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No Cry Sleep Solution Support Thread

post #1 of 34
Thread Starter 
I am getting ready to do the logging and then create a plan and implement soon. I am sure I'm going to need some support during this process and I'm wondering if anyone else is interested in a support thread.

My baby is 3 months, co-sleeping. Easily goes to bed at 7pm, the wakes frequently after midnight and is nursed back to "sleep." After midnight or so he is also in perpetual motion, moving, flailing, kicking. We have a queen bed so this is getting to be way too much.
post #2 of 34
Ooh - me! *waves hand wildly*

I picked this (well, the "for Toddlers and Preschoolers" version) up from the library on Wednesday and haven't even really had the chance to start reading it b/c of DD's sleep! She is 2.5, and sleeps fine once she *is* asleep, but getting her there is always a fight, and I can't take it anymore. For a while she would go down for her nap easy, and I could somewhat handle dealing with her at night (I have never had much patience for bedtime, which probably doesn't help), but then we went on vacation a few timezones over, and ever since it takes me almost an hour to get her down for her nap, and usually at least 2 hours to get her to sleep at night. On bad days, I may spend 4-5 hours waiting for her to fall asleep! I need help!
post #3 of 34
We use NCSS with DD when he was around 14 m old. It took awhile but it worked well. Honestly, I you are trying to use it too soon because your babe is still really in the newborn/infant phase. I think it works much later closer to one. I know it is really hard right now but at the age they really need unrestricted milk. That extra sucking whether for milk or for comfort is key to maintaining a good milk supply.
post #4 of 34

I could use some support too!!

What exactly is the no cry sleep solution method? We're just starting sleep training for DD who just turned 1. She's been sleeping in our bed for the past few months (we let her sleep with us when she was sick, then she wouldn't sleep on her own after that!).

The method I'm trying is from the book "The Baby Whisperer" where you use the "PU/PD" (pick up / put down) method. Actually, since she's a year, we're just doing the put down part. When she stands up, you lay her back down & keep your hand on her back. That way she knows someone is there with her. I got her to sleep in about 25 minutes this way last night.

Then today, I was trying to put her down for a nap the same way. DH can't stand to hear her cry, so he came in & got her. So now we've just taught her that mom is the bad guy trying to put her down, and if she cries long enough, dad will recue her.

I know he isn't deliberately trying to undermine me, but I'm so frustrated. I'm trying to make him realize that she needs to learn how to sleep on her own. The other day our doctor even told us not to wait any longer to put her to bed on her own.

Thanks for letting me vent! Grrr...
post #5 of 34
I just got this book and I am starting today with my 6 month old. He takes forever to get to sleep at night, wakes frequently (at which point I nurse back to sleep, whether he needs it or not) and has gotten very restless in the past week or so, making bed sharing impossible. He doesn't ever sleep in his crib anymore, and I was thinking it would be lovely if he could take his naps there and start the night there at least, but I know in my heart that long-term bed sharing is not for us.

So before I even read the book, I had decided to try what Pantley calls "The Travelling Crib." Today we sidecarred the crib to the bed in the baby's room, and I hope to get him used to sleeping in it that way as we continue cosleeping for a while before we add the 4th side and move it away from the bed. He is enjoying playing in the bed in its new arrangement today. I am also attempting to introduce a "lovey." So far so good.

The one thing that I cannot figure out how to get him to follow is the bed time routines that I have been trying to impose for a while now. We put on pajamas, brush teeth, read stories, turn out the light, and nurse, but if it is before 10:30pm, he WILL NOT SLEEP. Even then, he usually needs me to walk around with him in the mei tai until he falls asleep. I tried to follow the advice of giving him an earlier bedtime (bad me, skipping ahead of the plan), but that just prolongs the time it takes to get him down (so if we start at 8:30, it takes 2 hours, and at 7:30 it takes 3, etc.). But we'll have to try even earlier. Also, today he has not taken long enough naps, and I was unable to get him back to sleep as soon as he woke up from the naps, so this does not bode well for tonight.

