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grandma issue...fatigue-induced tantrums in 4yo

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
my mom is in a huff b/c of my 4.5yo dd. granted, most of the time, when we see my mom and dad, we're on a trip or totally off our schedule b/c they're visiting. when dd gets tired, and particularly tired and overwhelmed, she has tantrums. i don't mean kicking, hitting, on the floor stuff. i mean loud, LOUD crying. this rarely, if ever, happens at home. she's a pretty spunky kid as it is, and it seems to me that these outbursts are pretty normal, and seem to be her way of communicating that she's had enough. i usually already know that she's had enough, but on vacation or with guests, it is sometimes challenging to abruptly put an end to activity, and i just do my best to get her the rest and quiet she needs asap. otherwise, she's a very communicative, engaged, content 4yo.

so, a couple of weeks ago, i went to the beach for a family reunion with my parents, and without dh. i knew it was risky, b/c as much as parents like being grandparents, it has become obvious over the years that more than a couple of days with kids is too much for them, particularly b/c when there are tough moments, my mom, in particular, does not agree with how i handle them. her approach was to strongly communicate, sometimes physically (like pinching me, or at times spanking) that emotional outbursts are socially unacceptable. We had three of these incidents during this week. One where dd stood up to an older relative who was setting different rules for her granddaughter vs. my daughter, and not allowing my 14mo ds to participate in an activity that including, only, playing with balloons. She stuck up for her brother. The second was at 10:30 at night on a crowded boardwalk, in a store, where a cousin had a fit and was bought a toy to quiet her down. dd of course wanted one too. my mom wanted to physically remove dd from the store, and i respectfully declined and just walked dd out and walked her home. the third was after 9 hours in a car, about 2 hours past dd's normal dinnertime. my dad would not allow her to eat before praying, and took her food away b/c she wouldn't wait. i called him out on it in front of her, that the expectation of sitting to pray was unreasonable for a hungry, tired 4 yo and returned her food.

i received a letter from my mom two days ago stating grave concern that i allow my daughter to walk all over me, and that public opinion of dd is damaged by these outbursts. she told me that i need to accept her help and allow her to handle it, as these outbursts are out of control and completely inappropriate coming from a 4 yo.

my strong feeling is that yes, i am responsible, but only for allowing dd to be in situations that are that overwhelming for her. dd has every right to express herself to let me know that she is overwhelmed. of course, i continue to help her learn to do this differently as she gets older, and of course this is nothing like the tantrums of a small toddler. they're rare, happen in situations that are out of the ordinary for dd, and, i feel, are pretty developmentally appropriate. and i never "give in", unless offering food to a hungry child or leaving an overwhelming situation is "giving in".

any thoughts? of course, i'm second guessing myself. is this still ok for a 4yo? of course, if this behavior was frequent or if it inspired me to offer silly purchases or other things to keep her quiet, i would understand.
post #2 of 10
I think you're doing fine and it's completely acceptable for a 4 y/o to behave like that. I know when my nieces/nephews are in town to visit their schedule is all messed up and they are more cranky for it.
post #3 of 10
I have a 4 year old who is so well behaved that people comment in amazement about it (no, I don't take credit). Yet she too will absolutely melt down if she's too tired or too hungry or just overall pushed too far. Trust me, it's normal.

Your mother is entirely out of line. YOU are the mother. You do not need to accept her "help." In fact it is SHE who needs to back off.

Yes, people all have opinions about how kids are raised. I hear it all the time. One cousin lets her kid run all over her. A SIL is way too strict. Blah blah blah. I have these opinions myself, too, but short of abuse it's none of my business, and it's not your mother's business either.

I think your challenge is to gain more control over the situation, if at all possible. If you're visiting, can you rent a car? That means that if everyone is out late you can easily say "Hey, everyone, we're going to head back, DD needs to go to sleep." Feel free to feed her whenever she wants, even if dinner is planned in an hour let her eat when she needs to and she can just pick at a little something at dinner.

Yup, your mother will complain you're catering to her but you can remind her that you are the mother, you know your daughter's routines and needs, nobody benefits from a meltdown, and if she doesn't like it then you guys can just head out. YOU ARE THE MOTHER.
post #4 of 10
WOW -
your mother has a great deal of nerve! What you described is classic - no body is going to behave at their best when tired and hungry - as a behavioral specialist we call these things "setting events" - I think you did absolutely fantastic - but as a pp said in the future you may want to resist "going with the flow" if that's basically just going to set your daughter up for a melt down.
Nothing drives me crazier then people who set kids up and then get angry and punishing when they can no longer cope (yes, let's take a tired and hungry child to the store after endless errands and BLAME THEM when they start to fall apart)
As far as people judging your dd? who cares - anyone who has had a child knows that melt downs happen to the best of us (your mother has apparently just forgotten that?) I personally try very hard to refrain from ever judging parents in public - I don't know them or anything about the situation - I may get a bit sad if I see overly angry and threatening behavior by the parent - but the child's behavior - that is not for me to judge in the least....
Tell your mom thanks for the concern but you have the situation well under control - your mistake is not in how you are disciplining dd, just in allowing her to get into situations she cannot handle and what you really need is more support in making sure she is rested, fed, and not overstimulated....

good luck with that
post #5 of 10
I agree with the poster who said you need more control of the situation! Take your own car, carry snacks, and if your dad removes food from your child GIVE IT BACK or whip out a granola bar or something. No way would I let anyone withhold food from my child and then complain when she acts poorly.

