What should I do in this situation?

[Maela]

I have an almost 3yo Dd and a 9mo Ds. Ds goes to bed before Dd because he needs to. When it is time for Dd to go to bed she will sometimes look at us, smile, and scream. It's not the normal "kids are loud and can't help it" thing. It's a few intentional screams that she knows will make us upset and almost always wakes up her brother. We have a small house. There is no where to put Ds to sleep where he would not hear the screaming. Tonight was a particularly bad night. Dh just had a vasectomy yesterday and could not help me out much. She woke up Ds multiple times. The only reason she finally fell asleep was from crying because I lost my cool and threw away some lollipops that we had gotten for her the other day. It was awful. Then I was finally able to get ds back to sleep. I've never wanted to spank my child so badly, but fortunately I was able to refrain from that.

What would you have done?? I'm worried about what tomorrow night will bring.

[stik]

My older dd did that a few times too. It's a really hard problem.

My first thought is that she is acting out some feelings about attention and parents and siblings, but of course, I don't know which ones. With my dd, I emphasized that the time between her sister's bedtime and her bedtime was her special time with me. We played a quiet game, read some stories, and sometimes had a little treat that her sis was "too young" for. I also tried telling her that part of her job at bedtime was to help keep the house quiet and sleepy for the baby. We could snuggle for a while (20 minutes or so) at bedtime as long as she was doing her job. But, if she stopped doing her job and woke the baby, we had to stop snuggling so I could get the baby back to sleep. She preferred the 1-on-1 to having me split my attention to help the baby, so she was quieter. My dds are 6 years apart, so I don't know how to adapt these strategies for 3yos who don't have as much understanding of cause and effect.

Also, in the spirit of full disclosure, my older dd still interrupts the baby's bedtime routine with a random loud request (typically for something the baby can't have and will be jealous of) 2-3 times a year when she's feeling particularly testy. And they're now 9 and 3.

[VroomieMama]

I don't know if there is such a thing but perhaps an infant ear plugs will do the trick?

[D_McG]

I'd pick a consequence that will deter it. No books? Early bedtime the next night?

[PiePie]

As you know, last month I started having MAJOR bedtime battles with DD and it pushed me to where I was not feeling very GD. I was so humbled by that/horrified with myself that i bought Sleepless in America http://www.amazon.com/Sleepless-Amer...8603931&sr=8-1 and read it. I did not implement all of her suggestions (there are MANY), but the ones I have implemented are requiring a siesta (I read to her quietly if she doesn't nap, because she doesn't nap consistently for me, whereas she does in school), and adding massage to the bedtime routine. It has helped lots. I think the downtime/siesta means that she is less tense and hyper later in the night (that wound up craziness right before bedtime), has more self-control and fewer tantrums (although I won't say she never has a tantrum, that would not be accurate). I am convinced that the massage helps reduce the time between bedtime and sleep. Hope the book helps you.

[PennyRoo]

You didn't say what your normal bedtime routine is, but I'm guessing the baby goes to bed and then you have time with DD before her bed. It seems to me that the natural consequence of her waking the baby up is that your special time with DD is interrupted, because you have to go deal with the baby. Maybe that means one, or several, less stories, or maybe that means you can't snuggle and hang out together as long as you might otherwise.

It does sound, in some ways, as if she is seeking some sort of attention. My kiddos are 6 years apart and the 8 year old still at times gets needy when I'm putting my littlest one to bed and wanders in with all sorts of attention-getting requests, so this is entirely to be expected in a 3 yo, of course. I'm wondering if you can really build up the time you spend with her after the baby is in bed into a special-just-us-time, that the baby doesn't get to be part of because of course, he's just a baby and needs to go to bed. That could include games, a special snack the baby can't have, bathtub crayons, a short video if you allow it, etc etc. Perhaps if you let her choose the activity earlier in the day and talk about it, framing it as, we have to make sure DS stays asleep so we are able to have this special time without interruptions, you can get her to see the benefits of not waking him.

HTH somewhat!

