Mothering › Forums › Education › Learning at Home and Beyond › SO frustrated! 4 yr old WILL NOT let us do school!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

SO frustrated! 4 yr old WILL NOT let us do school!

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
Frustrated doesn't even begin to describe it. I am ready to scream. In fact, I already have screamed and thrown a fit today.

My 4 yr old absolutely WILL NOT let me do anything with my older son. He will nonstop talk in our faces, do silly things to distract us and make us laugh, yell potty talk, and constantly interrupt no matter what tactics I use to keep him occupied elsewhere or include us in our lessons.

I am just trying to do something light with my older son over the summer, read a book together, write a thank you note, play cards or yahtzee or something. He has trouble hearing and concentrating so this is really distracting and he can't do anything with his brother acting like this right next to us. Every single session involves me repeatedly redirecting him, shushing him, getting increasingly more angry until it ends with me yelling at him, and giving up on the activity with my older son because we're both so frustrated. He just cannot stand not to have 100% of my attention 100% of the time, and will even start hitting and kicking me.

He did go to preschool for 3 full days a week last year, so I had those days to count on with school for my older son and the other days were hit or miss. This year he'll be going 1/2 days daily, so I'll only have 1 1/2 hr max alone with my older son to homeschool, and the rest of the time I'll have both of them, plus we have a baby who I'm occupied with much of the time. But during the summer right now, our schedule is similar to what it will be during the school year.

I have tried giving him a game or activity he can do alongside us as I do something with my older son, giving him a coloring book and saying it's his schoolwork and he can join us, gotten out special new toys for him to play with in another room, even having him watch tv, which he loves- but that whole time he will call up to us telling us about the show, or beg for us constantly to come watch with him, change the volume, etc and it's constant interruptions. And I feel really wrong relying on tv as a homeschooling tool! I will probably not hire a mother's helper, because I've done that before and my kids are HORRENDOUS for other people when they know I'm around and it's way more stress than it is a help.

I am so angry right now, and worried about how I will ever do anything this year with my son, who wants to learn and wants to do the activities, but can't with constant distraction. I honestly don't think there is any solution, except to wait it out and make the best of it until he matures, but wanted to vent and see if anyone else is in the same boat. Unfortunately, public kindergarten is looking more and more attractive for him, because homeschooling the two of them is looking like a nightmare.
post #2 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awaken View Post
He just cannot stand not to have 100% of my attention 100% of the time, and will even start hitting and kicking me.
My 4 year old was a HORRIBLE whiner. It was the one thing that drove me up the wall and that's about the only way he talked. I called a local parenting education place. She said of course it's what makes me crazy. He knows that. He does it to get attention.

Her advice. Ignore him when he's doing the behavior I don't like. Praise him when he's doing even a little bit of what I want him to do.

This is very hard, but it has worked tremendously. I started by telling him, "I talked to a lady who helps me know how to be a mommy. She said that when you start whining, my ears should be turned off. So from now on when you whine, my ears will be off. If you talk in a normal voice, I will be able to hear you."

For someone who is into gentle discipline and listening to your children, this was tough. He would whine and cry, "Mommy, please help me. I need you to listen to me. I need your help." I was on another planet, totally oblivious to him. He did his high drama stuff for maybe 30 to 60 minutes. He eventually did talk in a regular voice. We went through this the next day. Since then we have randomly had to do this. Mainly in the morning when he's waking up. It is amazing what a difference it has made.

Your son just wants your attention and you are giving it to him. I'd say ignore him. Even when he is hitting and kicking you. It's really hard, but it works faster than you'd think. You may want to tell him something like, "When I am doing school with brother, you may color or play with your toys. If you scream, have a tantrum, or bother us, my ears will be turned off. I will set the timer for 20 minutes. When it rings, I will read you a book. After the book I will help brother with schoolwork again." Then stick with that. Between ignoring the unwanted behavior and knowing he will get your attention soon, I would think you could deal with this in a few days. You just have to be consistent.
post #3 of 11
I might be a little stricter then some MDC parents but I would discipline the interrupting behavior. For my son he would get three warnings then sent to his room until we were done with our activity. If you want to be in the same room as me you need to behave in an appropriate way. Now that said I would also be proactive. Take a good long hard look at the time you spend with both boys. Make sure you are spending enough time 1-1 with your younger son too. Right or wrong your younger son is probably reacting the way he is because he feels the oldest is getting more attention.
post #4 of 11
Aww, that sounds tough. It sounds like younger son's need for parental attention is very high and that he's perceiving your homeschooling time with his brother as favouritism. Since he isn't able to gain positive parental focus for himself, he's settled into a pattern of agitating until he gets negative attention at least. It's tough for everyone -- especially for you -- but I'm willing to bet younger son is really struggling with his need to feel important and loved.

