would you be upset? uninvited from BD party after exposure to chicken pox - Page 6

[bebebradford]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

Why were you shocked? I wouldn't have any problem with someone visiting my family, including a baby, if they had a cold. It wouldn't even be on my radar. And, honestly, until I started hanging out on MDC, I don't think it would have even occurred to me to mention it if I had one.

?
Nobody wants their newborn or small babe sick. Babies take sickness, even colds, a lot worse than most adults. If someone came to visit us while my children were infants knowing they had a cold I think my head would explode. I thought it was pretty much standard courtesy everywhere that you don't come around infants if you have an illness..No mother wants a small babe to be sick, and I'm sure her momma bear claws would come out if someone knew they were sick and risked her child's health.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy

These are the same in-laws who would use hand sanitizer at every chance, constantly washing hands, vax against everything, mainstream medicine, etc. They were not 'casual' about illness exposure, but they wanted to see DS... It wasn't about having a different view in this case, but about having selfish reasons for suddenly changing their view.

As they called and asked, I think "selfish" is really overstating it, personally.

But I'd still be shocked if anyone else did this -- around here, people keep sick kids home from school. People don't visit a new baby if they aren't feeling well (even if it's just a tickle in their throat). Most people seem to realize no one wants to be sick if they can avoid it. I guess I don't really understand why you'd want someone to knowingly/purposefully give you or your newborn a cold?

Want? I don't "want" them to, particularly. I just don't care one way or the other. I simply don't try to avoid illness through hygiene/isolation. I do try to keep my immune system healthy (exercise, eating right, etc.), but I don't try to avoid exposure to illness. I don't know that many people who do try to avoid it, actually. It's just a different world view.

Those people living communally aren't going to prevent the spread of germs because they're in such close contact on a daily basis. I'm talking about not passing it to people from other families/communes.

When I mentioned people living in communal societies, I wasn't discussing communicable illnesses in general, so much as responding to the idea that we have an "instinctive" desire to stay in bed while sick, because we're trying not to spread the illness. That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me, as staying in bed would only prevent the spread of illness in a society like ours, where individual families live in separate homes. That hasn't been the norm throughout human history, so there's no reason that instinct would exist. I think we want to stay in bed (when we do - I have to be really sick to want to stay in bed), it's because we need rest.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by bebebradford

?
Nobody wants their newborn or small babe sick. Babies take sickness, even colds, a lot worse than most adults. If someone came to visit us while my children were infants knowing they had a cold I think my head would explode. I thought it was pretty much standard courtesy everywhere that you don't come around infants if you have an illness..No mother wants a small babe to be sick, and I'm sure her momma bear claws would come out if someone knew they were sick and risked her child's health.

I guess I don't have momma bear claws.

ETA: It's also not my experience that babies take colds a lot worse than adults. Two of my kids have had colds during their first month, and they were both pretty easy about it, and didn't seem to be experiencing anything unusual/severe. IME, it's the kids from about 6-18 (maybe 15) months that have a really hard time with it. They seem to have a good idea of how they "should" feel, but no understanding of why they don't.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by earthmama369

I was old enough when I got the chicken pox 28 years ago to remember how it went down. I was exposed at school. I was on the early wave and was quarantined at home when I started showing symptoms. My sister was assumed to have been directly exposed through me -- she was quarantined without symptoms. She developed chicken pox a little over a week later. So yes, she did stay home for quite some time while feeling perfectly healthy.

I think sometimes when we look back at the halcyon days of yesteryear, we gloss some of the details. They did, in fact, quarantine healthy children if there was a reasonable suspicion that exposure of a communicable disease had occurred. The strictness of policy probably varied from town to town, just as it does now, but as I understand it, the one in which I grew up was pretty average.

No. They claimed to have quarantined healthy children if there was a reasonable suspicion that exposure of a communicable disease had occurred. If they were really doing that, they'd have been closing schools on a regular basis. I've never heard anyone mention that as a policy, and I've heard a lot about quarantines on these threads. (I honestly have no idea what the rules were around here, but I know that when I had mumps and went home sick, my sister wasn't kept home...and neither was I when she had mumps a year or two before that.) There is a reasonable suspicion that the classmates/playmates of a child with a communicable disease have been exposed to it.

