how to talk about racism in children's books?

[cheery]

We started reading aloud The Little House on the Prairie series, starting with Little House in the Big Woods.

The blatant White Supremacy is shocking. For now I have tried to explain, as best I could to 7 yo dd, about the violent history of those times. Though it is very difficult to talk about the genocide of Native Americans and then get on with reading the story.

When you think about it the entire story is premised on some disturbing foundations. I don't think that the correct response is to avoid reading the story.

Even most of the modern children's novels presume a level of consumption that is made possible by modern occupation and imperialism, though we are polite enough not to talk about it the way the children in Laura Ingalls Wilder novels did. For example, they play games in which they are "fighting the Indians." And apparently it gets worse, though we haven't gotten to that part yet, with sayings like "The Only good Indian is a a dead Indian." I honestly don't know how we could read that part. So what to do ... wait till later? Not read it at all?

Would like to hear others' thoughts.

[Fuamami]

The first time I read these to my dd, she was younger and I just skipped through a lot of stuff.

Now, we're reading them again, and we talk about it extensively. I have read a few studies that showed that children pick up racism from what they see, hear, and read, so I talk about it all the time, anyway.

I also try to explain it in terms that preserves the humanity of the Ingalls, and other settlers (my ancestors included), by explaining that they weren't evil people, but instead were ignorant and that there was inherent cultural evil.

[fruitfulmomma]

Not for this subject specifically but I read out loud to the children a lot and find that it is generally not too difficult to skip over some of the language I'd rather not have them hear. Maybe you could read ahead and mark the pages where there are some questionable things.

One thing I would not do is explain it away with the excuse that their family was just ignorant, that's how everyone was, and now we know better.

[AFWife]

You could also explain that it was a survival thing at the time. That doesn't necessarily excuse it, but they looked at the "Indians" as a hostile people, right? They lived in fear of being attacked. It was their version of cops and robbers.

[cheery]

Re skipping the most offensive language .... I hesitate to do this. We have to acknowledge who the ppl were. The fact is, they wouldn't have all those acres and acres without the genocide of Native Americans. Can we really read all about their cozy life in the big woods without acknowledging the cruelty that makes it possible?

Even if I cannot say the offensive words aloud (which I would not want to do) I would probably explain, that they are saying something hateful and cruel and I amnot going to read it aloud but I will show it to you. So the question is, should I then wait till she is older and I am willing to show this passage to her, before even reading the entire book? Or accept the fact that we have already started reading it and deal with the fact that she is going to see it, and get introduced to a whole world of racism which she has thus far been pretty sheltered from, at least in explicit form.

On the one hand while I understand why you don't want to encourage the idea those who speak and behave in racist ways are "evil people" you can also recognize that people can and do rise above common prejudices and act very courageously. These people simply benefitted from racism.

[fruitfulmomma]

Honestly, I think the situation is far too complicated for a child that young to fully comprehend. It wasn't simply a matter of you look different than me, though that played a part in it. There was a lot going on, with both sides behaving badly at times.

I think the books can probably be enjoyed as books about the family and the cultural stuff left for later when your child is better able to grasp the concepts. Personally however we have chosen not to read them at all, for this reason and others. As our children get older they may choose to read them and we can discuss the differences in worldview that our family has versus the Engel family, while also acknowledging the many wonderful things about their family.

[MusicianDad]

We don't skip over language or offensive parts. We do talk about it. This is mostly true with classic books, we tend to avoid current books that have racist themes. The reason we do it this way is to show that things have changed since the book was written. For instance, the Little House on the Prairie books were written about things that happened in 1869 to 1870 the mindset and understanding about the natives at the time was pretty much what is portrayed in the book. It's just as important for DD to understand that these beliefs were present in the history of North America, just like it's important for her to understand that they are no longer considered right by the vast majority of people now, and that there is still a small portion of the population that believes these things.

