real or silk? It seems like silk would be easier on everyone and a bit cheaper. I think the lord would be forgiving if we have silk flowers because of finances.

We have one by the children's bed, but it's very simple. There are two framed pictures, one of the Immaculate Heart of Mary and one of the Sacred Heart of Jesus. In front of these are three candles (depicting Jesus, Mary and St. Jude), and I light these every morning for our morning prayer. The girls take turns blowing the candles out when we're done (and they're never left unattended with them lit, obviously). They have a handful of prayer cards and a prayer book on the table/altar, too.

We also have a little table in the living room that the girls use as a pretend altar-- they have a Mass kit on there with a little altar cloth and everything. Cute stuff, nothing fancy, but they have fun with it. And I think having silk flowers is a great idea! There are some at Michael's or Hobby Lobby that are quite realistic, IIRC...

[BMG580]

At what age did you start actively teaching your child the most prominent prayers of the Church and start praying the Rosary with them? My DD just turned 5 and she has memorized the Hail Mary and we are working on the Glory Be. My issue is that while she will be able to say them rote from memory she is struggling to understand what they mean.

Should I just leave it alone for now? What are you all doing with your little ones?

[Ofwait]

We have a circle of friends whom we say the rosary with once a week.... Rosary, snacks, playtime.... it makes the kids really look forward to it.
For my kids it took a couple explanations about what the prayers ment, it was really more an explanation of the lesser used big words.
There are a number of publishers that have rosary books for children that do a good job of explaining the prayers and the purpose of the rosary... just ask at your local Catholic bookstore, or check out EWTN.com in their religious catalog.

[PatienceAndLove]

Originally Posted by BMG580

At what age did you start actively teaching your child the most prominent prayers of the Church and start praying the Rosary with them? My DD just turned 5 and she has memorized the Hail Mary and we are working on the Glory Be. My issue is that while she will be able to say them rote from memory she is struggling to understand what they mean.

Should I just leave it alone for now? What are you all doing with your little ones?

Viv has had the Bedtime Prayer (Now I lay me down to sleep...), the Guardian Angel prayer (Angel of God, My Guardian dear...), and learned the Hail Mary and Glory Be last year.
She asked about words like "womb" and such, but not much more than that.
As for the Rosary, I found this blog post and asked a friend to make us bouquet. I think it makes it a bit easier for the wee ones.

[sarahsmiles]

Thanks for the links to articles. I am NOT looking forward to this. I guess I need to talk to her more about the importance of Mass, which I do already, of course, but wow. And I'm thinking it's time to start bringing the toddler, too.

I guess better now than later, huh?

We are "learning" the Hail Mary and the Our Father now at bedtime. She gets to pick a prayer. Mostly she asks for the Guardian Angel prayer, which I still need to help her a bit with, but I point out when in the Mass we say the Our Father, and we always say the Hail Mary when we light a candle at the Mary altar after Mass, so I think she's getting it.

Would love to have a family altar, but am a bit nervous about raising it with DH. We have crucifixes in most rooms but I think much more would rankle his agnostic sensibilities. DD calls holy cards "Pope cards" because her favorites have JPII and B16 on them, I guess, and I can tell he gets a bit uncomfortable at those.

[theboysmama]

Originally Posted by sarahsmiles

DD calls holy cards "Pope cards"

My kids call them "trading cards" and they compare and trade them w/ eachother.

[PatienceAndLove]

This may be the unpopular option-
but in times past, young children were not brought to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass until they were of the Age of Reason- around 7, or so. St. Therese speaks of staying at home while the family attended Mass.
A child's religious education was at home, with emphasis placed on prayers, the family altar, and the importance of the Mass- when he/she was old enough to attend.

Perhaps you can have the children stay at home with DH while you attend Mass. And then take the DD to Adoration to discuss Our Lord in the Eucharist.

[PatienceAndLove]

Originally Posted by theboysmama

My kids call them "trading cards" and they compare and trade them w/ eachother.

