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"I can't" actually means "I won't" - Page 4

post #61 of 107
whether you believe you can or whether you believe you can't, you're right.

I am thinking, that when applying this kind of philosophy, it is wise to apply it to things that are realistic.

While stated as an absolute, the context that most of this type of advice is given in, is in the goal of fulfillment and self actualisation. And in creating happiness in your life.

If you attach to the idea that you will never have/be able to do etc. and you are also attached to the idea that you want to..you will be unhappy.

If you attach to the possibility...you may not achieve it....exactly as you would like...but you will at least be open to the possibility and be happy with where you are in any given moment.

For me, how I apply this is, I don't attach greatly to any desire or goal but leave myself open to their possibility.

I then work towards those goals, doing the thing I love to do and enjoying the things I don't particularly like to do, but have to do as a responsible adult. Like cleaning the house to rock music and dancing etc.

If I believed I couldn't enjoy cleaning the house...I probably wouldn't.

That's how I interpret it anyway.

post #62 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by allgirls View Post
whether you believe you can or whether you believe you can't, you're right.
What an absolute pile of nonsense. That makes a cute sounding slogan, and carries some truth, with respect to the importance of attitude, but it's a gross oversimplification, and is competely untrue, in many cases.

Quote:
If you attach to the idea that you will never have/be able to do etc. and you are also attached to the idea that you want to..you will be unhappy.
That's fairly self-evident. (From personal experience, I can also state that if you're attached to the idea that you want something, and attached to the idea that you can have it, but you can't, you'll also be unhappy.) If that's what the OP is trying to get at, she's approaching it in an extraordinarily circuitous way.

Quote:
If you attach to the possibility...you may not achieve it....exactly as you would like...but you will at least be open to the possibility and be happy with where you are in any given moment.

For me, how I apply this is, I don't attach greatly to any desire or goal but leave myself open to their possibility.
You know...some of us "attach" to particular desires or goals, without ever intending to do so. I certainly never got up, at any point in my life, and thought, "I'm going to make having four children the driving force of my life". I never decided that I desperately wanted a vaginal birth, either. I just did (heck - I still do, even though I've had a tubal and know it's never, ever going to happen). I also spent a good chunk of ten years trying to resign myself to simply accepting that it wasn't happening and enjoying the wonderful son I did have. The desire for three more never, ever went away, until I was holding dd2 in my arms...not for a single second. It was there, underneath everything else I felt or experienced. Wants, needs, goals - these aren't always things that people can just switch on and off.

Quote:
I then work towards those goals, doing the thing I love to do and enjoying the things I don't particularly like to do, but have to do as a responsible adult. Like cleaning the house to rock music and dancing etc.

If I believed I couldn't enjoy cleaning the house...I probably wouldn't.

That's how I interpret it anyway.
This makes perfect sense, but I can't see any relationship between what you're talking about here, and anything the OP has said.
post #63 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
What an absolute pile of nonsense. That makes a cute sounding slogan, and carries some truth, with respect to the importance of attitude, but it's a gross oversimplification, and iscompetely untrue, in many cases.
I used to believe I really could find the end of a rainbow if I really really tried... Turns out that's just not possible no matter what you believe.
post #64 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
What an absolute pile of nonsense. That makes a cute sounding slogan, and carries some truth, with respect to the importance of attitude, but it's a gross oversimplification, and is competely untrue, in many cases.


That's fairly self-evident. (From personal experience, I can also state that if you're attached to the idea that you want something, and attached to the idea that you can have it, but you can't, you'll also be unhappy.) If that's what the OP is trying to get at, she's approaching it in an extraordinarily circuitous way.


You know...some of us "attach" to particular desires or goals, without ever intending to do so. I certainly never got up, at any point in my life, and thought, "I'm going to make having four children the driving force of my life". I never decided that I desperately wanted a vaginal birth, either. I just did (heck - I still do, even though I've had a tubal and know it's never, ever going to happen). I also spent a good chunk of ten years trying to resign myself to simply accepting that it wasn't happening and enjoying the wonderful son I did have. The desire for three more never, ever went away, until I was holding dd2 in my arms...not for a single second. It was there, underneath everything else I felt or experienced. Wants, needs, goals - these aren't always things that people can just switch on and off.


