Advice needed... DP and his [not] son

[JordanKX]

I feel like a broken record, detailing history here... but it's gotta happen.

DP thought it was his child. Mom told him so (only by process of elimination). So, he was Dad. Living separate dad, two days a week, but Dad. Until DSS was 1.5 and for whatever reasons, he took a paternity test... not his child. He didn't care.. it was still his son. Still is.

Mom has since remarried, had another child with her husband, and I'd imagine she's made married step-father the legal guardian. I think this only because the last time DP asked her to change the birth certificate, she kinda scoffed and said... I'm actually working on that with step-dad, getting guardianship for step-dad. Step-Dad has him on his insurance.

And now DSS is calling step-Dad... Dad. And calls DP by his first name. Probably, yes, because Mom calls him by his first name. I won't say that she's encouraging that, I don't live in their house. But...

So, in MY world, DP has a 4yr old that is split between two homes - at our house 2 days a week. Calls DP by his first name. DP is a very weak man and has never been able to stand up to DSS's mom, for fear that "she'd take him away", so 4yrs of walking on eggshells around her (for time with DSS, Will not discuss anything remotely about his development or daycare or speech or anything).
BUT he's recently upsetting DSS.... "I am not [name], I am DAD".
Hey, that's confusing to the boy. And it upsets everyone when DP tries too hard.

I WANT to have a conversation with DP about... maybe it's OK that he calls you by your first name. Maybe it's not so wrong to be "uncle [name]", a man that's loved him and cared for him. I think maybe DP needs to start understanding that at some point... step-Dad is going to become "DAD" for real, on paper and in DSS's life. OF COURSE DP is still the man who's raised him 1/2 time up til this point. But DSS is 4yrs old! He just knows who's in his life, attaches terms. He doesn't KNOW what's going on.

And honestly, to call DP "Dad" isn't really the truth anyway. He's not his father.

The Bio-father has yet to be notified, probably never will be.

I can't bring myself to conversation, Yet. Because it just breaks my heart watching HIS heart break. But at the same time, DSS is 4years old. I am an onlooking step-parent with my own issues, so I want to make sure I'm 100% rational in this thought.

But... it is not his son. And I'm SURE, I just am, knowing his mother, that she's doing the legal side of things to make step-dad, DAD, on paper. It's what I would do... I don't fault her for making step-dad guardian.

Would you broach the subject with him, my DP who's getting somewhat lost in the shuffle? Or just let things unfold on their own? God, it's so painful. I do hate it for him... hate it for them both. DSS is just an innocent bystander in his mom's... stuff. That he'll potentially never know his REAL father... does that even matter?

[MeepyCat]

This is a pretty confusing situation. I'm trying to take it one point at a time, but I may be getting tangled up.

It sounds like your DP has asked to be taken off DSS's birth certificate. In my state, this would be a termination of parental rights. Neither parent can be removed from the birth certificate without some other name being filled in - so yeah, asking to be taken off the birth cert does leave DSS's mom in the position of getting someone (probably her current partner) ON to the BC, and designating parental rights and responsibilities to that person. This whole process doesn't really jive with your statement that DSS is still your DP's son. I think it would be a good idea of you and DP talked to a lawyer about what you want, what you are trying to do, and what the implications of these actions are, legally.

In this situation, were I your DSS's mom, I would absolutely encourage DSS to call my partner Dad. And not to use that name for the guy who has said he wants to terminate the parental relationship.

That said, however, I don't think it's that confusing to a child to refer to two people as Dad. My kid has two Grandmas, that's not confusing. And he refers to one of his aunts as his Mommy <name>. He knows that some of his friends at daycare have two dads, and others have two moms. He's fine with all that.

He also, however, has recently been experimenting with calling adults by their first names. I don't think it's wise to read too much into this - he hears us call each other by name, he tries it himself. When he does, he gets a raised eyebrow and a simple correction, and that's that. If DSS has been calling your DP "Dad" all this time, it will probably be less confusing to him to be corrected when he calls DP by his first name than it will be to make the transition to referring to his legal father "Uncle John."

Finally, I would encourage you to recognize that the legal and biological facts may not be the same as the emotional facts. Sometimes they will affect each other (which is why I think it is potentially highly problematic for your DP to be taken off the BC), but not always. If DP is emotionally dad, then the biological facts aren't so relevant.

