Mothering Forum banner

Parenting Agreement-Need feedback-#30 Updated Version

3K views 43 replies 16 participants last post by  nemawei 
#1 ·
Okay, this is going to be really long. But I want to make sure I'm not totally out in left field, or if I missed something really important, etc... Please give me your feedback.
Thank you so much for all of your help!!!
~~~~~~

General Philosophy
We care about the well-being of our children. We shall put our children's needs first in all aspects of their life, growth and development. We realize we both are very important to our children and they need each of us as an active parent throughout their lives. We will give our children permission to love, and be proud of, the other parent. We expect each child is an individual and may have different needs and that their needs will change as they grow older.

As the developmental and life needs will change drastically over the next few years, it is understood that this agreement is geared specifically to the baby/toddler years and will need to be regularly modified as the children grow.

We agree to raise our children in a respectful and gentle manner. This includes:
No physical punishments! Re-direction is to be used until child has reached a developmental stage to understand natural consequences.

If a time-out is deemed necessary, only to be used once child is old enough to understand this type of consequence, time out is only one minute per year age of child. Example, a two year old would have a two minute time-out.

All consequences should be delivered in love, and talked about with child to ensure they understand what was done wrong and that you still love them unconditionally.

We agree not use the Crying It Out method. The child should never be left alone to cry.

Legal & Physical Custody and Major Decision Making

Legal Custody
We will have joint legal custody. Meaning all major decisions in regards to education, medical and religion will be decided together. If an agreement cannot be reached, it is agreed to seek out a mediator. Costs for mediation will be split 50/50.

Physical Custody
We will have shared physical custody, with JSMa, mother, retaining the primary residence at ~address~, as the custodial parent. STBX, father, will have reasonable visitation (detailed under parenting schedule), taking the child's best interest into consideration, as the non-custodial parent.

Medical Care
Both of us agree to consult with one another concerning medical and dental insurance. We will determine which has the best plan and, if in agreement, obtain that plan. We agree to share the cost of that plan for the children in a 50/50 split.(note, this part may change when we go to domestics) We further agree to divide and pay any uncovered costs on a 50/50 basis. Explanation of Benefits and invoices will be tracked, and amounts will be discussed quarterly to set up 50% payment reimbursement to the parent that paid for treatment.

It is agreed that JSMa will set up appointments and inform STBX of the dates and times. Either parent, or both will accompany child to appointment, as schedules allow. This will be discussed when JSMa informs STBX of appointment time.

Emergencies
Each parent is required to notify the other parent immediately of any medical emergency. The parent present is authorized to sign legal consents for both parents to permit emergency intervention.

Information
On any emergency information sheet, each parent will list the other as the first person to contact if he or she is not reachable.

Parenting/Visitation Schedule

Visitation Schedule for DD
DD will spend every other weekend with STBX (on same weekends as her older sister). STBX will pick up DD from her daycare at approximately 3:30 pm Friday afternoon, until 10:00 am Sunday morning.

STBX is also welcome to visit with DD during the week, Monday through Thursday, between the hours of 4:00 pm to 7:00 pm, when his schedule allows. He is to give JSMa at least 24 hour notice if he plans to visit during this time, so she can ensure her and DD do not have conflicting plans and are home. If plans conflict, STBX will have to request a new time to visit.

Visitation Schedule for DS
DS will be primarily in JSMa's care for at least the first 6 months from birth. No overnights are to take place until DS is eating solid foods in addition to breast milk, and also sleeping through the night (waking no more than once per night).

STBX is encouraged to visit DS daily between the hours of 3:00 pm and 7:00 pm Monday through Friday, at primary residence, and may visit as much as he likes on Saturday and Sunday. All visits should be given at least a 24 hour notice. If plans conflict with the requested visit, STBX is to request a different time to visit. It is understood that the baby may be napping and/or breastfeeding during the visit hours, but JSMa will accommodate for as much bonding time to happen with STBX during the visits.

Once DS is on solid foods and sleeping through the night, approximately 6 months of age, we will progressively work towards overnight visits. This will start with STBX taking DS for 4-6 hour spans on every other Saturday (on weekends he has older daughter for visits) for at least two months time.

If DS is doing well, it can progress to 6-8 hours on every other Saturday for at least two months time.

If DS is doing well, it can progress to 8-12 hours on every other Saturday for at least two months time.

If DS is doing well, it can progress to DS going from 10:00 am Saturday morning until 10:00 am Sunday morning for one overnight, every other weekend, for at least two months time.

If DS is doing well, it can progress to same schedule as his sister at this time.

It is understood that if at anytime it is apparent that DS is not adjusting well, example, excessive screaming/crying fits, showing anxiety, etc, JSMa is to be called and the visit is to be cut short. If DS is showing signs that he/she is not quite ready for a longer visit, another month will be added onto whichever hour/overnight visitation stage he is at.

It is understood that this visitation schedule for DS takes precedence over any of the holiday schedules listed.

Holiday Schedules

Memorial Day, Independence Day and Labor Day
We agree to consult one another about any family plans we may have for any of these holidays. The consultation should take place at least two weeks prior to the date, to ensure time for planning and any resolutions that need to be made. Whoever has a family commitment/picnic/vacation will get precedence for the holiday time. If both parents have commitments, when at all possible, if the times of the events allow the child to attend both events, the parents should strive to make this happen, to ensure family bonds for the child. If times/event do not allow the child to attend both, the parent that did not get the last non/religious/familial holiday will have precedence for holiday time.

If the holiday time creates one parent having three weekend visits in a row, it is understood that the following weekend after the holiday (the would be third weekend) will be adjusted to the other parents time.

Halloween - Trick-or-Treat
Trick-or-Treating will not start until child is two years of age, minimum. At this time we will switch every other year for who will take the children trick-or-treating. The parent whose year it is can determine location. The other parent is always welcome and encouraged to go with.

Easter/ Thanksgiving/Christmas
It has been decided that Easter/Thanksgiving/Christmas will be held at the primary residence until the younger child is two years of age. STBX is welcome and encouraged to come share the holiday festivities with his children. After youngest child is two years of age, these holidays will be shared every other year, as per the following times:

Easter
6:00 pm the evening before until 6:00 pm Easter day

Christmas
6:00 Christmas Eve until 6:00 Christmas Day

Thanksgiving
Thanksgiving Day 10:00 am until 6:00 pm

Family Obligations
JSMa's family has two major family events a year that should be accommodated for the children to attend to ensure family bonds. Every Saturday of Father's Day weekend is her maternal family reunion. This does not interfere with Father's Day itself, and will be JSMa's day with the children so they can attend their family reunion.

In December, JSMa's family also hosts a family Christmas party on one of the Saturdays in the month. It should be accommodated for JSMa to have the children on this Saturday for the children to attend to ensure family bonds.

Father's Day/Mother's Day/Parents Birthday
Each parent will get the children on their respective holiday day from 9:00 am to 6:00 pm.

Each parent will choose a weekend day either one weekend before or after their birthday that they wish to celebrate their birthday, it if does not fall on a weekend day, and accommodations will be made to ensure the parent will get the children for that weekend day from 9:00 am to 6:00 pm, if it is not during their normal visit schedule.

Additional Visitation Schedule Agreements
Although our children need living arrangements that are predictable, if something unexpected or unavoidable comes up, we shall give each other as much notice as possible. If we are unable to agree on a change to the schedule, the visitation schedule shall be followed. If this results in the need for child care, the scheduled parent shall make the child care arrangements and pay the cost.

We recognize that decision making is an important part of parenting. We agree that the parent our children are with (the "on-duty" parent) will make decisions about their day-to-day care.

If STBX is late picking children up from daycare on scheduled pick-ups on every other Friday, he is responsible for all charges past normal time.

If child cannot go to daycare due to sickness, each parent takes turns to miss work.

We shall arrive on time (no more than 20 minutes early or late) to drop off and pick up of our children.

Our children's clothing, and special belongings will travel with them and parents should make sure all items are returned with child at pick-ups.

Out of Town Travel
If parent is planning on going overnight out of town anywhere with the children, the other parent should be notified. The parent with the children in their care should be able to be reached by phone in case of any emergencies at all times, and should provide alternate numbers if there is no cell phone service.

Parental Cooperation
Children need both of their parents' love and support.

We agree to leave our children out of adult discussions about our parenting plan and all other aspects of our separation/divorce/break-up.

We will not discuss the other parent in a negative way in the presence of or within the hearing range of our children and will not allow others to do so. We will advise others about the importance of not speaking negatively about either parent around our children.

Direct Communications. We will discuss our concerns directly with the other parent without our children present.

Expectations and Routines. We agree to support consistent expectations and routines for our children, which include shared expectations regarding bed-time, television, and discipline.

We agree on the following expectations:
- Bed time shall be no later than 8:30 pm
- No television until over two years of age (note, this does not mean the TV cannot be on around them, simply that the child should never be put in front of the TV specifically for them to watch it at this age).
- Television time should be limited to no more than two hours a day over the age of two, unless for special circumstances, such as a sleepover movie-thon, or the child is feeling sick and needs to lay down and rest.
- Discipline: There is to be NO physical punishments of any kind. All guidance should be given with love and respect for the child, with explanations as to why something they did wasn't a good thing to do. Example: "No biting. Biting hurts people. If you need to bite, please chew on this washcloth."

Communication
All communications about the children shall be written in a communication book, which shall pass with the children as they pass between households. In it are to be noted important events/milestones of the previous week, the child's health and need for current medication, and upcoming appointments that may effect the children's scheduling. Requests for adjustments in parenting times may also be entered. While each parent is encouraged to respond to all requests within 48 hours, silence in regard to a request shall be considered a "yes". The book may not be used to criticize either parent's behavior.

Right of First Refusal
If either parent will not be available to be present for more than two hours of their parenting time, that time should be offered to the other parent before any other care options are sought out.

Safety
STBX agrees to enroll in a parenting class, as recommended by his counselor, to help guide him in healthy and gentle parenting choices.

STBX agrees to stay in counseling that is geared to anger management.

We shall not use, nor allow anyone else to use, physical discipline with our children, ever!

Neither parent shall allow our children to be in the presence of smoking of any kind.

Our children are to never be around XX, the paternal step grandfather, without themselves being present with him.

We agree to not leave our children in the sole care of any significant others, until the relationship has reached at least six months, and the other parent has been given the option to meet with the new partner and feel out their parenting philosophy. We are to respect each others need to feel safe and trusting with who our children are left in the care of.

