WWYD? Use some retirement to pay for school?

[Sharon, RN]

Ok, ladies and gents, I need opinions. (A little long, sorry!)

I am not working right now. I used to be an ICU nurse, and stopped working when I was about 6 months pregnant. I had been having hearing issues, along with some chronic health problems, but was able to use a hearing aid in my right ear that really helped.

Unfortunately, I have since loss most of my hearing in both ears. It will not get better. I will have surgery on the left, and then maybe I can use a hearing aid over there. We don't know yet. The hearing in my right ear is not correctable with a hearing aid. I will eventually need a cochlear implant, at least on the right, or I will be deaf on the right. We don't know what's going to happen on the left.

So, obviously, not being able to hear is a huge problem for a bedside nurse. While there are many types of nursing jobs, I only have an associates degree, and most jobs away from the bedside require at least a bachelors, and others a masters degree. There are several RN to BSN programs in my area, and all are reasonably priced.

My dh, who is also an ICU nurse, is working on his bachelors now. He keeps encouraging me to go back to school, but I don't think we can swing paying for both our tuitions and all of our household expenses with only his salary. (We really want to avoid taking student loans.) My dh wants to go to CRNA school, and he will not be able to work for at least a year, so I will need to have a job. So, we have a few options:

1) My dh could stop going to school, and I could start and finish, and then he could resume. (I'm not thrilled with this idea, because since he's the only 1 working right now, it seems like a good idea to put him in a position to maximize his salary.)

2) I could wait until my dh is done his bachelors, and then I could go to school. He would wait to start grad school until I was done and was working. (This would be a couple of years, after the 2 years it will take him to finish his BSN.)

3) I have some money in the state retirement fund. I want to take it out and roll it over into another account, because I'm nervous about the state "borrowing" from the fund. If I cashed it out, I would have about $15K. If I left it in, I would have about $30K in there right now (and more at retirement, obviously, well hopefully!). I could take some of that $ out now to pay my tuition. (I like this option the best, because it means I could easily afford school, right now, and could do it now while I'm at home, and my increased income from my BSN and possibly MSN would make it very easy to replenish these funds. This would also mean that my dh wouldn't have to take time off of school before starting CRNA school because I would be able to get a job right away. This option seems to increase the earning potential for both of us simultaneously.)

My dh is against taking money out of retirement, and thinks he can basically work like a mad man to pay for everything. I could see his point if there was major bank in there and I wanted to take it all out, but I don't consider this a huge amount when talking about retirement, and I feel the benefit of getting an advanced degree in my field outweighs the trouble of having to pay it back. Right now, I'm basically unemployable in my field, even though I'm an RN with ICU experience (which is pretty desirable experience!), because I only have an associates and I cannot work at the bedside anymore because of my disability.

Is there something I'm not seeing here? Is dh right? Another option? I'm happy to take any suggestions! TIA!

[happysmileylady]

Scholarships and grants.

First, don't forget to fill out the FASFA as soon you know you are going. That will tell you if you qualify for a pell grant or other federal aid.

Second, having a disability will help you get a LOT of other scholarships and grants. Do a lot of searches, there are scholarships and grants out there for all sorts of stuff-you can find grants for those in nursing (are you wanting to continue that tract?) for women, for those with disabilities, for those of particular heritages, for moms, all sorts of stuff. Some might need you do something like fill out essays, some might just be fill out name and addy, some might be projects, some might be photos or videos there are lots of different types.

Third, have your DH check with his work about tuition assistance, if he hasn't already. If they have it and you aren't taking advantage of it, it's time to start. If he's not got it, perhaps he can find a new job that offers it. If he can get his work to pay for his school, than the money you are using to pay for his school can be used to pay for yours.

[Sharon, RN]

Originally Posted by happysmileylady

Scholarships and grants.

First, don't forget to fill out the FASFA as soon you know you are going. That will tell you if you qualify for a pell grant or other federal aid.