[JordanKX]

Meepy... I see the confusion in my first post.

No, DP is asking to be PUT ON the BC. At moment, father is "unknown". Because mom didn't know until 5 days after he was born, and then by process of elimination she decided DP must be dad. But the BC remains unknown. DP would like that to be changed -- even though he knows he is not the biological father (and he knows it's truly not legal to falsify at this point - 4yrs later).

It is his belief that if he were on the BC, he'd be deemed 'some' rights to DSS, even if step-dad were labeled Legal Guardian. Which I still think is incorrect... once there is a guardian, the BC parent is nulled... right? I mean, she's not asking Step-dad to "adopt"... without a person on the BC, there's really no one to "adopt" from... you simply become Guardian.

At this point, what his mom is doing (if anything) is just in question. That she mentioned a year ago about making step-Dad legal guardian... I assume she's already done this. Honestly, I think she should have. But again, DP is not in a position (or personality) to ask. He's just too scared of losing any time with DSS so he remains silent (silently frustrated).

I hear you on the "names"... the past few weeks when DSS has called him by name, he does it with pride, like he's learned something. Ooh, I know your name.. you Must be that person! DP takes it personally (I'd bet its hard not to), and wants to change that. I like what you said tho... maybe it's not so immediate that it's about clarifying things... just let DSS have some fun with names. He'll figure out in the long run, what he wants to call people.

[Ione]

I think your DP really needs to talk to a lawyer about the issues to get a clear understanding of where he stands.

Was he married to the boy's mother at the time of birth? (In some states, that would make him the legal father and he would have the right to pursue court orders for visitation... regardless of what the BC says.)

However, if he is not already the legal father (in the eyes of the law), I sincerely doubt that he has any hope of being added to the BC, unless he can convince the mother to lie in court and say he is the father despite the results of the paternity test. Because if he is not already the legal father and tries to establish paternity in court over the mother's objections, a paternity test will be ordered and the results will put an end to that.

But then, some states have laws that allow 3rd parties to pursue visitation rights if they meet certain criteria and have an established relationship with the kids.

He really needs to see a lawyer and go over all the details to know where he stands and what is possible, given the laws where you are.

It may very well be that he is out of luck and there's nothing he can do. But there may be something. Only an expert lawyer could say.

[Marsupialmom]

He might not be biodad, but he fell in love and that makes him a dad in this situation.

Is he paying child support? Has she gotten welfare with the assumption he is dad? If so your dh might have some legal standing. If not she is very manipulative to keep your partner around.

Please remember he fell in love with that child with the understanding he was the parent. That is no different than a love a bioparent or adoptive parent has.

[GoBecGo]

Re: the name thing (because it's something that came up recently with us):

DD is XP's bio-child. She is DH's step-child. DH and i, for all i say "DH" aren't married and probably won't be, because we are ambivalent about marriage, not each other! XP is on DD's birth certificate, because he's her father, but we were never married and never filed the parental rights paperwork (he's had basically daily access to her since her birth, so it never came up). She was born one month before being on the certificate would automatically assign him those rights.

Up until recently DD called her bio-dad "dada" and her step dad by his first name. Then we had DD2. Now she calls XP "dada" OR his first name, and DH "daddy" OR his first name. She calls me "mama" and occasionally by MY first name.

We just let it flow. She's 4 too. Ultimately who we are and what we do is the most important thing, not what she calls us.

Onto the rest....wow. It's a really tough situation. I think if i were you i'd make DP see a lawyer. It sounds like if he wants to maintain contact and access with this child he might need to fight for it. If she's going to make her new partner the guardian and put him on the BC then your DP will surely have basically no rights? What sort of role does your DP want? My XP is DD's father but to be honest he's more of an uncle or friend in terms of his role - everything like dentist, doctors, school, play groups, etc. etc. is left to me. He basically just plays with her a couple of times a week and does SOME discipline. He loves her to bits and she loves him, but their relationship is one of fun. Does your DP WANT to have parental rights, and make bigger decisions, or does he just want to continue to have access?

[Amanda L]

When I lived in Ohio I dated a man that had been previously married and raised a little girl as "his" when she was not (born before they got married, biological father unknown). When they divorced and this was disclosed in court, he still fought for (and received) visitation rights. So I would suggest looking into the legal process.