Conflict Resolution
1. Should any disputes arise between us or the children in the areas of education, health care, childcare, religious training, operation of a motor vehicle, extra-curricular activities, vacations, or other significant issues, we agree that it is in the best interests of the children and ourselves to resolve any disputes. All such decisions must be made jointly or arbitrated. They may not be made unilaterally by either parent. Should either of us wish to modify this agreement, we agree to:

2. Meet and confer with one another, each to present to the other a proposed solution to the dispute. If there is no resolution at this step, we will then:

3. Meet and confer with an expert in the field related to the dispute, e.g., doctor, teacher, counselor, etc. If there is no resolution at this step, we will then:

4. Meet and confer with a mediator/counselor who has had experience in dispute resolution. All concerned shall use their best efforts to resolve the issues. Should there be no resolution at this step, we will then:

5. Submit the matter to a Special Master for mediation/arbitration prior to returning to court. If there is no resolution at this step, we will then:

6. Only in the event that we still cannot agree will we submit the matter to a Court of competent jurisdiction. We understand that this is an extraordinary step and will be resorted to only when there is no other way to resolve the problem.

7. This section shall apply to all parts of this agreement.

8. Until there is resolution of any dispute that may arise concerning this agreement, the operative terms of this agreement shall remain in full force and effect.

9. Any related costs to having to seek third party resolution help shall be shared 50/50.

Review of Agreement
1. Three years from time of signing of this agreement, the custody recommendations shall be reviewed and modified as needed.

2. It is understood that any parts that we cannot agree upon will follow the Conflict Resolution definitions of this agreement.
 
See less See more
1
#2 ·
Do you mean for this to be an agreement between the 2 of you or the parenting plan you file with the court? If the latter the judge may not allow it as a lot of this stuff is not enforceable.

I tried for a lot of this same stuff. X said no to most of it, and the mediator said the judge wouldn't allow anything that was not enforceable anyway.
 
#3 ·
Overall these are nice ideas, JSMa. But if you and STBX were truly on the same page about all this stuff, would you feel compelled to put it in writing? Would you even be divorcing him?

Assuming these parenting ideals come more from you than from him, I think you need to get your head around the fact that you cannot ensure your daughters are parented the same way at their father's house that they will be, with you. That just doesn't happen in divorce. As I mentioned to you once before, you can't have your cake and eat it, too.

Go ahead and try, if you like this agreement and he'll sign it. But even if the court approves it, there will not be anything you can do when you discover that he loses his patience sometimes, being alone with 2-3 young girls (so all his discipline is not "loving"), or that he lets the baby watch Hannah Montana with her older sisters when she's 18 months old. I understand the desire for control. But I think you're setting yourself up for extra stress, by having impractical expectations that such a carefully-worded agreement will force STBX to always act the way you want him to, when you're not around.
 
#4 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post
General Philosophy
We care about the well-being of our children. We shall put our children's needs first in all aspects of their life, growth and development. We realize we both are very important to our children and they need each of us as an active parent throughout their lives. We will give our children permission to love, and be proud of, the other parent. We expect each child is an individual and may have different needs and that their needs will change as they grow older.

As the developmental and life needs will change drastically over the next few years, it is understood that this agreement is geared specifically to the baby/toddler years and will need to be regularly modified as the children grow.

Legal & Physical Custody and Major Decision Making

Legal Custody
We will have joint legal custody. Meaning all major decisions in regards to education, medical and religion will be decided together. If an agreement cannot be reached, it is agreed to seek out a mediator. Costs for mediation will be split 50/50.

Physical Custody
We will have shared physical custody, with JSMa, mother, retaining the primary residence at ~address~, as the custodial parent. STBX, father, will have reasonable visitation (detailed under parenting schedule), taking the child's best interest into consideration, as the non-custodial parent.

Medical Care
Both of us agree to consult with one another concerning medical and dental insurance. We will determine which has the best plan and, if in agreement, obtain that plan. We agree to share the cost of that plan for the children in a 50/50 split.(note, this part may change when we go to domestics) We further agree to divide and pay any uncovered costs on a 50/50 basis. Explanation of Benefits and invoices will be tracked, and amounts will be discussed quarterly to set up 50% payment reimbursement to the parent that paid for treatment.

It is agreed that JSMa will set up appointments and inform STBX of the dates and times. Either parent, or both will accompany child to appointment, as schedules allow. This will be discussed when JSMa informs STBX of appointment time.

Emergencies
Each parent is required to notify the other parent immediately of any medical emergency. The parent present is authorized to sign legal consents for both parents to permit emergency intervention.

Information
On any emergency information sheet, each parent will list the other as the first person to contact if he or she is not reachable.

Parenting/Visitation Schedule

Visitation Schedule for DD
DD will spend every other weekend with STBX (on same weekends as her older sister). STBX will pick up DD from her daycare at approximately 3:30 pm Friday afternoon, until 10:00 am Sunday morning.

STBX is also welcome to visit with DD during the week, Monday through Thursday, between the hours of 4:00 pm to 7:00 pm, when his schedule allows. He is to give JSMa at least 24 hour notice if he plans to visit during this time, so she can ensure her and DD do not have conflicting plans and are home. If plans conflict, STBX will have to request a new time to visit.

Visitation Schedule for DS
DS will be primarily in JSMa's care for at least the first 6 months from birth. No overnights are to take place until DS is eating solid foods in addition to breast milk, and also sleeping through the night (waking no more than once per night).

STBX is encouraged to visit DS daily between the hours of 3:00 pm and 7:00 pm Monday through Friday, at primary residence, and may visit as much as he likes on Saturday and Sunday. All visits should be given at least a 24 hour notice. If plans conflict with the requested visit, STBX is to request a different time to visit. It is understood that the baby may be napping and/or breastfeeding during the visit hours, but JSMa will accommodate for as much bonding time to happen with STBX during the visits.

Once DS is on solid foods and sleeping through the night, approximately 6 months of age, we will progressively work towards overnight visits. This will start with STBX taking DS for 4-6 hour spans on every other Saturday (on weekends he has older daughter for visits) for at least two months time.

If DS is doing well, it can progress to 6-8 hours on every other Saturday for at least two months time.

If DS is doing well, it can progress to 8-12 hours on every other Saturday for at least two months time.

If DS is doing well, it can progress to DS going from 10:00 am Saturday morning until 10:00 am Sunday morning for one overnight, every other weekend, for at least two months time.

If DS is doing well, it can progress to same schedule as his sister at this time.

It is understood that if at anytime it is apparent that DS is not adjusting well, example, excessive screaming/crying fits, showing anxiety, etc, JSMa is to be called and the visit is to be cut short. If DS is showing signs that he/she is not quite ready for a longer visit, another month will be added onto whichever hour/overnight visitation stage he is at.

It is understood that this visitation schedule for DS takes precedence over any of the holiday schedules listed.

Holiday Schedules

Memorial Day, Independence Day and Labor Day
We agree to consult one another about any family plans we may have for any of these holidays. The consultation should take place at least two weeks prior to the date, to ensure time for planning and any resolutions that need to be made. Whoever has a family commitment/picnic/vacation will get precedence for the holiday time. If both parents have commitments, when at all possible, if the times of the events allow the child to attend both events, the parents should strive to make this happen, to ensure family bonds for the child. If times/event do not allow the child to attend both, the parent that did not get the last non/religious/familial holiday will have precedence for holiday time.

If the holiday time creates one parent having three weekend visits in a row, it is understood that the following weekend after the holiday (the would be third weekend) will be adjusted to the other parents time.

Halloween - Trick-or-Treat
At this time we will switch every other year for who will take the children trick-or-treating. The parent whose year it is can determine location. The other parent is always welcome and encouraged to go with.

Easter/ Thanksgiving/Christmas
It has been decided that Easter/Thanksgiving/Christmas will be held at the primary residence until the younger child is two years of age. STBX is welcome and encouraged to come share the holiday festivities with his children. After youngest child is two years of age, these holidays will be shared every other year, as per the following times:

Easter
6:00 pm the evening before until 6:00 pm Easter day

Christmas
6:00 Christmas Eve until 6:00 Christmas Day

Thanksgiving
Thanksgiving Day 10:00 am until 6:00 pm

Family Obligations
JSMa's family has two major family events a year that should be accommodated for the children to attend to ensure family bonds. Every Saturday of Father's Day weekend is her maternal family reunion. This does not interfere with Father's Day itself, and will be JSMa's day with the children so they can attend their family reunion.

In December, JSMa's family also hosts a family Christmas party on one of the Saturdays in the month. It should be accommodated for JSMa to have the children on this Saturday for the children to attend to ensure family bonds.

Father's Day/Mother's Day/Parents Birthday
Each parent will get the children on their respective holiday day from 9:00 am to 6:00 pm.

Each parent will choose a weekend day either one weekend before or after their birthday that they wish to celebrate their birthday, it if does not fall on a weekend day, and accommodations will be made to ensure the parent will get the children for that weekend day from 9:00 am to 6:00 pm, if it is not during their normal visit schedule.

Additional Visitation Schedule Agreements
Although our children need living arrangements that are predictable, if something unexpected or unavoidable comes up, we shall give each other as much notice as possible. If we are unable to agree on a change to the schedule, the visitation schedule shall be followed. If this results in the need for child care, the scheduled parent shall make the child care arrangements and pay the cost.

We recognize that decision making is an important part of parenting. We agree that the parent our children are with (the "on-duty" parent) will make decisions about their day-to-day care.

If STBX is late picking children up from daycare on scheduled pick-ups on every other Friday, he is responsible for all charges past normal time.

If child cannot go to daycare due to sickness, each parent takes turns to miss work.

We shall arrive on time (no more than 20 minutes early or late) to drop off and pick up of our children.

Our children's clothing, and special belongings will travel with them and parents should make sure all items are returned with child at pick-ups.

Out of Town Travel
If parent is planning on going overnight out of town anywhere with the children, the other parent should be notified. The parent with the children in their care should be able to be reached by phone in case of any emergencies at all times, and should provide alternate numbers if there is no cell phone service.

Parental Cooperation
Children need both of their parents' love and support.

We agree to leave our children out of adult discussions about our parenting plan and all other aspects of our separation/divorce/break-up.

We will not discuss the other parent in a negative way in the presence of or within the hearing range of our children and will not allow others to do so. We will advise others about the importance of not speaking negatively about either parent around our children.

Direct Communications. We will discuss our concerns directly with the other parent without our children present.

Communication
All communications about the children shall be written in a communication book, which shall pass with the children as they pass between households. In it are to be noted important events/milestones of the previous week, the child's health and need for current medication, and upcoming appointments that may effect the children's scheduling. Requests for adjustments in parenting times may also be entered. While each parent is encouraged to respond to all requests within 48 hours, silence in regard to a request shall be considered a "yes". The book may not be used to criticize either parent's behavior.

Right of First Refusal
If either parent will not be available to be present for more than two hours of their parenting time, that time should be offered to the other parent before any other care options are sought out.

Safety
STBX agrees to enroll in a parenting class, as recommended by his counselor, to help guide him in healthy and gentle parenting choices.

STBX agrees to stay in counseling that is geared to anger management.

We shall not use, nor allow anyone else to use, physical discipline with our children, ever!

Neither parent shall allow our children to be in the presence of smoking of any kind.

