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DH opposed- "socialization"

post #1 of 41
Thread Starter 
I am wanting to HS my 3 boys. I want to remove my oldest from PS as I strongly feel it is not benefiting and may even be harming him. DH disagrees. He thinks that we will not be able to provide sufficient "social" experiences since I don't drive and we live outside of town limits. It's also his opinion that "they need to learn to deal with bureaucracy- which doesn't necessarily have any compassion" and "they need to learn to deal with people whom they don't necessarily like or get along with".

Any suggestions or advice for me? Opinions?
post #2 of 41
Well, here's my take.

Socialization is the process by which your children learn to get along with others.

One theory is to throw your kids to the sharks and let them figure it out. That will include bullying, humiliation, pressure and so on - because kids at school are indeed left to sort it out by themselves, with very little adult guidance. Unfortunately, kids who are bullied don't get stronger for it. They develop protective mechanisms (like withdrawing), just like they would with any abuse. Children who are abused by their parents are not better off as adults, not better socialized, than those who are supported by their parents. Same goes with kids who have been bullied, ostracized, etc. - they aren't healthier, better-adjusted adults for it.

Yup, you might encounter bullying as an adult - though it's probably a lot more rare than in school. What would somebody do who encountered a bully for the first time as an adult, with an intact self-esteem and no prior experience? Well, the details might vary, but a healthy adult who hasn't suffered years of bullying is probably better equipped to say "take a hike" to the would-be bully than one who was bullied for years. Think about it.

I know I'm focusing on bullies and that's the extreme end of "socialization" in schools, but I think it's just easier to see the constrast with more extreme examples. Personally, I was not bullied in school, but certainly ostracized. I am not more social for it, trust me. My mother says I was a very friendly child but as I grew older, I became more aloof and suspicious of people. Yes, I have to deal with people. I have to deal with people who might reject me even as an adult. I do think that if I was not thrown to the sharks, I could shrug that off as an adult better. Instead, potential rejection as an adult just brings up all those old wounds.

So I guess I'd ask your DH to explain what he thinks the process of socialization is. Does he think a kid facing non-compassion from other kids will emerge with an open heart and a set of excellent skills to deal with it? Looking back on his school time, can he think of some kids who got picked on a lot - and does he think those kids are, as adults, friendlier and happier as a result?

Here's another thought. A kid dealing with humiliation or ostracizing or whatever in their formative years has no choice but to just suffer it. An adult dealing with humiliation at work has choices. I can almost hear your husband saying "well, that's the thing, you can't just up and quit your job because somebody doesn't like you." Of course not, but who is more likely to brush off someone who is not toxic but just unfriendly or annoying or critical of you - someone who has dealt with that over and over and over again throughout school, or someone whose self-esteem is intact? Furthermore, what is the ideal reaction when dealing with someone at work who IS toxic - abusive, etc. To just accept it? Or to say "no, this isn't ok, I'm going to (tell the guy to back off, talk to the supervisor, request a transfer, whatever)"

In the adult world, we do encounter people we don't like or who don't like us, yeah. Everyone I've talked to about this (and I have talked about this) agrees that the adult world is so much better than school, though. You have so many more choices. And there just plain are fewer bullies in the adult world.

Sorry for the very lengthy and totally unorganized answer. I might not have evern really answered your question. You've just touched upon some feelings and experiences I've had. My DH also feels he is less friendly, less open, more suspicious, more sensitive to judgement and so on based on his experiences with the hellish social structure of school, of which he was even sometimes at the top of the pack.
post #3 of 41
There's lots of evidence that homeschooling doesn't hinder the development of social skills - here's a good thread to read through: DH is really worried about "socialization"
- be sure to follow the links to lots and lots more helpful input that covers the concerns he brings up and more.

But I do agree with him that it could be a problem that you're going to be isolated, unless you forsee a time in the not too distant future when you'll be able to provide them with plenty of outside social contact. It's a natural drive of childhood, and one I personally feel parents have a responsibility to provide. Most of us had the opportunity to meet lots of other children in school and other places, and even though a lot of it was not fun or positive, we did at least have the ability to have some satisfying interactions and to observe a lot. I think being outside of town can provide some great experiences, but being able to also connect with other peers is an awfully strong drive. My son is grateful for his experience of growing up in the country, but he had neighbors outside of their school hours for playmates and we got out and around to lots of other activities too. All the best in figuring out how it can work for you - Lillian
post #4 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by laohaire View Post
In the adult world, we do encounter people we don't like or who don't like us, yeah. Everyone I've talked to about this (and I have talked about this) agrees that the adult world is so much better than school, though. You have so many more choices. And there just plain are fewer bullies in the adult world.

