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would you be upset? uninvited from BD party after exposure to chicken pox - Page 8

post #141 of 185
I would not be upset-- in fact, I would uninvite myself. We recently had a similar situation, with a friend who's son got CP the week before his birthday party. She really wanted to hold it as planned (he still had spots, though most were dry). I have a 4 year old and a 5month old and we're leaving for vacation tomorrow. I don't want to deal with CP on vacation. I told her we didn't feel comfortable with going while he still had some "active" spots. She moved the party.

Her text was brusque, I get why you feel hurt. But I totally understand where she's coming from.
post #142 of 185
Aloha all - please remember that we can discuss and disagree with ideas but not take issue with posters themselves as inidviduals including casting suspicion or taking direct issue with another poster. Thanks for keeping the User Agreement in mind when posting
post #143 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oriole View Post
I just wanted to say that it might not be the standard policy in the US at the moment, but where I grew up, they did close schools for one, even two weeks at a time (usually some time in winter) when too many kids got sick. My sister, back at home, said our city of 2 million had schools closed this past winter as well. I remember that it was not unusual to get an extra vacation due to quickly spreading illness.
My elementary school was closed once because of an out break of whooping cough and they couldn't keep parents from sending their sick kids to school. So they just closed the school for a couple of weeks.
post #144 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by MommatoAandA View Post
Chicken Pox, in the grand spectrum is not that big of a deal
From: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/...s-faqs-gen.htm

"Many people are not aware that before a vaccine was available approximately 10,600 persons were hospitalized and 100 to 150 died as a result of chickenpox in the U.S. every year"

"Many of the deaths and complications from chickenpox occur in previously healthy children and adults."

"These reports have shown that some deaths from chickenpox continue to occur in healthy, unvaccinated children and adults."


Ten THOUSAND people paying hospital bills for your "not a big deal?" Of those, 150 die. Do you get to determine who the 150 are?

But then, I'm in the number of people who you think should just stay at home at all times and never share in birthday parties, BBQs, or other joyous events because we have immuno-compromised people in the house.
post #145 of 185
I totally support and respect parents who choose not to vax.

However, it frustrates me to no end when some then *refuse* or get highly hostile to having to follow quarentine procedures! I think it's because very few people bother to research that, because it's not widely available info now that the common presumption is that all people are vaccinated.

We did see some of that reinstated with H1N1 (moving from very conservative must-stay-home for 2 weeks even if the fever breaks before then/must stay home while anyone in the immediate family is sick, to the less conservative 48 hours after fever breaking and just the ill person affected). How quickly we as a society forget!

It's really not fun to have to deal with quarentine. I had to deal with 4 weeks of it because we had very early H1N1 cases. It really really sucked. I really can't imagine how stressful that would be for a working parent--at least both DH and myself a SAH/WAH anyway, and we have a good support system and were able to receive dropoffs of fresh produce (I keep a couple months supply of nonperishable food and water at all times, thank goodness!) After the immediate period of illness, when you don't feel like going anywhere or doing anything ANYWAY, I felt very oppressed, anxious, and angry and even belligerent! And I even accepted intellectually that because not much was known about the virus that I agreed I should adopt conservative practices! We did have the opportunity to get vaccinated, but chose not to (we never have gotten flu shots for a variety of reasons both rational and perhaps irrational). Dealing with quarentine was, IMO, part of the responsibilities of my choice and the consequences of getting the illness. It wasn't a punishment.

When other people choose a very conservative approach, it's not a punishment personal to you. (though if you seriously decide that you'll just not tell anyone and intentionally expose your kids and then go out without informing your friends who you know are concerned about that--they may have pretty punitive reactions when they find out!) You may feel like they're being silly and alarmist; but by the same token, they might feel that you are being alarmist and fearful by not getting your kids vaxed. It can work both ways. I think that it's better to call no harm/no foul in these cases. Everyone has to miss events sometimes because of just life timing crap. It doesn't really matter why.

