I have no idea what to do!

[mama to 2 girls]

I have no idea where to begin... I guess first of all how do you get your kids to listen?! It seems that whenever I ask my dd's (almost 4 and 5) that it seems to go in one ear and right out the other or the don't even hear me. SO frustrating..... lately most of the time it escalates into yelling. I am trying so hard to stay calm and not yell but lately my patience is wearing thin.

I have tried all their life to use gentle discipline but the last few months have been a nightmare. I will ask my oldest to get her shoes on before we go somewhere and I find her in her room playing or I will ask her to get dressed and I still find her in her nightgown. Now, I don't ask much of them at all, I am still cleaning up their messes for them and I guess that is where I went wrong. I have tried and tried getting them to clean up and then it gets to the point where dh comes home and starts yelling because the house is such a constant mess.

We are working thru a lot of anger issues at the moment and that isn't helping either. I think a lot of it has to do with living in such close quarters and constantly being on top of each other.

Sorry for just going all over the place but at the moment I just wish i could at least get my oldest to listen and actually follow thru when I ask her to do something.

[ssh]

If you lower your expectations you will not get angry and yell. You're DDs could be waiting until you yell to comply if they expect it to happen. We keep our shoes by the door, so 4.5 year old DD puts them on as we're leaving if she hasn't before then. I ask my DD to do things and if she does great, if she doesn't I just help her do it and then go on without a reaction. For cleaning the common areas we sometimes put everything into a canvas bag and then we can move it to DD's room to put away. Sometimes she helps, but it's easier to get her to help with cleaning chores that don't involve her toys. She'll dust, move dirty glasses and dishes to the sink, put clothes in the washer, help me find my keys or glasses, help put up groceries, put up food and spices while we're cooking and anything else that's not picking up toys. I also find summer a busier messier time and I'm not sure why but it just seems to be.

I think a big part of your problem is that your DH comes home and starts yelling because the house is such a constant mess. Being a small child is a messy profession, being the mom of three small children is a very busy, emotionally taxing and messy profession. Yelling at you and the kids doesn't make any of you tidier. I have trouble keeping up with things if I'm not happy and yelling at me would mean more mess and a depressed very upset wife. My DH compliments us when things are really tidy and if things are messy on a weekend will help clean or play outside with DD so I can.

[poppan]

With the clothes or shoes thing I just keep repeating that we can't go out until you have your clothes/shoes on, put your shoes on so we can go, here do you want mommy to help you put on your shoes, do you want to wear your crocs or your light up sneakers? And if nothing works and we are late I have been known to have them get into the car barefoot and I throw the shoes in the car and put them on later.

Generally speaking, for my kids at least, it seems to work if we can't move onto the next thing until X is done. Can't eat till you wash your hands, can't go to the park until you have your shoes on, I think of it as "natural consequences", it's not punishment at all, it's simply that you have to do X before Y can happen, pretty much just like in the rest of life. They don't always do as I ask immediately, but I've actually been getting more cooperation from them this way. My kids are about a year younger than yours though so I don't know if that age difference accounts for some of it too, maybe 3 y.o.'s are just less resistant.

[mom2grrls]

I have no idea where to begin... I guess first of all how do you get your kids to listen?! >>>>>

Barring hearing problems, kids are listening, they're just choosing to ignore your request When I talk to younger kids I get down to their level, touch them and once they're looking at me I speak. If they're not moving toward where I requested I start moving with them toward the mess, let's say. The girls may know they don't really "need" to move until you yell, KWIM?
As for say, shoes by the door, I have my kids leave one pair of shoes by the door that way they're right there on the way out. For cleaning up try making it a game, work alongside them or see if they might like to trade chores(yours for theirs).

[crowcaw]

My twin girls will be 5 in Sept. Getting them to do things is about action rather than speaking. Putting on shoes, I hand them a pair of shoes and say something like "time to go" then put mine. If they need a jacket or sweater, I hold it in front of them. Getting dressed is walking to their closets with them and telling them to pick out something, coming back in a couple of minutes to check on progress and if there isn't any, start handing them things. We only pick up toys once a day; after dinner and before getting a bedtime treat and I go with them and direct them still. A lot of this stuff is part of routines though and they kind of know what's expected when. I do clean up their craft messes and stuff like that as we go along through the day, and I don't expect them to help much. I might ask them to pick up crayons off the floor or something but to be honest, after doing stuff like that is the time they're most likely to wander off and play nicely together on their own so I don't want to disrupt it with coercing them into cleaning. Maybe my expectations are too low, but not trying to coax them with lots of words really keeps the volume down.