Our children are to never be around XX, the paternal step grandfather, without themselves being present with him.

Conflict Resolution
1. Should any disputes arise between us or the children in the areas of education, health care, childcare, religious training, operation of a motor vehicle, extra-curricular activities, vacations, or other significant issues, we agree that it is in the best interests of the children and ourselves to resolve any disputes. All such decisions must be made jointly or arbitrated. They may not be made unilaterally by either parent. Should either of us wish to modify this agreement, we agree to:

2. Meet and confer with one another, each to present to the other a proposed solution to the dispute. If there is no resolution at this step, we will then:

3. Meet and confer with an expert in the field related to the dispute, e.g., doctor, teacher, counselor, etc. If there is no resolution at this step, we will then:

4. Meet and confer with a mediator/counselor who has had experience in dispute resolution. All concerned shall use their best efforts to resolve the issues. Should there be no resolution at this step, we will then:

5. Submit the matter to a Special Master for mediation/arbitration prior to returning to court. If there is no resolution at this step, we will then:

6. Only in the event that we still cannot agree will we submit the matter to a Court of competent jurisdiction. We understand that this is an extraordinary step and will be resorted to only when there is no other way to resolve the problem.

7. This section shall apply to all parts of this agreement.

8. Until there is resolution of any dispute that may arise concerning this agreement, the operative terms of this agreement shall remain in full force and effect.

9. Any related costs to having to seek third party resolution help shall be shared 50/50.

Review of Agreement
1. Three years from time of signing of this agreement, the custody recommendations shall be reviewed and modified as needed.

2. It is understood that any parts that we cannot agree upon will follow the Conflict Resolution definitions of this agreement.
I edited out the sections I didn't think could be enforced so would probably never fly. Not that I don't agree with them! But I really don't think it would ever work. Because even if your ex signs that paper most of that wouldn't be easily enforced.

A couple questions....

Why is it stated that dd will visit only on weekends that your ex has her older sister as well? Wouldn't it be nice for her to have alone, daddy/daughter time?

Why is he allowed to come visit ds between 3:00-7:00 but allowed to visit dd between 4:00-7:00?

Under "family obligations" I notice it only talks about 2 different weekends that you want the kids no matter whether it falls on your weekend or not. I think something needs to be included on what would happen if one of those was ex's weekend. Would he get the weekend after instead and then you get the weekend after that? Would ex get two weekends in a row? Is there any special time for ex's family? Any family reunions or anything?

Why no trick or treating until 2 years of age? I don't think that's something you can enforce if he has a visit with the younger one before he's 2 that just happens to fall on Halloween. What is he supposed to do? Leave ds with someone else while he takes dd ToT? Take ds but refuse to let him participate even though he sees big sister doing it?

Bedtime cannot be enforced. And, I'm sorry to say it, but sh*t happens and kids don't always get to bed on time. It's part of life


TV time cannot be enforced.

Physical punishment... while I totally agree with you I don't think it can be enforced. Besides, he could smack your dd on the bottom and say he was "doing it out of love".
 
#6 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by StephandOwen View Post
Why is it stated that dd will visit only on weekends that your ex has her older sister as well? Wouldn't it be nice for her to have alone, daddy/daughter time?
This is to ensure that DD and DS will get to build a relationship with their sister. As it is right now, neither of her parents are really allowing me to stay a part of her life... and her and my DD just light up around each other and already have a bond. I'd like for them to be able to continue that, and that will only happen currently, if their visits sync up.

Quote:
Why is he allowed to come visit ds between 3:00-7:00 but allowed to visit dd between 4:00-7:00?
Likely a typo thing, or different thought process in my head. lol I was thinking DS 3-7 while I was on maternity leave and would be home, and STBX works a night shift and those are the only day hours he'd be able to visit.

4:00 for DD, I was thinking of when I get DD from daycare after work we generally are not home until this time. I guess I should update DS's to 4:00 as well.

Quote:
Under "family obligations" I notice it only talks about 2 different weekends that you want the kids no matter whether it falls on your weekend or not. I think something needs to be included on what would happen if one of those was ex's weekend. Would he get the weekend after instead and then you get the weekend after that? Would ex get two weekends in a row? Is there any special time for ex's family? Any family reunions or anything?
Yeah I can add in that weekends would be switched or whatever to accomodate this. But on Father's Day weekend, he is already going to get all of Father's Day. I just wanted to make sure I got the Saturday for my family reunion, so I didn't have to deal with the BS I got from him this year with him calling me all day Satuday telling me what a B I am because I didn't let him have DD all Father's Day weekend, like he has been doing with DSD. I told him he knew my family reunion is that day. He says he has more priority to see DD than anyone in my family.

His family doesn't do anything. Most of his family doesn't even speak to each other. If he had something, I wouldn't have an issue with the kids going to it. But I think, honestly, we have a better chance of pigs flying before STBX's family decided to do any type of family get togethers.

Quote:
Why no trick or treating until 2 years of age? I don't think that's something you can enforce if he has a visit with the younger one before he's 2 that just happens to fall on Halloween. What is he supposed to do? Leave ds with someone else while he takes dd ToT? Take ds but refuse to let him participate even though he sees big sister doing it?
I suppose mostly just because, a child under the age of 2 can't eat the crap they'd get from ToT anyway.... so what's the point of going?


ToT seems to happen a lot on school nights in my area, so this likely won't even be an issue, as STBX works nights and won't have the kids/be able to take them anyway.

Quote:
Bedtime cannot be enforced. And, I'm sorry to say it, but sh*t happens and kids don't always get to bed on time. It's part of life
Yeah I do realize this... I had that part in as an example suggested by a parenting agreement I found online... and mostly because, he never had a problem with keeping the kids up until 10 or 11 on he weekends, which screws up their schedule and they are all kinds of cranky for the next two days.
While I know it's not enforceable... I guess I'm hoping if it's in writing to remind him... perhaps he'll at least give it some thought.
 
#7 ·
In addition to what everyone else has said, I think this is problematic:

Quote:
DD will spend every other weekend with STBX (on same weekends as her older sister). STBX will pick up DD from her daycare at approximately 3:30 pm Friday afternoon, until 10:00 am Sunday morning.
Do NOT specify that your DD's weekends will be the same weekends as her older (half)sister's weekends. That leaves you open to being jerked around as to which weekend is whose if he and his other ex switch weekends around.

Specify even/odd weekends counting from the first Friday in the year, or 1st, 3rd, 5th weekends of each month (DEFINED precisely by the Friday of the weekend's place in the month or something, but NO AMBIGUITY).

You can always agree to flip weekends if needed. But do NOT give yourself a parenting plan that makes adjustments "agreed to by two other people not you for a child that is not yours" something you *must* take into account (or that he can claim you have to take into account).

You want a schedule that is not open to interpretation to fall back on if an agreement to do otherwise cannot be reached.

Seriously.

Edited to add: We were posting at the same time. I *get* that you want to ensure that your kids form a bond with their sister, but that is not something you have any say over, as much as it sucks.

Go ahead and define the weekends etc. so that they happen (now) to fall on his weekends with his other daughter, but, do NOT in any way refer to that as what defines his weekends with your DD & DS in the parenting plan.
 
#8 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ione View Post
In addition to what everyone else has said, I think this is problematic:

Do NOT specify that your DD's weekends will be the same weekends as her older (half)sister's weekends. That leaves you open to being jerked around as to which weekend is whose if he and his other ex switch weekends around.

Specify even/odd weekends counting from the first Friday in the year, or 1st, 3rd, 5th weekends of each month (DEFINED precisely by the Friday of the weekend's place in the month or something, but NO AMBIGUITY).

You can always agree to flip weekends if needed. But do NOT give yourself a parenting plan that makes adjustments "agreed to by two other people not you for a child that is not yours" something you *must* take into account (or that he can claim you have to take into account).

You want a schedule that is not open to interpretation to fall back on if an agreement to do otherwise cannot be reached.

Seriously.

Edited to add: We were posting at the same time. I *get* that you want to ensure that your kids form a bond with their sister, but that is not something you have any say over, as much as it sucks.

Go ahead and define the weekends etc. so that they happen (now) to fall on his weekends with his other daughter, but, do NOT in any way refer to that as what defines his weekends with your DD & DS in the parenting plan.
And this is why I posted here for feedback. lol I knew I'd get some voices of reason.

Thanks, Ione. I do totally get what you are saying. It's so hard trying to decide where I'm being a non-flexible B or not, and trying to do the "right" thing...

I know myself, and I'm a planner. I like things spelled out. It dirves me batty if at the start of the week I have no idea what is going on for that weekend yet.

STBX and DSD's Mom have had a very very flexible visitation schedule for the past three years, and do end up switching weekends a lot, or STBX will cancel at last minute for some reason, or call only the night before asking for a different time, or DSD's Mom will do the same thing. It drove me insane how both of them would wait until the last minute all the time to plan things out.

And I just assumed I'd be stuck dealing with that forever because my kids are related to his and I'd have to do my best to work with it.
 
#9 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post
And I just assumed I'd be stuck dealing with that forever because my kids are related to his and I'd have to do my best to work with it.
Nope, you're not.

Get a "default schedule" that is clear-cut and NOT open to interpretation, and NOT dependent on his schedule with his other ex and their joint child.

Then, stick to it unless *you* agree to a deviation for whatever purpose (DSD's birthday party, or whatever).

It will then be up to them to conform (or not, as they wish) to *your* schedule, because your schedule is a set schedule.

(I'd even consider adding in deadline of at least 48 hours for requests to deviate from the schedule when such flexibility is appropriate.)

Can you imagine the hell of dealing with:
* Monday before YOUR weekend, he asks to switch it to his weekend because he's switched weekends with his other ex.
* You re-arrange your plans to accommodate him, which takes time and effort.
* Then, Thursday, he calls to say that finally they aren't switching and he's going back to the previous schedule.
* You scramble to re-re-arrange things because now it's your weekend again.
* Then, Friday, he calls to say they are switching again.
* And when you object and refuse to switch things around again, he accuses you of "custodial interference" and threatens to (or actually does) take you to court for denying him his weekend because your parenting plan says that his visits fall on his weekends with his other daughter, and he had her that weekend.

ONE WORD FOR THAT: HELL.
 
#10 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post
It's so hard trying to decide where I'm being a non-flexible B or not, and trying to do the "right" thing...
Oh, and one more thing, you WANT your parenting plan to be a "non-flexible B" for you.

YOU can always be as flexible as you want outside the plan. But you need a PP that is not flexible.

You need to stop looking at the parenting plan filed with the courts as defining how you want the co-parenting to go ideally after the divorce. Instead, see it as the safety net, fallback, fail-proof DEFAULT plan for when you can't agree.

It should lay out the set of rules that the court, law, etc. can and will enforce in the case of disagreement. And that you and he will be legally bound to follow, if and when you and he can't agree on what to do.

