Somehwat OT, maybe-SCARED of CPS! - Page 2

[greenmamapagan]

mammal_mama. I remember reading your story when I first came to mdc.

[mammal_mama]

Thanks greenmamapagan!

[accountclosed3]

mammal-mama, it is distressing to have CPS called.

i hope that your sister is no longer in your life. when i was threatened with a CPS call (by my ILs), i told them that they would never, ever see their grandson if they did that. i told them that we were within every legal right to raise our child in these ways, and our house was clean and tidy (and still is), and so on. seriously, there was no reason for them to call or to threaten to call.

she never called, but instead had the pastor talk to us. we do not belong to their church (or any) so it had no force to it really. and honestly, he felt the whole thing was silly when he came to our house, talked with us, and said that we sounded like really educated, loving parents. we even gave him all of the AP information that we gave ILs, and he, in turn, gave that to his pregnant daughter, who in turn is now AP herself. LOL *backfire*

anyway, no way would i have people around who called CPS.

[Arduinna]

Originally Posted by Piglet68

But I also believe that I live in a very wonderful part of the world. Canada is a much more liberal place than the US in many ways (which is why we returned here after starting a family in the US) and my province in particular is probably the most liberal in the country.

I suppose if I had good reason to believe my local government would step in and take away my kids just for doing things like unschooling or selective vaxing, I would seriously look at moving somewhere else. Easier said than done, I know.

Interesting assumption, but in the US many of the most conservative states are the ones with the least amount of restrictions on personal freedoms. I'll just mention TX and Arizona both of which have very little requirements to HS, heck in TX you don't even have to notify anyone, in Arizona you only notify once and you are covered until they reach 18. Unlike states like WA or NY for example.

[Arduinna]

Originally Posted by Oobleckmama

I had a physician neighbour probe more than I was comfortable with about my dks schooling, and I felt the need to mislead him about just how much formal stuff is going on, because I just didn't trust his motives for inquiring, iykwim. Okay, I didn't actually lie, I just said we HAVE a boxed curriculum, which we do, we just don't necessarily use it the way it was intended. I could have said, "oh, no, curriculum isn't necessary", but I didn't want to substantiate his concerns. Maybe in a few more years, I'll be brave enough to 'come out', but right now, I just feel there's too much at stake.

It's none of his business anyway, you don't own him any explanations about what you are doing. So even if you lied you have nothing to feel guilty for.

[mammal_mama]

Being liberal-leaning myself, I'd love to think that "liberal" always meant "live and let live." But my sister who called CPS on me is also very liberal.

I think there are liberals who mind their own business and liberals who think the children belong to "the village." It's such a wide spectrum really.

I have a conservative friend who I used to be very close to, but over the last couple of years she has felt a need to distance herself and her family from me and my family. She feels that the way I'm raising my kids runs counter to the way she's raising hers to believe that you reap what you sow.

She feels like I'm allowing my children to sow poison ivy and reap watermelons...and she wants her kids to see that whenever you sow poison ivy you reap poison ivy. LOL, I just feel the natural consequence to not cleaning your room is you have a messy room, not that you can't go to a friend's house or have friends over.

This friend would never call CPS on me though; she's just basically stepped away and left me to my own devices; I imagine she prays for me to see the light. I think when conservatives strongly disagree with someone's parenting practices, they're more likely to just distance themselves and pray (after maybe making some attempt to show the other parent where they're wrong).

Liberals like me are cool with disagreeing with someone and minding our own business; I might share my 2 cents with a parent who seems to want some help, but I don't believe in pushing it. Other liberals feel it's their social responsibility to call CPS.

But maybe liberals in Canada are different from liberals in the U.S. That might make for an interesting discussion.

[SundayCrepes]

I am an RN so I am a mandatory reporter. It is the law that I must call in any suspicions. More importantly, it is the moral thing to do.

It is not my job to determine if there is actual abuse/neglect going on. If I see a red flag I have to report it. End of story. I've done so twice.

The second call I made was on a good mom. I know she was a good mom. I would have allowed her to babysit my kids. However, she'd had it with her daughter one night, picked up a belt, hit her, and left a bruise on her leg. The next day the little girl came up to me and said, "See what my mom did to me."