If your issue is with your friend's "rudeness" then by all means ask her for clarity on that. But that is a separate issue to the exposure. I really don't think that you can fault someone from setting conservative boundaries at their OWN party. If someone says something in a tone that hurts you though--I think that's something that should be addressed, and frankly I would not read too much "tone" in a text. Why not ask and see if she was upset with you first. If not, then now that the party's over (I think) if you can calmly tell her that you felt hurt because you thought she snapped at you, then I bet you can mend that quickly.

I wouldn't carpetbag the CP debate onto that though, if I were the OP.
post #146 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by One_Girl View Post
That is strange because my dd's doctor told me that people who have the vaccine are less likely to get shingles than people who don't. Gary Goldman is an engineer with a PHD in computer science, my doctor has actually been to medical school and knows how to interpret the literature, she has also told me which shots not to get because they aren't supported by the literature. I think that like many people I will rely on my doctor and not an engineer for medical advice.

Here is a link with his biography:

http://www.novaccine.com/gary_s_goldman.asp
Yes, I realize that Dr Goldman is a research analyst but this doesn't detract from the fact that shingles seems to be kept from occurring in the unvaccinated population by periodic contact with varicella virus. Doesn't it stand to reason that if blanket varicella vaccination occurs in the younger population that those who have not received boosters for the vaccine, or have not received the vaccine at all, will be at increased risk for older-onset chicken-pox or increased incidence of shingles?
I think the vaccine has caused more harm than good in the long-term.
post #147 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandelionkid View Post
Yes, I realize that Dr Goldman is a research analyst but this doesn't detract from the fact that shingles seems to be kept from occurring in the unvaccinated population by periodic contact with varicella virus. Doesn't it stand to reason that if blanket varicella vaccination occurs in the younger population that those who have not received boosters for the vaccine, or have not received the vaccine at all, will be at increased risk for older-onset chicken-pox or increased incidence of shingles?
I think the vaccine has caused more harm than good in the long-term.
That's why the UK doesn't vaccinate for Chickenpox routinely. The Dept of Health there is concerned that it will lower the age of shingles and increase the number of cases and severity: http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1032.asp...bCategoryID=63

That's why shingles is still a disease of old age in the UK but is becoming more and more common at younger ages in the US.
post #148 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
We did see some of that reinstated with H1N1 (moving from very conservative must-stay-home for 2 weeks even if the fever breaks before then/must stay home while anyone in the immediate family is sick, to the less conservative 48 hours after fever breaking and just the ill person affected). How quickly we as a society forget!
Actually, here in NYC during H1N1, we got nasty letters from the school from April until June saying that kids had to be in school unless they had fevers over 100.5 within the last 24 hours. They made it very clear that they didn't feel that parents could make the call as to how ill was ill enough to stay home. Family members being sick was not an excused absence in any way. That seemed to be the attitude of employers as well. So that's not universal.

No quarantine restrictions I have seen from CP in the past involved potential exposure, staying home when family members were sick, or staying home before fever or spots appeared. There's also a thread going around about why a cancer patient is told to stay away from vax-age young children, and it appears to be because recently vaxed MMR, Rota, and CP (live vax) all shed enough to give immune suppressed individual those illnesses.
post #149 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oriole View Post
Incubation period is a great thing to rely on, only in my lifetime I have learned to realize that the anxiety doesn't always follow reason. I'm okay with sparing several families this kind of worry, when all I have to do is keep my kids home for a couple of weeks.
Now, this I agree with.
post #150 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandelionkid View Post
Yes, I realize that Dr Goldman is a research analyst but this doesn't detract from the fact that shingles seems to be kept from occurring in the unvaccinated population by periodic contact with varicella virus. Doesn't it stand to reason that if blanket varicella vaccination occurs in the younger population that those who have not received boosters for the vaccine, or have not received the vaccine at all, will be at increased risk for older-onset chicken-pox or increased incidence of shingles?
I think the vaccine has caused more harm than good in the long-term.
Shingles has been around longer than the vaccination so it isn't something that is kept from occurring in the unvaccinated population. If it was it wouldn't have started until the chicken pox vaccine came out. It isn't something that is just now coming about because we now can vaccinate for chicken pox, so no I don't think that stands to reason. The CDC states that people who have had chickenpox and recovered from it sometimes get shingles again, it says nothing about the vaccine being linked to shingles.