Second, having a disability will help you get a LOT of other scholarships and grants. Do a lot of searches, there are scholarships and grants out there for all sorts of stuff-you can find grants for those in nursing (are you wanting to continue that tract?) for women, for those with disabilities, for those of particular heritages, for moms, all sorts of stuff. Some might need you do something like fill out essays, some might just be fill out name and addy, some might be projects, some might be photos or videos there are lots of different types.

Third, have your DH check with his work about tuition assistance, if he hasn't already. If they have it and you aren't taking advantage of it, it's time to start. If he's not got it, perhaps he can find a new job that offers it. If he can get his work to pay for his school, than the money you are using to pay for his school can be used to pay for yours.

Thanks for the reply, Happy.

We are going to be filling out FAFSA's for both of us- 2 students, yay!, should reduce our EFC, and we have 2 children.

I will be looking into scholarships, but I just want to plan for the scenario where I don't get anything. I will continue with my nursing education. I actually loved my job! I miss it!

My dh work does not do tuition reimbursement until he's been there for X number of years- I can't remember what it was. He didn't want to wait for his bachelors, but will qualify by the time he enters his grad program, so that will help. He does not want to change jobs- even in nursing, the bedside jobs are a little tight, and this hospital offers the best benefits nearby, which is important with my whole chronic health problem thing.

Thanks again!

[VisionaryMom]

My mother started with an LPN program. She was able to find administrative jobs that would accept her with an LPN - albeit for lower pay - and pay for her to complete a BSN. Perhaps there are some possibilities out there that aren't well advertised. My mom went through the hospital where she'd worked and explained that she just couldn't physically continue to work the ER, though she really loved it, and they were able to work something out. I don't know if that would be possible for you, but maybe it's something to look into.

[mnnice]

Originally Posted by Sharon, RN

3) I have some money in the state retirement fund. I want to take it out and roll it over into another account, because I'm nervous about the state "borrowing" from the fund. If I cashed it out, I would have about $15K. If I left it in, I would have about $30K in there right now (and more at retirement, obviously, well hopefully!). I could take some of that $ out now to pay my tuition. (I like this option the best, because it means I could easily afford school, right now, and could do it now while I'm at home, and my increased income from my BSN and possibly MSN would make it very easy to replenish these funds. This would also mean that my dh wouldn't have to take time off of school before starting CRNA school because I would be able to get a job right away. This option seems to increase the earning potential for both of us simultaneously.)

I know state pensions are underfunded, but I suspect your math is wrong on the retirement cash out. Usually if you cash out a state pension you only get the employee contributions into the plan back and you totally lose the employer contributions. So after giving up that half and paying taxes and the 10% penality on the remainder it would be more like $7500. Not worth it to me.

[SeekingJoy]

Sharon, NC's pension/state employee's retirement system is fairly well funded, compared with other state systems. There is a chance they could do some funk things with it, but those are fairly remote. It might seem worth it now, but just looking at the dollars and cents, it would make more sense to take out a loan than cash out your state retirement account.

Do you rent? If not, could you take out a home equity loan to cover tuition? Is childcare part of the problem (and is that something I could help with)? PM me.

[CarrieMF]

It might seem worth it now, but just looking at the dollars and cents, it would make more sense to take out a loan than cash out your state retirement account.

I agree. If you take out the state fund you're throwing away at least $15,000

[Sharon, RN]

Originally Posted by mnnice

I know state pensions are underfunded, but I suspect your math is wrong on the retirement cash out. Usually if you cash out a state pension you only get the employee contributions into the plan back and you totally lose the employer contributions. So after giving up that half and paying taxes and the 10% penality on the remainder it would be more like $7500. Not worth it to me.

I have already checked with the state retirement plan about the cash out- I worked there long enough to be vested. I would prefer to roll the whole thing over to another retirement account and just take out what I would need for school to minimize taxes and fees.

[Sharon, RN]

Originally Posted by SeekingJoy

Sharon, NC's pension/state employee's retirement system is fairly well funded, compared with other state systems. There is a chance they could do some funk things with it, but those are fairly remote. It might seem worth it now, but just looking at the dollars and cents, it would make more sense to take out a loan than cash out your state retirement account.

