Coloring within the lines

[Dandelionkid]

I was surprised they still teach this in kindergarten as per my dd's friend. Yuck. I really feel a sense of panic sometimes that my DD didn't get to do kindergarten (it's so much fun!!) but stuff like this makes me mostly glad we didn't. One of my pet peeves.

[Marsupialmom]

I have a child with motor skills issues.....if only they gave a rats butt about coloring in the lines. As uncreative as it is at the same purpose encouraging it helps develop motor skills. If they would have paid attention that my son couldn't he would have been diagnosed and helped sooner. But between pushing "being creative" with not caring he was lost, until I pulled him out. His district did studies and found a few things that could help prevent remedial and o/t for 1-3 graders was actually instructions on how to hold pencils, form letters, stay in the line. They encourage the art teacher not to have have a lot of coloring pages -- to free form it and making sure to say when coloring "don't worry about the lines."

With my next two children, we did encourage at that age trying to keep it in the line we also gave a lot of free paper to color and paint away. Coloring book pages were to keep in the lines art books, and plain sheets of paper was for what ever.

[Dandelionkid]

Yeah- I figured that it could be helpful for kids who need help with fine motor skills but I doubt that this applies to the majority of kids. I am naive but wouldn't most kids develop fine motor skills eventually through everyday play?

Teaching kids to color in the lines seems to be one of those arbitrary things.

[meetoo]

My DD went to public K, Coloring was considered a motor skill activity/transition activity, not art. They never colored in art class. Coloring does have value has a motor skill activity. Personally I think it's kinda odd to give kids a coloring page then say "don't worry about the lines". If you don't want them worried about the lines, then give them plain paper...

I'm not sure all kids will develop good motor skills just through everyday activities. I guess it also has to do with what you consider "every day activities"

[luv2homeschool]

There is definitely a correlation between coloring in the lines and penmanship. My dd will be 7 this fall and finally her writing is legible...not beautfiul, but legible. I have noticed that her coloring is also better.. she stays in the lines in a coloring book. I think they only worry about coloring in the lines now because it does help develop those fine motor skills.

[Momma Aimee]

Originally Posted by Marsupialmom

I have a child with motor skills issues.....if only they gave a rats butt about coloring in the lines. As uncreative as it is at the same purpose encouraging it helps develop motor skills. If they would have paid attention that my son couldn't he would have been diagnosed and helped sooner. But between pushing "being creative" with not caring he was lost, until I pulled him out. His district did studies and found a few things that could help prevent remedial and o/t for 1-3 graders was actually instructions on how to hold pencils, form letters, stay in the line. They encourage the art teacher not to have have a lot of coloring pages -- to free form it and making sure to say when coloring "don't worry about the lines."

With my next two children, we did encourage at that age trying to keep it in the line we also gave a lot of free paper to color and paint away. Coloring book pages were to keep in the lines art books, and plain sheets of paper was for what ever.

I am big on "if there are line we color in them" and "if you want to scribble or draw on your own use blank paper".

DS1 is 4 y 7 m and behind in fine motor .. so coloring in the lines has a lot of good.

i personally think -- and i have been wrong before -- the whole "color in the lines" idea is more about fine motor control and pratice getting the pencil / crayon where you vant it then about "killing creativity" or blind control -- i see it as a tool, a skill, like stringing beads, or glueing dry pasta shells one at a time.

and also -- maybe just me -- but it is about ordered thinking. it requires thought, effort, consentration. as PP said why give the child a page with coloring lines, then not at east make some effort to stay in them (given a child old enough, grated my 2 yo gets the same color page as his big brother but i don't even think about the lines for him yet). the lines, the trying to color in the right places, it is about ordered thinking and "creating order out of chaos" also, imo.

[kathymuggle]

While I understand why teachers like "colouring between the lines" from a fine motor point of view, the artist in me cringes at the conformity, rule based lack of creativity.

I would prefer to use other fine motor activities than colouring, things that do not relate to art, and are thus more appropriate. Mazes are great.

Kathy

[ollyoxenfree]

Are conformity and rules necessarily a bad thing in art? Must they receive disapproval and be avoided? Great, creative musicians will practice scales over and over again without being accused of lack of creativity.

I know art teachers who are concerned with the students who arrive with poor drawing and drafting skills. Yet art schools will accept students without these technical skills on the grounds that the students otherwise demonstrate great artistic ability and creativity. I don't know a single music program that would accept similar dearth of basic skills in their music students.