[Oriole]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

No. They claimed to have quarantined healthy children if there was a reasonable suspicion that exposure of a communicable disease had occurred. If they were really doing that, they'd have been closing schools on a regular basis. I've never heard anyone mention that as a policy, and I've heard a lot about quarantines on these threads.

I just wanted to say that it might not be the standard policy in the US at the moment, but where I grew up, they did close schools for one, even two weeks at a time (usually some time in winter) when too many kids got sick. My sister, back at home, said our city of 2 million had schools closed this past winter as well. I remember that it was not unusual to get an extra vacation due to quickly spreading illness.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by velochic

I agree with this. There can be no guarantee on incubation period no matter what the "experts" say, and my dd is the "proof" of that. She was exposed on a Thursday at a LLL leader's meeting and had spots on the Monday night when I was getting her pajamas on. By Tuesday is was obviously CP. That's a max of 5 days from exposure to contagious CP... and we had them run a titer on her for her records to confirm it was CP, so there was no doubt.

While I agree that the "experts" aren't necessarily correct, I'm curious as to how you know that your dd got the chickenpox at the LLL meeting. I had chickenpox as a child. We have no idea where I got it, or when I was exposed. My son and nephew had chickenpox as children. We have no idea where they got it, or when they were exposed. (Presumably, both cases were at school, but there was nobody there with known chickenpox.) Unless you'd been living in isolation, your dd could have been exposed prior to the LLL meeting, and then happened to be exposed again at the meeting.

I see this a lot, actually (not really pointing fingers at you velochic, as you certainly could be right). People are constantly saying stuff about "so-and-so showed up at such-and-such event and he/she was sick and I just know that's why dd/ds/dh/I got sick." We don't know that. It's not always the obvious "culprit" who passes on an illness.

[VillageMom6]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

I don't "want" them to (expose my newborn/child to an illness), particularly. I just don't care one way or the other.

Wowzers. I've always prided myself on recognizing that there are a variety of approaches to parenting.

But your outlook is so totally alien... so completely foreign to me... that I can't even wrap my mind around it.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Oriole

I just wanted to say that it might not be the standard policy in the US at the moment, but where I grew up, they did close schools for one, even two weeks at a time (usually some time in winter) when too many kids got sick. My sister, back at home, said our city of 2 million had schools closed this past winter as well. I remember that it was not unusual to get an extra vacation due to quickly spreading illness.

If "enough" kids get sick. The point is that if they were actually quarantining anyone who had a "reasonable suspicion" of being exposed, they'd close schools as the first known case. Quarantining a sibling looks good on paper, but a best friend or regular playmate is also at high riks of picking up the illness, and they don't quarantine them.

I don't really care if the schools want to require siblings to stay home. I just think it's a pretty serious case of closing the barn door after the horse escaped. I mean...my sister and I both had both measles and mumps as children. We didn't have either of them at the same time...but there were mumps going through the school when my sister had them (not when I did...and I had measles before I was school age).

ETA: They didn't close my high school during a measles outbreak in...'84, I think. I had classes where half the students were out sick, and we just kept chugging. I wonder if this is some kind of strange regional/cultural difference or something.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by Oriole

I just wanted to say that it might not be the standard policy in the US at the moment, but where I grew up, they did close schools for one, even two weeks at a time (usually some time in winter) when too many kids got sick. My sister, back at home, said our city of 2 million had schools closed this past winter as well. I remember that it was not unusual to get an extra vacation due to quickly spreading illness.

They closed schools here this year for H1N1.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by VillageMom6

Wowzers. I've always prided myself on recognizing that there are a variety of approaches to parenting.

But your outlook is so totally alien... so completely foreign to me... that I can't even wrap my mind around it.

Well, this discussion has veered around a little bit. I would be concerned about exposing my newborn to chickenpox, but I was talking about colds and such.

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

I graduated in 98, and I can remember a number of times since then our school disctrict closing the high school and middle school because too many kids were out with the Flu-bug.

OH, and they sent home a note towards the end of the school year that there was a confirmed case of fifths disease. GOOD LORD IN HEAVEN WHATEVER SHALL WE DO. sorry.