Do you rent? If not, could you take out a home equity loan to cover tuition? Is childcare part of the problem (and is that something I could help with)? PM me.

s Oh, Seeking, thank you, that's so nice! The majority of the classes are online, although in the beginning I would need to go to school for 1 long day (either Wednesday or Thursday), like 6 hours. We were just going to work it so that dh didn't have to work that night. But I will remember the offer; I'll probably need help at some point!

We do not rent. But, we only bought a couple of years ago, and my FIL is on the deed, but not the mortgage. (Long story.) We do have some equity in the home, but I don't think my dh (or his father) would agree to do that.

I really don't like the idea of using retirement funds for anything but retirement, in general. But I would rather lose some money now, if it meant that I could finally go back to school, get my degree, and have more earning years. $30,000 isn't enough to retire on, obviously, and if I can't go back into nursing I'm not sure what I could do to make money.

You guys are making very valid points. I'm not trying to be like a dog on a bone, I promise! I'm just very agitated (and, frankly depressed) that I trained very hard for a a career that I was very good at and now I can't do it because I'm losing my hearing. I just feel like I need to do something, and soon.

[SeekingJoy]

Is there a reason you are uncomfortable with student loans? DH and I both paid our way through undergrad and my grad school with a crazy quilt of loans, scholarships, grants, work-study, assistantships and frugal living. We graduated undergrad with some debt, but it only took a couple of years to pay off since we did it the most frugal way we could. Your situation really seems like one that makes sense to justify a student loan.

[EFmom]

Taking the money out of your retirement is not something I would do. The tax burden is way too high, and you will need the money for retirement.

If it were me, I'd go for your option 2.

In the meanwhile, I'd keep looking for positions that I could take with the degree I have, even though they might not pay as well, for the couple of years it would take your dh to finish his BS.

[Sharon, RN]

Seeking, we are going to need to take loans when dh goes to CRNA school, as that will be expensive, and while I can work full-time for the bills, we'll need to take loans to cover his school and various child care options.

So I guess we're just trying to save up taking out loans for that.

[mnnice]

Originally Posted by Sharon, RN

I have already checked with the state retirement plan about the cash out- I worked there long enough to be vested. I would prefer to roll the whole thing over to another retirement account and just take out what I would need for school to minimize taxes and fees.

That's a better situation, but I'd still look elsewhere. I'm pretty sure that the vesting part doesn't really make any difference in the two states plans I belong too.

[hopefulfaith]

Originally Posted by VisionaryMom

She was able to find administrative jobs that would accept her with an LPN - albeit for lower pay - and pay for her to complete a BSN.

Sharon, I have a BSN & I had had a position (nurse educator) a few years back which preferred an MSN. I took the position with the understanding that I would pursue the masters while -in- the position. The hospital had a little bit of tuition reimbursement (not a lot), but being able to take the position with room to obtain the degree was really great (although we moved & I had to leave the position ). Perhaps your institution might be able to do something like that? One of our educators had an associate's, and she was pursuing an ADN-to-MSN option while working.

I hope you find something that works. We need good critical care nurses.

[Sharon, RN]

This may not even be an issue anymore.

I want to give big thanks and hugs to everyone who has responded to this thread. s

I had my pre-op screening today, which totally sucked because usually I can bring someone (husband, older DS) to translate for me, but I had to go alone and it was horrible. My hearing is just deteriorating and there's nothing I can do right now. My dh is still pushing for me to go to school this fall for my BSN, but now I'm thinking there may not even be a point, as even talking to someone 1-to-1 was a nightmare today. It was very difficult to understand anything anyone said. I cannot reliably use a phone. I'm pretty decent at lip-reading, but even the best lip readers only have about 75% accuracy, and that's if you know the context of the conversation.

We have absolutely no idea what the outcome of the surgery is going to be, but there is no expectation of my hearing on the left getting any better. Maybe my hearing aid will work over there, probably not. The hearing on my right will never get better (profound hearing loss, 40% word discrimination). But, realistically, my hearing is so bad now that I cannot even function well on a social level. I do not know how I could handle work, especially as a nurse. Any type of nursing job requires interaction with somebody, and I don't want to be the person that screws up something REALLY important because I couldn't hear someone! Oh, and the constant tinnitus is like the cherry on top. Not only is my hearing almost gone, but I get to hear random noise in my head every moment I'm awake.