This makes perfect sense, but I can't see any relationship between what you're talking about here, and anything the OP has said.
Re..the first sentence of my post...it's a saying from a spiritual writing from an ancient prophet I believe. I think it is in line with what the OP was trying to express. Whether you believe it to be a pile of anything or a truth to you in your life is entirely the right of you and anyone else who reads it of course.

Re..the last sentence of your post...I would not expect you to understand....I think I know what the OP is referring to...and I was giving her my take on that particular teaching. It sounds like you are unfamiliar with that particular idea so I wouldn't expect you to understand the relationship between the two.

This is a personal growth forum. I believe the OP found something that was of assistance in her own personal development and wanted to share it with the forum. I don't think anything ever rings true with everybody who reads it.
post #65 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by A&A View Post



So sorry about this!

May I ask why he's still a husband and not an ex? Feel free to ignore this question if it's too personal.
Oh, no! I should have been more clear earlier...I was referring to others comments on DH's, eyesight and conception. Bad writing on my part. I will edit.

As far as I know my Dh is faithfull.

I very much appreciate the hug, though, and sympathy.
post #66 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommyshoppinghabit View Post
We actually have all the control, all the safety, all the love, and all the oneness that we could ever want, we are just under an error of perception that we don't have these things. And usually, we are the very ones who are withholding love from ourselves, so start with yourself, not what another person can give you.

.
But this is not true. Maybe you have all these things but I most certainly do not.

I cannot decide where to live without consulting the courts (yay for divorce) nor can I make parenting decisions or even get a babysitter without consulting my xh. And it is not my perception of things. its court documents in writing taking away my control. I cannot take vacations or even have two days in a row off work and still keep my job.

I am not safe. Lots of people are not safe. No matter what their perception tells them they are not safe. period.

Self love is not love. And really God loves everyone so His love doesn't even really count as what most people want when they say they want love. i assune when most people say they want love they want the chosen, special, prefered, called out kind of love. the one that comes with affection, attention, time, acceptance and exclusiveness. and many people do not have any of that.

And I am not really sure what oneness means....

But these things are not a matter of perception. They are the sort of things that are as real and solid as a rock.
post #67 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by allgirls View Post
Re..the first sentence of my post...it's a saying from a spiritual writing from an ancient prophet I believe. I think it is in line with what the OP was trying to express. Whether you believe it to be a pile of anything or a truth to you in your life is entirely the right of you and anyone else who reads it of course.
I didn't know where it was from, but I've heard it before. It is nonsensical, when read literally though. It sounds very profound, and does (sort of) express some truths about how we limit ourselves...but it's still nonsensical at its core. Lots and lots and lots of people believe they can do things that they simply can't.

Quote:
Re..the last sentence of your post...I would not expect you to understand....I think I know what the OP is referring to...and I was giving her my take on that particular teaching. It sounds like you are unfamiliar with that particular idea so I wouldn't expect you to understand the relationship between the two.
It's quite possible that what you said has a lot to do with whatever the OP is referring to. But, it has very little to do with what she's saying.

Quote:
This is a personal growth forum. I believe the OP found something that was of assistance in her own personal development and wanted to share it with the forum. I don't think anything ever rings true with everybody who reads it.
NM.
post #68 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by allgirls View Post
Re..the first sentence of my post...it's a saying from a spiritual writing from an ancient prophet I believe.
It's from Henry Ford. I guess he's pretty old at this point, but prophesy wasn't really his gig.

As for the OP, I think re-framing thinking can be helpful in some situations, and OP, I'm glad you found something that works for you.

Personally, having been raised with this philosophy and seeing its effects on a community of people who embraced it, I think it's limiting and self-indulgent. (And a big yeah that to the points about privilege.) I'm much happier and more at peace with realism/positivism.
post #69 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
Oh, no! I should have been more clear earlier...I was referring to others comments on DH's, eyesight and conception. Bad writing on my part. I will edit.

As far as I know my Dh is faithfull.

I very much appreciate the hug, though, and sympathy.
Whew! Ok, good!! Just worried about ya' there!
post #70 of 107
This whole thread reminds me of the play Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller. (Everyone should now go read--or reread-- it, and then watch the movie with Dustin Hoffman.)

The "salesman" had his best year in 1929. Then he couldn't figure out why the 30s were so bad for him, and he took it really personally.