Looking at research and being a research analyst qualified to analyze research in the medical field are two different things. I wouldn't expect a doctor to be qualified in computer science and I don't expect a man with a PHD in computer science to be an expert in medicine.
post #151 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by One_Girl View Post

Looking at research and being a research analyst qualified to analyze research in the medical field are two different things. I wouldn't expect a doctor to be qualified in computer science and I don't expect a man with a PHD in computer science to be an expert in medicine.
By that logic I suppose that no mama is qualified to look at the data for reasons not to vaccinate their children. 'Cause we sure don't all have PhDs (or is that MDs?). By that logic we should just turn all of our decision making power to those "who know better".

Give me a break. I am just as qualified to interpret medical data as mr. doctorman. And having a PhD in anything certainly teaches you more about doing research than most medical professionals ever learn.
post #152 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by One_Girl View Post
Shingles has been around longer than the vaccination so it isn't something that is kept from occurring in the unvaccinated population. If it was it wouldn't have started until the chicken pox vaccine came out. It isn't something that is just now coming about because we now can vaccinate for chicken pox, so no I don't think that stands to reason.
FWIW, I do not think that "kept from occurring in the unvaccinated population" means universally kept from occurring. I think it meant more "when shingles doesn't occur in the unvaxed population, it's because of recurring exposure to the varicella virus"...or even just that re-exposure to the varicella virus reduces the odds of developing shingles.

I may be misinterpreting the poster you quoted, but that's how I read it. I'm working through this thread now, trying to decide what to do about chickenpox, since my attempts to expose the kids have been unsuccessful. I don't want to get the vax, but also don't want them to get it when they're older. I really wish I'd been able to find wild pox.

Quote:
Looking at research and being a research analyst qualified to analyze research in the medical field are two different things. I wouldn't expect a doctor to be qualified in computer science and I don't expect a man with a PHD in computer science to be an expert in medicine.
I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to here, but I don't expect a doctor to be a "research analyst qualified to analyze research in the medical field". I've seen too many instances where they clearly can't (or don't - makes no difference to me, as a patient, whether it's a lack of ability or a lack of desire) do such analysis. (I'm not claiming I can, either - but I'm not a doctor.)

Also, with respect to your earlier quote here:
Quote:
because my dd's doctor told me that people who have the vaccine are less likely to get shingles than people who don't.
How does your doctor know? How long has the varicellal vaccine been around? I first heard of it about...7-8 years ago, I think. The children who have received this vax as part of their routine immunizations aren't even close to old enough for us to have any real information about how the vax will affect the incidence of shingles.
post #153 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl View Post
By that logic I suppose that no mama is qualified to look at the data for reasons not to vaccinate their children. 'Cause we sure don't all have PhDs (or is that MDs?). By that logic we should just turn all of our decision making power to those "who know better".

Give me a break. I am just as qualified to interpret medical data as mr. doctorman. And having a PhD in anything certainly teaches you more about doing research than most medical professionals ever learn.
I don't feel as qualified as my doctor to interpret medical data. It is great that you do, but that isn't something I feel qualified to do. I feel qualified to teach and to research teaching related things, everyone has a passion though and I think it is awesome that you can use yours to make good decisions regarding your child. My dd has a doctor I trust a lot so I feel comfortable turning medical related decisions over to her because I feel she is more qualified to make those decisions. I have been lucky to have a very good doctor for my dd who keeps her comments on medical stuff, is big on alternative care methods, is very knowledgeable, and has a lot of experience so that trust comes easily. Obviously this isn't can have or even wants to have and I think you should do what feels right for your family and I will continue to do what feels right to me for mine.