Which is slightly different than seeing it as "the rules you and he agree to follow and hope the courts will enforce if one of you stops agreeing".

Do you get what I'm trying to say?
 
#11 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ione View Post
Oh, and one more thing, you WANT your parenting plan to be a "non-flexible B" for you.

YOU can always be as flexible as you want outside the plan. But you need a PP that is not flexible.

You need to stop looking at the parenting plan filed with the courts as defining how you want the co-parenting to go ideally after the divorce. Instead, see it as the safety net, fallback, fail-proof DEFAULT plan for when you can't agree.

It should lay out the set of rules that the court, law, etc. can and will enforce in the case of disagreement. And that you and he will be legally bound to follow, if and when you and he can't agree on what to do.

Which is slightly different than seeing it as "the rules you and he agree to follow and hope the courts will enforce if one of you stops agreeing".

Do you get what I'm trying to say?
Totally agree (bolding mine) - I did the exact same thing. My ex and I will flex weekends to accommodate each other occasionally if plans come up, or one of us needs the kids for some event. Otherwise, the visitation schedule is iron clad. That way I don't get jerked around by him and last minute plans - no accusations of me withholding visitation, etc. and it gives us both the opportunity to say 'Hey, does this work for you?'

For example, per our agreement - he is supposed to pick up the kids Friday night at my house at six o'clock. Then I am supposed to pick them up Sunday night at his house at six o'clock (this is EOW)... Through trial and error, we found that it was easier for me to bring them to him Friday night, and him to return them to me. I only agreed to it if he could be here on time (he's notoriously late - all.the.time) This holds him accountable, because if he's late - I insist on going back to the agreement.

Flexibility is great - once you've established the ground rules.
 
#12 ·
Thanks, Ione & Ceinwen! That does make sense. I will revisit and think in terms of "last resort, court ordered" stance for the PP.

Do you think the felxibility clause in it could bite me in the butt? "Oh but our PP says we are to be flexible, and you're just being a B!" kwim?

But my lawyer and I were going to try to present this to him outside of court, and hope he agrees to it so we don't have to spend all the extra fees of going to court. And I'm afraid if I'm too "strong" with not much wiggle room he won't budge on it..
 
#13 ·
I didn't read the parenting plan. BUT - it being iron clad protects your stbx too. If there isn't any wiggle room for him, then there isn't any wiggle room for you either. I would nix the flexibility clause, unless there are some stipulations about reasonableness, how much advance notice is needed, etc.
 
#14 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post
This is to ensure that DD and DS will get to build a relationship with their sister. As it is right now, neither of her parents are really allowing me to stay a part of her life... and her and my DD just light up around each other and already have a bond. I'd like for them to be able to continue that, and that will only happen currently, if their visits sync up.
Ah, I get this. However, it's out of your power. What happens if, for whatever reason (holiday, etc) the weekends get switched around and they are no longer on the same schedule as your ex's dd? It would be nice if your dd still got to have a relationship with her sister, but that's not for you to say- you know?

Quote:
Yeah I can add in that weekends would be switched or whatever to accomodate this. But on Father's Day weekend, he is already going to get all of Father's Day. I just wanted to make sure I got the Saturday for my family reunion, so I didn't have to deal with the BS I got from him this year with him calling me all day Satuday telling me what a B I am because I didn't let him have DD all Father's Day weekend, like he has been doing with DSD. I told him he knew my family reunion is that day. He says he has more priority to see DD than anyone in my family.
Risking being ostracized but.... I kinda agree with him
Not that your family doesn't deserve to see dd- they certainly do!! But if Fathers Day weekend is important to him then I do think he has priority over your family. What if he decides he wants to take dd on a fishing trip (or whatever he/they enjoy) for the weekend? Why shouldn't he be able to take his daughter for fathers day weekend for a special trip?

That's quite the sticky situation there. I agree with you that your family deserves to have a relationship with your dd. But so does her dad. Any chance the family thing can be moved to the weekend before or after fathers day?

Quote:
I suppose mostly just because, a child under the age of 2 can't eat the crap they'd get from ToT anyway.... so what's the point of going?
True. But my ds still loved going ToT, even if he didn't/doesn't eat the candy (now at almost 7 he goes ToT but he doesn't eat pretty much any of the candy unless he gets plain m&m's or a plain hershey's bar). I think that the more you can let go of, the better off you will be in the long run. There really isn't a GOOD reason to not let ds go ToT, is there? Then let it go. It will make you look way controlling if you try for things that really have no reason behind them.

Quote:
ToT seems to happen a lot on school nights in my area, so this likely won't even be an issue, as STBX works nights and won't have the kids/be able to take them anyway.
Then let it go. No need to include it and make you sound like you are trying to control everything he does with the kids.
 
#15 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by StephandOwen View Post
Risking being ostracized but.... I kinda agree with him
Not that your family doesn't deserve to see dd- they certainly do!! But if Fathers Day weekend is important to him then I do think he has priority over your family. What if he decides he wants to take dd on a fishing trip (or whatever he/they enjoy) for the weekend? Why shouldn't he be able to take his daughter for fathers day weekend for a special trip?

That's quite the sticky situation there. I agree with you that your family deserves to have a relationship with your dd. But so does her dad. Any chance the family thing can be moved to the weekend before or after fathers day?
STBX has the opportunity to see DD everyday if he so chooses to do so... my extended family that is about 60 some aunts/uncles/cousins/cousin's kids really has two major get togethers a year.

The family reunion has been the same date for the past 30 years... no, they will not change it to a different weekend just to accomodate my kids.

Most of my extended family only has the opportunity to see us on those two occaisons a year.

So why should my STBX get priority for that Saturday, when he has ample opportunity to see DD every week, as opposed to family who only gets to see her twice a year?

Father's Day is a "Hallmark" holiday on a calendar... literally he could pick any weekend out of the year to do something special with his kids. He just wants the whole weekend because of his entitlement issues.
 
#16 ·
A small thing:
Under Safety, "Our children are to never be around XX, the paternal step grandfather, without themselves being present with him." -- I had no idea what this meant at first, but when I re-read it I figured it out -- "Our children are never to be around .... without THE PARENT being present."

Also:
Would it be an option to present this more flexible, philosophy-type plan to him to sign, but if he doesn't to strip it down to just the hard-and-fast enforcable stuff for court if it comes to that?

Would it be an option to attach a calendar that spells out the visitation schedule for the next year to the plan?
 
#17 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post
STBX has the opportunity to see DD everyday if he so chooses to do so... my extended family that is about 60 some aunts/uncles/cousins/cousin's kids really has two major get togethers a year.

The family reunion has been the same date for the past 30 years... no, they will not change it to a different weekend just to accomodate my kids.

Most of my extended family only has the opportunity to see us on those two occaisons a year.

So why should my STBX get priority for that Saturday, when he has ample opportunity to see DD every week, as opposed to family who only gets to see her twice a year?

Father's Day is a "Hallmark" holiday on a calendar... literally he could pick any weekend out of the year to do something special with his kids. He just wants the whole weekend because of his entitlement issues.
I kind of agree with Steph on this one
I would be very upset if I couldn't spend Mother's day with my kids, Hallmark holiday or not. Maybe I'm being shallow, but it's true
Having said that - only the Sunday itself. If Father's/Mother's day falls on the other person's weekend, we only get that day, not the whole weekend.
 
#18 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post
STBX has the opportunity to see DD everyday if he so chooses to do so... my extended family that is about 60 some aunts/uncles/cousins/cousin's kids really has two major get togethers a year.

The family reunion has been the same date for the past 30 years... no, they will not change it to a different weekend just to accomodate my kids.

Most of my extended family only has the opportunity to see us on those two occaisons a year.

So why should my STBX get priority for that Saturday, when he has ample opportunity to see DD every week, as opposed to family who only gets to see her twice a year?

Father's Day is a "Hallmark" holiday on a calendar... literally he could pick any weekend out of the year to do something special with his kids. He just wants the whole weekend because of his entitlement issues.
I think the solution to this problem is a simple one. When fathers day falls on your ex's weekend - he gets the whole weekend. When fathers day falls on YOUR weekend - you take your dd and ds to the family get together, and he gets them on saturday. He won't get the whole weekend every single year, and you won't always get to take your babies to the family reunion, but its the most fair solution to both parents. It stinks, but its the way it is.
 
#19 ·
Here are my thoughts. I tried to look at this impartially - as if it was some random parenting agreement - not your parenting agreement. Believe me, I don't have a high opinion of your STBX, but I know that the court won't have an opinion one way or the other. So I have questioned some things that if it were anybody else's (my DH's, for example), I would think it was unfair.

I agree with the PPs that you have to let go about some of the specific parenting things. Would you sign an agreement that said that children should be left to CIO because this properly trains them to self-soothe? Of course not. But you and STBX have difference in parenting philosophy. Also, how would you know if it happened?

If he gets frustrated with a crying baby, the best thing for him to do at that moment might be to put the baby in a safe place for a minute, collect himself, then proceed. *I* have had to do this before - a screaming baby that you cannot soothe can make you crazy. His anger management/parenting classes will probably tell him to do this to prevent Shaken Baby Syndrome. Just a thought.

I tried to poke holes anywhere I could - I tried to imagine that I was him, I wanted more time with my children and annoying you in the process would be an added bonus. Or maybe the goal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post
General Philosophy
We care about the well-being of our children. We shall put our children's needs first in all aspects of their life, growth and development. We realize we both are very important to our children and they need each of us as an active parent throughout their lives. We will give our children permission to love, and be proud of, the other parent. We expect each child is an individual and may have different needs and that their needs will change as they grow older.

As the developmental and life needs will change drastically over the next few years, it is understood that this agreement is geared specifically to the baby/toddler years and will need to be regularly modified as the children grow.

Legal & Physical Custody and Major Decision Making

Legal Custody
We will have joint legal custody. Meaning all major decisions in regards to education, medical and religion will be decided together. If an agreement cannot be reached, it is agreed to seek out a mediator. Costs for mediation will be split 50/50.

Physical Custody
We will have shared physical custody, with JSMa, mother, retaining the primary residence at ~address~, as the custodial parent. STBX, father, will have reasonable visitation (detailed under parenting schedule), taking the child's best interest into consideration, as the non-custodial parent.

Medical Care
Both of us agree to consult with one another concerning medical and dental insurance. We will determine which has the best plan and, if in agreement, obtain that plan. We agree to share the cost of that plan for the children in a 50/50 split.(note, this part may change when we go to domestics) We further agree to divide and pay any uncovered costs on a 50/50 basis. Explanation of Benefits and invoices will be tracked, and amounts will be discussed quarterly to set up 50% payment reimbursement to the parent that paid for treatment.

It is agreed that JSMa will set up appointments and inform STBX of the dates and times. Either parent, or both will accompany child to appointment, as schedules allow. This will be discussed when JSMa informs STBX of appointment time.