[SheSpeeds]

Originally Posted by crowcaw

Getting them to do things is about action rather than speaking. ...but not trying to coax them with lots of words really keeps the volume down.

Holy cow, I bet this is simple effective advice, sitting right beneath my nose. I have a similar issue with my 3.5 year old as of late.

I also felt the need to take the time and describe when I call his name for his attention, what I expect as recognition that he's listening. My husband is a man of few words, and sometimes it pisses me off that he doesn't acknowledge I've said anything, so I insist that my son not pick up this habit, and learn appropriate (minimal) verbal feedback when being spoken to.

[Shahbazin]

Originally Posted by mama to 2 girls

I have no idea where to begin... I guess first of all how do you get your kids to listen?! It seems that whenever I ask my dd's (almost 4 and 5) that it seems to go in one ear and right out the other or the don't even hear me. ....

I think that not repeating, guiding, & natural consequences seem to be the most useful strategies. My DDs are 3 & 4, & going out the door sounds like, "let's get our shoes (I walk to the closet with them), do you want shoes or sandals?, do you want help, or do you want to do it yourself?" They know shoes are useful, since we have to cross our front yard to where our car is parked, & we don't water the yard, so it's full of sand burrs.

Kids do listen; I do a lot of physical guiding to show them what I mean (go with them, help, do it myself as well) & I do mention reasons - they are coming to trust that I have good reasons for asking them to do things a certain way. I don't fight about clothes, other than bring extras along if I think they're going to be needed (like jackets & trousers). A lot of times my girls sleep in soft knit type clothes (pants & shirt, dress), so it doesn't matter if they wear that all day. Repeating stuff just teaches them not to listen the first 9 times if they know there'll be a 10th.

Cleaning up - I point out that daddy or I might accidentally suck up their stuff with the vacuum if they leave it on the floor, & we need to be able to clean & not trip on stuff, plus have things organized for a new day (or put away before we start something new so there'll be room). Leftover stuff they choose not to help put away (we do pick up together), will be regarded as stuff they don't want & will likely go "on vacation" (put away for a time, to come back later, or to be donated or sold if they don't ask about it after a while). They've already experienced the dog chewing up stuff that they've left out, so know you have to take care of things. And I do follow through on what I say, & promptly - I don't drag issues out & leave them guessing.

[D_McG]

The dawdling thing infuriates me. I had enough about 2 weeks ago. Sick of nagging, repeating myself (and yes, yelling). Now we have something to look forward to in the afternoon. I am VERY clear that if we don't leave the house in ___ minutes then we won't have time to do whatever the fun thing is. The first time I did this it was to watch a word world DVD. I said we'd have to return it if he dawdled. Well, he did so we stopped on our way and returned the DVD.

He was very upset but I was calm. He had chosen the consequence. Since then things have been so different. He listens now and I haven't had to follow through with any consequence, since. He's happy because we're not at each other's throats every morning. I'm happy because I feel heard and respected.

So my advice is to RAISE your expectations. They are choosing not to listen to you. Don't allow it! It's a bad habit. It seems to me that following reasonable requests becomes habit, too.

[mama to 2 girls]

Originally Posted by SheSpeeds

My husband is a man of few words, and sometimes it pisses me off that he doesn't acknowledge I've said anything, so I insist that my son not pick up this habit, and learn appropriate (minimal) verbal feedback when being spoken to.

I could have written your post about your dh! Mine is the same way and he actually admits it when I try to talk to him on the same subject later in the day!

Originally Posted by Shahbazin

I think that not repeating, guiding, & natural consequences seem to be the most useful strategies. My DDs are 3 & 4, & going out the door sounds like, "let's get our shoes (I walk to the closet with them), do you want shoes or sandals?, do you want help, or do you want to do it yourself?" They know shoes are useful, since we have to cross our front yard to where our car is parked, & we don't water the yard, so it's full of sand burrs.

Kids do listen; I do a lot of physical guiding to show them what I mean (go with them, help, do it myself as well) & I do mention reasons - they are coming to trust that I have good reasons for asking them to do things a certain way. I don't fight about clothes, other than bring extras along if I think they're going to be needed (like jackets & trousers). A lot of times my girls sleep in soft knit type clothes (pants & shirt, dress), so it doesn't matter if they wear that all day. Repeating stuff just teaches them not to listen the first 9 times if they know there'll be a 10th.