[Ceinwen]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

Want? I don't "want" them to, particularly. I just don't care one way or the other. I simply don't try to avoid illness through hygiene/isolation. I do try to keep my immune system healthy (exercise, eating right, etc.), but I don't try to avoid exposure to illness. I don't know that many people who do try to avoid it, actually. It's just a different world view.

Yikes, I sure do avoid illness/exposure to illness - all the time.

I work in an emergency department of a busy hospital, and trust me - if I can avoid myself and/or my kids being sick... I do it.

We wear gloves and masks at work, frequent hand washing, quarantine people, give medications and iv fluids... I keep my kids away from other kids with known viral illnesses (like the flu) and quarantine my own kids when they're sick with something I'm sure other people would not like their kids exposed to (again, flu, gastro virus - not just simple cold symptoms)

I can't envision 'not caring' one way or the other. I hate feeling sick, and my kids are hell on wheels when they're sick - so we really try to stay healthy. Including avoiding known cases of viral infection.

[Oriole]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

I see this a lot, actually (not really pointing fingers at you velochic, as you certainly could be right). People are constantly saying stuff about "so-and-so showed up at such-and-such event and he/she was sick and I just know that's why dd/ds/dh/I got sick." We don't know that. It's not always the obvious "culprit" who passes on an illness.

I guess from my point of view, it doesn't matter if you can exactly pinpoint where you got an illness this or that particular time in your life. What matters is, communicable disease spread from person to person, and it's a very understandable approach in parenting where you try not to expose your child to everything that's going around town.

Being seriously ill is not fun. Some people / children won't have too many symptoms and will go on with their life just fine. Some people will have to go through a great deal of pain while getting over the illness. Some people will die from the exact same illness that I might not even remember one year from now.

I guess I view it just as a nice thing to at least try to prevent spreading what I have on to others. Will I always succeed? Probably not. Is it a big deal in most cases? Probably not. Should I care about trying to contain an illness that may cost painful recovery and maybe even life to someone else? I think I should.

[NiteNicole]

GOOD LORD IN HEAVEN WHATEVER SHALL WE DO. sorry.

I don't see how it's all that funny. When kids get sick, they have to stay home. When kids stay home, someone needs to stay with them. Not everyone has a stay at home parent, daycare on stand by, or grandparent who can step in. Not everyone has infinite sick days. Just because an illness doesn't outright kill everyone who gets it, that doesn't mean it's no big deal for the people who have to deal with the consequences.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Oriole

I guess from my point of view, it doesn't matter if you can exactly pinpoint where you got an illness this or that particular time in your life. What matters is, communicable disease spread from person to person, and it's a very understandable approach in parenting where you try not to expose your child to everything that's going around town.

I was responding to a specific post, which was about incubation times. While I'm not arguing that it may have been only five days, the poster doesn't actually know that, because she doesn't know that her child caught it when she thinks she did. (Maybe she does - I do realize they may not have left the house for a week prior to the LLL meeting or something.)

Being seriously ill is not fun. Some people / children won't have too many symptoms and will go on with their life just fine. Some people will have to go through a great deal of pain while getting over the illness. Some people will die from the exact same illness that I might not even remember one year from now.

I guess I view it just as a nice thing to at least try to prevent spreading what I have on to others. Will I always succeed? Probably not. Is it a big deal in most cases? Probably not. Should I care about trying to contain an illness that may cost painful recovery and maybe even life to someone else? I think I should.

And, since discussing this with people on MDC, I do wash my hands all the time when out shopping and such. I wouldn't let my sick child go to a party with peopple I don't know well. I've come to realize that my circle of friends and family isn't the norm. But, we haven't changed the way we interact within that circle.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by Barbie64g

I graduated in 98, and I can remember a number of times since then our school disctrict closing the high school and middle school because too many kids were out with the Flu-bug.

OH, and they sent home a note towards the end of the school year that there was a confirmed case of fifths disease. GOOD LORD IN HEAVEN WHATEVER SHALL WE DO. sorry.

Well...just so you know, I'm pregnant (in my first trimester) and my son just recently had Fifth's Disease. So I'm learning a lot about it.

