Response to being mocked by someone else's kid?

[laohaire]

Just curious.

DH and DD were at the playground. Another father and 2 year old daughter were there too. DH looked up to notice some 10 (?) year old boys pulling trash out of the can and just throwing it around everywhere. The other father said to them "Hey, a lot of little kids play here. Let's keep the garbage in the can." One of the boys mocked him by repeating "Let's keep the garbage in the caaa-aan" in a really childish stupid voice, and the boys sniggered together.

DH was shocked watching this interaction. The other father gave up and moved his daughter to the other side of the playground. I've been thinking about this and still haven't come up with a reasonable response. Everything the man (or my DH, had he chimed in - he wanted to but couldn't think of anything to say either) would have just been mocked back. The boy had all the power and he knew it. How very frustrating and sad for our society.

[heartmama]

Well if a friendly request was not heeded I am not one to back down where little kids are concerned. Throwing garbage around the playground is not going to fly. I would have picked up my cell phone, let the boys know I was calling the sheriff, and then I would have done exactly that. I keep the non emergency number handy for just such purposes. Very effective tactic in my experience.

[Annie Mac]

I know this is the gentle discipline area, & I am not actually suggesting this, but behaviour like that makes me imagine, for an instant, the man knocking their heads together! Or throttling them, a la Homer Simpson.

[Minxie]

Sometimes when children do that, I raise an eyebrow and ask, "Reaaallly?" That will often bring a sense of responsibility to the forefront.

[mamalisa]

"You look familiar, don't I know your mother?" I've used it before and the kid practically left skid marks out of the park.

A well placed "really?" like Minxie suggests works well too.

[Ornery]

After I asked nicely the first time I would have told them that they needed to knock it off and pick up the garbage. If they hadn't listened I would have started asking their parental contact info and if they refused to provide that, I would have called the non emergency number. Not that the cops in my town would respond to that but as a pp said, it can be an effective tactic.

I've had stuff like that happen before and usually a strong response nips it in the bud.

[FurElise19]

Originally Posted by Minxie

Sometimes when children do that, I raise an eyebrow and ask, "Reaaallly?" That will often bring a sense of responsibility to the forefront.

This is me, too. I tend to have too much sarcasm with kids and laugh at the ones who defy me (I'm a teacher). I know it hurts their feelings and I always feel badly when their faces drop.... but it does establish who is in charge.

[mamazee]

I don't honestly know how I'd respond. I live in a small town so I'm hoping I'd recognize him and call his parents. LOL. I'm also wondering how I'd respond to an adult doing that, and I'm not sure of that either. I'm really bad at confrontation. Interesting thread though!

[laohaire]

Sounds like it's not what you say but the attitude you say it with.

I thought about the "your parents will be getting a call from me" idea too, wishing it could be remotely true. The incident happened in a close-knit town, but we are not insiders at all. The kids would have known that. It would have been a bad bluff.

My DH is growing an attitude (parental, adult in charge, etc.) but he's not quite there yet. Like a PP said, the only thing that really popped in his mind was knocking their heads together. (No worries, DH is not that kind of guy).

Reading your responses, I thought about my cousin's husband and wish he could have magically been there. 41 years old and physically very substantial. And he has the attitude. He would have towered over them and said, maybe even with a smile, "Do you want to say that to me again?" And they would have run He's great with kids (loves them), and they all know who's in charge when he's around.

OK, so I have a list of projects going... must add "grow adult-in-charge attitude" to that list.

[intentionalmama]

Originally Posted by laohaire

Just curious.

The other father said to them "Hey, a lot of little kids play here. Let's keep the garbage in the can." One of the boys mocked him by repeating "Let's keep the garbage in the caaa-aan" in a really childish stupid voice, and the boys sniggered together.

This is a frustrating situation.

One suggestion I wanted to make is the idea of trying to make some sort of connection with the kids. ie) Hi, I'm John, looks like you guys are having fun are you playing some sort of game. (something like that) THen follow up with the request - ie) it's really important to keep the garbage in the can -otherwise there can be rats, kids can get sick if they pick something up. I want to make sure that you and the others stay safe. So, can you please stop with the game (or whatever it is) and let's put the stuff back in the can.

My thought is that kids when told by strangers to do something - can feel defensive and when they have no connection with them - can act pretty snotty. They may feel judged, criticized etc. If the person makes a connection with them - perhaps the response would be different.