Outside factors really do influence our lives!!
post #71 of 107
OP, I get what you're trying to say essentially. What I'm put off by is the sort of "zeal of the convert" that oversimplifies everything down to a change in attitude.

I agree with PP who said that can't can be empowering. I had to realize when my first baby was small that I just CAN'T do it by myself, and that empowered me by making me realize that it's OK to have limitations, and it's okay to ask for help. We are social creatures and here to help each other. No man is an island.

I understand that you found this phrase helpful in reframing your own desires and expectations, but applying it to the general public (who may not want it applied to them) is pretty presumptuous. We all come to our own realizations in our own time.
post #72 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
I used to believe I really could find the end of a rainbow if I really really tried... Turns out that's just not possible no matter what you believe.
I'd heard that too, but once we actually saw the end of a rainbow, like 10 ft away from us. It was pretty neat.

Back OT, I agree that this concept is a little... out there. My DH used to get into the psychological motivation-of-the-week type philosophy, but he outgrew it, thank goodness. The reality of life is that not all things ARE possible. But somehow we slog through anyway, and make do with what we're given (hopefully).

The only blanket statement that really applies to every situation is that no blanket statement applies to every situation. Now there's something to meditate on.
post #73 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Girl View Post
The only blanket statement that really applies to every situation is that no blanket statement applies to every situation.
post #74 of 107
Thread Starter 
The OP is meant as a jumping off point into awakening from conventional thinking. There are many jumping off points, some of them will not reverberate with you at this point in time and that's ok. If you are content with your life, then keep plugging along. Someday, somwhere, you will read something or hear something that clicks on a lightbulb in your head. Or not, that's ok too...only humanity will not go on b/c we are rapidly killing ourselves and our planet with the current mentality that we hold.
Conventional thinking is that you have to use your mind to solve a problem, that you have to look at the story of your life in a linear fashion and hang on to it forever, conventional thinking is trying to solve the problem while in the same mentality as when the problem began.
What's more, who is the "I" in "I can't" or "I won't"? Is it the real you or your mind, your ego (a construct of your mind)? YOU are not that story of you life, your ethnicity, your body even. The real you is Awareness, the consciousness that is aware of the world, without the story. We are all the same awareness, just different windows, like on a house. The mind poses problems in a way that hides what is the real block underneath: "I can't have children b/c I physically can't" "I want to desperatly be loved, but I can't find a man who will love me." "I can't get a job." Those are posed based on outside situations ("if X happens" then my life will turn around"). Those kinds of problems are signs to dig deeper. Don't just look at the problem the way your mind poses it. The mind is not your friend.

No one's problems are specifically their own. All of humanity shares every problem encountered by every other human.
If you think these ideas are elitist, I think it is elitist to think you know what is offensive to the "less elite" (for lack of another word). Many people in dire situations are not thinking on any level "I can't." They are doing amazing things w/their lives.
post #75 of 107
Quote:
OP, I get what you're trying to say essentially. What I'm put off by is the sort of "zeal of the convert" that oversimplifies everything down to a change in attitude.
In a way, I find the OP's idea helpful (yes, in a limited and privileged way). I tend to be awful at saying I want to do things without taking any concrete goals to get there. So, I can spend years saying "I really want to write children's books", and am I writing anything more meaningful than a shopping list? Nope. And if pressed, I tend to make up lame excuses for why I'm not doing it - I'm too busy with the baby, I need to take a writing course, I'll do it when I have grandchildren, etc.

So I'm trying to cultivate an attitude of being stern with myself. If I catch myself saying "I wish I could be a clothing designer/travel to England/have a nicely-decorated house", I make myself put the wish into one of three categories:

I don't really want to do it, I just vaguely like the idea (for instance, being a figure skater)
I should take some concrete steps towards making it happen (making money writing, for instance)
It really, genuinely isn't practical/possible/feasible right now or ever (usually due to having a toddler)

Since adopting this philosophy I've actually achieved a few things. We're saving up for and planning a trip to Disneyland, which will hopefully sate my travel yen for a while; I started my own little singing group at home, because I couldn't join a choir that required me to leave DD alone; stuff like that.