These different viewpoints for visual arts and music are interesting to me. I'm seriously interested in understanding the distinction that others make to explain their viewpoints.

[Geerbabe]

I think music schools are usually trying to turn out performers as opposed to composers, so they do not value the creativity as highly as the basic technical skills.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by Geerbabe

I think music schools are usually trying to turn out performers as opposed to composers, so they do not value the creativity as highly as the basic technical skills.

Hmm. Good point. Do you think composers don't need to know scales and other technical skills though? People don't object to the idea that a 5 y.o. taking piano lessons should learn scales in the same way that they object to a 5 y.o. learning to colour within the lines. I'm wondering why.

[Momma Aimee]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree

Are conformity and rules necessarily a bad thing in art? Must they receive disapproval and be avoided? Great, creative musicians will practice scales over and over again without being accused of lack of creativity.

I know art teachers who are concerned with the students who arrive with poor drawing and drafting skills. Yet art schools will accept students without these technical skills on the grounds that the students otherwise demonstrate great artistic ability and creativity. I don't know a single music program that would accept similar dearth of basic skills in their music students.

These different viewpoints for visual arts and music are interesting to me. I'm seriously interested in understanding the distinction that others make to explain their viewpoints.

I personally don't see why being techinally good at something, and praticing being techinally good at a skill has to be opposed to creativity

[Pepper44]

It doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. I enjoy coloring in the lines even as an adult. There's plenty of creative thought that can go into coloring in the lines--color choices, shade, texture of your strokes, etc.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree

Are conformity and rules necessarily a bad thing in art? Must they receive disapproval and be avoided? Great, creative musicians will practice scales over and over again without being accused of lack of creativity.

I know art teachers who are concerned with the students who arrive with poor drawing and drafting skills. Yet art schools will accept students without these technical skills on the grounds that the students otherwise demonstrate great artistic ability and creativity. I don't know a single music program that would accept similar dearth of basic skills in their music students.

These different viewpoints for visual arts and music are interesting to me. I'm seriously interested in understanding the distinction that others make to explain their viewpoints.

I read your first paragraph and thought you were being argumentative, but then I read your last that you are seeking to understand, so I will give it a shot, lol.

First off, not all visual artists agree with each other on philosophy, etc. I only speak for myself - not visual artist at large.

To respond to the middle paragraph: art and music are different.

I can (and have ) taught motivated people basic drawing skills in a fairly short amount of time. It really is not that hard to do (if the person being taught is motivated and does not come with "I can't draw!" baggage). It is much harder to help people work on taking chances, being creative, seeing things as a whole in the art world. These soft skills are harder to acquire.

For that reason: that creativity (colouring outside the lines) is harder to nurture than skills, I am against colouring pages. Now if your kid has been introduced to them and asks for them, go for it. My kids have used them at friends houses, etc...but I never tell them to colour between the lines, and I do not purchase colouring books. It is blank paper in this house, lol.



Colouring within the lines is not what art is about. Yet... colouring is seen by our culture as an art activity. I do not think we should send mixed messages so I avoid. I maintain there are other ways to support fine motor development without mixing art into the mix in an inappropriate way.


In music, I imagine, the skill required to be a musician are more concrete and take a long time to master. It is very possible a music school does not want a person with poor skills as the time it would take to bring them up to speed is simply too much, and inappropriate for the school setting.

On the other hand, someone who presents with strong creativity and passion but lacks basic drawing skills can gain those skills fairly quickly (if there is a need and desire).

Music is often performed as part of a group, visual arts are usually individual pursuits. It is not necessary for a visual artist to have the same skills as another; in music it is necessary for everyone to have a similar skill set or the ensemble will flounder.


Lastly, and this is not really relevant to art and music, but to life and the topic at hand. I want my children to think and colour outside of the box. Or at least know they can. think Ms. Frizzle: take chance, make mistakes, get messy! Having a five year old colour within the lines is the opposite of the flexibility and creativity I want to develop in children.

Now I do think there are topics and times where it is appropriate to learn the rules inside the box (not to conform to them, but to choose them). I do not think telling a 5 year old they have to colour between the lines is allowing them the choice to conform, but rather insisting (I would say indoctrinating them, but I am a bit of a Zealot) they conform.