[Artichokie]

i guess in this case, I would have stood up with my cell phone, gone over and snapped a pic of each kid (or pretended to) and said, "REALLY? because littering is illegal and comes with a hefty fine. And now I have pictures of you doing so which I'll be turning over to the police unless you pick up your mess and leave now."

[4myfinn]

I would have said something really snarky like, "I had no idea playing with garbage was so much fun. Are you perhaps practicing for a future career?"


I know it's horrible, but sometimes the only way to take the power away from someone like that is to turn the tables on them.

[Dandelionkid]

Originally Posted by FurElise19

This is me, too. I tend to have too much sarcasm with kids and laugh at the ones who defy me (I'm a teacher). I know it hurts their feelings and I always feel badly when their faces drop.... but it does establish who is in charge.

Maybe you feel bad about doing it because it is the wrong thing to do. I never felt safe in one classroom growing up because of the use of sarcasm by a teacher. It was never directed at me but it still created a sense of unease. Something to think about

OP- I think you nailed it on the head when you mentioned a persons presence. I could never have budged those boys, no matter what I said, but my DH likely would have.

[bronxmom]

Wow -almost all these responses struck me as so un-gentle. Why do we accept that with our children,especially our young children,that discipline is about teaching, sharing information and gentle guidance but then turn to scare tactics with 10 year olds that are not ours. We don't know anything about these boys - about their intentions, how they felt when told to stop, who they are normally, etc?

Calling cops is so outside my comfort zone that I'd only do it in a situation where I felt my life was actually threatened. Even 10 year olds end up in jail or with records or just taught to feel criminal in our law and order society. I think the posters suggesting this as a possibility can't really have any understanding or experience of what the criminal injustice system does in this country - you can't know about the million plus mostly Black and Latino people locked up on non-violent offense; or the nearly 1,000 children serving life without parole sentences; or the conditions in juvenile detention even for crazily minor "crimes".

I would have done as a previous poster suggested and gently explain exactly why the garbage throwing was a problem. They may not have responded in the moment but individually that respect and knowledge might stick with them. If not,there's little a stranger can do but move away from the situation. But punishment, threats and physical force (or the threat of it) only lock people into a defensive mindset and exacerbate the problem. I'm pretty sure most people on this board accept that idea for their 4 year olds - it holds for 10 year olds you don't know.

[Laggie]

I would probably let it drop rather than escalate it, because the kid is just acting tough to impress his friends and I wouldn't want to degenerate into swearing at them . But I would still think those kids are less likely to do the same thing again, so it's good that somebody called them on it even if the immediate results were less than stellar.

However, my initial wording wouldn't have been nearly that nice. I would tend more towards "Hey, knock it off" and that's if I was feeling polite. "Let's keep the garbage in the can" would be how I would address toddlers, not kids who are old enough to know better.

[hakeber]

If I was presented with the intial scenario I would do what I have done when presented with seemingly outrageous behavior on the campuses I have taught on. I would ask them why.

I think I would have walked over to them, and looked them in the eyes and waited for them to see me, and said "Can you explain to me why you are emptying the trash can all over my child's favorite park?"

If they could give me answer I would work with them on a solution for achieving whatever goal they had with out destroying the park, or that included some sort of pick up procedure afterwards.

If they could not give me an answer I would say "Okay, You need to stop that. This is a safe place for kids to play and you are making it dirty and unsafe. Stop. Now. Please." and then given them my (so far) fool proof stare that seems to make people look deep inside themselves and question their poor behavior/choices.

If they sassed me ( I always feel like my grandpa when I say that...tee hee) I would probably do what I do with my son when he sasses me, which is to model the words I think they should use to adress me.

For example in this case if the boy mimicked me I would say "Pardon me ma'am, I don't feel we need explain ourselves to you. Please mind your own business."

and wait. They might be contrite and start acting like people rather than cretins, but if they didn't then I would go on to say "I understand that you don't think you ought to explain your behavior to me, a total stranger, I get that, but this is a public park, protected under the jurisdiction of the towns people and what you are doing is indeed my business because this park is in my town, a township to which I pay thousands of dollars in taxes every year and I have a need for the park to be a safe place for my children to play..." yadda yadda yadda. You see because they can't mimic you in a snotty voice if you lecture them endlessly and use big words.

Best case scenario is that one of them might listen to a fraction of the speech, worst case scenario is they get bored and walk away rolling their eyes at you.