How old is older son? What is the age gap? Is there any way you could adjust a portion of the homeschooling so that it includes both kids? I mean, if you and your older ds are reading a book together, why couldn't it be a book that the 4yo shares listening to? Choose the book with him in mind, give him a word to try to find on each page, put him in charge of finding the main character's name on a page before you read it? If you are playing Yahtzee, he could be the dice roller for you, he could report on the rolls, whatever.

If you absolutely need one-on-one time with your older son, you could try time-shifting bedtimes so that the 4yo goes to bed an hour or two before his brother. The last hour of the day could be some quiet academic time for your older ds. He might sleep in a bit longer than his younger brother in the morning as a result, but that would allow you to "fill up" your 4-year-old with a bit more of the parental attention he's clearly craving.

Is their dad in the picture on a daily basis? If so, there's nothing that says the one-on-one time has to happen during "school hours." You could spend weekdaytime involving all your kids in household work, conversations, free-form projects, play, field trips and so on, and shift the academic stuff into the evenings and weekends. At that point dad could take 4yo outside to toss a ball around, for a walk with the baby, or he could do the bath-and-bed routine with him, play games or whatever.

I had a period of time when my eldest was very keen on sit-down-school-time. She was about 7 and her very busy siblings were 4 and 2. We made big use of evenings when daddy was around, and let her stay up until at least 10 pm. She was able to spend a good three hours in the evenings practicing violin and piano, hunkering down with workbooks and her math program. It was unconventional, and it made for very little private time for the grown-ups, but it was only for a year or two, and overall it was an excellent solution.

Hope that helps.

Miranda
post #5 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by SundayCrepes View Post
Her advice. Ignore him when he's doing the behavior I don't like. Praise him when he's doing even a little bit of what I want him to do.

This is very hard, but it has worked tremendously. I started by telling him, "I talked to a lady who helps me know how to be a mommy. She said that when you start whining, my ears should be turned off. So from now on when you whine, my ears will be off. If you talk in a normal voice, I will be able to hear you."

For someone who is into gentle discipline and listening to your children, this was tough. He would whine and cry, "Mommy, please help me. I need you to listen to me. I need your help." I was on another planet, totally oblivious to him. He did his high drama stuff for maybe 30 to 60 minutes. He eventually did talk in a regular voice. We went through this the next day. Since then we have randomly had to do this. Mainly in the morning when he's waking up. It is amazing what a difference it has made.