[Lady Mayapple]

Remember in The Secret Garden when Mary first arrives at her new home, and her maid Martha tells her she thought she was a "black" because she was coming from India? Mary flies into a rage and goes on this rant about how "natives" (Mary's word for them) were just servants whose only purpose was to wait on you and obey every command. It is a touching part of the story, not only because such a young girl had been raised to believe such things but because Martha-who has probably never seen anyone outside of Yorkshire-holds no prejudice against people of other colors or races, and even if Mary had been dark-skinned it wouldn't have made a difference in how Martha treated her. So there you have two lessons-It's ridiculous to hold prejudice like Mary did, and just because you've never met someone who is different than you doesn't mean you automatically dislike them. You could even use this part of the story as a history lesson, an introduction into the British occupation of India, why it was a bad thing, etc...

However, any mention or discussion dealing with race issues, especially in literature, remains a "touchy" thing. My copy of The Secret Garden is very old, and out of curiosity I looked at a new copy at the bookstore to see if anything had been changed or edited. To my delight, everything has stayed the same in the new edition.

[Skim]

I think it's great you are talking to your child about white supremacy. My dd1 was definitely able to talk about racism and white supremacy as a 7yo, and we did. We also talked about genocide of the indigenous population through land acquisition and cultural erosion. We still do. There is no easy way around it, yet it is essential if you live in the United States - especially if you have the privilege to be able to make a choice as to whether to discuss it or not.

For us, sometimes after we've discussed something really hard and sad we've read in the past, like Europeans trying to kill all Natives and the buffalo, or the institution of slavery and African slaves, she won't feel like reading some more. Other times, she has wanted to continue with the book. And as questions come up again throughout our day-to-day, we discuss them as best we can. And she processes all this in her play with friends and her younger sister, and quietly alone. But that's just her. She is able. I'm not sure her sister will be.

You will find your way. I'll be lurking for others' responses, too.

[cheery]

You could also explain that it was a survival thing at the time. That doesn't necessarily excuse it, but they looked at the "Indians" as a hostile people, right? They lived in fear of being attacked.

Well i would not agree it was survival, because there would have been ways for the various peoples to survive, had that been their goal. Land grab was the goal. The "fear of being attacked" is what justified white supremacy throughout the south, even into recent decades and in some places even today. It is like saying all the wars US is fighting are about survival.

It was their version of cops and robbers.

That is an interesting take. And helps us see that who the "robbers" are depends on which side you are on.

[hildare]

i tried to post a response yesterday and it disappeared!!
lots of people find elements of children's literature problematic, especially the LHOTP books, which do have some good things to offer. Some folks choose to use these as a means to have some really good discussions with their children. There are a TON of anti-racist parenting websites out there, too.. and blog posts galore by people who are wondering those same things. This one in particular addresses those LHOTP books in several entries.

ooh-- and this.

Louise Erdrich wrote a short series of books for the same age group from an Ojibwa perspective.. lots of people read those alongside LHOTP and use that to discuss. The first one is the Birchbark House. Those are awesome books..

i LOVE this place; it's a good resource. I think there's lots on LHOTP there if you poke around.

Herbert Kohl wrote a book called Should We Burn Babar.. you might enjoy that one.

[cheery]

Thanks for these excellent recommendations Hildare. I have requested Birchbark and the Kohl book form my library. Can't wait to read them!!

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by cheery

Well i would not agree it was survival, because there would have been ways for the various peoples to survive, had that been their goal. Land grab was the goal. The "fear of being attacked" is what justified white supremacy throughout the south, even into recent decades and in some places even today. It is like saying all the wars US is fighting are about survival.

I wasn't saying it made it okay. I'm saying that's how they looked at it. (I probably could have worded it better but Pregnancy Brain lowers my IQ)

Originally Posted by cheery

That is an interesting take. And helps us see that who the "robbers" are depends on which side you are on.

If you wanted to explain it in really simple terms to a child I'd go with the "cops and robbers" and then a little into what you said. With a 7yo I don't know that you need to go into great detail about it...just cover why they did it and that it's wrong to judge people based on race. Answer questions and cover it more in detail if it comes up.