This is how I tend to handle sassiness from my kids (both biological and in my classes.) First model, then wait for self-modification, then as a last resort bore them to death.

That last part is not GD by any means, but it diffuses the situation and tends to put a stop to bad behavior in the moment, which is sometimes the best you can do.

If I thought local cops would do anything I would probably call them on the sly just to ask them to do a walk by, not harass the kids or anything, but sometimes, just the sight of a police car makes people act better. It's sort of like the psychological study about cheating...that if a student is reminded of the moral failure of cheating at the start of an exam they are much less likely to cheat, hence why one Psych professor starts every exam with: How would your family feel if they found out you cheated on this exam A) disappointed, B) disgusted C) proud or D) apathetic. Obviously it doesn't work that way for everyone, but for many people a short visual or aural reminder of one's super ego is the key. Of course I think most police departments would just laugh at me if I tried that.

[philomom]

Originally Posted by heartmama

Well if a friendly request was not heeded I am not one to back down where little kids are concerned. Throwing garbage around the playground is not going to fly. I would have picked up my cell phone, let the boys know I was calling the sheriff, and then I would have done exactly that. I keep the non emergency number handy for just such purposes. Very effective tactic in my experience.

I have my police non-emergency number in my cellphone, too. This mama means business!

[JessicaS]

I would have told them to pick up the trash.

I was a lifeguard and also worked in a comic/card shop with a lot of pre-teens/teens hanging out so that age of boys is something I am ok with generally. A lot of smart kids do dumb things in groups.

[laohaire]

(OP back). I interpreted this situation through the lens of peer orientation. I personally didn't feel like the problem was that the father was not gentle or respectful enough in his request, but obviously that's subjective (I wasn't even a witness to this myself though I was at the park; DH told me about it).

As I intepret it, you have 2 peer oriented kids together. There was nothing that any adult could have said, no matter how gentle or how well-explained, that would have gotten that kid to value the grownup's direction over impressing his friend. In fact, it seems likely to me that they were dumping the trash in the specific HOPE that a grownup would say something, so they could prove how tough (peer-oriented) they were. I mean, I have a hard time seeing any other play value in dumping trash. DH didn't get the idea they were looking for anything, just having fun being destructive (and maybe hoping to attract enough attention to prove their toughness - "look at me, I can destroy and you can't do anything about it").

So that's why I was thinking, what on earth do you do with that? Fact is, that even if you said something so wonderful and kind and gentle and respectful and actually got through enough to touch their hearts - what would their FRIENDS think if they actually started picking up the trash?? (Or even just walked away with no further confrontation?)

I don't think some stranger in the park can, in a few minutes, re-orient a peer-oriented 10 year old to adults/parental figures. So it seems like the choices are to either drop it or intimidate them (tower over them like my cousin, threaten to call parents or police). Or maybe humiliate them enough that they choose to drop it rather than risk looking dumb in front of their friend ("practicing for your profession?" - though I think they would actually relish this response because more banter can easily follow).

Personally I'm not thrilled with any of those options. I guess I'd rather threaten the police than roll over and play dead to a couple of 10 year olds (and thus reward them greatly for their peer orientation - they will walk away feeling like kings for being total jerks). But it's not that I think it's a great option that will leave them with a positive learning experience or anything.

Well, they've been saying it forever - what's happened to kids these days?? (That's a rhetorical question!)

[hakeber]

But maybe they were looking for something, otherwise why didn't they just knock the thing down or dump the containing bag over? What does it cost to ask and take an interest in a genuine non-threateniong way first?

I think it's very dangerous to believe the hype we are fed that "kids these day" are up to no good, just menacing thugs looking for a fight.

Seems to me they may just be looking for someone to give a toss and to listen.

But I wasn't there. This is all hypothetical for us, right?

ETA: You're right about peer orientation, but I think that's part of the problem. Kids these days and since forever have never felt like "peers" to older members of society, have always felt their power and their voice stifled. I believe part of the parenting philosophy here at MDC is to break that cycle of ageism and oppression, of passive violence against children in our society and to start to look for new ways to approach these situations.

ETATA: you could for example go up to where they are dumping trash and as they toss it out, pick it up with a calm demeanor and put it in a bag (I always have a spare plastic bag in my purse for rubbish or puke anyway) or back in the trash can and simply stay there cleaning up their mess until they either started talking or walked away. Just that you can also model through actions if you think words aren't getting through. It is unlikely they would physically attack you, and if you felt they would then it is warranted to call an authority for help.