I know that my DH would have never agreed to something like this, but he is the primary appointment-maker by default. Does this apply to things like urgent care visits (not an emergency but something requiring care on a weekend)? Looking at it in a completely impersonal way (as in, this is some random agreement - not yours), something about it rubs me the wrong way. Like as a parent, he doesn't have the right to seek medical care for his child.

Emergencies
Each parent is required to notify the other parent immediately of any medical emergency. The parent present is authorized to sign legal consents for both parents to permit emergency intervention.

Information
On any emergency information sheet, each parent will list the other as the first person to contact if he or she is not reachable.

Parenting/Visitation Schedule

Visitation Schedule for DD
DD will spend every other weekend with STBX (on same weekends as her older sister). STBX will pick up DD from her daycare at approximately 3:30 pm Friday afternoon, until 10:00 am Sunday morning.
What if she isn't at daycare? If she is at home with you for some reason, would it be possible for him to require that you drive to the daycare?

STBX is also welcome to visit with DD during the week, Monday through Thursday, between the hours of 4:00 pm to 7:00 pm, when his schedule allows. He is to give JSMa at least 24 hour notice if he plans to visit during this time, so she can ensure her and DD do not have conflicting plans and are home. If plans conflict, STBX will have to request a new time to visit.
Looking at this from his point of view, what if you decide to have a conflict every day? Then he is screwed.

Visitation Schedule for DS
DS will be primarily in JSMa's care for at least the first 6 months from birth. No overnights are to take place until DS is eating solid foods in addition to breast milk, and also sleeping through the night (waking no more than once per night).
My child was well past two before this happened, and even at three it happens a few times a week.

STBX is encouraged to visit DS daily between the hours of 3:00 pm and 7:00 pm Monday through Friday, at primary residence, and may visit as much as he likes on Saturday and Sunday. All visits should be given at least a 24 hour notice. If plans conflict with the requested visit, STBX is to request a different time to visit. It is understood that the baby may be napping and/or breastfeeding during the visit hours, but JSMa will accommodate for as much bonding time to happen with STBX during the visits.

Once DS is on solid foods and sleeping through the night, approximately 6 months of age, we will progressively work towards overnight visits. This will start with STBX taking DS for 4-6 hour spans on every other Saturday (on weekends he has older daughter for visits) for at least two months time.
Will your DS be at daycare at this point? Your STBX might be able to say, "Hey, she'll leave our son with someone who could be a complete stranger for eight hours at a time, but his own father gets eight hours a month?"

If DS is doing well, it can progress to 6-8 hours on every other Saturday for at least two months time.
What is "doing well"? Who determines a) that definition and b) whether he is meeting it?
If DS is doing well, it can progress to 8-12 hours on every other Saturday for at least two months time.

If DS is doing well, it can progress to DS going from 10:00 am Saturday morning until 10:00 am Sunday morning for one overnight, every other weekend, for at least two months time.

If DS is doing well, it can progress to same schedule as his sister at this time.

It is understood that if at anytime it is apparent that DS is not adjusting well, example, excessive screaming/crying fits, showing anxiety, etc, JSMa is to be called and the visit is to be cut short. If DS is showing signs that he/she is not quite ready for a longer visit, another month will be added onto whichever hour/overnight visitation stage he is at.
This seems very subjective. Who makes the determination?

It is understood that this visitation schedule for DS takes precedence over any of the holiday schedules listed.
So what if Christmas Eve is a Saturday night on STBX's weekend? Then he would definitively get DS, but in theory not DD?

Holiday Schedules

Memorial Day, Independence Day and Labor Day
We agree to consult one another about any family plans we may have for any of these holidays. The consultation should take place at least two weeks prior to the date, to ensure time for planning and any resolutions that need to be made. Whoever has a family commitment/picnic/vacation will get precedence for the holiday time. If both parents have commitments, when at all possible, if the times of the events allow the child to attend both events, the parents should strive to make this happen, to ensure family bonds for the child. If times/event do not allow the child to attend both, the parent that did not get the last non/religious/familial holiday will have precedence for holiday time.

If the holiday time creates one parent having three weekend visits in a row, it is understood that the following weekend after the holiday (the would be third weekend) will be adjusted to the other parents time.
This seems super-confusing. With him having only EOW, all of the holidays are really going to wind up messing with the schedule. Also, what constitutes an "event"? Could he have his girlfriend over to grill hotdogs on Memorial Day and call it a BBQ? What if it was his mom instead?

Halloween - Trick-or-Treat
Trick-or-Treating will not start until child is two years of age, minimum. At this time we will switch every other year for who will take the children trick-or-treating. The parent whose year it is can determine location. The other parent is always welcome and encouraged to go with.
DS went ToTing at 8 months because his sister was old enough to go. Once you have one kid ToTing, it is difficult not to bring the other one. It seems silly to have to get a babysitter when the younger child could easily be brought along.

Easter/ Thanksgiving/Christmas
It has been decided that Easter/Thanksgiving/Christmas will be held at the primary residence until the younger child is two years of age.
If STBX contests this, I don't think you will win this one. Looking at it as if it was just anyone, it seems unfair.

STBX is welcome and encouraged to come share the holiday festivities with his children. After youngest child is two years of age, these holidays will be shared every other year, as per the following times:

Easter
6:00 pm the evening before until 6:00 pm Easter day

Christmas
6:00 Christmas Eve until 6:00 Christmas Day
Christmas Eve festivities often start earlier than this (although maybe this is regional). Heck, we are usually leaving for home around 6:30 from DH's family's celebration. This might not be true now, but what if you re-partner and his family starts celebrating earlier or something like that?

Thanksgiving
Thanksgiving Day 10:00 am until 6:00 pm
This seems early for an end time. What if you re-partner and they are 4:00 eaters?

Family Obligations
JSMa's family has two major family events a year that should be accommodated for the children to attend to ensure family bonds. Every Saturday of Father's Day weekend is her maternal family reunion. This does not interfere with Father's Day itself, and will be JSMa's day with the children so they can attend their family reunion.

In December, JSMa's family also hosts a family Christmas party on one of the Saturdays in the month. It should be accommodated for JSMa to have the children on this Saturday for the children to attend to ensure family bonds.
If you take time of his for this, he should get make-up time. The man only gets four days/month.

Father's Day/Mother's Day/Parents Birthday
Each parent will get the children on their respective holiday day from 9:00 am to 6:00 pm.

Each parent will choose a weekend day either one weekend before or after their birthday that they wish to celebrate their birthday, it if does not fall on a weekend day, and accommodations will be made to ensure the parent will get the children for that weekend day from 9:00 am to 6:00 pm, if it is not during their normal visit schedule.

Additional Visitation Schedule Agreements
Although our children need living arrangements that are predictable, if something unexpected or unavoidable comes up, we shall give each other as much notice as possible. If we are unable to agree on a change to the schedule, the visitation schedule shall be followed. If this results in the need for child care, the scheduled parent shall make the child care arrangements and pay the cost.

We recognize that decision making is an important part of parenting. We agree that the parent our children are with (the "on-duty" parent) will make decisions about their day-to-day care.

If STBX is late picking children up from daycare on scheduled pick-ups on every other Friday, he is responsible for all charges past normal time.

If child cannot go to daycare due to sickness, each parent takes turns to miss work.
I understand why you have this, but looking at it totally neutrally, it seems unfair. Like you want the upsides of being the CP but not the downsides, IYKWIM. When you are the NC parent, your life is often set up in such a manner that reflects this.

We shall arrive on time (no more than 20 minutes early or late) to drop off and pick up of our children.
Maybe I missed it, but transportation in general seems vague. Who does each specific pick-up/drop-off and where? What about holidays?

Our children's clothing, and special belongings will travel with them and parents should make sure all items are returned with child at pick-ups.

Out of Town Travel
If parent is planning on going overnight out of town anywhere with the children, the other parent should be notified. The parent with the children in their care should be able to be reached by phone in case of any emergencies at all times, and should provide alternate numbers if there is no cell phone service.
What is "out of town"? I think our agreement says "50 miles outside of the metro area" or something like that.

Direct Communications. We will discuss our concerns directly with the other parent without our children present.

Communication
All communications about the children shall be written in a communication book, which shall pass with the children as they pass between households. In it are to be noted important events/milestones of the previous week, the child's health and need for current medication, and upcoming appointments that may effect the children's scheduling. Requests for adjustments in parenting times may also be entered. While each parent is encouraged to respond to all requests within 48 hours, silence in regard to a request shall be considered a "yes". The book may not be used to criticize either parent's behavior.
This seems dangerous. What if he requests something, you want to say "no," but he makes himself inaccessible so you cannot do so within 48 hours?

Also, even if you have a conversation about something (i.e. "milestone," which probably needs defining), does it still have to be documented in the book? This seems like a good idea, but something that might not work so well IRL if one of the parents (STBX) is only approaching it half-heartedly.

Right of First Refusal
If either parent will not be available to be present for more than two hours of their parenting time, that time should be offered to the other parent before any other care options are sought out.
How does this work with daycare?

Safety
STBX agrees to enroll in a parenting class, as recommended by his counselor, to help guide him in healthy and gentle parenting choices.

STBX agrees to stay in counseling that is geared to anger management.
For how long?

We shall not use, nor allow anyone else to use, physical discipline with our children, ever!
I just don't know if you will get this one. I agree with you, but I am not sure if the court will if STBX has an issue with this.

Neither parent shall allow our children to be in the presence of smoking of any kind.

Our children are to never be around XX, the paternal step grandfather, without themselves being present with him.
This is kind of clunky. I assume you mean, "without a parent present with them"?

We agree to not leave our children in the sole care of any significant others, until the relationship has reached at least six months, and the other parent has been given the option to meet with the new partner and feel out their parenting philosophy. We are to respect each others need to feel safe and trusting with who our children are left in the care of.
Shouldn't the ROFR cover this? What if you re-partner, he is a great guy, but your STBX is just feeling like making your life difficult because of jealousy/anger?

Conflict Resolution
1. Should any disputes arise between us or the children in the areas of education, health care, childcare, religious training, operation of a motor vehicle, extra-curricular activities, vacations, or other significant issues, we agree that it is in the best interests of the children and ourselves to resolve any disputes. All such decisions must be made jointly or arbitrated. They may not be made unilaterally by either parent. Should either of us wish to modify this agreement, we agree to:

2. Meet and confer with one another, each to present to the other a proposed solution to the dispute. If there is no resolution at this step, we will then:

3. Meet and confer with an expert in the field related to the dispute, e.g., doctor, teacher, counselor, etc. If there is no resolution at this step, we will then:
Who picks the "expert" - do you each get one?
4. Meet and confer with a mediator/counselor who has had experience in dispute resolution. All concerned shall use their best efforts to resolve the issues. Should there be no resolution at this step, we will then:

5. Submit the matter to a Special Master for mediation/arbitration prior to returning to court. If there is no resolution at this step, we will then:

6. Only in the event that we still cannot agree will we submit the matter to a Court of competent jurisdiction. We understand that this is an extraordinary step and will be resorted to only when there is no other way to resolve the problem.