Holy Traders

Beautifully designed with classical religious art, every card features a saint or Feast day from the Church calendar and includes a short bio, statistics, and a brief catechism Each high-quality card promotes a saint as a role model or gives information on important Church feast days. The glossy, full color cards contain a short bio, statistics and a brief catechism. Set #5 features 26 cards, including St. Matthew, St. Francis Xavier, All Saints Day and The Conversion of St. Paul. The cards also display beautiful religious art on both front and back from classical artists such as Raphael, Giotto, Murrillo, Reni, Lippi, Fra Angelico, Zurbaran, Saraceni and many more!

[CherryBomb]

Originally Posted by PatienceAndLove

This may be the unpopular option-
but in times past, young children were not brought to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass until they were of the Age of Reason- around 7, or so. St. Therese speaks of staying at home while the family attended Mass.
A child's religious education was at home, with emphasis placed on prayers, the family altar, and the importance of the Mass- when he/she was old enough to attend.

Perhaps you can have the children stay at home with DH while you attend Mass. And then take the DD to Adoration to discuss Our Lord in the Eucharist.

Great point! I generally don't bring my small ones to Mass, and I always think of St. Therese if anyone questions me on it!

[ShellieC]

hi!

Hi Mamas,
I'm new to this thread & just wanted to say hello. I'm a 33 year old married mommy to a 2.5 yr old boy & 1 yr old girl. I live in Calgary, AB (Canada), try to dress modestly & femininely (still working on this, but have come a long way in the past 4 mo!), am considering head-covering at least for prayer times & mass. Oh, we're off birth control too, after SWEARING we'd never have more children last year after I had a horrible VBAC, 2nd degree tearing w/ infection, and a very colicky baby.

My husband is agnostic (believes in God/ a Higher Power, but not religion) & has little respect for the Catholic Church). I was raised in a couple of different denominations of protestant churches, left Christianity for 11 years, and just came back to God in Jan of this year.

I started going to an Alliance church but just didn't feel like it was answering my questions about salvation through faith AND works, and some other things I was struggling with that I was reading in the Bible. Much to my parents horror, I started attending my local RC church after just a month or so of looking into Catholicism. I am in an inquiry/ RCIA group as well, but my baptism isn't considered valid so I may be in the program until Easter 2011!!! That's a long time for me to wait to partake in the Holy Eucharist, but I understand the delay.

For those of you who are converts... what drew you to the Catholic Church instead of Orthodoxy? Also, how did you decide what church to attend? I went to the closest to my house but am wondering if I should have checked out others first before joining the RCIA program. No one wears veils (except 1 woman in her 80's), most women dress immodestly, only maybe 25% of people kneel regularly during mass, and I'm wondering if I'd be more comfortable in a church in which those things are more common. Also the woman leading my inquiry group said that it's a sin to use birth control but that her husband had a vasectomy and they are ok with it, oh... and go to confession at least once a year but she freely admitted to not going last year & wasn't too concerned about it. Just seemed strange to me for someone teaching in the program for people who are so new and seriously considering how these things will affect their lives. Whoops, this ended up long and rambling...sorry!

Nice to meet you all!
Shellie

[Arduinna]

I'm in RCIA also Shellie, as is my husband. We choose our parish because it's the only one in the diocese that has the Latin mass. We are lucky that we found a parish where the RCIA program is faithful to church teaching and has lovely humble people teaching it, our parish deacon is one of the teachers which also helps IMO. I tried RCIA a couple years ago when we lived in another city and wasn't nearly as lucky with that program. I'm glad I found a place that is faithful to the church.

[PatienceAndLove]

Originally Posted by ShellieC

For those of you who are converts... what drew you to the Catholic Church instead of Orthodoxy? Also, how did you decide what church to attend? I went to the closest to my house but am wondering if I should have checked out others first before joining the RCIA program. No one wears veils (except 1 woman in her 80's), most women dress immodestly, only maybe 25% of people kneel regularly during mass, and I'm wondering if I'd be more comfortable in a church in which those things are more common.

