putting my child in the bathroom?

[ldsmom06]

I am very frustrated with ds Montessori school! He has been going since the fall and they have had trouble with him stopping tasks when the bell rings. He wants to finish them. They "punish" him when he ignores them with placing him in the bathroom for time out! I have told them all year that that is not appropriate and I do not want that. They don't listen. They also take activities away from him and I think that is unfair too. They took away family science night because he accidentally threw his ball over the fence and tried to get it. He flailed and while wiggling hit his teacher. They sent him to the directer office and she called me and said to punish him he can't go. I said he will be going anyways. Well when talking with my dh she changed her mind. They tell me ds is very intelligent but he fidgets and ignores them when they are speaking to him. they thought he was not paying attention to a presentation and gave him time out and come to find out he recited the whole presentation. Don't get me wrong ds is very stubborn and irritating at times but I feel he needs to be treated better. They said that no other kids act like him. He is NOT violent like some other kids he just ignores authority and does what he wants. They also don't let him to the sound table or sand writing table a lot because he is too hyper from my understanding. Ds most days just mopes around the house with no energy so sometimes its hard for me to picture him running off like he sometimes does when they discipline him. Any thoughts? Is that typical of a Montessori school?

I forgot to say dd is in the toddler program as of last week and they called me because she had an poop accident and wanted to cut off her swim suit and throw it way instead of pulling it off her and cleaning her up. I went to the school to help since it was a brand new suit and I think it is stupid to cut off a toddlers underwear or swim suit if they have an accident. Later they told me that because she is so big then can't lift her into the sink so that's why they couldn't clean her off.

I am just so frustrated with the school! Please let me know what you all think. Thanks!

ETA: ds will be 4 in August and Dd is 2.5

[Drummer's Wife]

No, none of that is typical of a Montessori school. The bathrooms are for going to the bathroom! Weird that they would put him in there. Time outs are not common, anyway. Punishing/rewards are neither very Montessori, so taking away activities for behavior or not letting him attend science night is absurd.

I assume you are paying quite a bit of money for your children to attend this school? Honestly, I would be pulling them out and finding a more authentic program, or even a non-Montessori school/daycare that would be more respectful of your children and you.

[ldsmom06]

My dh won't pull him out because we would lose out $1000 deposit plus the fist 2 payments of tution for fall and they are in summer school. I HATE his school I feel like they are treating him like a dog not a wonderful child that he is. We have paid a lot of money and I really want to find a new school. Dh says I can find a new school for both ds and dd in the winter.

How can I find a true Montessori school for him(and dd)? When we signed him up we thought that was what were going to get from this school

[poppan]

That sounds so awful, but $1000 + fall tuition is a lot of money. I think I would talk to the school and basically try to reach a compromise on the "disciplining"/crazy attitudes or get your money back so you don't have to go there in the fall. Really, I'd just try to get my money out -- do they have marketing materials or a contract that says they're going to do things a certain way or have a certain philosophy that you feel they're not fulfilling? I'd just try to pin it on them and say they aren't fulfilling their end of the agreement so I'd just like my money back please.

[Rafman'sMama]

Just from what you said, the school sounds terrible!!! I wouldn't like to have my little one there at all! I would have a pretty serious discussion about getting your money back. They don't sound like they know how to deal with kids at all. That is strange about using the bathroom as time out. A friend of mine had a really bad experience at a Montessori school where they repeatedly left her son in the bathroom for an hour because he couldn't/wouldn't pull his own pants up :-( Also, if they have a toddler room, then they should know how to take care of potty incidents! I hope they didn't meant that she was too heavy to lift in general? Teachers need to be able to lift a child for all sorts of situations. I think Montessori schools have a generally good philosophy, but just because they label themselves Montessori, you can't assume excellence.

[MattBronsil]

Originally Posted by ldsmom06

I am very frustrated with ds Montessori school! He has been going since the fall and they have had trouble with him stopping tasks when the bell rings. He wants to finish them.

Have they tried monitoring their time more to help notice when he'll be going for a long work before the end of class or even give him a warning that time is almost up? Many students don't have a concept of time and to ask them to suddenly stop and do something else is simply not fair to them.

I'd be frustrated with what you said.

[sapphire_chan]

Pull him out and take them to small claims court for the deposit.

[RollerCoasterMama]

DS isn't in a pure Montessori school...I researched enough to know that. It's not perfect, but they understand kids and genuinely love them. And just as an example...DS started M. preschool at 2.5. He was the youngest there and very ... um...spirited! I had some concerns after a couple of months about whether it was a good fit and the owner/director went over them with me until we were comfortable. At our parent-teacher conference, she told me how he was settling in. And mentioned that he had a little trouble transitioning between activities sometimes, so they just made sure to give him a little heads up before it was time to be finished. The one class that he consistantly "chose not to participate" in those first few months, they made sure that they had something for him to do. And in the very beginning when he was really testing boundaries...they had extra staff around to keep DS and the other almost 3 yr olds from running off since their location didn't have a fence around the playground equipment yet. (It's a HUGE grassy field in back of a church.) They worked with the children to meet their needs. And especially with the little ones, they try to create an environment that minimize chances to be disruptive...with plenty of time to be silly and run around in between. Those kinds of efforts are the reason that I overlook the little things I don't love about the school.

In your OP, I was more and more horrified with everything you described! And what on earth is going on with cutting off clothes if the toddlers have an accident???? And they left her in it until you got there?

