Seeking advice on atheism and children

[sammymama]

Hi Mamas,

I am new to this site and *so* excited to see all of the diversity represented here!! DH and I are atheist. Our DD is nearly a year old, and it's time for us to start thinking about how we are going to tackle potential issues that may arise as we go about explaining the world as we see it to her.

For example, how does it work if your parents or in-laws do not share your views? How do they talk to your children? (My Catholic mother has already informed me that she baptized our daughter the first time she met her, even though she knows that is not within our beliefs, nor wishes.) And how do you handle the pledge of allegiance (for school-aged kids)? Have you/your kids ever been discriminated against or challenged for your views? What about someone saying 'god bless you' to your child when they sneeze, or people referencing heaven to your child, etc?

I want to explain to our daughter that not everyone shares the same beliefs, but of course I want her to be respectful of other people's beliefs as well... it's hard for me to articulate exactly what I'm thinking here (still claiming baby brain/sleep deprivation!), but I suppose I'm imagining that there could be some potentially awkward moments, especially with a toddler who speaks their mind so freely... and I don't necessarily want her to be put in a position of having to defend what mommy and daddy have taught her (as I am so often challenged/ put on the defense when this topic comes up).

I would be most grateful if you mamas out there would be willing to share any experiences you've had surrounding this topic, advice, books, other resources, etc. Many thanks in advance!

[Adele_Mommy]

First, the best resource I can give you is Dale McGowan. He is the author of Parenting Beyond Belief and Raising Freethinkers. His blog is here. It is wonderful IMHO.

Now a caveat - my dh and I are agnostic and I was raised atheist by atheist parents, but I am now a Unitarian Universalist. I did not become a UU for this reason (or at least not only this reason), but I feel it does make raising a child agnostic much easier. My child fits in with her schoolfriends because she goes to church on Sunday just like them, but she also has friends at our church who think and believe more like she does. Also, she learns about other religions and how to be respectful and she has someone besides her father and me to ask all those really "big" questions.

Regarding the other issues you mention -

My dd says the Pledge of Allegiance and just does not say the phrase "under God". We have explained to her how it was added later anyway.
She has told me that no one ever seems to notice (or care).

My dh's parents were Catholic and before we had a child he mentioned that he would like to get our child(ren) baptized. His mother died before we had any children and when I was pregnant I learned that he only wanted to get our child(ren) baptized out of respect for his mother, so our dd was actually not baptized. We had a discussion about this years later and my dh mentioned that a grandparent getting a baby baptized without the knowledge of the parents is something his mother could certainly have done. We said and thought that "if it makes the grandparent feel better who cares", but I probably would have felt differently if it had actually happened to me. Interestingly, my dd did not like this idea at all and was quite concerned and had to be reassured that no, she was not baptized secretly against her will when she was a baby. Basically I would just be up front with your child later if she asks and say she was baptized and that it is a ceremony that some people like to do. Likewise, I would respond to almost any theology your relatives pass on to your dd with a simple "some people believe that, but we do not". The exception would be scary stuff about hell and offensive intolerant ideas. I would request that the relative not tell my dd things that frighten her. I would state flat out in front of both my child and the offending relative that intolerance and hate speech were not acceptable in my house and/or in front of my child.

Regarding sneezing, if someone says "God bless you" we just say "thank you. We explained to our daughter that people used to say "Gesundheit" to protect the sneezer from evil spirits and that now it is a fun superstition like blowing out the candles on a birthday cake or throwing salt over your shoulder. Then we said that saying "God bless you" was exactly the same. We actually say "bless you" or "Gesundheit" in my family ourselves.

Being an atheist probably won't be nearly as hard or even impact your parenting nearly as much as you might fear. Have fun and good luck!

[wombatclay]

Congrats on your toddler!

Are you familiar with AtheistParents or the Humanist Society? I've found both groups interesting and my atheist (parent) friends have given them thumbs up. (like a pp we attend a UU society in part to expose our kiddos to a wide variety of beliefs and practices so I'm not speaking as an atheist parent myself and can't give these two resources a btdt review )

[gun]

I was raised by an atheist and never had any troubles being stigmatized while growing up. I never felt pressured to explain my family's beliefs, nor did I feel any weirdness growing up. My grandparents were Christian and it just wasn't ever any big deal.

I always used the 'under God' in the allegiance, and always just said thanks for a God Bless you.

If you want to ask me any other questions feel free!

[Magelet]

I was raised by atheist/ maybe agnostic parents (though with some of the religious holidays of their childhood's, christmas, channukah, passover, easter in as "secular" a way possible (presents food, family, no prayer except 1 at channukah in hebrew and a couple at passover).

My advice to you is to think about how you want to deal with it if your kids DO want to be religious/spiritual. If they DO beleive in a G-d or other divine being. I remember feeling like I had to hide that I believed in G-d, and that it was a big secret. I once asked my sister and cousin if they believed in G-d like it was a much bigger secret than sharing our experiences with kissing and boys would be later. I don't know totally why I got this attitude, though I suspect it was because my mom started to refuse to come to passover (one of the big family gatherings and dinners of the year on dad's side) because my other relatives wanted to keep like 3-5 short (1 sentance, maybe 10 words each) prayers in hebrew.