[Lillian J]

Has anyone ever met an adult or older child who has never conquered the skill of coloring within the lines? It's just something - like so many other things we worry needlessly about - that comes in its own good time. - Lillian

[kgianforti]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

While I understand why teachers like "colouring between the lines" from a fine motor point of view, the artist in me cringes at the conformity, rule based lack of creativity.

LOL! Then you would have loved my friend who sat there with her then 3 yo, reminding her to color in the lines! I let my big girl teach herself (our girls are a week apart) and she started to only a few months afterwards. So it just goes to show that kids will do it in their own time without a helicopter parent looking over their shoulder.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by Momma Aimee

I personally don't see why being techinally good at something, and praticing being techinally good at a skill has to be opposed to creativity

I think it is a timing thing. I would promote creativity first and skills second in art, because creativity is harder to maintain and come by.

I very much believe in acquiring skills (indeed, most visual artists want skills...it is like anything else -you want skills at things you like).

Perhaps because art is so highly personal we have to be careful about coming across with unecessary judgements? I have met one too many adults who wail at me that they cannot draw. If they are questioned closely, it is often because they had a negative experience as a child where someone judged their output. I don't usually subscribe to the "children are fragile and have to be shielded from critque" POV - but art is a little different. Perhaps anything highly personal is. Singing, writing.... I tread carefully and thoughtfully in those areas.

I do think there is a time and place for both critique and skill building - it is when the artist asks for it/needs it. It is not when we feel they need it. It is not about us. Offering it an an uncalled for time (and over something as arbitrary as colouring in the lines) can shut the budding artist down.

[meetoo]

Kathymuggle: I view art in two categories, art and crafts. Art to me is free range creativity. Painting, drawing, sculpting, whatever. To me art is putting out materials and the kids decide how to use them. Crafts are a different and work on different skills. Crafts you are building aan end product, but you can still be creative within the parameters. I mean look at some of the wonderful sewing etsy artist. They all use a pattern to follow but some, truely are artist. The fact that they had lines to follow do not change a thing. We use crafts to work on motor skills, listening skills, following directions, as well as creativity... Personally i see value to both activities and think children should be exposed to both.
I worked in a preschool for a while that was NEAYC accredited for a while and it drove me nuts! We were only allowed to do process art. There are many kids that really enjoy coloring, or crafting. It might not be art, but it is still an enjoyable, educational activity. Kids should be allowed to do it.
Now I have also worked with the opposite end of the spectrum, people who felt making all the kids color a red apple was art.. So I can see where you are coming from. Honestly though, unless you are belittling a child for not staying in the lines, then I don't think you are harming creativity in any way by handing a child coloring pages and even asking them if they can stay in the lines.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by Pepper44

It doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. I enjoy coloring in the lines even as an adult. There's plenty of creative thought that can go into coloring in the lines--color choices, shade, texture of your strokes, etc.

Sure - but you choose it, right? I think it is very different from a 5 year old being handed a colouring page by an authority figure and being told they have to colour between the lines

[Momma Aimee]

Originally Posted by Lillian J

Has anyone ever met an adult or older child who has never conquered the skill of coloring within the lines? It's just something - like so many other things we worry needlessly about - that comes in its own good time. - Lillian

i usally agree Lillian, but in area i do not.

i still at 38 struggle with fine motor, my hand writting is really bad, adn i do stuggle to color inside the lines -- i grew up in the schools of theh 70's that were all about CREATIVITY and really it did nothing for me, then or now.

It is harder to color in the lines than to scribble -- but i feel we do a disservice to our kids by not challanging them.

Creative is not oh so importnat, imo, that function needs to be "skipped" in favor of it.

why have lines if not to colro inside them? again -- esptablish order in the world, and this is importnat to children -- there are guidelines there for a reason.

what is the point of scribbling acorss lines? that does nothing -- it does not accomplsih a goal (the picture) nor does it help the child learn anyhting (to establish order, or to pratice fine mortor)

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by meetoo

Kathymuggle: <snip> Honestly though, unless you are belittling a child for not staying in the lines, then I don't think you are harming creativity in any way by handing a child coloring pages and even asking them if they can stay in the lines.

Harm is an interesting word. For some kids you may be teaching conformity and some may blow it off.

As there is no need to colour between the lines (fine motor skills can be taught in so many many other ways) I wouldn't risk it. Art is a gazinga point for me though, lol. YMMV.