Success Stories from Moms Who Chose Not to "Fix" Cavities in Baby Teeth

[Holistic]

Hello-
I, like so many of you moms out there, have a toddler with tooth decay on his top 4 front teeth and am struggling with making a decision about how to deal with it. I have scoured the forums for moms who took a "wait and see" approach, and can't seem to find any success stories. So I'm writing to ask- if you are a mom who was faced with ECC and didn't have them fixed (i.e. in the hospital under GA, or strapped to a board in the dentist's office) will you please post how your child's teeth are doing now? Have they fallen out, and were the permanent ones affected? Is there any one thing you did that you feel really helped to save the teeth? Could you also list how bad the decay was and at what age you discovered it? THANK YOU.
I have never been more stressed out about anything in my life, and I want to do what's best for my child. FYI- he is 22 months, and since 14 months has had decay on his top 4 teeth. 2 of them have chipped significantly, and the other 2 have brown spots on the sides.
I'm doing cell salts, xylitol, butter oil, high vitamin cod liver oil, no sugar, juice etc, but I could be missing something.
I just want/need to hear at least ONE success story to put my mind at ease!

[ejg123]

I was looking for something similar and I found this thread.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1095289

which was a helpful start.

So it seems like it can be, for some people, addressed. My concern is that it seems to involve, at least somewhat, a toddler that wills sit still, let you put things in his or her mouth. Currently, our 16 month old with two cavity looking things on his front teeth, will BARELY let me see his teeth, much less do anything to them without extreme drama. I need to search the threads more on this, but I just hate the idea of holding him down while he screams every day while trying to brush teeth. I don't know if he would get used to it. I feel like I would be subjecting him to trauma. Ditto with ANY dental procedures. He just reacts so strongly to any imposition of my will (or a dentists will) on him.

[zinemama]

I did have my toddler's cavities filled, so I can't address your question. But I'm curious about why your only perceived options seem to be having it done in a hospital under GA or "strapped to a board" in the dental office. I've never heard of either of those scenarios for filling toddler cavities. It certainly didn't go down that way with my son.

[Holistic]

I came across this great interview with Dr. Ellie Phillips and had to share:

http://integrativemom.com/prevention/toddler-teeth-2/

I've signed up for email updates so I can be informed when they post the rest of it!  Amazing info!!!

[SAmama]

Our 4 year old dd has terrible allergies and had tooth decay basically since she got teeth. We gave bone broth and limited sugar (as in she didn't hardly get any). We were already off gluten, but didn't eat a whole lot of other grains. We did give some supplements, but it wasn't always easy to get them (we were in Asia at the time) or get them into her. She chipped two teeth that then became infected and had to be extracted. The dentist said she needed a lot of work, but it needed to be done under g.a. We went to see a biological dentist in the nearest city and she recommended the same. G.a. and 8 fillings needing to be filled. One tooth was decayed into the pulp, according to her. We could not even almost afford it. So, we just left it. We were back in South Africa at that point, so we bought supplements (actually for her eczema and allergies) and found goats' milk and butter, which she can now tolerate (cow dairy is still out). We did eat even less grains, mostly because they are not easy to find here (alternatives to gluten grains). She did still eat loads of fruit and starchy veggies. Still not much sugar, but more than before, what with being with grandparents that always feel sorry for her. We went back to this dentist last week. We asked her to help us figure out alternatives to g.a. She agreed to help us figure it out, looked at dd's teeth, looked again at all the cavities and told us they were all remineralised. She was very impressed. She has actually seen that happen with toothpastes, like Tooth Mousse, which she didn't want to give to dd because of allergies. I don't think she has ever seen it with diet. It is not a big thing here in SA. So, we are very, very impressed. The supps she took was Zinc, Magnesium and some B vitamins, cod liver oil. Also of course calc.phos. Oh and she did brush with a natural kiddies tooth paste with calc fluor in it. I am sure that helped.

Hope that is encouraging. My dd had terrible absorption in the past and with her limited diet I thought we had no hope. I am so very relieved that this finally worked.