I know right now I'm really upset about this, but now I'm starting to think I should think about jobs that I can do with a profound hearing loss. I've worked at all kinds of jobs in my life, and I honestly cannot think of 1 I could do without having my hearing. I couldn't work at Starbucks. I couldn't be a cashier.

I'm just at a total loss. I love spending time with my dc, but there is a huge difference between staying home because you want to and staying home because you HAVE to.

I think it was Helen Keller that once said that blindness separates you from things, but deafness separates you from people. Something to that effect. And it's true. I don't want to go out. I can't talk on the phone. I go to LLL meetings but those are becoming more and more difficult to interact with. We have a great group of MDC mommas who meet up every Wednesday, and I've even bugged out on them for the last few weeks because I just cannot stand to have no idea what is going on anymore.

I'm sorry- this turned into a big pity party for myself. I think today, having to do all the pre-op appointment stuff by myself, just made me realize how bad my hearing really is and how impossible my career is going to be now. I just don't feel any hope anymore.

So, thanks again. If anyone can think of jobs for the deaf or very hard of hearing, throw them out at me. I would like to work again sometime. (The unemployment rate among the deaf and HOH is abysmal.)

[SeekingJoy]

Originally Posted by Sharon, RN

I think it was Helen Keller that once said that blindness separates you from things, but deafness separates you from people. Something to that effect. And it's true. I don't want to go out. I can't talk on the phone. I go to LLL meetings but those are becoming more and more difficult to interact with. We have a great group of MDC mommas who meet up every Wednesday, and I've even bugged out on them for the last few weeks because I just cannot stand to have no idea what is going on anymore.

Sharon, we miss you like crazy and just figured you weren't interested in hanging out as much. Can we grab two of the iPhones and IM back and forth during the next playgroup? Bring pen and paper? Just because you can't hear doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to hang out.

This is probably already something you have looked into, but what about adaptive technologies and services from the state?

[bobandjess99]

I think you are being reasonable in looking into what types of careers you can do as a HOH person. I think i would put off ANY decisions about school, money, etc until after the surgery when you have a better idea what the situation will be for you longer term.

[Sharon, RN]

Originally Posted by SeekingJoy

Sharon, we miss you like crazy and just figured you weren't interested in hanging out as much. Can we grab two of the iPhones and IM back and forth during the next playgroup? Bring pen and paper? Just because you can't hear doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to hang out.

This is probably already something you have looked into, but what about adaptive technologies and services from the state?

OMG! No, you guys are great- but not being able to hear is very frustrating and socially isolating. I'll probably see everyone @ B&G's for the move.

Even though I'm not totally deaf (yet), I'm what's usually referred to as "oral-deaf" meaning I have significant hearing loss, but I speak clearly. (FTR, I had some hearing loss as a child and spent years in speech therapy.) This makes it more difficult because then people don't realize or remember about my hearing, since I speak clearly. A receptionist said to me once, "But you talk so good!" Uh, thanks, I think?

I have spoken to the Department for Deaf and HOH before, but my hearing wasn't as bad as it is now. I do think I'll contact them again next week. Thank you for the reminder.

I can find a way to hang out again. I'm just really in a funk right now and I'm not sure what to do. I'm sure we'll figure out ways to adapt.

Bobandjess, I completely agree. (Don't know how to multi-quote, sorry!) Thank you for the encouragement!

[MJ13]

((Hugs)) Sharon.
We have missed you if there is anything we can do to make Wednesdays easier/more fun for you please let us know. I can only imagine how frustrating this must be for you

You gave us great advice online about removing ticks...there has to be something you could do online/in writing while using your degree.

[shelbean91]

Have you thought about being a school nurse? The nurse at my school had previously been an ICU RN and took a huge paycut, but the schedule worked better with her kids. Or if you're going back to school anyway, maybe something in the therapy or special education field helping kids with hearing loss?