7. This section shall apply to all parts of this agreement.

8. Until there is resolution of any dispute that may arise concerning this agreement, the operative terms of this agreement shall remain in full force and effect.

9. Any related costs to having to seek third party resolution help shall be shared 50/50.

Review of Agreement
1. Three years from time of signing of this agreement, the custody recommendations shall be reviewed and modified as needed.

2. It is understood that any parts that we cannot agree upon will follow the Conflict Resolution definitions of this agreement.
 
#20 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by thyra View Post
I think the solution to this problem is a simple one. When fathers day falls on your ex's weekend - he gets the whole weekend. When fathers day falls on YOUR weekend - you take your dd and ds to the family get together, and he gets them on saturday. He won't get the whole weekend every single year, and you won't always get to take your babies to the family reunion, but its the most fair solution to both parents. It stinks, but its the way it is.
This is kinda what I was getting at. I know it sucks big time, JSMa. I really do. But you can't really tell him that you want him to give up HIS weekend (on years that Father's Day falls on his weekend) so that you can bring the kids to spend time with your family. It just isn't fair.

One of the many things that sucks about being divorced/single. It's not always pretty and sometimes we have to give up things that we want. But we do what we have to do for the kids and, whether you believe it now or not, spending time with their dad especially on fathers day weekend is higher up on that list than spending time with great aunts/great uncles/cousins/etc. It doesn't matter if he has the opportunity every day to see your dd. It's not fair of you, in my opinion, to tell him that he can NEVER have the kid(s) all weekend for fathers day, even if it's technically his weekend.

I wish you luck on this, JSMa. It is a hard journey but it does get easier as time goes on
It sounds to me like everything is still very fresh and you are doing everything you can to hold onto any sort of routines/schedules/etc you all have. One thing you will learn, in time, is that you can't control those anymore. By getting divorced/being single those things are not always in our hands anymore. Like I said before- it sucks. I'm not denying that. But you will do your heart a load of good when you start to let go on the need to control all of this (I'm talking about the ToT thing, tv thing, etc).
 
#21 ·
I wil go back and address the other questions...

but what I am really struggling with... how screwed up are my kids going to end up?
I mean if I just ship them off to STBX's and he just let's them stranded in their cribs and starts spanking my 1.5 year old...

How do I ensure I'm doing everything I can at home so they don't end up completely pyschologically screwed up because of all the time I have no choice but to give to STBX?

And as a note... my cousin put in her parenting agreement, same county as I, about no physical punishments and the judge backed it up because of the documented anger issues her ex has. So it gives me hope that it will be enforced here. Especially as his own counselor wants him to continue anger management and parenting classes.
 
#22 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeannine View Post

Go ahead and try, if you like this agreement and he'll sign it. But even if the court approves it, there will not be anything you can do when you discover that he loses his patience sometimes, being alone with 2-3 young girls (so all his discipline is not "loving"), or that he lets the baby watch Hannah Montana with her older sisters when she's 18 months old. I understand the desire for control. But I think you're setting yourself up for extra stress, by having impractical expectations that such a carefully-worded agreement will force STBX to always act the way you want him to, when you're not around.
Totally agree with all this. We do have a beautiful paragraph in ours about supporting each other's relationship with the kids and not putting the kids in the middle, etc. etc. But no surprise, he doesn't adhere to any of that and there's really not a damn thing I can do but document everything just in case it rises to the level where we could go to court.

All you can do is provide a safe, nurturing home while the kids are with you. Keep them talking. Always take the high road. Never say a negative word about their dad.
 
#23 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post
No physical punishments! Re-direction is to be used until child has reached a developmental stage to understand natural consequences.

If a time-out is deemed necessary, only to be used once child is old enough to understand this type of consequence, time out is only one minute per year age of child. Example, a two year old would have a two minute time-out.
Leave out exclamation. Also, I would suggest the methods like 1,2,3 Magic by
Dr. Thomas Phelan. This method will help keep your ex-cool headed. It is respected. It also describes how the parent should react. I know some people on this board don't like it but, IMO, it is a middle ground

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post
All consequences should be delivered in love, and talked about with child to ensure they understand what was done wrong and that you still love them unconditionally.

We agree not use the Crying It Out method. The child should never be left alone to cry.
I would include reference to the article were Ferber recants.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post
Legal & Physical Custody and Major Decision Making

Legal Custody
We will have joint legal custody. Meaning all major decisions in regards to education, medical and religion will be decided together. If an agreement cannot be reached, it is agreed to seek out a mediator. Costs for mediation will be split 50/50.

Physical Custody
We will have shared physical custody, with JSMa, mother, retaining the primary residence at ~address~, as the custodial parent. STBX, father, will have reasonable visitation (detailed under parenting schedule), taking the child's best interest into consideration, as the non-custodial parent.
What is reasonable visitation?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post
Medical Care
Both of us agree to consult with one another concerning medical and dental insurance. We will determine which has the best plan and, if in agreement, obtain that plan. We agree to share the cost of that plan for the children in a 50/50 split.(note, this part may change when we go to domestics) We further agree to divide and pay any uncovered costs on a 50/50 basis. Explanation of Benefits and invoices will be tracked, and amounts will be discussed quarterly to set up 50% payment reimbursement to the parent that paid for treatment.

It is agreed that JSMa will set up appointments and inform STBX of the dates and times. Either parent, or both will accompany child to appointment, as schedules allow. This will be discussed when JSMa informs STBX of appointment time.

Emergencies
Each parent is required to notify the other parent immediately of any medical emergency. The parent present is authorized to sign legal consents for both parents to permit emergency intervention.

Information
On any emergency information sheet, each parent will list the other as the first person to contact if he or she is not reachable.

Parenting/Visitation Schedule

Visitation Schedule for DD
DD will spend every other weekend with STBX (on same weekends as her older sister). STBX will pick up DD from her daycare at approximately 3:30 pm Friday afternoon, until 10:00 am Sunday morning.
10 am is to early. Heck half the time we are not up at 10 am. I would push it to 3 pmish or later. Imagine doing something with your kids on the week end and you want to let them sleep in on Sunday but court order means they have to be out the door at 10 am. This is asking for a night mare situation for YOU because they don't get this sleep time or have to rush through the morning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post
STBX is also welcome to visit with DD during the week, Monday through Thursday, between the hours of 4:00 pm to 7:00 pm, when his schedule allows. He is to give JSMa at least 24 hour notice if he plans to visit during this time, so she can ensure her and DD do not have conflicting plans and are home. If plans conflict, STBX will have to request a new time to visit.
I would change the word welcome it is a controlling word and give the feel that he has to have permission to be around his child. I would also have an online calender set up for major/school activities. I would also see if having a more set schedule instead of when it is convenient. If he has a job were he can have every tuesday off then let that be his evening. If he has a job that post the schedule a few days prior set up notice then -- like if the schedule is posted on Thursday then Friday he has to tell you what evenings he can have her. Then you work from there. If you know on Friday his only evening off is Wednesday you can make your schedule around that. You can also tell your child if she asked to go with a friend on Wednesday she needs to discuss it with her dad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post
Visitation Schedule for DS
DS will be primarily in JSMa's care for at least the first 6 months from birth. No overnights are to take place until DS is eating solid foods in addition to breast milk, and also sleeping through the night (waking no more than once per night).

STBX is encouraged to visit DS daily between the hours of 3:00 pm and 7:00 pm Monday through Friday, at primary residence, and may visit as much as he likes on Saturday and Sunday. All visits should be given at least a 24 hour notice. If plans conflict with the requested visit, STBX is to request a different time to visit. It is understood that the baby may be napping and/or breastfeeding during the visit hours, but JSMa will accommodate for as much bonding time to happen with STBX during the visits.

Once DS is on solid foods and sleeping through the night, approximately 6 months of age, we will progressively work towards overnight visits. This will start with STBX taking DS for 4-6 hour spans on every other Saturday (on weekends he has older daughter for visits) for at least two months time.

If DS is doing well, it can progress to 6-8 hours on every other Saturday for at least two months time.

If DS is doing well, it can progress to 8-12 hours on every other Saturday for at least two months time.

If DS is doing well, it can progress to DS going from 10:00 am Saturday morning until 10:00 am Sunday morning for one overnight, every other weekend, for at least two months time.

If DS is doing well, it can progress to same schedule as his sister at this time.

It is understood that if at anytime it is apparent that DS is not adjusting well, example, excessive screaming/crying fits, showing anxiety, etc, JSMa is to be called and the visit is to be cut short. If DS is showing signs that he/she is not quite ready for a longer visit, another month will be added onto whichever hour/overnight visitation stage he is at.

It is understood that this visitation schedule for DS takes precedence over any of the holiday schedules listed.
again I think your notices should come within 24 hours of him receiving his schedule.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post
Holiday Schedules

Memorial Day, Independence Day and Labor Day
We agree to consult one another about any family plans we may have for any of these holidays. The consultation should take place at least two weeks prior to the date, to ensure time for planning and any resolutions that need to be made. Whoever has a family commitment/picnic/vacation will get precedence for the holiday time. If both parents have commitments, when at all possible, if the times of the events allow the child to attend both events, the parents should strive to make this happen, to ensure family bonds for the child. If times/event do not allow the child to attend both, the parent that did not get the last non/religious/familial holiday will have precedence for holiday time.

If the holiday time creates one parent having three weekend visits in a row, it is understood that the following weekend after the holiday (the would be third weekend) will be adjusted to the other parents time.

Halloween - Trick-or-Treat
Trick-or-Treating will not start until child is two years of age, minimum. At this time we will switch every other year for who will take the children trick-or-treating. The parent whose year it is can determine location. The other parent is always welcome and encouraged to go with.
Why 2 years of age? For many parents it is fun dressing up our kids and walking them around with their siblings. I would make this more an issue of weather not age.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post
Easter/ Thanksgiving/Christmas
It has been decided that Easter/Thanksgiving/Christmas will be held at the primary residence until the younger child is two years of age. STBX is welcome and encouraged to come share the holiday festivities with his children. After youngest child is two years of age, these holidays will be shared every other year, as per the following times:

Easter
6:00 pm the evening before until 6:00 pm Easter day

Christmas
6:00 Christmas Eve until 6:00 Christmas Day

Thanksgiving
Thanksgiving Day 10:00 am until 6:00 pm
IMO, this is a little controlling for him not to be able to have them for a holiday until 2? Every other holiday respecting nursing. But him having to hang around your house will be annoying to you and intrusive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post

Family Obligations
JSMa's family has two major family events a year that should be accommodated for the children to attend to ensure family bonds. Every Saturday of Father's Day weekend is her maternal family reunion. This does not interfere with Father's Day itself, and will be JSMa's day with the children so they can attend their family reunion.