[Panserbjorne]

I guess we qualify.  I didn't have the dentist address my kids teeth.  I used nutrition, cell salts and clay with a spray of colloidal silver on the toothbrush.  The cavities stopped, and sealed over.  It was black, but now you can barely see it as the enamel hardened over it.  Same with mine.

It was not a full time job.  I administered cell salts throughout the course of the day, more often than not I just dropped them in the water.  I brushed twice a day (some days just once...not a fan of overbrushing) and when I did I sprinkled clay and sprayed the silver.  Honestly I don't know that the silver really did anything, but I did use it.

In terms of nutrition, I just focused on whole foods, stayed away from grains and that was pretty much it.  Other than avoiding allergens that it.

[Tashakittie]

This is really awesome. I have been stressed and anxious about my ds's tooth situation for a while now. After a horrific dental experience, and being told that he would a multitude of fillings, extractions, and crowns I wondered how truthful, or trustworthy this dentist was. Seriously, 16 of his teeth were decayed that bad? It didn't seem to make sense to me. My parents, who come from a less industrialized nation, thought it was entirely nonsense- b/c the teeth are baby teeth. It seemed to make more sense to fix things from the inside. Panserbjorne: Can you please tell me about the clay you used? What kind, and how did you do this? Does the clay help the body create more enamel? And what are cell salts?

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

I guess we qualify.  I didn't have the dentist address my kids teeth.  I used nutrition, cell salts and clay with a spray of colloidal silver on the toothbrush.  The cavities stopped, and sealed over.  It was black, but now you can barely see it as the enamel hardened over it.  Same with mine.

It was not a full time job.  I administered cell salts throughout the course of the day, more often than not I just dropped them in the water.  I brushed twice a day (some days just once...not a fan of overbrushing) and when I did I sprinkled clay and sprayed the silver.  Honestly I don't know that the silver really did anything, but I did use it.

In terms of nutrition, I just focused on whole foods, stayed away from grains and that was pretty much it.  Other than avoiding allergens that it.

[gabbyraja]

PB, you used pascalite clay, right? http://www.pascalite.com/Prod.htm Just the regular powder, or the dental powder?

[Koalamom]

My dd devolped cavities on her canines.  The one wwnt deep and the other was more spread out on the tooth.  I gave her calc phos cell salt and applied pascalite clay (just the regular powder) after brushing with it.  The cavities sealed over and no further decay happened.  I recently got the one filled as it was very deep and even though it sealed over it always got food stuck in it and dd has been full about letting me brush and I thought that it was best filled but she didn't even have to get numbed.  The dentist was very impressed with the healing.  And the crazy thing is I didn't even give her that much calc, as I didn't know at the time that it had to be given often.  Just once per day did it!

[edwardsmom]

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

I guess we qualify.  I didn't have the dentist address my kids teeth.  I used nutrition, cell salts and clay with a spray of colloidal silver on the toothbrush.  The cavities stopped, and sealed over.  It was black, but now you can barely see it as the enamel hardened over it.  Same with mine.

It was not a full time job.  I administered cell salts throughout the course of the day, more often than not I just dropped them in the water.  I brushed twice a day (some days just once...not a fan of overbrushing) and when I did I sprinkled clay and sprayed the silver.  Honestly I don't know that the silver really did anything, but I did use it.

In terms of nutrition, I just focused on whole foods, stayed away from grains and that was pretty much it.  Other than avoiding allergens that it.

Can you give me an idea of how long this it took to heal the cavities?  I just found 2 cavities on ds's top back molars, and want to try this.  But I'm feeling uncertain, so if I had some kind of time frame, maybe I could hold off on going to the dentist.  

Thanks

[Panserbjorne]

I'd say I saw a difference in about 2 months, but it took more like 6 months to totally seal over.