Storm-Bride: I haven't seen anything commenting on being exposed to kids with chicken pox giving a booster shot in any of the stuff I have read. What I mean about the research is that people who research tend to have fields they know a lot about and those are the fields they are most qualified to research in. Knowing about research methods helps you understand what makes a good study and what doesn't but it doesn't help you understand the terms that are common to a particular field of study. A computer scientist could tell if a piece of research is good or not by looking at the general set up (as can almost anyone) but that doesn't qualify them to interpret the study. A doctor has enough knowledge about research and a knowledge base to interpret medical research a computer analyst has knowledge about research and a knowledge base to interpret computer science related studies. I go to a doctor for medical information and I ask my friends husband (a computer science expert) for information about computers. My mother does research in the disability field and recently turned down a job researching unemployment related material for the Department of Labor because it isn't her field of expertise and she knew nothing about unemployment stuff and didn't want to do it incorrectly. Medical research is an area where I would not trust someone who isn't qualified because the way it is interpreted can really change the course of someones life or end it. Also, the varicella vaccine was developed in the 1970's in Japan so I am sure research about it has been around for quite a while even though you weren't personally aware of it. I am sorry you have had so many bad instances with doctors not qualified to study the research in regards to what they prescribe. My family and I have been fortunate enough to have had knowledgeable doctors. Do you live back east by any chance? My mother is back east now and is shocked by how inept doctors are there compared to here (which really shocked me).
post #154 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by EviesMom View Post
Actually, here in NYC during H1N1, we got nasty letters from the school from April until June saying that kids had to be in school unless they had fevers over 100.5 within the last 24 hours. They made it very clear that they didn't feel that parents could make the call as to how ill was ill enough to stay home. Family members being sick was not an excused absence in any way. That seemed to be the attitude of employers as well. So that's not universal.
I did not say it was universal, just relating my experience in our local area that was sucky. Our outbreak happened Octuber 2009, so it was Sept. through December 2009 that there was a lot of stressing keeping your kids home; normally the push is in the opposite direction, esp. at our school.

Our SD has the same policy (re: fevers, and attendance) due to how they get paid (daily headcount). However, our particular SD made the decision that they were not going to get draconian about attendance this year, because of the new virus and all the panic at the beginning of the school year.

I suspect that our elementary school had more stringent policies that they encouraged people to follow (very STRONGLY encouraged) because our school is one of the few elementary schools left in the SD with a full time nurse (acutally, I believe we are the ONLY one, and we have 2) so almost all of the district's medically fragile kids go to our school. Not that it helps children to institute the quarantine AFTER they come down with it, since you're contagious before being symptomatic, esp. for the flu.

However, I'm just pointing out that dealing with public health issues really sucks, especially if you are being pressed into or feel that you should comply with more conservative measures than you would like.
post #155 of 185
OP- In the situation you described, yes I would be upset by the manner in which I was uninvited by my friend, but I would not be upset by the reason.
post #156 of 185
In terms of general illness etiquette, of course we can't know when our kids our incubating something, but if we do know, then we should try to avoid exposing other people....even if the disease is mild.

In my circle of friends, we keep each other posted about illnesses all the time....both before and after the fact. The other day ds came down with Fifth Disease. Unfortunately, it's one that is contagious long before any symptoms, so he had been to a playdate the day before. I called my friends whose children he had played with to give them a heads-up. No one blamed me for exposing their kids, but they all appreciated the warning and we cancelled a planned movie-date for the next day.

No, at that point, there was nothing that could be done about the transmission, but both of the families have working moms and money is tight. Being able to time to make a contingency plan for childcare or time off can make a huge difference in someone's budget or even job security.

I also researched Fifth Disease and called my very pregnant friend whose party we were all planning to attend at the end of the week. I told her what I had found out about contagious periods (not contagious after the rash appears), told her how long it would be since his rash started (4 days at that point) and let her make the call about whether we should stay home. She decided she was comfortable with ds attending and we had a great time. She is a very laid back mama of five, but I have a feeling she would have been pretty irritated at me if we hadn't checked in with her first.

Of course we can't plan for everything, but there are lots of reasons (safety, financial, family plans) that illness at a particular moment isn't convenient for a family. If you can give people the option, then do and respect their requests.
post #157 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by One_Girl View Post
Storm-Bride: <snip>
What I mean about the research is that people who research tend to have fields they know a lot about and those are the fields they are most qualified to research in. Knowing about research methods helps you understand what makes a good study and what doesn't but it doesn't help you understand the terms that are common to a particular field of study. A computer scientist could tell if a piece of research is good or not by looking at the general set up (as can almost anyone) but that doesn't qualify them to interpret the study. A doctor has enough knowledge about research and a knowledge base to interpret medical research a computer analyst has knowledge about research and a knowledge base to interpret computer science related studies. I go to a doctor for medical information and I ask my friends husband (a computer science expert) for information about computers. My mother does research in the disability field and recently turned down a job researching unemployment related material for the Department of Labor because it isn't her field of expertise and she knew nothing about unemployment stuff and didn't want to do it incorrectly. Medical research is an area where I would not trust someone who isn't qualified because the way it is interpreted can really change the course of someones life or end it.