Cleaning up - I point out that daddy or I might accidentally suck up their stuff with the vacuum if they leave it on the floor, & we need to be able to clean & not trip on stuff, plus have things organized for a new day (or put away before we start something new so there'll be room). Leftover stuff they choose not to help put away (we do pick up together), will be regarded as stuff they don't want & will likely go "on vacation" (put away for a time, to come back later, or to be donated or sold if they don't ask about it after a while). They've already experienced the dog chewing up stuff that they've left out, so know you have to take care of things. And I do follow through on what I say, & promptly - I don't drag issues out & leave them guessing.

I already do all these things, that's what gets me so frustrated.

Originally Posted by D_McG

The dawdling thing infuriates me. I had enough about 2 weeks ago. Sick of nagging, repeating myself (and yes, yelling). Now we have something to look forward to in the afternoon. I am VERY clear that if we don't leave the house in ___ minutes then we won't have time to do whatever the fun thing is. The first time I did this it was to watch a word world DVD. I said we'd have to return it if he dawdled. Well, he did so we stopped on our way and returned the DVD.

He was very upset but I was calm. He had chosen the consequence. Since then things have been so different. He listens now and I haven't had to follow through with any consequence, since. He's happy because we're not at each other's throats every morning. I'm happy because I feel heard and respected.

So my advice is to RAISE your expectations. They are choosing not to listen to you. Don't allow it! It's a bad habit. It seems to me that following reasonable requests becomes habit, too.

YES! I think this is really what I need to do. I feel like if I lower my already low expectations that they are just going to grow into adults that are just going to expect everything to be given to them and they themselves will have low expectations. I don't want to raise a bunch of wild animals. At this point they already run around not a care in the world because all this time I have doing EVERYTHING for them, and when they do things that I gently explain why they shouldn't do it, they know that there won't be any consequences, other than a time out or talking about why they shouldn't do it again. I don't really expect anything out of my 2 yr old. ds obviously but I am trying to start with my almost 4 yr old because I don't if I can handle another one like my 5 yr. old.

And as far as picking up toys I always get down on the floor with them and show them (eventhough my 5 yr old knows) exactly where certain toys go....for example if they left all of their markers on the floor with all the caps off, I always either put the caps on and they put them away or vice versa, I let them choose which one they do. Or I ask them to do it and they say I am too tired and then I end up doing it all. ugh! i want them to grow into responsible adults....I'm not talking about giving them chores or anything like that! I just want them to understand that I am not their slave. I am still wiping my dd who will be 6yrs old in 2 mos....Also that mommy needs some time to herself here and there.....for instance right now I had to turn on the tv to be able to get on internet for 10 mins. I am starting to feel like my kids are nothing but huge inconveniences! I just want them to listen and have 10 mins to myself here and there during they day, even if it is to do a load of laundry. I feel I have done this though from the very start I have always been down on the floor with them and playing with them leaving everything else go, I never gave them a chance to learn how to entertain themselves.... Sorry I vented so much.

[cappuccinosmom]

For that age...supervision, consistency, and consequences. You cannot expect a child to respond like an adult, or think things through to motivate herself to do something like an adult. *I* want to get places on time, so when we need to leave, I just go get my shoes. A kid isn't thinking hours in advance, and probably not thinking "I'd better get my shoes or we'll miss this event!!"

So, for shoes--firstly I keep them in the front of the house where everybody can get them at the same time. That way the child doesn't have the opportunity to be distracted. I'm right there.

Messes--I would plan for several days worth of teaching, with your husband in on the plan (so he doesn't come home and yell). Aside from eating, potty, and bedtimes, be prepared to tell them "We are not moving on to the next fun thing until your toys are cleaned up. I will help you, but I need to see you get started." *Expect* that they will resist, and test you, and that it may take a week to get one mess cleaned up. That way you won't get frustrated after an hour and start yelling.

If you don't want to do that, you can also declutter and remove a lot of their opportunity to make a mess. Or to put their toys away in such a way that one activity needs to be boxed up before you can give them the box containing the other activity. It might be that the mess is just overwhelming to them.

Honestly, teaching children takes time, often years. I started quite early with mine. But it still took several years of me doing the supervising and consistency before I could trust them to do things on their own, and before they were consistently able and willing to pick up after themselves. We just got it over with earlier, but it wasn't any less work.