[Isla's Mommy]

My 14-month old baby's teeth started developing brown spots last Wednesday. By Monday, all 8 of her exposed teeth showed significant decay and one them has chipped quite a bit, with mostly dentin visible now. We've been to 2 dentists so far, both say we need to crown all 8 teeth under gen. anesthesia.  I am hoping to curb the damage as quickly as possible and somehow avoid the surgery though I am not very hopeful and I have a world of pressure on me from both sides of the family to go through with it.  Of course, I want to do what is best for my child, but I am sooo nervous that if I say no to surgery her teeth will rot, she'll get an infection and they'll all have to be pulled and/or her permanent teeth will be damaged.

I have always nursed her to sleep and nursed throughout the night and at naptime.  I am sure this is the main reason for decay.  Trying to come up with a plan to night wean, reducing night nursings as much as I can without forcing too much distress on my baby.  What I've done so far:  I just ordered Ramiel Nagel's Cure Tooth Decay, started using fluoridated toothpaste and floss as well as Spry xylitol toothpaste and xylitol mouth spray, started baby DHA cod liver oil, a liquid multi-vitamin that includes zinc and magnesium.  I am going to buy the ingredients for bone broth tomorrow (should I buy chicken or beef bones?).

My questions:

What does Calc. Phos. do and how often do I administer it? I bought the Hyland's brand (Calcarea Phosphorica 30X), is this right? I am assuming these little white tablets are what others refer to as 'cell salts'.

Why are others avoiding grains?? My baby eats grains everyday (steel cut oats for breakfast, brown rice almost every day, quinoa, millet, barley and other wheat products).

Is colloidal silver spray better than xylitol?

What does the pascalite clay do? I'm assuming it is used in lieu of toothpaste.  Does it re-calcify or re-mineralize the teeth? How often should I use it? Is it safe if swallowed - no constipation?

I would really appreciate some advice! We are headed to yet another dentist tomorrow and again next Tuesday.  After that we are making the big decision on which dentist to use for the surgery unless I can convince my husband and myself to try 'natural' remedies.

Thank you :)

[umsami]

I don't know the extent of your child's decay, but when I went into the dentist with DD who is 3, the dentist (pediatric dentist) told us that she had some area of concern and prescribed a topical flouride gel that we apply at night.  It's suppose to help remineralization.

DS1 did have cavities, but they were filled using a laser.  Totally painless (his report).  No anesthetic either.  I suggest you seek out a pediatric dentist who uses a laser.

[umsami]

Originally Posted by Isla's Mommy 

My 14-month old baby's teeth started developing brown spots last Wednesday. By Monday, all 8 of her exposed teeth showed significant decay and one them has chipped quite a bit, with mostly dentin visible now. We've been to 2 dentists so far, both say we need to crown all 8 teeth under gen. anesthesia.  I am hoping to curb the damage as quickly as possible and somehow avoid the surgery though I am not very hopeful and I have a world of pressure on me from both sides of the family to go through with it.  Of course, I want to do what is best for my child, but I am sooo nervous that if I say no to surgery her teeth will rot, she'll get an infection and they'll all have to be pulled and/or her permanent teeth will be damaged.

I have always nursed her to sleep and nursed throughout the night and at naptime.  I am sure this is the main reason for decay.  Trying to come up with a plan to night wean, reducing night nursings as much as I can without forcing too much distress on my baby.  What I've done so far:  I just ordered Ramiel Nagel's Cure Tooth Decay, started using fluoridated toothpaste and floss as well as Spry xylitol toothpaste and xylitol mouth spray, started baby DHA cod liver oil, a liquid multi-vitamin that includes zinc and magnesium.  I am going to buy the ingredients for bone broth tomorrow (should I buy chicken or beef bones?).

My questions:

What does Calc. Phos. do and how often do I administer it? I bought the Hyland's brand (Calcarea Phosphorica 30X), is this right? I am assuming these little white tablets are what others refer to as 'cell salts'.

Why are others avoiding grains?? My baby eats grains everyday (steel cut oats for breakfast, brown rice almost every day, quinoa, millet, barley and other wheat products).

Is colloidal silver spray better than xylitol?