If you're in your 3rd trimester, it's fine. But unfortunately in your first, it can kill your baby. I was tested last week and didn't have any antibodies (so I didn't have it as a child) and I am going in for testing this afternoon to find out if that has changed, i.e. I got it, since I am not in the lifelong immunity group.

If I did, I will have to go for an ultrasound probably weekly to see if my baby survives; in 6 to 10 per cent of cases, the fetus develops a severe anemia that can result in heart failure. The only treatment option is blood transfusions, that I know of so far.

Now Fifth's is a tough one to know they've got because they're contagious before they get the rash. In my son's case he was probably most contagious at home, but he was in school the day before he got the rash (we had no idea). We kept him home an extra day + weekend to be sure he couldn't spread it. We don't know where he got it, especially because Fifth's is such a mild illness...unless you're pregnant. So I totally get that there was not a way to prevent it.

But just so you know - I have already lost a child and had 9 early miscarriages. This is my last shot at having a baby, I kind of feel (almost 40) and this minor childhood disease has made me really stressed out, teary, and sad.

So - yeah.

[peainthepod]

Speaking as a non-vaxer who has several friends and acquaintances who also do not vaccinate their children, I'm a little appalled that anyone would think this is okay. I'm wracking my brain but I don't know a single person who would intentionally bring a CP-exposed child to an event without asking the other parents first. In fact, a dear friend recently offered to cancel a visit to our house because her DS had recovered from a respiratory infection the week before! I told her not to worry about it and my DS didn't get sick, but I really appreciated her letting me know just in case. I'm pregnant and in the midst of a cross-country move and we really can't afford to catch anything too nasty right now. It was a courtesy that I would have extended to her, and expect from others.

Just because we don't vaccinate doesn't mean we don't take our health--and the health of others--very seriously. In fact, quite the contrary. Yikes.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

While I agree that the "experts" aren't necessarily correct, I'm curious as to how you know that your dd got the chickenpox at the LLL meeting.

Because I remember that week very well, I have it written in her baby book, and because of the snow, that was literally the only thing we did outside of the house that week. That coupled with the fact that the mom called me the day after the meeting to tell me that her dd and ds had the CP, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that that is exactly where dd contracted it, and her incubation period was about 5 - 6 days.

[savithny]

Originally Posted by Barbie64g

Erradicate an illness WITHOUT using vaccines? Hogwash. Thats impossible......

Please note how they did it: STRICT Quarantines. Rigorously enforced. Adhered to.l

Not "Oh, I don't think this is any big deal! I'm just going out for an hour or two! I've got important things to do! I need to run out for these things! My kids will miss this event! Anyway, doesn't everyone WANT to get this disease? They should be GRATEFUL I'm out exposing them! It's better to get it naturally!! So they dont' have to be vaccinated!!"

If you want to live without vaxes, you've got to accept that prior to their availability, people treated these diseases differently.

During diptheria epidemics? A common response if it kept moving through a household was to burn the house and its contents to the ground. Now that shows committment to disease prevention.

[Ceinwen]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

Well...just so you know, I'm pregnant (in my first trimester) and my son just recently had Fifth's Disease. So I'm learning a lot about it.

If you're in your 3rd trimester, it's fine. But unfortunately in your first, it can kill your baby. I was tested last week and didn't have any antibodies (so I didn't have it as a child) and I am going in for testing this afternoon to find out if that has changed, i.e. I got it, since I am not in the lifelong immunity group.

If I did, I will have to go for an ultrasound probably weekly to see if my baby survives; in 6 to 10 per cent of cases, the fetus develops a severe anemia that can result in heart failure. The only treatment option is blood transfusions, that I know of so far.

Now Fifth's is a tough one to know they've got because they're contagious before they get the rash. In my son's case he was probably most contagious at home, but he was in school the day before he got the rash (we had no idea). We kept him home an extra day + weekend to be sure he couldn't spread it. We don't know where he got it, especially because Fifth's is such a mild illness...unless you're pregnant. So I totally get that there was not a way to prevent it.

But just so you know - I have already lost a child and had 9 early miscarriages. This is my last shot at having a baby, I kind of feel (almost 40) and this minor childhood disease has made me really stressed out, teary, and sad.

So - yeah.

I'm so sorry mama That must be incredibly scary. Thinking of you and your little one.