That being said, DH and I both read the books and never got a racism talk...

[lonegirl]

I think that really it is just portraying the thoughts of the time. Are all the beliefs good? No. Are all the beliefs of today good? No. I grew up absolutely loving Little House Series(my books barely resemble books anymore). I don't feel there is any reason to omit and edit them as you read. JMO though. If questions come up discuss them....or if you feel it necessary to discuss topics do so...otherwise enjoy the family story time.

[Smokering]

The books themselves do discuss racism to an extent. Lines like "the only good Indian is a dead Indian" aren't just thrown in there. The Little House books show Ma and Pa disagreeing in their attitudes to "Indians" - Pa is somewhat more liberal and tolerant, and makes (IIRC) a few sage comments about how they were within their rights to be angry about being moved off their land. Ma's ignorance and fear are presented as such and critiqued by Laura, who sees the humanity of a Native American baby and one point and has a little moment of connection. There are also minor NA characters presented in a positive light - in Silver Lake, possibly?

I'm not saying the books are blameless or that they don't require some discussion - even Pa never gets from "poor guys, we're taking their land" to "hey, maybe we shouldn't" - but they're not just one-sided Cowboys Good, Indians Bad rhetoric either. For the time of writing, they're pretty nuanced.

[namama]

I grew up in Detroit in the 70's and 80's a white girl in a sea of darker faces --I didn't know I was white until I was around 5 when I started kindergarten and noticed how different we all were. My parents met during the race riots after MLK jr's assassination. We grew up talking and reading --discussing things we read and learning about each other.

I think difficult books are tough for kids when we don't take time to talk about them --Ingall-Wilder's books give great opportunity to discuss at a young age Erdrich adds so much to another perspective--the introduction of small pox and death to a peacefully surviving community. I've been debating about reading The Book Thief --about the holocaust --we joke, don't bring it up if you aren't ready to talk about it!

The girls have been reading about the Civil War and Slavery --I love that they are living with Obama as president --it was terrible for me growing up with the deaths of MLK Jr and so many other people who died for equality and struggled just to live next door to someone of another race (or marry one!)

Great topic.

[cheery]

Hmm... trying to keep in mind the various points some of you have shared as we read the series - we are now in the second book and if anything the racism gets worse. But that is to be expected. We are discussing the issues. I got the Birchbark book from the library, it is not as easy reading as the little house, but I will see if we can work it in for read aloud sometime soon.

On the whole I guess I am glad we have decided to read the books rather than not. Those attitudes and behaviours were part of the reality of that time and this gives us a glimpse of that. We do substitute the term Native Americans as we read. And yes, we do judge their behaviour, just as we judge our own today and try to examine the prejudices and injustices of our time. I would expect future generations to bring

Thanks again Hildaire, I read Kohl's book and can't wait to read more by him. I also came across interesting work by Karina Otoya-Knapp on confronting bias in the classroom. One article was called "More than I Bargained For"

[hollytheteacher]

We read the books outloud now and then at the preschool I teach at. There was one year that it was a HUUUGE interest and the kids would play "little house" outside every day...they would take on characters, they built an actual covered wagon and everything ( it was great and then completely conincidental the local theater near our school put on a performance of it and we worked out a field trip!).

We *do* edit a bit out for a few reasons. One, our children are multiage from 2 to 6 and obviously there is a big difference in the ability to comprehend a discussion on racism, etc. The other is that we are their teachers and not their parents, so we do try to err on the side of 'being careful' with sensative topics like that. We actually had a parent complain once when we read a book about Rosa Parks ( a completely developmentally appropriate gentle telling of the story) because the parent felt it was an "elementary school subject"

Anyway, we still do often mention that the times were very different back then and even ask the kids if they notice things that were different. They often comment on the parts about the kids playing with the pig organs (i think they make a balloon out of the stomach or something?) and things like that.

When/if I read the books with my own kid/children, I will definitely read it as is and talk about what comes up when i feel that they are old enough to really understand/comprehend it.

Hope that all made sense, i have major preggo brain right now.