Every other year this one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post
In December, JSMa's family also hosts a family Christmas party on one of the Saturdays in the month. It should be accommodated for JSMa to have the children on this Saturday for the children to attend to ensure family bonds.
make sure you add wordage to respect his family obligations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post

Father's Day/Mother's Day/Parents Birthday
Each parent will get the children on their respective holiday day from 9:00 am to 6:00 pm.
I think 9am is to early maybe noonish

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post

Each parent will choose a weekend day either one weekend before or after their birthday that they wish to celebrate their birthday, it if does not fall on a weekend day, and accommodations will be made to ensure the parent will get the children for that weekend day from 9:00 am to 6:00 pm, if it is not during their normal visit schedule.
Stick with the every other week end and this is irrelevant. If the child's birthday falls on the week end that is who ever is suppose to have them's week end. You know when there birthday is and what days you will have them. You and they will survive no contact on birthdays because you can arrange party for other times. Maybe ad room for a call.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post

Additional Visitation Schedule Agreements
Although our children need living arrangements that are predictable, if something unexpected or unavoidable comes up, we shall give each other as much notice as possible. If we are unable to agree on a change to the schedule, the visitation schedule shall be followed. If this results in the need for child care, the scheduled parent shall make the child care arrangements and pay the cost.

We recognize that decision making is an important part of parenting. We agree that the parent our children are with (the "on-duty" parent) will make decisions about their day-to-day care.

If STBX is late picking children up from daycare on scheduled pick-ups on every other Friday, he is responsible for all charges past normal time.
I would make this more general, this seems to expect him to be late and never you. Just in case it becomes his responsibility in the middle of the week you don't want to be leave it specific days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post

If child cannot go to daycare due to sickness, each parent takes turns to miss work.

We shall arrive on time (no more than 20 minutes early or late) to drop off and pick up of our children.

Our children's clothing, and special belongings will travel with them and parents should make sure all items are returned with child at pick-ups.

Out of Town Travel
If parent is planning on going overnight out of town anywhere with the children, the other parent should be notified. The parent with the children in their care should be able to be reached by phone in case of any emergencies at all times, and should provide alternate numbers if there is no cell phone service.

Parental Cooperation
Children need both of their parents' love and support.

We agree to leave our children out of adult discussions about our parenting plan and all other aspects of our separation/divorce/break-up.

We will not discuss the other parent in a negative way in the presence of or within the hearing range of our children and will not allow others to do so. We will advise others about the importance of not speaking negatively about either parent around our children.

Direct Communications. We will discuss our concerns directly with the other parent without our children present.

Expectations and Routines. We agree to support consistent expectations and routines for our children, which include shared expectations regarding bed-time, television, and discipline.

We agree on the following expectations:
- Bed time shall be no later than 8:30 pm
- No television until over two years of age (note, this does not mean the TV cannot be on around them, simply that the child should never be put in front of the TV specifically for them to watch it at this age).
- Television time should be limited to no more than two hours a day over the age of two, unless for special circumstances, such as a sleepover movie-thon, or the child is feeling sick and needs to lay down and rest.
- Discipline: There is to be NO physical punishments of any kind. All guidance should be given with love and respect for the child, with explanations as to why something they did wasn't a good thing to do. Example: "No biting. Biting hurts people. If you need to bite, please chew on this washcloth."

The last part is micromanaging, controlling and not enforcible. Except for the physical punishments and maybe bedtime you will need to let go. I also would not restrict the bed time like that, I would state something more along the lines of agree to bed time - our kids needs do change. Remember we all don't always get our kids to sleep on time, specifically on the week-ends.

Communication
All communications about the children shall be written in a communication book, which shall pass with the children as they pass between households. In it are to be noted important events/milestones of the previous week, the child's health and need for current medication, and upcoming appointments that may effect the children's scheduling. Requests for adjustments in parenting times may also be entered. While each parent is encouraged to respond to all requests within 48 hours, silence in regard to a request shall be considered a "yes". The book may not be used to criticize either parent's behavior.

Right of First Refusal
If either parent will not be available to be present for more than two hours of their parenting time, that time should be offered to the other parent before any other care options are sought out.

Safety
STBX agrees to enroll in a parenting class, as recommended by his counselor, to help guide him in healthy and gentle parenting choices.

STBX agrees to stay in counseling that is geared to anger management.

We shall not use, nor allow anyone else to use, physical discipline with our children, ever!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post

Neither parent shall allow our children to be in the presence of smoking of any kind.
as much as I agree with this you need to allow room. As worded it is demanding and not realistic. In some areas there are still restaurants with smoking sections. Then you also have to walk by smoking areas. Make it that you, your ex, and future partners cannot smoke around the children.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMa View Post

Our children are to never be around XX, the paternal step grandfather, without themselves being present with him.

We agree to not leave our children in the sole care of any significant others, until the relationship has reached at least six months, and the other parent has been given the option to meet with the new partner and feel out their parenting philosophy. We are to respect each others need to feel safe and trusting with who our children are left in the care of.

Conflict Resolution
1. Should any disputes arise between us or the children in the areas of education, health care, childcare, religious training, operation of a motor vehicle, extra-curricular activities, vacations, or other significant issues, we agree that it is in the best interests of the children and ourselves to resolve any disputes. All such decisions must be made jointly or arbitrated. They may not be made unilaterally by either parent. Should either of us wish to modify this agreement, we agree to:

2. Meet and confer with one another, each to present to the other a proposed solution to the dispute. If there is no resolution at this step, we will then:

3. Meet and confer with an expert in the field related to the dispute, e.g., doctor, teacher, counselor, etc. If there is no resolution at this step, we will then:

4. Meet and confer with a mediator/counselor who has had experience in dispute resolution. All concerned shall use their best efforts to resolve the issues. Should there be no resolution at this step, we will then:

5. Submit the matter to a Special Master for mediation/arbitration prior to returning to court. If there is no resolution at this step, we will then:

6. Only in the event that we still cannot agree will we submit the matter to a Court of competent jurisdiction. We understand that this is an extraordinary step and will be resorted to only when there is no other way to resolve the problem.

7. This section shall apply to all parts of this agreement.

8. Until there is resolution of any dispute that may arise concerning this agreement, the operative terms of this agreement shall remain in full force and effect.

9. Any related costs to having to seek third party resolution help shall be shared 50/50.

Review of Agreement
1. Three years from time of signing of this agreement, the custody recommendations shall be reviewed and modified as needed.

2. It is understood that any parts that we cannot agree upon will follow the Conflict Resolution definitions of this agreement.
Do you have to put 3 years before review? I would leave this open because you don't know what can or will happen.
 
#24 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsupialmom View Post
as much as I agree with this you need to allow room. As worded it is demanding and not realistic. In some areas there are still restaurants with smoking sections. Then you also have to walk by smoking areas. Make it that you, your ex, and future partners cannot smoke around the children.
I actually support JSMa on this one. When we went to court the Judge made it very clear that ds was not to be around anyone smoking, he was not to be taken in a car that had been smoked in, he was not to be brought in a house that people smoke in (even if they weren't smoking at the time he was there), etc etc. Yes this prevents ex from taking ds in his car. It prevents him from taking ds to his house and his parents house. But it keeps ds safe and that is the most important thing (ds has some health issues, after this court appearance he was diagnosed with RAD- respiratory airway disease). This means that we can't take ds to any restaurant that still has a smoking section (thankfully the city we live in has taken a huge stance against smoking in public so this isn't a problem except when we visit other states). But, honestly, we would have taken that step even if there wasn't a court order in place. If ex really cared about ds and wanted to spend more time with him (and take him in his car or to his house) he would have quit smoking 6 years ago when the Judge first ordered all this. But he chose not to and there's not much I can do about that.

The smoking is a hill I would die on.
 
#25 ·
@ Pink


Quote:
It is agreed that JSMa will set up appointments and inform STBX of the dates and times. Either parent, or both will accompany child to appointment, as schedules allow. This will be discussed when JSMa informs STBX of appointment time.

I know that my DH would have never agreed to something like this, but he is the primary appointment-maker by default. Does this apply to things like urgent care visits (not an emergency but something requiring care on a weekend)? Looking at it in a completely impersonal way (as in, this is some random agreement - not yours), something about it rubs me the wrong way. Like as a parent, he doesn't have the right to seek medical care for his child.
I think somewhere else in the agreement covers that he can take care of day-to-day parenting decisions on his time... I think that covers urgent care visits?

If not, maybe I should specify well check-ups to this part? STBX has always left myself or his other ex up to setting appts, so I don't think it would be an issue for him.

Obviously, if he feels the child needs to go to urgent or emergency care, he should do so.

Quote:
DD will spend every other weekend with STBX (on same weekends as her older sister). STBX will pick up DD from her daycare at approximately 3:30 pm Friday afternoon, until 10:00 am Sunday morning.
What if she isn't at daycare? If she is at home with you for some reason, would it be possible for him to require that you drive to the daycare?
I hope not! lol I can't forsee STBX getting this nit-picky, but I will work on a wording that covers him picking her up from wherever and if that is at daycare and if he is late, then he is responsible for paying that time.

Quote:
STBX is also welcome to visit with DD during the week, Monday through Thursday, between the hours of 4:00 pm to 7:00 pm, when his schedule allows. He is to give JSMa at least 24 hour notice if he plans to visit during this time, so she can ensure her and DD do not have conflicting plans and are home. If plans conflict, STBX will have to request a new time to visit.
Looking at this from his point of view, what if you decide to have a conflict every day? Then he is screwed.
Hmm... I was trying to show flexibility here, that I'm not trying to keep his kids from him, or whatever. Right now I just have a lot of appts to keep up with, that is why I have about notice. Maybe I should try to think of specific days to offer this instead and just try my best to schedule my appts around those specified days.

Quote:
Visitation Schedule for DS
DS will be primarily in JSMa's care for at least the first 6 months from birth. No overnights are to take place until DS is eating solid foods in addition to breast milk, and also sleeping through the night (waking no more than once per night).
My child was well past two before this happened, and even at three it happens a few times a week.
Yeah, DD is in a new phase where she is waking once a night again.


But this specific wording came straight from my lawyer about what the Masters will enforce with a baby.


Quote:
Once DS is on solid foods and sleeping through the night, approximately 6 months of age, we will progressively work towards overnight visits. This will start with STBX taking DS for 4-6 hour spans on every other Saturday (on weekends he has older daughter for visits) for at least two months time.
Will your DS be at daycare at this point? Your STBX might be able to say, "Hey, she'll leave our son with someone who could be a complete stranger for eight hours at a time, but his own father gets eight hours a month?"
DS will be in daycare at this point, but both he and DD will still only be going part time, with a max of 3 - 3.5 hours per day at daycare. The mornings they are with either one of my parents.

And with this, he is still welcome to come over during the week, so it could actually balance out that he'd "log" more hours with DS than daycare. If he chooses to make the half hour drive during the week. (which he has already been complaining about)

Quote:
If DS is doing well, it can progress to 6-8 hours on every other Saturday for at least two months time.