[mama to 2 girls]

We have a box that we put our shoes into before we walk any further into the house... there is a no shoes worn in the house rule, that has been in place for years, and I always ask them what shoes they want to wear, I get them out and lay them out on the floor and shoe my girls which pair is who's if they happen to be wearing matching shoes..... that is just one frustrating part.

I usually don't even ask them to clean up their room when it gets to the point of being overwhelming. I just don't say a word and do it myself.

I have a lot of work to do. The problem is I can be trying to show them and and tell them their shoes and then a couple words in, they will ask me a totally off the wall question that has nothing to do with what we are doing and then I have to tell and show them again, tell them that they need to put them on so we can leave or go outside and then half the time I will leave the living room to go get ds and I will come back and they are just sitting there talking. That's when I get frustrated.

That is whole different story, they constantly talk over each other and over me. I think I have just ignored a lot of little annoying problems and now they are all coming getting to the point of really frustrating me and making on the verge of blowing up. I think I am overwhelmed!

I think my next big hurdle is going to be getting dh on board. He has an awful temper (he knows never to lay a hand on them or else!!) he snaps and yells very quickly and says stuff that he should never say, so I guess before I try to tackle the kids I better get a handle on dh.

[crunchymomofmany]

I just wanted to chime in and say that the consistency and repetition is SO important. An example? I've been picking up plates and bowls all over the house for years. My oldest son, then 17, came home from a trip last summer and we were up together very early in the am. He was still up - I was getting up with the baby! He had something to eat and then when he went to bed - HE PICKED UP THE BOWL and took it with him to the kitchen. Nearly fell off the sofa, I did. Holy cow! I said, you do know how to do that! He looked at me like I was insane...but they do get it eventually. Oh my the repetition though. And I don't holler (a lot) or yell. It doesn't work. They tune it out and they feel bad - and then I feel bad. I've never really had trouble with the going out and putting shoes and coats on because I just clap my hands together and announce, "time to get going," and then help everyone who needs it with whatever they need. I try not to ask, though. I just say things like, "OK, you need your shoes, let's go get them." and then I trot off with the toddler to get her shoes. Or I say, "Jack, shoes, now, please." And he runs off and gets them.

I've had dawdlers though, and UGH! It can drive me insane. However, unless it's impeding the rest of our ability to do something - like get out the door - I rarely say anything. My middle son is 14 and some nights it takes him 2 hours to wash dishes. He just stands there, listening to his iPod, wandering around sometimes - drives me nuts! But then I think, well...I'm not doing the dishes, so what do I care how long it takes him? I mean, it's his evening is wrecking, not mine. I have noticed though, that he has gotten much faster lately, so maybe that thought is sinking in...slowly...

Just remember...deep breaths, evaluate how urgent the task is, help if it's very urgent and if not - let it go. They'll get to it - or not - and the walls won't come tumbling down if they don't!

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by crunchymomofmany

I just wanted to chime in and say that the consistency and repetition is SO important. An example? I've been picking up plates and bowls all over the house for years. My oldest son, then 17, came home from a trip last summer and we were up together very early in the am. He was still up - I was getting up with the baby! He had something to eat and then when he went to bed - HE PICKED UP THE BOWL and took it with him to the kitchen. Nearly fell off the sofa, I did. Holy cow! I said, you do know how to do that! He looked at me like I was insane...but they do get it eventually.

Are you seriously saying it took him 17 years to pick up a bowl after himself? That's insane!!! Don't you just find that unacceptable? My 4 year old knows to pick up his dishes after himself! He simply has no other option.

[crunchymomofmany]

I was kidding! Exaggerating a point for dramatic effect - I'm sorry that humor is lost on you...

[lolar2]

DS (3 yo) got a LOT neater after two or three playdates with friends who regularly picked up their toys. Peer pressure can be a wonderful thing, if you have such friends available to you.

[reezley]

Originally Posted by mama to 2 girls

I have a lot of work to do. The problem is I can be trying to show them and and tell them their shoes and then a couple words in, they will ask me a totally off the wall question that has nothing to do with what we are doing and then I have to tell and show them again, tell them that they need to put them on so we can leave or go outside and then half the time I will leave the living room to go get ds and I will come back and they are just sitting there talking. That's when I get frustrated.

That is whole different story, they constantly talk over each other and over me. I think I have just ignored a lot of little annoying problems and now they are all coming getting to the point of really frustrating me and making on the verge of blowing up. I think I am overwhelmed!