Then again, my parents had a... if we ignore it it will go away attitude to religion/atheism, or so it seemed to me. It sounds like you want a much more active, engaged type of atheism to teach your children, which I think is healthy.

I think that thinking about what you will do if your child doesn't want to be an atheist as she grows up, and how to handle that would be a good thing (for any parent really. to decide how will we handle it if our child wants a different religious/spiritual path than ours).

[Galatea]

What I do is use the term god in the generic sense of universal life force, and if any religious topic comes up, I explain it like, "Some people think god wants/thinks/etc..." Like yesterday in the store, ds1 asked what "pareve" meant on a box and I said, "Some people think god cares what you eat, so 'pareve' tells these people that they are allowed to eat this." Or the time he asked about dying, and I told him that some people thought you went to heaven where god is and you see all the people who are already dead, and other people think that you are born again in another body and live another life, etc. I said that no one really knows, but that people are sometimes scared of dying, and when people are scared and don't understand something, they like to make up stories to make them feel better about it. He was satisfied with this answer. But he is 6, and extremely bright, so I think you have plenty of time. I think MIL told him about god and heaven (in reference to her dead father) but it is not as though ds1 is about to become a theist because of this. Anyway, I don't have much control over what they believe in the end - my parents both believe in god, yet I am an atheist. All I can give them is the ability to think for themselves, and hope they find something that makes them happy.

As for the pledge, I used to get all frothy at the mouth about it, and told ds1 not to say the "under god" part since it was only added in the commie-fearing 50s, but he got confused and just says it the way everyone else says it.

[KaylaBeanie]

Subbing! Not a mama yet, but I will raise kiddos to be atheist/agnostic and will not attend church of any kind. It makes me nervous, because I come from a religious family and America is still such a conservative, religious country. I worry that my kids will feel left out

[siobhang]

Originally Posted by KaylaBeanie

Subbing! Not a mama yet, but I will raise kiddos to be atheist/agnostic and will not attend church of any kind. It makes me nervous, because I come from a religious family and America is still such a conservative, religious country. I worry that my kids will feel left out

honestly, one big reason I joined the UU church is as cover for my kids. Church is BIG here - and it helped so much to have my kids be able to say that they went to church every sunday so our neighbors and their school friends could stop inviting us to their church.

A sizable percentage of our congregation are atheists, with the rest agnostics, pantheists, pagans, or loose Christians, Jews, Buddists, etc.

Now, my DH is NOT a member, though he is very supportive of us being members. He is adamantly opposed to his belonging to a church/any religion at all. Dunno exactly why.

[kittywitty]

My dh is atheist and I am pagan. I was raised Jewish and I never said the Pledge. I'd mouth it, but was against the "one nation under god" part and refused to say it. I am homeschooling my children, so it's a non-issue. As for family, they've all been respectful so far and if they pray, we just stay quiet and be bow our heads and go on. I just ignore when people say religious things to my kids but sometimes we do face akward conversations where people assume that since we are a big homeschooling family that we are conservative christians and they approach us as such and say things. I just usually find a way to end the conversation.

[Poddi]

I basically just tell them people believe in all different things and that's just fine. So far our kids don't seem to be very spiritual at all and feel fine with me telling them nothing last forever. We do live in a rather secular environment (about 50% people are not religious here) so they don't feel very different.

I actually suggest you not to talk about death too early. Depends on the kid, very sensitive kids don't accept death too well and might get upset. If you do bring it up be very gentle and sensitive about the topic. I remember being very afraid of death after a friend died when I was 6 or so. My parents didn't comfort me at all. I didn't really get better at accepting death until my 30s. I think talking about the nature of life and death is the hardest part of not having a religion.

[sammymama]

Thank you!

Hi Mamas,

Thanks so much for all of the great posts! I really appreciate your time and thoughtfulness - and links, all of which I have checked out.

I especially like the notion of needing to accept our babes for whomever they grow up to be - and what they choose to believe in. This actually hit home for me in a way that I had not really given much time to before: thinking about my Catholic mom and how it must be hard for her that I have chosen my particular path. (And, an update on the baptism thing - I really started to stew about it so I did some research and then had a simple chat with her, and she actually just said the baptism prayer over my daughter. There was no water involved, and thus no actual "sacrament" - and she said she would never do that b/c she respects our views. I appreciated that!!)

Siobhang - do you mind if I ask which UU you go to? We are new to Northern Virginia (coming from San Francisco we were SHOOOOOCKED to see the number of churches on every corner and how ingrained it is here - what's up with the number of 'reason for the season' bumper stickers???? But I digress...) I am interested in checking out a UU for the community aspect for my daughter as well, but likewise dH will have nothing to do with it.

Anyhoo, thanks again to you all and I look forward to more chats in the "tribe" forum - just found that one as well!

[2xy]

The only time religion has been an issue for my children was when we were entering the world of homeschooling ('00-'01). I quickly learned which homeschoolers were accepting of others and which ones weren't.

Back then I identified as UU and attended a UU church. It was my UU bumper sticker that made a certain family drop us like hot potatoes, because spending time with "our kind" would "drag them down," spiritually.