In your shoes, I'd be scheduling a meeting with the owner immediately. Go through your contract with them with a fine-tooth comb before the meeting. Heck, for that amount of money, I might even consider a consult with a lawyer.

You should absolutely be getting a full refund. This is ridiculous. And you don't need the extra stress of knowing your kids are in a situation that isn't good for them because you feel stuck. Been there, done that and it was HORRIBLE.

How does your DH feel about these things? It's a lot of money and I'd fight for it to the end, but I hope you can get his support to pull the kids out of that school either way!!!

[Ellien C]

OK - not a M. parent but a good friend is and I'm familiar with the concept. Seriously! This school doesn't sound like they understand children at ALL. This is a 4 yo? And cutting clothes off for a potty accident? How traumatizing that could be.

Is this really where you want your kid? I understand being committed to the M. philosophy but you are NOT getting that here. Are there any other options for a more gentle, fun, active pre-school for your little boy? Really depending on the size of your city, you might broaden your search. I'm not nocking M at all - but THIS can't be the experience you want for your children. I don't want to see you narrow your search.

[luv-my-boys]

Honestly I would be livid! No matter what *philosophy* you are this place just does not sound right.

1. Leaving a child (I assume alone unless a teacher sits there as well) in a bathroom is unsafe and unsanitary. Literally, I would be contacting a licensing agency in your area and post them that question. I know in my neck of the woods placing a child in a bathroom for reasons other than pottying or heck even if they are going for long periods of time is reason enough to be cited at the least.

2. who in there right mind would cut clothing off a soiled child? accidents happen especially with this age group and I would think that providers would be equipped to deal/clean up those messes. Leaving a soiled child until you came is cruel, again I would totally call a licensing agency an pose that question to them.

3. It seems that this place is not a good fit all around. I would seriously talk to the director on that point and get out of there ASAP!

[GuildJenn]

That's awful. I agree that you should go try to get your deposit back, or stop payment on the cheques. Time for a new school.

[tzs]

that's nuts!

i work in a non-M preschool but i can tell you that not only could i never send a kid to the bathroom for a time-out but that time-outs are not allowed at all.
the only time i've used the bathroom as a tool is when kids are using "potty language." then i will tell them if they want to talk that way they can but it has to be in the bathroom and then they can talk like that all they want. i've never had a kid take me up on it!

as for the accident...insane!!!! what's wrong with taking off the clothes and bagging them and using some wipes to clean the child up? i work with 2-3 year olds and there are times that i clean up a poop accident almost daily. it's a hassle and not the most pleasant but not a huge deal. heck, i've even cleaned up after 4-5 year olds.

[lisavark]

Ok, I totally agree with what everyone has said about the HUGE, GLARING issues in your post--the bathroom as punishment?!? Not changing a child after an accident?!?--but I'm also really puzzled by some of the smaller issues. What is this with the bell ringing, for example? I mean, I can see using bells as a time indicator (DD's Montessori school doesn't have any bells at all), but I can't understand it being a problem if your DS is so absorbed in an activity that he doesn't want to stop. I thought the whole purpose of the Montessori classroom was to create activities that children can become absorbed in like that. My DD is in a toddler class at a Montessori school (switching to primary right now, actually ), and she was mostly potty learned before she started (we did EC), but when she started having accidents at school, the teacher told me they weren't worried about it at all because the reason she was having accidents was because she was so absorbed in what she was doing and didn't want to stop. She said their whole goal was for children to be absorbed in the materials like that, so they actually saw DD's accidents as kind of a good thing, because it meant DD was so absorbed.

And taking away activities as punishment? That's just...crazy. I mean, if your DS is interested in an activity (I'm assuming he would want to do it, otherwise taking it away wouldn't be a punishment), then not allowing him to use that activity would be totally contrary to Montessori philosophy, wouldn't it? Because the whole point is to give the child access to materials that match what he's ready to do/learn/teach himself...so limiting access to things he's interested in is just...NOT Montessori, for sure. Unless my understanding of Montessori is just totally off.

[ChristyMarie]

A deposit plus you had to pre-pay tuition? That alone sends up a red flag for me.

I would pull him and find another place they'll be more comfortable. That just all sounds very odd to me. We had 2 students leave out of my son's class this year - they just were not a good fit for the Montessori approach. But from what I've heard (from the one mom) the school worked with them for several months before they were removed by the parents because it just wasn't working for the kids. There were no issues with costs or anything. I had a month where DS changed schedules in the middle and tuition that month was pro-rated automatically.

The bathroom thing - sounds odd as well. Ours does use the bathroom during quiet time but the way the school is set up, the bathroom is huge, open and in between the two classrooms. If you cannot be quiet during quiet time you can stand in the bathroom until you are ready to participate so you are not disturbing other students. But it is large enough that it is just another room and open to the main room.

Ours also has a clean up bell and clean up song but I believe that is the only time a bell is used.

[Michelle Renee]

Is the school a montessori school or a school where someone in the building has had montessori training and they call it that.

You have to becareful - we live in SE michigan and only one of the schools in my area is actually a true montessori where more than just the director is certified.

[3belles]

You should talk to the director/head of school. Time outs are not typical in Montessori, nor are being placed in a bathroom. That is not respectful to the child. Find out what their affiliations are, and how their teachers are/are not trained. It may not be so authentic. Don't be afraid to let that mama lion come out and ask some serious questions here. You are a customer and a mother, they should be happy to talk.