Not a lot of women cover, especially in many of the Churches that only offer the new Mass. Those parishes that also offer the Latin Mass usually have a higher population of women who cover.
If the immodesty and lack of kneeling (or reverence) are of a concern to you, perhaps you can visit a few other parishes in your area.

Also the woman leading my inquiry group said that it's a sin to use birth control but that her husband had a vasectomy and they are ok with it, oh... and go to confession at least once a year but she freely admitted to not going last year & wasn't too concerned about it. Just seemed strange to me for someone teaching in the program for people who are so new and seriously considering how these things will affect their lives.

If her husband is Catholic, and has confessed his vasectomy, than they are ok. Men and women are not required to have surgical sterility reversed. She may have mentioned it to put any men with vasectomies at ease. However, you might want to tell her that the way she mentioned it does not sound very in-line with the Church's teachings. Also, some people do not see vasectomies as sinful birth control.
As for the confession thing, that would bother me. A long line at the confessional indicates a very live and reverent Church.

IMHO, I would look into other local parishes. If you are only in the inquiry process, than you have nothing to worry over. And even if you are in the RCIA program, I know many people who left the RCIA program at their parishes several times before taking the big plunge into the Tiber.

And welcome to the Tiber Swim Team!

[ShellieC]

Whoops, in my haste to finish that sentence (baby needing nap) it may have come out judgemental of people who don't show as much devotion, etc. Sorry, that was not my intent! I just didn't realize when I first started going to my current parish that there are differences between them, so have just come to learn that through my reading online. Sorry if I offended anyone! (and if not, I'm Canadian so can't help but apologize just in case)

[cagnew]

Patience: Thanks for the blog link about kids in Mass! I really enjoyed it.

I have to say, I disagree about leaving kids at home. Maybe every once and awhile (I do enjoy going to Mass by myself), but I think kids belong in Mass as often as possible. Adoration too. Have you ever heard of Fr. Antoine? Here is his website- he is a big promoter of children in Mass and adoration. http://www.childrenofhope.org/

Shellie: COngrats on coming to the Church! Welcome home It can be very frustrating looking for a Catholic Church that is orthodox. I would just pray and ask God to lead you where He wants your family to be. In the meantime, it's good to be on guard when learning about the faith. One of the awesome things about the Catholic Church is that all Her teachings are there for you to look up. If something doesn't sound right (right advocating vasectomies), you can look it up pretty easily in the catechism or other Church documents. It's all written down As for the veil, you can wear one even if others don't. It's a little uncomfortable, but you get used to it. A handfull of women wear them at my Church, so I don't mind, but when we travel I always dread going to random churches b/c I feel like I stick out. I wear it anyway and offer it up....

And you are right, the Church encourages us to go to confession frequently. I aim for once a month, but it doesn't always happen. However, the more I read the writings of the saints and about their lives, the more convicted I feel about that. I really need to be stricter in my resolve to go more frequently.... SOrry for the tangent

My husband is a convert and I am kind of a revert. I never renounced my faith, but I went through a period of, uh, rebellion or confusion. I look at my spiritual life as a journey that is continually evolving. I was raised very charasmatic. By the time I left for college (I went to a very charasmatic catholic college) my parents were checking out the Latin Mass. I had a hard time in college and that is when I stopped practicing for the most part. I think it was because I wanted to be part of the charasmatic stuff on campus, but it didn't feel right anymore. And I was against the whole Latin thing because I felt it was over-kill. So I just... didn't do anything (except drink and join a sorority). Fast-forward to now. I am 29 and I have developed a love for the Latin Mass. My husband is a HUGE Latin Mass supporter (we kind of got to this point together) and we drive over an hour to attend Mass.