Sorry for the very lengthy and totally unorganized answer. I might not have evern really answered your question. You've just touched upon some feelings and experiences I've had.
I thought it was all very well said! - Lillian
post #5 of 41
Oh, I forgot to point out that the school system is a very recent development in humankind. So it's not like it's a natural process for our species to have our young congregate in large numbers with minimal adult input. In times and places without large school systems, kids have a few "neighborhood" friends of varying ages (plus, naturally, siblings and cousins and so on) - and that's all they need to learn how to get along with each other.
post #6 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillian J View Post
But I do agree with him that it could be a problem that you're going to be isolated, unless you forsee a time in the not too distant future when you'll be able to provide them with plenty of outside social contact. It's a natural drive of childhood, and one I personally feel parents have a responsibility to provide.
That is true, and my diatribe probably made it sound like I'm against kids having ANY friends, lol. But, yeah, kids do need friends. But they don't need hundreds of kids from 8am to 3pm, 5 days a week.

I don't have any answers or opinions on how many friends and how often is best, though. Figuring that out myself, for DD. I'm isolated for different reasons - can't drive and have a real hermit for a husband. Actually, that can be kind of a reassuring story - even in my situtation, DD has several friends. And is she socialized? Oh my, I can only hope she'll stay this way forever - so friendly and open and sweet and interested in other people and empathetic... etc!
post #7 of 41
I agree with everyone of course

Socialization like kids get in schools is very much overrated and often harmful (imo). I don't think that is a must have? It seems ridiculous to me that it is thought as necessary when it is such a relatively new part of society.

Also, I do agree though that kids do need some real socialization. Now, how much and what kind that varies widely from kid to kid as it does from person to person. My kids are both social butterflies and would love to be out all day every day. I need down time myself- so we have to balance both our needs of course. Only you know your kids and what they need though.

Also, there are social freaks everywhere. Plenty of them in school and often plenty made that way BY school. Some people are just different and that is ok. I don't think throwing them to the lions is the answer either. To be constantly inundated with such things is not helpful at such a young age.
Anyway, kids that are hs'd have a greater chance(often) to experience socializing w/ a larger variety of people. We go to the library every week, shopping in the wk, swimming classes, co-op on Friday and various other things each present an opportunity for socialization.
post #8 of 41
Quote:
Any suggestions or advice for me? Opinions?
Well, you need to figure out what opportunities you will have for them for socialization. If you don't drive, you will really need a game plan. Have you connected with any local homeschool groups? Are the kids involved in or do you have plans for them to be involved in any activities with other kids, be it music, sports, etc.? When you say you don't drive, do you mean that you can't or that you only have one car? Maybe you can work out a schedule with your DH where you drop him off at work on certain days or he carpools and you have the car available to get involved with a co-op or something. Are you withing walking distance to anything like a community center, the library, etc.? What is the situation like in your neighborhood?

Homeschooling is not isolating in and of itself, but it does take some work to make sure you have the right balance for your kids and your family. I think your best bet would be to come up with a game plan to get connected with other families and activities, show your DH what you have planned, and take it from there.
post #9 of 41
We are possibly going to homeschool too. If we do, we plan on "socializing" with local groups, and then with the money we save on private school, we are going to send them to summer camps (when they are ready and want to). Its not that I worry about socializing, its just that the camp I want to send them to, they don't take bullying and are very proactive on dealing with many issues with the kids. WAY more attention than any public school would give. Every child I was with at camp walked away a better, more confident person! I can't wait to send them!

J
post #10 of 41
Very similar to what Lillian said, I think it's important for children to have a chance to meet enough children that they have a chance to make some decent friends, perhaps even some best friends. One of my favourite parts of homeschooling/unschooling is that it affords me the opportunity to give my children plenty of time to play with friends, to get to really know how to get along with them, get close to them, learn to socialize well, deeply, kindly, etc. I do feel like my children would miss out if I had not been able to afford them those opportunities.

