Mornings!!!

[tomtemama]

I would really appreciate your perspectives on a situation that is on going in our house.

Our mornings are out of control. My dd1 and dd2 who are 6 3/4 and 4 share a room. This is necessary as we live in a 2 bedroom house with no room to spare. Dh and I co-sleep with dd3. Almost every morning dd1 or dd2 wakes up at around 5 am and wakes up the other. After this early wake up they are both extremely tired and cranky. They fight and hit and yell and scream. Dd2 finally resorts to coming in and waking us up in tears and then laying on the floor and yelling "Maaaaaama" over and over in an effort to wake me up. I notice a marked difference in this behaviour when they sleep until 7 which, I think, would be a healthy time for them to be waking up.

Dh and I finally resorted to setting an alarm for a time that we feel is an acceptable time for us to wake up and the girls agreed that if they got up early they would play quietly until the alarm went of. This worked well for about a week then we went right back to the yelling .

I feel that my hands are completely tied. There is no way for me to stop them from waking each other up and there is no way that I can get up at 5 am everyday. The baby does sleep through most of this ruckus (thank goodness) but does need me to be in bed with her to nurse her on and off. I know that if I punished them for screaming and hitting that they would probably stop but I do not believe in punishing my children to change their behaviour. This has gone on for too long (about a year) and I need it to stop. PLEASE help me!!!!!

[ssh]

What time do they go to bed? At 4 and 6 their normal sleep needs are 10 to 12 hours total per day. Is it usually the same DD waking up? Maybe one needs more sleep than the other. My 4.5 year is a total grump if she's even a half hour short of 10 hours of sleep. Do they have white noise in their room? Could one 'camp out' in the living room and sleep on the sofa?

[mamazee]

At that age, even the age of your youngest, I would let my dd get up and do something in the family room so long as it was quiet. Though I told her to wait until 6. But I'd even let her watch TV for a while in the morning. I had some appropriate breakfast stuff she could get on her own (hard boiled eggs, fruit, I don't remember all of the specifics). This is obviously complicated in your situation because you have two of them playing off each other, but I wonder if they were allowed to go into your family room (or wherever) so long as they stayed quiet, if they might let you sleep.

[Drummer's Wife]

I'm also wondering what time they go to bed. I can't imagine my kids waking up that early (early for them is 8:15 on school days when I have to wake them up). Are they getting enough sleep (10-12 hours?)

I would definitely talk to them about not waking the sleeping one, and that she can go to the living room/kitchen quietly until everyone else wakes up. Or having some kind or rule that they can't get out of bed until at least the sun is up.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

I too would be OK with them getting up and watching TV or something else quiet at that age. Especially if that would get one of them up and out of the room before waking the other one.

I'm with you on punishing, but I do think there are some other options, depending on your approach to the world. A natural consequence of waking up mom unpleasently is a grumpy mom who doesn't want to go out and do fun things. I wouldn't shield them from this reality.

This also seems like a reasonable place to use some sort of reward system. Maybe a week of not waking you up before X time earns something special? Not necessarily a thing, perhaps an outing? Special time with mom? Maybe even something they would both enjoy and participate in without the baby, so they have to cooperate?

[tomtemama]

Thank you for all your thoughtful responses. They both get into bed at around 7 and "read" books until they decide they would like to go to sleep. They are usually both asleep by 8.

We have a very strict no TV policy so TV is out. They do have access to the entire house except for our room. We set snacks out for them in the morning. The food does seem to help a little but only when they wake up a bit later. Also, along with not punishing we also do not reward. So rewards for "good behaviour" are also not going to work in our instance.

Having one sleep in the livingroom is something that I am considering. Although, it has become clear that the major problem is that dd2 does not ever want to be alone. She would have to be the one who slept on the coach, as she is the only one that we can carry out there after we have finished using the room for the night. Our house is very small at about 800 square feet so she would not be able to fall asleep on the coach. Most likely she will just wake dd1 up as soon as she's awake so she doesn't have to be alone, though.