I guess my point is that you should take it one step at a time. Definetly check out other parishes within reasonable distance. If the RCIA progrma is very liberal and you aren't comfy with it, go to a different one. Like Patient said, you are only in the inquiry period. BUt even if you don't find one that is perfect (and you probably wont), remember that most of your learning is going to happen on your own anyway.

God bless you on your journey!

PS- Congrats on being off birth control! That is awesome. Remember, God won't give you anything you can't handle- that includes kids. If He gives you another baby, He WILL give you the means to take care of it- financial, physical, mental, etc. Another baby is another soul who will be alive for all of eternity! Amazing! That being said, I am preparing for a VBAC and I am terrified. My last birth was very traumatic I am NOT looking forward to birthing this one. At all. I'm happy about the baby, I just wish it would just, uh, appear one night instead of having to be birthed, I am only 15 wks so I have plenty of time to get revved up....

[cagnew]

One more thing- I don't think you offended anyone

I have a tendency to be very blunt when I talk and type, so I end up offending all the time, even though I never mean to. I get it from my Dad I think. I'm kind of practicing silence more now because of it... I just don't have the gift of gentle gab I guess. It's frustrating because I love my Church and I mean well... it just comes out sounding more like Roseanne than Ma Ingals, no matter how hard I try

[theboysmama]

I also agree that children should not be left at home. mass on sunday is a holy obligation that we fulfill as a family. That being said I searched high and low and found a parish that has a childcare during 2 of their sunday masses so we attend the 9:30 mass and leave my little ones (usually 3 and under in there). There is also a sunday school for 3, 4, and 5 yrs that meets 3x a month during the school yr during mass and my kids that are the right age attend that. My older ones attend mass with us and then leave for children's liturgy of the word. This situation insures that my children are all preparing and coming to church on sunday and receiving the same message that we are except in a way that they understand. When there is not sunday school my kids 4 and up attend mass with us and by the time they are not in sunday school at all they are able to attend liturgy of the word for some of the mass and behave well during the rest of the mass. It is what works for our family and I am glad that we have found a parish that provides such a wonderful service.
I am a convert and grew up in the first christian church and there was always day care and sunday school for the younger ones. I think it is important that each family finds what works for them while still teaching their children about respect for our lord.

[mum4boys]

Originally Posted by Ofwait

We have a circle of friends whom we say the rosary with once a week.... Rosary, snacks, playtime.... it makes the kids really look forward to it.
For my kids it took a couple explanations about what the prayers ment, it was really more an explanation of the lesser used big words.
There are a number of publishers that have rosary books for children that do a good job of explaining the prayers and the purpose of the rosary... just ask at your local Catholic bookstore, or check out EWTN.com in their religious catalog.

Sounds like you have a great circle of friends.

[Trigger]

Originally Posted by cagnew

I have to say, I disagree about leaving kids at home. Maybe every once and awhile (I do enjoy going to Mass by myself), but I think kids belong in Mass as often as possible.

A big

I also think that people need to learn to "put up with" (for lack of a better term) children BEING children (to a certain degree) during Mass. Our tiny little parish has LOTS of little kids, and no cry room. There is always a low-level hum of kid activity, which in general is accepted and even appreciated; however, we do have a couple of crochety seniors who tend to harumph about it. I consider it my Christian duty (as a mother of four older children, I've been through it all!) to give the naysayers the hairy eyeball when necessary, and to offer the harried mamas a helping hand (or arms).

[sarahsmiles]

Shellie,

Welcome! I think a lot of us are converts here, and many seem to be not quite on the same page as our DHs, so it's always good to have that support.

Lots of great comments on your other points, but I will address the issue of Orthodoxy. Several of my good friends and I all left the Episcopal (Anglican -- sort of) Church at the same time. Everyone but me and my sponsor joined various Orthodox churches, and one of my very good friends is now an Orthodox priest. It came down to two things for me, one intellectual and one emotional. The intellectual issue was that Christ didn't found a church for Russians, and another for Armenians, and another for Arab Christians. He founded ONE Church! And the emotional issue was that my ancestors had been Catholic, not Orthodox, so it felt a bit poser-y to suddenly adopt this very "exotic" tradition. That's just me.