I think my next big hurdle is going to be getting dh on board. He has an awful temper (he knows never to lay a hand on them or else!!) he snaps and yells very quickly and says stuff that he should never say, so I guess before I try to tackle the kids I better get a handle on dh.

Sounds a lot like my house! I have 3.5 and 5.5 yo boys. No toddler though. But they talk and talk and sing and sing and I can't get a word in edgewise! They either literally don't hear me or just don't budge and keep going with whatever activity they're doing. I end up saying the same thing ("shoes on! Time to go!! SHOES!!" over and over. They often listen when I get all urgent and crazy with "c'mon c'mon c'mon we're going!!" Not exactly yelling... but not all that pleasant and polite.

Playful parenting also works sometimes. My kids tend to respond to songs- so if I sing the hokey-pokey tune with "You put your Foot - in, You put your other foot - in", that sometimes would do it.

As for talking over each other, cleaning up in general, that sort of thing. I have recently raised my expectations of those -the pp is right I think about this. I am not as willing anymore to sacrifice my own comfort and sanity as I used to be. Like, if they are trying to get me talk to them or help them when I'm in the bathroom.... I keep repeating "I'm in the bathroom now. I'll be out in a minute" instead of trying to carry on the conversation and being annoyed at the interruption. If they are both talking over each other or trying to tell me something, I kind of hold up my hands and give up and say "Two kids are talking at the same time" and they tend to stop and I have a second to say "You first, you next". I used to try to be polite to both and hear both, somehow. Too stressful!

For cleaning up, I try to not give up so quickly on them helping - I start cleaning and I keep saying I want help, choose a job, who wants to be the book guy? Who wants to be the put-the-blocks-in-the-box guy? Etc... I am trying to get them more in the habit of cleaning up - it's really my OWN bad habit that I've gotten into. I'm the one not good about cleaning, and I haven't gotten them in the habit.

3yo calling me, I have to go, HTH!

[mama to 2 girls]

Originally Posted by reezley

Sounds a lot like my house! I have 3.5 and 5.5 yo boys. No toddler though. But they talk and talk and sing and sing and I can't get a word in edgewise! They either literally don't hear me or just don't budge and keep going with whatever activity they're doing. I end up saying the same thing ("shoes on! Time to go!! SHOES!!" over and over. They often listen when I get all urgent and crazy with "c'mon c'mon c'mon we're going!!" Not exactly yelling... but not all that pleasant and polite.

Playful parenting also works sometimes. My kids tend to respond to songs- so if I sing the hokey-pokey tune with "You put your Foot - in, You put your other foot - in", that sometimes would do it.

As for talking over each other, cleaning up in general, that sort of thing. I have recently raised my expectations of those -the pp is right I think about this. I am not as willing anymore to sacrifice my own comfort and sanity as I used to be. Like, if they are trying to get me talk to them or help them when I'm in the bathroom.... I keep repeating "I'm in the bathroom now. I'll be out in a minute" instead of trying to carry on the conversation and being annoyed at the interruption. If they are both talking over each other or trying to tell me something, I kind of hold up my hands and give up and say "Two kids are talking at the same time" and they tend to stop and I have a second to say "You first, you next". I used to try to be polite to both and hear both, somehow. Too stressful!

For cleaning up, I try to not give up so quickly on them helping - I start cleaning and I keep saying I want help, choose a job, who wants to be the book guy? Who wants to be the put-the-blocks-in-the-box guy? Etc... I am trying to get them more in the habit of cleaning up - it's really my OWN bad habit that I've gotten into. I'm the one not good about cleaning, and I haven't gotten them in the habit.

3yo calling me, I have to go, HTH!

I am so glad someone else can relate!! They also try all the time to talk to me while I am in the bathroom! ugh. I will try the playful parenting when trying to get out of the house next time.

I kwym when you say it just gets to be to stressful to try to hear them both at the same time (especially when I have a 2 yr. old whining about something at the same time) I have also started just in the last couple of days with them putting my hands up and then putting my hand in front of whoever started talking second and it actually works! They stop talking and then I can politely say "you go first and then you can go after, that way I can actually understand and listen to what you two are trying to tell me"....before I was just getting frustrated trying to listen to both at the same time and then it just turned into me raising my voice and somebody crying because I didn't get all of what they were trying to tell me.

Thanks so much!