[PennyRoo]

Oh, forgot to add - -

And just think . ... soon you'll be able to have worry-free marital relations once your DH recovers!

[VroomieMama]

Originally Posted by PennyRoo

You didn't say what your normal bedtime routine is, but I'm guessing the baby goes to bed and then you have time with DD before her bed. It seems to me that the natural consequence of her waking the baby up is that your special time with DD is interrupted, because you have to go deal with the baby. Maybe that means one, or several, less stories, or maybe that means you can't snuggle and hang out together as long as you might otherwise.

It does sound, in some ways, as if she is seeking some sort of attention. My kiddos are 6 years apart and the 8 year old still at times gets needy when I'm putting my littlest one to bed and wanders in with all sorts of attention-getting requests, so this is entirely to be expected in a 3 yo, of course. I'm wondering if you can really build up the time you spend with her after the baby is in bed into a special-just-us-time, that the baby doesn't get to be part of because of course, he's just a baby and needs to go to bed. That could include games, a special snack the baby can't have, bathtub crayons, a short video if you allow it, etc etc. Perhaps if you let her choose the activity earlier in the day and talk about it, framing it as, we have to make sure DS stays asleep so we are able to have this special time without interruptions, you can get her to see the benefits of not waking him.

HTH somewhat!

This suggestion sounds like a great advice. I have a feeling that this will work.

[lookatreestar]

this is my dd, our kids are about the same space in age too. it is SO hard. i have no idea, i tend to use tv as a babysitter or we all go to bed at the same time (i am tandem nursing)

[Maela]

Thanks everyone!

PiePie, I think I'll check out that book. It sounds interesting. I bet Maev would love a massage!

Originally Posted by PennyRoo

You didn't say what your normal bedtime routine is, but I'm guessing the baby goes to bed and then you have time with DD before her bed. It seems to me that the natural consequence of her waking the baby up is that your special time with DD is interrupted, because you have to go deal with the baby. Maybe that means one, or several, less stories, or maybe that means you can't snuggle and hang out together as long as you might otherwise.

It does sound, in some ways, as if she is seeking some sort of attention. My kiddos are 6 years apart and the 8 year old still at times gets needy when I'm putting my littlest one to bed and wanders in with all sorts of attention-getting requests, so this is entirely to be expected in a 3 yo, of course. I'm wondering if you can really build up the time you spend with her after the baby is in bed into a special-just-us-time, that the baby doesn't get to be part of because of course, he's just a baby and needs to go to bed. That could include games, a special snack the baby can't have, bathtub crayons, a short video if you allow it, etc etc. Perhaps if you let her choose the activity earlier in the day and talk about it, framing it as, we have to make sure DS stays asleep so we are able to have this special time without interruptions, you can get her to see the benefits of not waking him.

HTH somewhat!

Great ideas, thank you! Dd goes to bed only about 30 minutes after Ds. they take a bath together, but I take Ds out early as he's usually ready for bed then. While I put Ds to sleep, dh normally (when he's not recovering from a vasec.) finishes bathing Dd, does a bedtime snack, brushes her teeth, helps with pjs, and does potty and I can usually join them for stories. On a good night, Dd reads some books in bed quietly and falls asleep within a half hour. On a bad night, she screams, yells, etc. and wakes ds up many times and falls asleep two hours later.

I think I need to work on not getting so upset when she does wake the baby up. I tend to just lose it then and then she's mad and acts more obnoxious than she probably would if I stayed calm and cool.

Thanks again!

ETA: Dd is spending the night at her nana and papa's tonight (she loves it there), so I've got it easy tonight with just one kid!

[Maela]

Update

So the past two nights have gone pretty well. Ds has been taking longer to fall asleep, so I haven't been able to have hardly any special time with Dd before she's ready for bed. I've tried the massage. She's not that into it. She asks me to do it and then after ten seconds says she doesn't want it any more. : But I've been really working on being calm when she's loud. The less I freak out the first time she's loud, the less likely she is to do it again or get upset.