[BMG580]

For those of you who are converts... what drew you to the Catholic Church instead of Orthodoxy? Also, how did you decide what church to attend? I went to the closest to my house but am wondering if I should have checked out others first before joining the RCIA program. No one wears veils (except 1 woman in her 80's), most women dress immodestly, only maybe 25% of people kneel regularly during mass, and I'm wondering if I'd be more comfortable in a church in which those things are more common. Also the woman leading my inquiry group said that it's a sin to use birth control but that her husband had a vasectomy and they are ok with it, oh... and go to confession at least once a year but she freely admitted to not going last year & wasn't too concerned about it. Just seemed strange to me for someone teaching in the program for people who are so new and seriously considering how these things will affect their lives. Whoops, this ended up long and rambling...sorry!

[This is Charbeau, I changed my username]

Hi there, I am a convert and entered the Church during Easter 2009. I converted without my husband but he has been as supportive as he can be as an agnostic, our children have been baptized and are going to be raised Catholic.

To be honest, I did not spend a lot of time learning about the Orthodox church, though I have been dipping my toe in here and there (Arduinna is doing this too, IIRC) trying to puzzle out the whole filioque situation. I am happy as a Roman Catholic though and I cannot imagine that changing, but truth is really what I'm after not simply loving my Church/parish/priest, etc. enough that I would not leave if I truly believed that the EO had it "right".

Second, I was right where you are a couple years ago and I found that the practice of Catholicism in my area was different than what I was finding online. The community of Traditional Catholics is quite prominent online on Catholic forums and on blogs, I think it is a way to find like-minded people because most parishes have few who are really traditional in practice. There are various expressions of faith that are not required (like wearing a veil for instance) that can be done out of pride or the desire to appear holy which would actually negate the point. Of COURSE, not all the women who wear veil are doing it for prideful reasons! My point here is that I don't think you can really tell how vibrant a person's spiritual life is by their outward appearance. It is hard to not question and judge (I do it too) but a person who chooses to wear jeans to Mass, accepts the Eucharist in their hand and does not kneel is not necessarily a lazy, "liberal" Catholic. We do have a Latin Mass offered at my parish every Sunday but I've yet to go. I have small children and have a hard enough time getting there and keeping everyone settled for the N.O.

As for the woman leading your group and the use of artificial birth control. Please know she is indeed in the wrong, unless the vasectomy was performed during a lapsed period or if she and her husband are well and truly sorry for it and confessed their sin to a priest. The sexual struggle in marriage and the managing of birth spacing can be so incredibly stressful that while I agree wholeheartedly that it is WRONG to use ABC I can absolutely see why people do it. Just like I understand how people can be so frustrated that they scream at their kids or flip someone off while driving and so on. I'm not excusing the use, I am empathizing. It is the same thing with Catholics who do not choose to make use of the Sacrament of Reconciliation, your RCIA leader should feel compelled to go to become unified with Christ in the way that He wants us to meet and ask for forgiveness for what we've done wrong. You will certainly not be incapable of using that sacrament as often as you like once you are Catholic, even if every single other person in your parish just does the yearly stroll through for technicalities sake.

You can and will have a wonderful love affair with Christ if you want it - it is not dependent on the right kind of parish or priest or anything. Those things are important, of course, but unless a parish/priest are not in union with Rome, then the Sacraments are validly performed and the parish needs adherent, hopeful, active members to move forward. YOU can be one of those active, adherent members!

Welcome, please keep us up to date on your RCIA experience. I think the most important part of RCIA for me was being introduced to the Church family and helping me get comfortable diving into the parish community. I learned the bulk of what made me choose to convert on my own. There is so, so much to learn and RCIA cannot possibly do it justice. I know it seems like a long time until Easter but the time will fly and I promise you, these few short months ahead are not nearly enough time to learn everything you are going to be curious about!