What does the pascalite clay do? I'm assuming it is used in lieu of toothpaste.  Does it re-calcify or re-mineralize the teeth? How often should I use it? Is it safe if swallowed - no constipation?

I would really appreciate some advice! We are headed to yet another dentist tomorrow and again next Tuesday.  After that we are making the big decision on which dentist to use for the surgery unless I can convince my husband and myself to try 'natural' remedies.

Thank you :)

Honestly, Mama, if you are looking at crowns on 8 teeth--it sounds like you have some serious decay.  I would still look into natural remedies, but more of a prevention going forward.

Please seek out a pediatric dentist, if you haven't already.  Also ask them about testing you for the bacteria (streptococcus mutansin) your mouth that causes caries (cavities)...and a treatment plan you can undergo.  From what I remember, it's usually an oral rinse.. but there may be other things involved.

[gabbyraja]

I highly recommend the book Cure Tooth Decay by Ramiel Nagel. Got it through my library. The most important thing he says is that caries are NOT caused by bacteria eating sugar, or bm! He backs it up with lots of info, including a common sense illustration: 2 bowls on the counter for a few days, one filled w flour and sugar, one with fish. Which one smells bad in a few days, and which one looks exactly the same. Sugar itself in ANTIBACTERIAL! And that bm is antibacterial and works better than almost anything at protecting against the strains of bacteria blamed for cavities. As long as the mouth is awash in bm, there should be no bacterial overgrowth.

He not only talks about WAP, like most people on MDC, but also Melvin Page, who found that sugar DID have a lot to do w/cavities, but not in the mouth, in the bloodstream. He found that, in addition to proper nutrition (like WAP), you have to get it into the tooth and THROUGH it to the right spots in order to replace the decaying cells (as your teeth naturally decay continuously like any other cell in your body).  To get the nutrients from your blood through the tooth you needed to maintain a certain balance of calcium to phosphorus in the blood. When the balance was off, even if you had enough nutrients to replace cells you would pull fluids from inside the tooth (and bones, etc), and even the mouth, into your bloodstream instead, in order to restore the balance.  Blood sugar spikes, and for 6-8 hours after, mess up the balance.

He also advises against dental treatment as long as you're willing to do the work (nutrition changes) and there is no pain, ESPECIALLY avoiding drilling small cavities as once they fill it's not really possibly to fully heal the tooth. If there is no pain, it's purely cosmetic. This really rang true with me and helped me make peace with my desire to avoid them extracting and crowning my 2 year old under GA.

Very fascinating stuff. Highly recommend the book.

[LisaGreene]

I agree with gabbyraja. Tooth decay is a nutrition issue. My health practitioner says that teeth are our nutritional window. 

I was told that my son needed 6 cavities filled, a root canal, and seals on his back teeth for over $2k. Instead, I decided to go the natural route. We use Dr. Collins restore toothpaste. It is non-fluoride and remineralizes the teeth. We changed his diet-eliminating gluten grains and cutting WAY back on sugars of all kinds. We have always had a natural, mostly organic diet otherwise. Before, you could see the dark pit in one tooth and now it is practically gone. The tooth will heal if you get the nutrition part worked out. 

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by LisaGreene 

I agree with gabbyraja. Tooth decay is a nutrition issue. My health practitioner says that teeth are our nutritional window. 

I was told that my son needed 6 cavities filled, a root canal, and seals on his back teeth for over $2k. Instead, I decided to go the natural route. We use Dr. Collins restore toothpaste. It is non-fluoride and remineralizes the teeth. We changed his diet-eliminating gluten grains and cutting WAY back on sugars of all kinds. We have always had a natural, mostly organic diet otherwise. Before, you could see the dark pit in one tooth and now it is practically gone. The tooth will heal if you get the nutrition part worked out. 

I don't think anyone would disagree that it's in part a nutrition issue.  the problem is that's a pretty broad umbrella and tends to be multifactorial.  there are many reasons why someone might not be accessing certain nutrients, or have a higher that average requirement.
 