I have no doubt this mom was remorseful and was unlikely to do anything like that ever again. However, that was not my judgement to make. I was obligated to call CPS. I tried to do the right thing by telling the mom I was calling. She was a mandatory reporter herself and knew my requirements. And still she was cold to me after that. You would have thought I was the one to hit her daughter by the way she treated me.

So even though it is painful to have CPS call on you, please be lenient with the people who make the calls. They are trying to do what is best for the kids. Maybe they don't understand. Maybe they're misinterpreting. But I would rather live in a society where people are watching out for kids than in a place where the little ones go with no protection.

[mammal_mama]

I understand that if you think a child's in danger, calling CPS is the morally right thing to do. It's possible that this is what my sister thought, because of her strong belief in vaxing, adult-led education, and hospital birth.

She may very well have thought my girls were "in danger," because they weren't getting regularly seen by professionals who'd been specially trained to detect learning disabilities or symptoms of rare but deadly childhood diseases.

In our case, though, I felt a need to cut things off because she has known me all my life, so I figured if she didn't believe in me by the time I was 44, it was a lost cause.

Now, I'm not stalking my sister or attempting to exact any kind of revenge on her, so I guess I'm pretty lenient. But, honestly, I think any parent would feel a need to cool things down with someone who'd hotlined them.

Still, I really admire you for doing the right thing by telling the mother ahead of time. My sister never warned me so I was totally taken by surprise; I'd have more respect for someone who was willing to look me in the eye and be honest about what she was about to do. I still wouldn't associate with this person anymore but I'd respect her.

[Arduinna]

Originally Posted by SundayCrepes

I am an RN so I am a mandatory reporter. It is the law that I must call in any suspicions. More importantly, it is the moral thing to do.

It is not my job to determine if there is actual abuse/neglect going on. If I see a red flag I have to report it. End of story. I've done so twice.

The second call I made was on a good mom. I know she was a good mom. I would have allowed her to babysit my kids. However, she'd had it with her daughter one night, picked up a belt, hit her, and left a bruise on her leg. The next day the little girl came up to me and said, "See what my mom did to me."

I have no doubt this mom was remorseful and was unlikely to do anything like that ever again. However, that was not my judgement to make. I was obligated to call CPS. I tried to do the right thing by telling the mom I was calling. She was a mandatory reporter herself and knew my requirements. And still she was cold to me after that. You would have thought I was the one to hit her daughter by the way she treated me.

So even though it is painful to have CPS call on you, please be lenient with the people who make the calls. They are trying to do what is best for the kids. Maybe they don't understand. Maybe they're misinterpreting. But I would rather live in a society where people are watching out for kids than in a place where the little ones go with no protection.

What does any of that have to do with USing though?



mammal mama I'd have cut my sister off too. People call CPS for the craziest stuff sometimes.

[campbellsoup]

I wanted to concur with the other posters who said UC was a more serious concern.

I have a good friend who had a UC with her second child. He was born healthy. She was recovering nicely. The next morning they realized her tear was worse than they had previously thought. So they calmly went into the hospital to have her stitched up. The entire family went with their healthy 10 1/2 lb baby.

Even though the doctor was not a jerk, CPS was called on them. A case worker came to their home to interview them. I was one of the references they had to fill out on their paperwork. The social worker called me and it was a short conversation. Anyhow..... everything worked out and nothing came of it (I think they had bigger fish to fry) but my friend was traumatized by the whole experience. The whole intervention stretched over a period of two weeks and I believe a moment did not go by when she was imagining the worst.... that her kids would be taken.

[mammal_mama]

Originally Posted by campbellsoup

Even though the doctor was not a jerk, CPS was called on them.

From what I've heard, it may not even have been the doctor or anyone directly involved with her care who made the call. Anyone in the hospital, even someone from housekeeping or dietary, may hear about a homebirth and think "Oh how awful! What a horrid risk!" and hotline the mother.

My midwife prepared me for this possibility before dd2 was born, though she said it was only a remote possibility since I probably wouldn't need to transfer, and even if I did it was unlikely that anything bad would happen. Of course you can always pretend you were planning to give birth in hospital but things happened "so fast."