That said, a lot of my goals are pretty... domestically achievable. If I really wanted to be an astronaut or a supermodel, all the positive thinking in the world wouldn't make it happen. I'm not, ah, endowed with supermodel attributes; and while it's possible I could be an astronaut, I couldn't without uprooting my entire family, moving away from my parents and sisters, living in a country I don't want to live in, spending DH's hard-earned money, probably giving up having more children for a very long time... sacrifices I'm not willing to make. "Can't" doesn't just mean "things that are impossible according to the laws of physics" - it's acceptable to use the word to mean "would be so inconvenient, hard on others, expensive, physically taxing etc to make it a really stupid and irresponsible decision". That's not the same as "I can't be bothered because I have a bad attitude", KWIM?

Quote:
No one's problems are specifically their own. All of humanity shares every problem encountered by every other human.
This, I don't get. I don't share the PP's problem with infertility, as far as I know. Nor did my mother; she had six children. I don't have the problem of extreme poverty, being a rape survivor, having a broken marriage, having a loved one commit suicide, dealing with issues surrounding adoption... I do have the "problem" of being slightly Aspergic, and I imagine most of the people on this thread don't share that. Obviously, the PP with infertility doesn't share my problem of birth trauma. Yes, we all have problems, and some of them overlap, but they are not all the same problems. And it seems disrespectful to those going through anguish to suggest I'm "sharing" in their problems. I feel sorry for the OP for her infertility issues; that must really suck. But that hardly means her problem is actually affecting my life in any particularly interconnected, mystical way. And there are millions of other infertile women I don't know at all; how am I "sharing" in their problems just by existing? And how is some random guy in Kenya "sharing" my issues with birth trauma?
post #76 of 107
To the OP -

But you are speaking from a totally different spiritual view than I believe to be true. For one, I don't believe that we are merely Awareness as you assert. I am not the center of my universe, no matter what you define the "I" to be.
post #77 of 107
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokering View Post
This, I don't get. I don't share the PP's problem with infertility, as far as I know. Nor did my mother; she had six children. I don't have the problem of extreme poverty, being a rape survivor, having a broken marriage, having a loved one commit suicide, dealing with issues surrounding adoption... I do have the "problem" of being slightly Aspergic, and I imagine most of the people on this thread don't share that. Obviously, the PP with infertility doesn't share my problem of birth trauma. Yes, we all have problems, and some of them overlap, but they are not all the same problems. And it seems disrespectful to those going through anguish to suggest I'm "sharing" in their problems. I feel sorry for the OP for her infertility issues; that must really suck. But that hardly means her problem is actually affecting my life in any particularly interconnected, mystical way. And there are millions of other infertile women I don't know at all; how am I "sharing" in their problems just by existing? And how is some random guy in Kenya "sharing" my issues with birth trauma?
I don't mean that everyone of us manifests the same situations as everyone else. I mean that when pain is felt by one, that energy ripples outward like a stone thrown into a pond.
post #78 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Sage View Post
To the OP -

But you are speaking from a totally different spiritual view than I believe to be true.
Exactly.

OP, I disagree with every bit of your second to last post on the most fundamental level. You are proselytizing... which is fine by me, but I can understand why many of us find it irksome.

It would be no different than if I had started a thread about Jesus Christ being the only path to God and to eternal salvation. No matter how much I believe that to be true, others don't want to hear it preached to them.
post #79 of 107
Quote:
I don't mean that everyone of us manifests the same situations as everyone else. I mean that when pain is felt by one, that energy ripples outward like a stone thrown into a pond.
How so? On an individual level, how does my pain affect that guy in Kenya, or vice versa?

ETA: The only way I can see this philosophy making sense is if you generalise every kind of pain to simply the pain of "being alive" or "being human", in which case, yes, we do by definition all have a shared experience. But at that point the philosophy loses any kind of usefulness. A white upper-class trophy wife who seeks to relieve her angst with plastic surgery and cruises really doesn't share anything useful with, say, a young Nigerian man in poverty who is caught in gang warfare. Yes, they both have the Pain of Being Human, but so what? Their "manifestations", as you call them, are totally different. There's no particular reason to think they'd have any mutual sympathy or shared wisdom or across-the-globe vibes of resonance or what-have-you.

And I agree with VillageMom6 that this thread really belongs in Spirituality or Religious Studies. It's espousing a very particular philosophical viewpoint.
post #80 of 107
Hello!

PG does not host debate so this needs to go to RS.
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