The name changing is very normal. As the little girl grew my ex spent years as "Daddy" and then became "Wesley" and then became "Dad" again and then "Daddy Wes" and then . . . You get the picture. My ex was secure in his position no matter what he was being called. I think your partner being aggravated about what he is being called is symbolic to the fact that he is worried about the tenuous situation (legally) he is in than actual concern over a label.

[VocalMinority]

Originally Posted by JordanKX

And honestly, to call DP "Dad" isn't really the truth anyway. He's not his father.

That's crap. He stepped up to the plate when he was told he was the father and he stayed there, loving and responsible, even after he learned about the biology... even after he was given a good excuse to get out from under child support and all the day-to-day hassles and inconveniences of caring for a child that young.

He is Dad.

The mother encouraged him to play that part when she didn't have anyone "better" to play it. Now she wants to re-cast her new man in the role, instead of just letting the new man be the step-dad that he is. She is focusing on what she wants, with no regard for:
* The confusion she's creating for her son. (At 4, he's certainly old enough to have realized your partner was "Dad" before step-Dad came along. Now his earliest concept of what "Dad" means is "some dispensible guy who gets replaced by whatever new man comes into the mother's life". How do you think he'll feel about growing up to BE a Dad?)
* The heartache she's creating for your partner, who stood by her child. Even when you've broken up with someone, you can still have respect for that person's role as your child's other parent - especially when they fill that role voluntarily, after learning there's some other bio-dad! She's being a selfish jerk to him.

Here's where I agree with you: If your partner's not on the B/C and has no legal rights to this child, he will probably have no control over the fact that his son will be encouraged to call this other guy "Dad" - and that the Mom will probably give him less time with the child, going forward.

But don't let your partner hear from YOU that he's "not really the father". You, of all people, should recognize and honor the effort he's made and sympathize with him. But perhaps you can encourage him to separate his frustration with the mother from his reactions to the child. If the boy were 16, your DP'd have every right to say, "Shame on you! I've been a parent to you your whole life and now you're going to call me 'Joe' and this new guy 'Dad'!? Have some respect!" But at 4, this little boy can't be expected to stand up to his mother. Help your DP see that he has always been a good Dad by weathering crap from the mother in order to stay connected to the child - and this is just the latest crap. He can't stop it - and he can't blame it on the kid. But it doesn't need to change his and the child's feelings for each other. Those are real.

But be compassionate. Don't come at him from the standpoint of, "You need to accept that you've never really been Dad. You're weak and when you suddenly try to take a stand it just makes everybody miserable."

[MeepyCat]

Originally Posted by Jeannine

That's crap. He stepped up to the plate when he was told he was the father and he stayed there, loving and responsible, even after he learned about the biology... even after he was given a good excuse to get out from under child support and all the day-to-day hassles and inconveniences of caring for a child that young.

He is Dad.

[violet_]

It really depends on the law and judges where the child lives. I've read of cases where the guy thinks he is the father, learns he is not, and tries to remove himself from the situation, only to be told by a judge that it's in the best interest of the child for "Dad" to remain Dad and pay child support for one that isn't even his. I would be surprised if a court found that the established Dad could be removed involuntarily from the child's life. But it will depend on local law and local judges. You definitely need a lawyer on this one.

Does you DP pay child support, medical, etc.? A lawyer could tell him what his obligations would be if he is found to be a father by the court.

[Smithie]

"DP is a very weak man..."

... then why on earth is he living in your house and sleeping in your bed? Seriously, if you believe that you are dating a person who is fundamentally incapable of the self-assertion necessary to defend himself, his child, his partner, etc., then you are in a situation that is not going to bring you long-term happiness. You cannot trust a weak person to have your back. There is no security, no respite, no peace with a partner who can't hold up his/her end when things get tough.

But if you were speaking from a place of frustration and DON'T believe that your DP is a universally weak individual, just that the biological facts of the matter and a lot of bad precedent put him in a powerless position when dealing with his son's mother - then I agree with Jeannine that you should support him in seeing himself as Dad and in discovering if he has any enforceable parental rights. You shouldn't do the work for him, but he should hear from you that you believe in the validity of his claim to be Dad.