[SunnieP]

I was in a similar situation  My son started complaining of a toothache and thinking (he's 5) I was neglecting him i took him to the only dentist who answered their phone on a friday during a snowstorm.  What a mistake.  She drilled and crowned it roughly after a brutal scene giving the local.  I watched her jam that crown down so hard and watched his little gum puff out.  He cried for the rest of the night  Cut to two days later it abcesses the origional dentist sends me to the "greatest" ped surgery center thinking hed need sedated/extracted.  They sell me $3500 worth of sedated work to happen the following moth and antibiotics to help the infection.  So in another 2 days while new super-surgeon is away on a conference it festers and my boy is back at origional dentist getting it pulled on my dh's lap both getting blood splattered.  So now I have a dilemma.  What to do about the other molar that has an obvious brown spot and the dentist said wasz in worse shape that the one that got pulled?  I didn't trust what I thought was a sales job for the iv surgery, but I didn't want tooth infections lowering his resistance.  So I got an appt for the following moth for a ped dentist who did not require we be separated for all procedures (as did the supercenter), and  using what I know about nutrition, teeth being outgrowths from  healthy body etc. I got us a supply of raw goats milk (nubian-20$/week) and forced him to drink it daily, multiple times.  Stopped all of the sugar bribes I was suddenly aware of, and faithful brushing and can see where there is fresh white tooth grown back where there was a brown hole.  This took about a month.  I am now considering cancelling the 3rd appt with the 3rd dentist instead going to this holistic guy I found  from a link in his forum, At least he might not try to undo what I've done and may support my instincts.   So this is a success story for sure-how much of one I'll know at whichever appt he goes to.  But I am so disappointed in myself and dh in our haste I'm sure we cost him his tooth and when he smiles I am reminded and regretful. 

[SleeplessMommy]

The original poster was from July .... but I will give my 2-cents-worth for SunnieP

I know it is tough to have cavities in a kid's mouth. We have been there and done that. We improved our kid's brushing habits (see below) and were able to stop growing new cavities. DS1 got a stainless steel crown on one baby molar, fluoride varnish several times, and had a watch-and-wait cavity on a front incisor baby tooth. Dentist #1 had offered general anesthesia for the dental work, we got dentist #2 to do it with nitrous oxide + local, a much safer and lower cost way to go. DS1 has recently lost that front incisor (at age 7, 5 years after we first noticed the problem). Fluoride does not "reverse" tooth decay but it was able to strengthen the remaining tooth material and keep it in place until it was shed.

What worked for us: (as supported by evidence based medicine)

* fluoride toothpaste once DS1 learned to spit. (we are also on city water)

* cleanings every 6 months

* fluoride varnish every 6 months, as suggested by dentist

* ultrasonic toothbrush for improved cleaning (also more fun for the kid).

* xylitol gum or mints - needs to be 100% xylitol sweetened - we used Spry and Xylimax brands.

* We reduced the amount of "sticky" foods like raisins, DS loves raisins but they are pretty hard to brush off.

* No beverages after brushing teeth at night

* Sealants on molars.

I know it is a long list, but we wanted to do everything possible to keep his teeth healthy and make sure the adult teeth stay cavity free. The 6-month dentist appointments are VERY cost effective compared to stainless steel crowns, GA, extractions and root canal procedures.

If you have difficulty getting your child to brush, start with the "training toothpaste" and take them shopping for a new electric toothbrush. Make it fun.

[SunnieP]

I zm still officially wavering between new-holistic dental practice thats 50 min away but uses no mercury and offers flouride free treatments and products, and the reg ped surgeon visit scheduled for next wednesday.  Both will use gas if necessary and hes so traumatized he may need it.  Im going to call them both on monday to try to tip the scales for me to decide. Maybe one of them uses a lazer.....i dont know,   Thanks for replying to my post.  DH isnt sure cavities can heal and wants me to keep the ped appt for wed and forget about the holistic practice.  I just liked the lady i talked to there much better even though we'll have to pay alot out of pocket.  They also offer some evening hours too and I like the fact they offer merc-free stuff.  But i'm wondering if im doing more harm than good,