What is "doing well"? Who determines a) that definition and b) whether he is meeting it?
Fair enough... I will cut out the part about doing well, and just hope for the best.


Quote:
It is understood that if at anytime it is apparent that DS is not adjusting well, example, excessive screaming/crying fits, showing anxiety, etc, JSMa is to be called and the visit is to be cut short. If DS is showing signs that he/she is not quite ready for a longer visit, another month will be added onto whichever hour/overnight visitation stage he is at.
This seems very subjective. Who makes the determination?
Another fair point... I will nix this part as well.

Quote:
It is understood that this visitation schedule for DS takes precedence over any of the holiday schedules listed.
So what if Christmas Eve is a Saturday night on STBX's weekend? Then he would definitively get DS, but in theory not DD?
I meant this in regards to overnights, if DS isn't at the overnight point yet, then he wouldn't be spending the night for Christmas... but maybe this is something I have to let go of too... *sighs*

Quote:
If the holiday time creates one parent having three weekend visits in a row, it is understood that the following weekend after the holiday (the would be third weekend) will be adjusted to the other parents time.
This seems super-confusing. With him having only EOW, all of the holidays are really going to wind up messing with the schedule. Also, what constitutes an "event"? Could he have his girlfriend over to grill hotdogs on Memorial Day and call it a BBQ? What if it was his mom instead?
In wording it likely is confusing... it's something that him and his ex have done since the begining and it worked for them, and they both were reasonable with it. So I was going off of that... Basically they ask each other as one of these 'meh' kind of holidays is approaching and sees if anyone has plans and they work it out. There has actually never been a fight between them over this... which is surprising as you know the story of both him and her. lol


He does seem to be a little more hmm... not as flexible with me? So maybe I should just break these into some kind of every other schedule too...

ToT - yeah, I'm letting that go. lol

Quote:
Easter/ Thanksgiving/Christmas
It has been decided that Easter/Thanksgiving/Christmas will be held at the primary residence until the younger child is two years of age.
If STBX contests this, I don't think you will win this one. Looking at it as if it was just anyone, it seems unfair.
I'm going to try, it's only this year and next year. If not, well then I guess I will have to learn to be okay with him getting next year...

Quote:
Christmas
6:00 Christmas Eve until 6:00 Christmas Day
Christmas Eve festivities often start earlier than this (although maybe this is regional). Heck, we are usually leaving for home around 6:30 from DH's family's celebration. This might not be true now, but what if you re-partner and his family starts celebrating earlier or something like that?
I can bump it up to 3:30, but that is likely the earliest he will be able to get them, because he will have worked the night before and sleeps in the morning, by time he will mosey on down our way, it will be in this time period. And they would be at daycare until this time... STBX could pick them up from daycare early if he needs/wants to.

Quote:
Thanksgiving
Thanksgiving Day 10:00 am until 6:00 pm
This seems early for an end time. What if you re-partner and they are 4:00 eaters?
I was thinking of bedtimes, and such... I could push it to 7:00? This is a new thing for me to think about. Him and his ex just switched the full day/night every other year. I suppose I could do that too...

Quote:
In December, JSMa's family also hosts a family Christmas party on one of the Saturdays in the month. It should be accommodated for JSMa to have the children on this Saturday for the children to attend to ensure family bonds.
If you take time of his for this, he should get make-up time. The man only gets four days/month.
*nods* Yes, I agree that he would get make-up time... but I'm thinking about nixxing this whole part and just going with the if it falls on my weekend, they get to go, if not...
I could ask, but if he says no, that's going to have to be okay.

Quote:
If child cannot go to daycare due to sickness, each parent takes turns to miss work.
I understand why you have this, but looking at it totally neutrally, it seems unfair. Like you want the upsides of being the CP but not the downsides, IYKWIM. When you are the NC parent, your life is often set up in such a manner that reflects this.
I get what you are saying... but this stems from something that STBX has always offered his other ex... she just never took him up on it.

Quote:
We shall arrive on time (no more than 20 minutes early or late) to drop off and pick up of our children.
Maybe I missed it, but transportation in general seems vague. Who does each specific pick-up/drop-off and where? What about holidays?
General rule is whoever's time it is does pick-up. So, he wants the kids for the weekend, he picks them up. I want them for the week, I pick them up at end of weekend. I will look into wording this somewhere.

Quote:
Out of Town Travel
If parent is planning on going overnight out of town anywhere with the children, the other parent should be notified. The parent with the children in their care should be able to be reached by phone in case of any emergencies at all times, and should provide alternate numbers if there is no cell phone service.
What is "out of town"? I think our agreement says "50 miles outside of the metro area" or something like that.
I will add our general area location name, which spans several cities, not sure of the exact mileage, but the only time he'd cross out of the general location, which has a name, but I won't put here for privacy reasons, would be at least an hour and a half travel time one way.

Quote:
Communication
All communications about the children shall be written in a communication book, which shall pass with the children as they pass between households. In it are to be noted important events/milestones of the previous week, the child's health and need for current medication, and upcoming appointments that may effect the children's scheduling. Requests for adjustments in parenting times may also be entered. While each parent is encouraged to respond to all requests within 48 hours, silence in regard to a request shall be considered a "yes". The book may not be used to criticize either parent's behavior.
This seems dangerous. What if he requests something, you want to say "no," but he makes himself inaccessible so you cannot do so within 48 hours?

Also, even if you have a conversation about something (i.e. "milestone," which probably needs defining), does it still have to be documented in the book? This seems like a good idea, but something that might not work so well IRL if one of the parents (STBX) is only approaching it half-heartedly.
*nods* I was on the fence with adding this in or not. It was something that was on the parenting agreement guideline I was following online and I thought it was a neat idea, in theory. But I could see STBX not really using it. I may just end up having my own notebook of notes of neat things the kids did to give to him, just for my own memory, because, um, yeah it's not that great these days! lol Like I keep forgetting to tell him how much DD has been using her potty this week!!


Quote:
Right of First Refusal
If either parent will not be available to be present for more than two hours of their parenting time, that time should be offered to the other parent before any other care options are sought out.
How does this work with daycare?
He had the option to watch DD still in the morning... I think this is what you mean by this? But he chose to not do this so he can sleep and watch his older DD in the afternoons now.

Quote:
STBX agrees to stay in counseling that is geared to anger management.
For how long?
I don't think I should have to decide this? I think it would look ultra controlling if I did. Maybe I can add in until his counselor deems neccessary? But that may bite me, because he seems to have her manipulated pretty good.


Quote:
We shall not use, nor allow anyone else to use, physical discipline with our children, ever!
I just don't know if you will get this one. I agree with you, but I am not sure if the court will if STBX has an issue with this.
My cousin was able to get a judge in this county to uphold this in her's because of anger issues with her ex... so I'm hopeful if this does have to go to court, that it will fly.

Quote:
Our children are to never be around XX, the paternal step grandfather, without themselves being present with him.
This is kind of clunky. I assume you mean, "without a parent present with them"?
Ooops! Yeah I need to fix wording on that!

Quote:
We agree to not leave our children in the sole care of any significant others, until the relationship has reached at least six months, and the other parent has been given the option to meet with the new partner and feel out their parenting philosophy. We are to respect each others need to feel safe and trusting with who our children are left in the care of.
Shouldn't the ROFR cover this? What if you re-partner, he is a great guy, but your STBX is just feeling like making your life difficult because of jealousy/anger?
Hmm... I'm not sure. I realize this goes both ways and I could get screwed... but I'm not sure how to put something in. I know STBX is a serial dater. And he had me watching DD all day while he was at work only 2 months after we had first started dating again. (I went along with it because he explained how we had actually known each other for years, etc. and you know, fresh love, NRE leaves you blind
)... anyway, I'd rather not have my children in all day care with some strange girl he picked up at a bar... kwim? How can you add some protection in for this sort of thing?

Quote:
3. Meet and confer with an expert in the field related to the dispute, e.g., doctor, teacher, counselor, etc. If there is no resolution at this step, we will then:
Who picks the "expert" - do you each get one?
Good question... I think we should both do our research?
 
#26 ·
@ Marsupialmom

Quote:
Leave out exclamation. Also, I would suggest the methods like 1,2,3 Magic by Dr. Thomas Phelan. This method will help keep your ex-cool headed. It is respected. It also describes how the parent should react. I know some people on this board don't like it but, IMO, it is a middle ground
I don't think the courts will enforce any kind of reading material...

Quote:
I would include reference to the article were Ferber recants.
I don't think the courts will appreciate links to any research, and as pointed out, likely won't enforce or get involved in parenting differences.


Quote:
What is reasonable visitation?
What is outlined in the visitation agreement...

Quote:
10 am is to early. Heck half the time we are not up at 10 am. I would push it to 3 pmish or later. Imagine doing something with your kids on the week end and you want to let them sleep in on Sunday but court order means they have to be out the door at 10 am. This is asking for a night mare situation for YOU because they don't get this sleep time or have to rush through the morning.
That may not work for your family... but I know my family and this does work. My DD is typically up by 7:00 am. And on Sundays, STBX has to lay down by 3:00 pm to get some sleep before he goes to work that night. He has had his eldest DD picked up at 10:00 am for about a year now... this works for us.

Quote:
I would change the word welcome it is a controlling word and give the feel that he has to have permission to be around his child. I would also have an online calender set up for major/school activities. I would also see if having a more set schedule instead of when it is convenient. If he has a job were he can have every tuesday off then let that be his evening. If he has a job that post the schedule a few days prior set up notice then -- like if the schedule is posted on Thursday then Friday he has to tell you what evenings he can have her. Then you work from there. If you know on Friday his only evening off is Wednesday you can make your schedule around that. You can also tell your child if she asked to go with a friend on Wednesday she needs to discuss it with her dad.
I don't see how welcome is controlling? I thought it was being nice...


As for major/school activities... there is none. lol My children are babies, well technically one isn't even born yet!


The appt conflicts now would be my personal appts, prenatals, chiro, counseling, etc... which STBX has no right nor need to know. So, I will not be handing that information over freely.

I think I will choose to specific dates he can come visit if he so chooses to do so.

Quote:
again I think your notices should come within 24 hours of him receiving his schedule.
He has a set schedule.

Quote:
as much as I agree with this you need to allow room. As worded it is demanding and not realistic. In some areas there are still restaurants with smoking sections. Then you also have to walk by smoking areas. Make it that you, your ex, and future partners cannot smoke around the children.
How is not realistic? If people can't refrain from smoking in front of my kid, they don't need to be around them. DD has a slight case of asthma and I already have to worry/deal with her sleeping in a room EOW that is right next to two rooms that people smoke in all the time when she isn't there, like it doesn't seep into her things... This means no one is to directly smoke in front of her.

Quote:
Do you have to put 3 years before review? I would leave this open because you don't know what can or will happen.
I think three years is adequate and gets us up to the point where DD is school aged (preschool anyway) and some things may have to be tweaked because of that.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top