Honestly, it makes me so much happier to have all of that time to socialize and just plain talk to all of those children's parents, too!

Sooo...I also, wonder what your life is like now in a social manner, and whether or not your children will be HAPPY if you can't drive them to visit and play with friends every once in a while. (like once a week, at least?!?) Do you already know homeschoolers that you can invite over to your home, instead?

Other than that, I think you would have a wonderful life homeschooling, as I think it's the very best way for everyone to facilitate the growth and natural education of their children.
post #11 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverSky View Post
Do you already know homeschoolers that you can invite over to your home, instead?
Something to keep in mind is that "If you build it, they will come." If you have something stimulating and fun at your home - I had a science club, for instance - and if you're willing to do the work to make it happen, parents will be willing to drive their children to it and have their own social time together while the children take part in it and then play. Lillian
post #12 of 41
Thread Starter 
ok so...
I don't know how to drive. We live just outside of town. I want to get a bike with trailer for kids so I'm/we're mobile.
We don't know other hs'ers (yet) but I'm working on it!
I'm not poo-pooing my children's social needs (not saying anyone here said I am) and I realize I still need to make concrete plans as to how to do so.
DS1 has been the target of bullies for 2+ years now.
post #13 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillian J View Post


Something to keep in mind is that "If you build it, they will come." If you have something stimulating and fun at your home - I had a science club, for instance - and if you're willing to do the work to make it happen, parents will be willing to drive their children to it and have their own social time together while the children take part in it and then play. Lillian

thanks for a great idea!
post #14 of 41
Join the local yahoo homeschooling boards. In Portland, we have 3 main boards and lots of smaller ones. ORSIG is statewide but not so helpful, IMO.
post #15 of 41
Just a note of amusement. Why is it if school is for learning socialization is always people's biggest concerns about homeschooling, but in school kids get penalized for being too social?
post #16 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacquelineR View Post

thanks for a great idea!
I'm not sure whether you mean the just idea of creating a fun thing to draw people to your home or the idea of a science club - but if you meant the science club, I have some tips. I started out thinking I'd be presenting experiments to do with them, and it took only a week or two before I realized that was going to be a nightmare. So I told them all to each bring an experiment every week to share - that way, they and their moms would do the research for them in kids' science experiment books from the library and book stores, and they'd all gather up the necessary materials for everyone to participate. It was FABULOUS! There was only one time that there was a duplicate experiment, and that was no problem. I'd also thought we'd sort of be discussing what we were learning in a semi-formal way, kind of like a little class (these were a tiny group of very bright boys who loved science) - but it took no time at all to realize that was absolutely unnecessary, and that it didn't matter a bit whether what they learned was sticking in any permanent way, because the important part was to think and observe and be delighted with science. The bigger part of the day was pure unbridled play - that was the part they looked forward to the most, but the science was a delightful frame for it all. So my bottom line advice is to just let it be casual fun of their own, and keep the moms out of it except to help set up equipment and distribute materials at the direction of whoever's leading the experiment. Lillian
post #17 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacquelineR View Post
ok so...
I don't know how to drive.
Is there something preventing you from learning?

I agree that school is not necessary for socializing and I feel it's detrimental to good socialization, but I also agree that opportunities for regular social interaction need to be had.
post #18 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xy View Post
Is there something preventing you from learning?
Yes. There are a few things. That's all I'll say on the subject.
post #19 of 41
When I homeschooled in Atlanta there is no way that I could have socialized my dd without driving around to various classes, playgroups and such. No one would come to your house unless they knew you very well and all the kids got along.

In your case, I agree with your hubby.
post #20 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by philomom View Post
When I homeschooled in Atlanta there is no way that I could have socialized my dd without driving around to various classes, playgroups and such. No one would come to your house unless they knew you very well and all the kids got along.
There's truth to that - I had to spend a lot of time at homeschool group get togethers before I knew people I could invite to come to my house for science club. If I had been some sort of science expert who ran a little ad in the newsletter about running a free class or workshop on it, that may have brought some to it - but it does ordinarily take some networking to get connections going. - Lillian
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