Bottom line - if he doesn't pursue legal rights (and likely even if he does, depending on whether he has paid support in way that will be recognized, etc.) and if he continues his "weak" pattern on behavior in dealing with the mom, then he's going to be shut out and she'd going to install her husband as the legal Dad. I realize that a post on a message board is just a snapshot of how a person is feeling in that moment, but is SOUNDS as though you don't believe that this course of action is contrary to DSS' best interests. It sounds like you'd be doing the same thing if mom's shoes. If that's how you feel, then I'd stay well out of the whole custody/rights aspect. Be supportive of your partner and welcoming to your DSS, but the legal side? His issue. Her issue. You are Switzerland.

[greenemami]

I have definitely heard of cases where, if a man was acting as the father and he and/or the mom KNEW that he was not the bio-father, he would still receive visitation and pay child support because it was in the best interests of the child. So, if that is the role he wants to continue, I think he would have a decent argument for going to court. Why was he not on the birth certificate to begin with? I think he has to make the decision as to what role he wants to play here-if he wants to continue being dad or if he wants to pass that role over to the stepdad. I think he would have to be the one to fight for an "official" role in his son's life or it sounds like the mom might just let him kind of fade away. Good luck!

[JordanKX]

Originally Posted by Smithie

Bottom line - if he doesn't pursue legal rights (and likely even if he does, depending on whether he has paid support in way that will be recognized, etc.) and if he continues his "weak" pattern on behavior in dealing with the mom, then he's going to be shut out and she'd going to install her husband as the legal Dad. I realize that a post on a message board is just a snapshot of how a person is feeling in that moment, but is SOUNDS as though you don't believe that this course of action is contrary to DSS' best interests. It sounds like you'd be doing the same thing if mom's shoes. If that's how you feel, then I'd stay well out of the whole custody/rights aspect. Be supportive of your partner and welcoming to your DSS, but the legal side? His issue. Her issue. You are Switzerland.

OP here. And this hits home.
I am Switzerland. I have no say. I have no rights. I have nothing.... but confusion. And really, it's only me that creates the confusion. If I'd just calm down a bit and just let the two of them do (or not do) what they're going to do, life would be easier. It's an impossible position, but I know where my place is. I do. It's just... difficult.

And yes, I do feel like he's a weak man. It was not something I understood fully until recently. I made excuses for him (to myself). And honestly, I get scared about the realities of their non-relationship when it ties into any potential of US splitting up, and his potential non-existence with me, as co-parent.

Jeanine... Thank you for the kick in the arse. Cause you are right. Absolutely 100% right. IF I am going to maintain in this relationship, I have to stand up for him, believe in him, believe in his relationship with his son. HE IS DAD. This was my stance for so long, way before I got pregnant with DS. And I know it hurts him when I waiver on that stance. I shouldn't waiver. He is dad. period.

But... he falters.
He is human, he is scared. I get that. But to me, I would want him to try more (again, looking at the terrifying reality of US being the ones separated)
He's been carrying around the BC change form in his briefcase for over a year. And he won't confront her about changing it. Whatever happened last year when he asked, scared him. And he won't do it again.

No, he does not provide financially. Other than what we offer in our home when he's here.

He DID step up. I have to add... a health issue just arrived with DSS and he said (to me, not to DSS's mom.. and it's been 4 days and he still hasn't talked to her), BUT he said he'd like to ask what the copay was, and offer to share in the expense.
And I know, ONLY because I keep saying.... you need to help. She's footing the bill for everything. There's a reason she didn't tell you in advance this was happening. There's a reason he's been in recup for days (and been with YOUR parents) and still she hasn't talked to you.
She doesn't SEE you as FATHER.

But he did offer this financial thing without my prompting. Again... 4 days and he still hasn't talked to her.

So....

Greenemami - he wasn't on the BC to begin with because she didn't think he was the father. She didn't know who the father was at the time. So process of elimination, when DSS was 5weeks old, she decided it MUST be DP. A year and a half later, proven he's not. But he'd been acting Dad since day 2... regardless of the paternity at 5 weeks, for the assumed man. Regardless of paternity at 1.5years, that DP did without her knowledge.

[Learning_Mum]

Sounds to me like he is 'weak' because he's worried about losing his son. As far as I can tell (and I admit I'm not well versed in legal matters) it seems that he has no legal rights to the child. It would be very easy for his ex to tell him he wasn't allowed to see his son anymore without any problem and there would probably be nothing he could do about it. He loves his son whether he is his bio child or not and is probably scared of rocking the boat and losing him.

I am very tired, so I hope I have understood everything in your post correctly and if I haven't, just pay me no attention