<snip>

I am sorry you have had so many bad instances with doctors not qualified to study the research in regards to what they prescribe. My family and I have been fortunate enough to have had knowledgeable doctors. Do you live back east by any chance? My mother is back east now and is shocked by how inept doctors are there compared to here (which really shocked me).
I live in Canada (west coast), but I'm not only talking about my direct doctor-patient interactions. I'm talking about lots of things I've seen/read right from their own mouths (or keyboards) over the years.

Doctors may or may not be more qualified than non-doctors to analyse medical research. I don't actually agree that they necesarily are. I think it really depends on the individual. However, doctors also have their own biases and world views. In any case, a doctor saying "people who get the vaccine are less likely to get shingles" doesn't tell me whether that doctor has actually read, let alone analyzed, anything more than a statement from a drug company representative. I'm glad you have a doctor who does that, but there is no way to know if any given statement from a doctor is based on their analysis of research or on something they heard at a cocktail party, yk?

Quote:
I haven't seen anything commenting on being exposed to kids with chicken pox giving a booster shot in any of the stuff I have read.

<snip>

Also, the varicella vaccine was developed in the 1970's in Japan so I am sure research about it has been around for quite a while even though you weren't personally aware of it.
The 70s. I was born in '68, and I'm only 42. I don't know anything about the odds of someone who had the chickenpox vax getting or not getting shingles as an adult. Anybody they tested a childhood vax on in the 70s is unlikely to be much (if at all) older than I am. There can't be sufficient research of the type necessary to determine that. We're not going to know one way or the other for a long time.

I don't know anything about the varicella vaccine, with respect to booster shots, etc. In my previous post, I was just trying to clarify (for myself, mostly) what the other poster meant about shingles in the vaxed/unvaxed population.

I decided a long time ago not to get the varicella vaccine for my kids, unless I can't find wild pox (which is starting to look as though it may the way it goes). I'd personally much, much rather have the wild pox, for a variety of reasons. As such, it's not something I've researched very much at all. If I don't find wild pox again within about a year, I'll start doing more digging.
post #158 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by rejoiceinlife View Post
Well I do know this: next time I expose my children to something, I will NOT be telling ANYONE.
You think that lying about infectious disease is a good idea? May you never have a loved one become immune compromised for any reason.
post #159 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbactivist View Post
When I was a kid in school 30 + years ago, people didn't have to stay home to avoid exposure, because those who were sick knew THEY were the ones who should stay home. I think it's rude to go somewhere when you're sick. Why do people think that's okay? Just asking in general, not specifically the op...

In books of that era, there's things like a kid at school breaking out in spots and all the families of the other kids go into quarantine (meaning not leaving the house at ALL, with someone else doing the food shopping) for a couple of weeks until they either do or don't break out in spots.

Quarantine after exposure is what they did back when "everyone got it."

And then if they did catch the disease, they continued in quarantine for as many months as applicable.

With great big signs on the house.
post #160 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthmama369 View Post
I was old enough when I got the chicken pox 28 years ago to remember how it went down. I was exposed at school. I was on the early wave and was quarantined at home when I started showing symptoms. My sister was assumed to have been directly exposed through me -- she was quarantined without symptoms. She developed chicken pox a little over a week later. So yes, she did stay home for quite some time while feeling perfectly healthy.
I remember when I had chicken pox, being stuck in the house until I and all 4 of my sibs had been through the disease. I caught it from a neighborhood child, (we didn't know about the exposure) gave it to my whole 1st grade class, and missed most of the last month of school. This was in the early 1980s.

I had it first, followed by my younger sibs a while later. AFAIK, I exposed them. Once I was identified as having cp, we were all stuck at home.
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