Only if like me you also never saw a doctor during pregnancy, they might be suspicious. Thankfully I, like most mothers who give birth without interference, had absolutley no complications.

[accountclosed3]

my sister and my ILs are not mandatory reporters. I am not a mandatory reporter. I don't have a problem with mandatory reporters doing their job.

I do have a problem with my ILs threatening to call (or calling) because they don't like that we didn't circumcise our son and that we EC'd, which they determined would lead to a filthy, poop-filled house and a filthy, diseased penis. Of course, my house is cleaner than theirs, and obviously my son's penis is neither filthy nor diseased.

so, i would absolutely cut someone out for being an a-hole. if you feel you have grounds, as a mandatory reporter, to call, then do so. it would certainly be for something other than "you EC!"

[EllyMayMomma]

My husband is always a bit concerned that someone is going to call CPS on us. It crosses my mind as well even though I KNOW they don't want my kids. I worked as a child advocate and I totally agree - if the child is physically safe, has access to food, has access to medical care WHEN NEEDED and has access to education, the child will not be taken away. What most people don't realize is that (at least in my state) even if kids are removed, they are generally placed as fast as possible (same day often) with close family, like a grandparent. When kids are removed, there are more things going wrong than what we see from the outside. Most of the time, drugs are involved and just behind that is abuse generally alleged by one of the kids. CPS is ALWAYS about reunification between the family members, even in cases of physical abuse.

If your kids are happy, not so socially isolated that they are scared to leave the house, kept fed and taken for medical care when needed, say your prayers and know that you are doing a great job.

We unschool (homeschool to the world), DS 10 is just getting the hang of reading and could not tell you the times table if my life depended on it. We have medicade for the children and the last time he was at the dr was when he was 3 and broke his arm - the only time he had ever gone to the doc. (DD has been twice in 16 yrs and DS 7 has been 4-5 times due to illness - each gets what is needed)

3 weeks ago he broke the same arm. This time it involved a ER visit, doctor visit, surgery, another doctor visit and visits every 2 weeks for the next 8 weeks. No one has given us any grief at all. Everyone has been wonderful, supportive and believes that my kids are so smart because they all watched the procedures in the ER and office, asked questions, answered questions and were not to shy too interact.

[mammal_mama]

I should add that even though I feel it's extremely unlikely that CPS in my state would ever take a child without evidence of severe abuse or neglect, I do sometimes wonder, now that they have a "file" on us, if there might be some risk of them doing more than a quick assessment should they get another report on us in the future.

I don't think my children are at risk of getting taken, but I feel there could be some risk of a case being opened just to see if we might "benefit" from further intervention.

EllyMayMomma's comment about her son not being too shy made me think of a woman I know whose children are now grown, who told me that she was forced to place one of her sons in preschool at age 3 or 4, after the doctor got so concerned about his "extreme introversion" that CPS was contacted, and it was determined that this child could benefit from spending some time away from his mom so he wouldn't be so scared of strangers.

She said he remained extremely introverted in spite of all this intervention, but he is also extremely brilliant and I think he ended up getting some sort of engineering degree in Germany.

My girls are both very extraverted, but when we were seeing an Occupational Therapist to learn more about how to help dd2 with her sensory issues (she is sensory seeking), this OT seemed to think that one answer was to get her into more situations with other children.

She actually gets along just great with other children now, but this was after I'd spent several months doing a lot of avoidance of group situations with her. It was maturity and development of empathy that helped her, not being thrown into groups of kids.

I found a way to discontinue the OT while pretending to agree with many of her views, because I was honestly a little scared that she might be concerned that we were neglecting what she saw as dd's needs to have more interaction with other children, and more structured, preschool-type experiences where she could learn that she had to sit at the table and cut, or whatever the adult wanted her to do, until such time as the adult told her she could get up.

I asked her for a reading list, and explained that I felt she'd given me a lot of good information that I'd be able to continue with at home, and I mentioned the creative movement class she was taking at homeschool co-op, so she'd be assured that I was realizing the importantce of structure.