Dh has decided that he may try getting into the lower bunk with dd2 when she wakes up to try to help her fall back asleep. I think that this is likely going to be the best solution for now.

[crowcaw]

This is a weird suggestion, but my 4.5 yo's not always but often wake up at 5:30 and don't go back to sleep (though they do stay in their rooms until 6:30 with the help of a color changing alarm clock). Every now and then though they wake up around 4am to go to the bathroom and when they do they always sleep until 6:30 or 7 and get the sleep they need. On occassion I've intentionally woken them around 4 and it works; they sleep later. The drawback is I have to wake up at 4 and I haven't been very good at it.

[spmamma]

DD wakes up sometime around 5 a.m. every morning. She's 3 and very spirited, so it's not simply a matter of *making* her stop her behavior. We've really had to work around it. Like your DD, she doesn't want to be alone so it's not simply a matter of asking her to stay in her room. She *needs* to be around us.

We solved the problem (sort of) by putting her old crib mattress on our bedroom floor. She knows that she is allowed to come into our room as long as she gets into bed and lays quietly. This allows me, DH and DS to sleep in our bed just a little longer. Can you tuck a sleeping bag or two underneath your bed and tell your kids that whoever wakes up first can come into your room as long as she lays quietly without talking?

DH wakes up for work around 5:30, so she's up with him and ends up waking me and DS up by 5:45 or so. I'm a cranky girl in the morning, so I'm having to work very hard to train myself not to get angry when she wakes me up before my body is ready. That, and like you I've got a nursing baby in bed next to me and he always wakes up within 5 or 10 minutes of me leaving the bed.

These days, I'm just tired. Wish I had some fabulous advice that would solve your problem...

[Knitting Mama]

Oddly enough, Moxie talks about early wakings today...maybe something in here will help?

[hakeber]

I was thinking the same thing Spmamma. DS cannot sleep late if he has someone else in his room. when he and his cousin or his gran or a friend have been in there, he wakes up on average 2 hours early than normal and is just so excited to see someone else he feels he must wake them to share the moment.

So when we have guests now we keep an air matress trundled under our bed so if/when he wakes up he can come in and sleep on the floor in our room. I also have a basket of crayons and paper in there so if he's not sleepy anymore he can draw quietly next to us.

It usually only means another quiet hour for me before he wants breakfast and someone to start the day with...

Here's an idea, what if you left her a wee snack and a cup of milk or juice next to her bed for the morning? Sometimes ds is happy to go back to sleep with us if he can just top off his tummy, especially during growth spells. Maybe a handful of nuts, or a piece of fruit?

eta: I see you do leave a snack...is it possible to leave it bedside, and state that she has to have a snack and a juice before waking her sister up?

[mom2grrls]

What if DD2 sleeps in your room so that if she wakes she is not alone and perhaps may settle back to sleep?

[Kindermama]

I don't see setting a boundary as punishing. If this is effecting the whole family, then there needs to be a family discussion. If you've already done this, then I suggest having your 4 year old sleep in your room/come to your room and at the very least, give them both a heads up that you will have to do that if they cannot let each other sleep in the morning!

[reezley]

My boys are 3.5 and 5.5, share a bedroom, their bedtime is similar to your dds, they wake up generally between 6:30 and 7:30. Any earlier and we really notice the effect. We let them turn on the TV in the morning, which definitely helped to keep them from waking others... but without that solution, here's my checklist of ideas for what it's worth:
1) If you do computer games (starfall.com, etc.) at your house, that could be something one could go do in the morning?
2) Set out a different "fun" breakfast snack, and/or a new quiet activity (my guys like mazes or dot-to-dot pages, that sort of thing) that they can look forward to discovering. It's not a reward - it's a fun surprise!
3) Less water before bedtime, more food/bedtime snack to stave off hunger in the morning. Might help to keep them sleeping longer?
4) Room-darkening shades to keep out the early summer sun.
5) New selection of books from the library to discover somewhere cozy in the morning to enjoy with the snack.

Best of luck - it's hard to not have separate rooms!

[dawncayden]

audio books? music with head phones? new library books? new colouring book?