My daughter is 4.5. I always carry snacks and I try to be realistic about what she can handle. She can not handle being out at 10.30 and it will ruin the next day as well, so we would avoid that as much as possible. I also carry my ipod loaded with her music so if we get stuck in a situation where she's just worn out and miserable and we can't home or to the car, I can sit down somewhere and let her lean on me and listen to some music while she has a snack and we do the best we can.

Your parents are expecting too much from your daughter. They are putting her in situations where she can't help but "fail."
post #6 of 10
Thread Starter 
thanks for all the awesome advice and affirmation that i'm not crazy. i should clarify that these situations were all COMPLETELY out of the ordinary for. we are never, and i repeat, never, out late with dd, who normally does not nap and goes to bed around 6:30pm. we never push her past that. but we were on vacation, had been at the beach all day, and she had napped for 3 hours. we were walking back to the beach house and i knew that the store was pushing it, but she so much wanted to get some fudge for our neighbors. not stopping would also have been a disaster. the thing that pushed her over the edge was my cousin being bought a toy. and my mom's problem was that i wouldn't let her physically remove dd. as for the food, dd HAD snacked all day, which was my dad's argument, but it was still dinner and denying food is just bullying in my book. my issue is that these situations were all very obviously totally out of the ordinary, and my mom is projecting her feelings of being made to feel like she was "bad" 50 years ago when her own mom died and she and her siblings ran wild for a bit. she's afraid dd will feel "bad". which is why i'm here to make sure she feels respected and help her learn how to deal with these things that happen occasionally.
post #7 of 10
I think your DD's behavior was completely normal for her age and the stress of the situation. You were handling everything fine and your parents were out of line.
post #8 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by smellyann82 View Post
her approach was to strongly communicate, sometimes physically (like pinching me, or at times spanking) that emotional outbursts are socially unacceptable. We had three of these incidents during this week.

<snip>

i received a letter from my mom two days ago stating grave concern that i allow my daughter to walk all over me, and that public opinion of dd is damaged by these outbursts. she told me that i need to accept her help and allow her to handle it, as these outbursts are out of control and completely inappropriate coming from a 4 yo.
The things in bold really stood out to me. Translation: Your mother was embarrassed and feels that it is your duty to prevent her from any further embarrassment. It sounds like your mother is very uncomfortable with emotional outbursts.

My dd is 6 and still has occasional tantrums. Mostly, when she's overwhelmed she whines. But we've been on vacation this last week too and she did have one meltdown at my parents' house. We'd been out late all of the previous nights, she'd had a stressful time at the fireworks (too loud, too close), and was just at the end of her rope. No one in my family batted an eye. I took her upstairs. She calmed down. Life went on.

Heck, my 9 year old was in tears at bedtime the other night because we'd forgotten his book at my parents' house and moved on to my in-laws'. If he hadn't been overtired and out of his element, he could handle reading a different book. This night it was not happening.

So, your dd's tantrums in these situations are very normal.

I agree with the previous posters. When you're with your parents, you need to be more in control of events. Take your own vehicle so you can leave at decent hour. Bring a bag of snacks. Tell your parents when they visit that your dd has to be in bed by 7:30 at the latest. Decline invitations that take you out later, or have your dh put her to bed while you socialize with your parents.

As for your mother: Personally, I'd ignore her. If you can't do that, then some version of "You got your chance when you raised me. It's my turn to make my mistakes." is what I would do. I would also tell her that if she's embarrassed by your dd's behavior, she always has the option of leaving so that no one will associate her with the tantruming child.
post #9 of 10
It sounds really difficult and as if taking more control will only partly relieve the situation. For example, when your DD was melting down about the toy being bought, you could have bought a toy for her (which I would have gladly done even though I hate buying junk toys for DD) but it sounds like the S had already hit the fan with your mother trying to physically remove her. In other words, you could have soothed your DD in any number of ways (buying a toy or leaving or whatever) but your mother was inserting herself into the situation to a point where it would be difficult for your DD to recover from it (pushing her past the point of no return).

I can only see two potential solutions. One is to pull out the mama bear. It won't be easy and it won't be instant, but this would be about asserting yourself as a mother to the point where your parents learn to back off. Can you picture someone else doing it to their parents? Can you picture you doing it to someone else's parents? Now, can you picture doing it to your parents? Make them back down. YOU will decide when your child eats. YOU will decide about discipline. Your mother is embarrassed? That's her problem and you won't sacrifice your child for her bizzarre (and unachievable) sense of propriety.

The other option is to severely limit contact.
post #10 of 10
The previous posters all have excellent suggestions and messages of empowerment, which is SO great to see. Another thought might be to possibly get your own place when visiting your folks. I realize that costs money and may be impossible, but it's an idea. After my most recent visit with my parents, I realized that from now on I should probably stay in a hotel when visiting, simply because my mom does the very sorts of things your mom does, and I do NOT agree with it. Furthermore, it just makes everything worse because my dd picks up on my tension, her tension, etc. and reacts badly to THAT as well...
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