Your son just wants your attention and you are giving it to him. I'd say ignore him. Even when he is hitting and kicking you. It's really hard, but it works faster than you'd think. You may want to tell him something like, "When I am doing school with brother, you may color or play with your toys. If you scream, have a tantrum, or bother us, my ears will be turned off. I will set the timer for 20 minutes. When it rings, I will read you a book. After the book I will help brother with schoolwork again." Then stick with that. Between ignoring the unwanted behavior and knowing he will get your attention soon, I would think you could deal with this in a few days. You just have to be consistent.
This. I would even make it a part of your older son's learning for a few days (or however long it takes). Teach him basic behaviorism and help him buy into the "ignore little brother" plan. Don't expect the older one to actually get any other work/learning done while you are ignoring the little one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meetoo View Post
I might be a little stricter then some MDC parents but I would discipline the interrupting behavior. For my son he would get three warnings then sent to his room until we were done with our activity. If you want to be in the same room as me you need to behave in an appropriate way. Now that said I would also be proactive. Take a good long hard look at the time you spend with both boys. Make sure you are spending enough time 1-1 with your younger son too. Right or wrong your younger son is probably reacting the way he is because he feels the oldest is getting more attention.
and this. Not sure which one I would do first. Probably the ignoring. (1-2-3 Magic-style, perhaps?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by moominmamma View Post
Aww, that sounds tough. It sounds like younger son's need for parental attention is very high and that he's perceiving your homeschooling time with his brother as favouritism. Since he isn't able to gain positive parental focus for himself, he's settled into a pattern of agitating until he gets negative attention at least. It's tough for everyone -- especially for you -- but I'm willing to bet younger son is really struggling with his need to feel important and loved.
Can you give the younger sib 1-on-1 for 15 minutes before you start school with the older one? Put it into the routine so that he knows it is coming? (Maybe a 15-minute 1-on-1 after the session w/ older brother as well, if you can work that into the routine.)
post #6 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by meetoo View Post
I might be a little stricter then some MDC parents but I would discipline the interrupting behavior. For my son he would get three warnings then sent to his room until we were done with our activity. If you want to be in the same room as me you need to behave in an appropriate way. Now that said I would also be proactive. Take a good long hard look at the time you spend with both boys. Make sure you are spending enough time 1-1 with your younger son too. Right or wrong your younger son is probably reacting the way he is because he feels the oldest is getting more attention.
We have two boys, ages 7 and 4.5. This is similar to what I do. We have a basement playroom with a TV and DVD player. While I do lessons with our 7 yo, our 4 yo has some options: play or watch a movie in the basement, play quietly on the computer upstairs with us (if we are not using it), play quietly with some toys upstairs with us, or hang out at the table with us and work with his own materials (paper, pencils, markers, stickers, cards, puzzles, manipulatives, etc). All of these are open to him. But if he repeatedly interrupts us attempting to distract us from or disrupt the work we are doing (not just asking for help with his own materials - that is fine), he has to either go to the basement or go up to his room, and I do enforce this pretty strictly. When DS2 is cooperative (and most of the time he is now), after I am done helping DS1 through his work, I thank DS2 and will help him with whatever he wants to work on.
post #7 of 11
My son is 3, and I've had to deal with this kind of behavior on different levels. I ignore the whining first. If it goes on longer than I can stand he gets sent to his room. If he ever kicks or hits anyone, on purpose and without remorse, he gets sent to his room. No questions.

disclaimer--idk if this sounds harsh for 3, idk how other 3 yo's are, I think my ds is advanced and this discipline is def. appropriate for him
post #8 of 11
Quote:
Can you give the younger sib 1-on-1 for 15 minutes before you start school with the older one?
This is a good idea. At that age I found I could sort of "top up" my child's attention "tank" with some focused 1-on-1 time and she'd be able to sustain solo play for a while after that.
post #9 of 11
Maybe he also wants do school like his older brother. Can you include your 4 yo in school? Have you tried it? You can give him school work for preschoolers and spend some time with him while he is working on it.
post #10 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by waiflywaif View Post
This is a good idea. At that age I found I could sort of "top up" my child's attention "tank" with some focused 1-on-1 time and she'd be able to sustain solo play for a while after that.

This is exactly my thought. Though, I might even do more than 15 minutes. If you can explain the situation to your older child, will he entertain himself for a half hour while you devote your full attention to 4yo? Could you cuddle up and read books or build with him or whatever it is he loves? And explain to 4yo that you want to have good quality time with each child and he gets to go first, but that means that when it's school time, he needs to be respectful and either join in or find something to do.

I hope you find something that works. I anticipate my second son being more of a challenge during school time as well.
post #11 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace and Granola View Post
This is exactly my thought. Though, I might even do more than 15 minutes. If you can explain the situation to your older child, will he entertain himself for a half hour while you devote your full attention to 4yo? Could you cuddle up and read books or build with him or whatever it is he loves? And explain to 4yo that you want to have good quality time with each child and he gets to go first, but that means that when it's school time, he needs to be respectful and either join in or find something to do.

I hope you find something that works. I anticipate my second son being more of a challenge during school time as well.
However, I would make it a solid hour of one-on-one time with him before starting to work with your older child.

In my, admittedly short, experience, it is much easier to get through the day if the younger sibling has been given an adequate amount of attention before they are left to entertain themself. My 4-year-old can't handle a wake-up, dress, eat breakfast, brush teeth, brother starts schoolwork routine. He is allllllll over us if we try to do this. If I give him an hour of one-on-one attention, or a couple of hours to play with his brother before we start schoolwork, then he is quite happy to give me the time to work with his older brother.

If you've already tried this and it didn't work, and he truly feels the need for 100% of your attention 100% of the time, then it's time for some of the other measures discussed in previous posts! Good luck! Balancing the needs of our children seems to me to be the biggest challenge a homeschooling parent faces!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Learning at Home and Beyond
Mothering › Forums › Education › Learning at Home and Beyond › SO frustrated! 4 yr old WILL NOT let us do school!