Yesterday was my first log day. He napped for 3h20m, spread out over 4 naps (rather than the 2 naps of at least 60 minutes each) and he slept for 8h45m with only 4 awakenings for him (he woke me up much more often with his restlessness--I am hoping that the separate mattresses of the sidecar arrangement will help with this). So he was only 1-2 hours short on getting the sleep he needed. Today he has only had 1.5 hours of naps and is CRANKY.
post #6 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stBabyAt39 View Post
What exactly is the no cry sleep solution method?
You would have to have to read the book because there is too much to explain. (It's not just one method). I wanted to read "Baby Whisperer" because I had heard good things about it, but then I read reviews online and found that it didn't seem to be supportive of attachment parenting. NCSS gives lots of options to work with whatever your particular situation is (co-sleeping, crib sleeping, or transitioning from one to the other as you and I seem to be doing).
post #7 of 34
Thread Starter 
Soooo just getting the logging going tonight. Had a set back with the heat wave her in the PNW...had to sleep in the guest room in the basement for a few days and things were too weird down there to log properly.

I'm chewing on how I feel about the sucking to sleep association. My baby is a pacifier user. I always nurse him down but replace with the pacifier to sleep. It is such a good soothing agent (as is nursing) I'm really unhappy to have to give it up.

Any thoughts out there?
post #8 of 34
So I finally got to read some of this, and I think it will help. Though, right now, DD hasn't had a nap in 3 days I don't think it has anything to do w/ NCSS, though (the first day was before I started reading/trying anything). During the week, DD & I do a lot (playground, Little Gym, beach, museum) in the mornings, but DH doesn't like to go out if he doesn't have to, and especially not with DD, so we mostly just sit around on the weekends. I did get her out for a walk early yesterday morning before it got too hot, but it's not as much activity as I try to have her get. On Friday, I think she would have napped, except she was in that about-to-fall-asleep phase right as we got home, so she woke up getting into the house & got her 2nd wind.

At the very least, we've been getting her to sleep earlier on the no-nap days, as opposed to previously when we'd try to do bedtime at usual time (worried if she went to sleep early, she'd be up early), at which point she was way over tired and would take just as long or longer to get to sleep. The past few nights, with starting bedtime early (6:30 the first day, she was asleep by 7:15. The second day she was much more tired, we kept her up as long as we could, reading & went for a walk in her stroller - already had a bath & in jammies. The second it looked she was trying to get a little active, I took her in her room and we read a last story. That was right at 6, she was out cold by 6:30. Wow. I literally just got chills reading over that - didn't really hit me until I wrote it out!!), she's been asleep inside an hour, which is soooo nice. Hopefully today, when we will be on a more normal schedule, she'll take a nap. She got just shy of 12 hrs last night, so a 1.5 or so hr nap would give her the recommended sleep time for the day. And yes, I know that some kids give up their naps by now, but given how tired she is in the afternoon, I *really* don't think she's ready for that. And even if she is, *I* am not ready for it, so at the very least she need to learn to hang out quietly in her room without me for an hour or so.

For a PP who asked what the method is, I don't know that I'd really call it a method (though I've not finished it yet, so maybe there will be some of that in the next part?). So far, there's just sort of general information that would help anyone who's having trouble sleeping (consistent sleep/wake times, a bedtime routine, keeping bed only for sleep, teaching kids how to fall asleep, etc.) and then the next section gives more targeted ideas for specific issues (night/early waking, bad dreams, dealing with daylight savings time, etc.).
post #9 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzylizzy View Post
I'm chewing on how I feel about the sucking to sleep association. My baby is a pacifier user. I always nurse him down but replace with the pacifier to sleep. It is such a good soothing agent (as is nursing) I'm really unhappy to have to give it up.

Any thoughts out there?
Honestly, at 3 months, I would try it, but also wouldn't push it yet - and this is coming from someone who is dying to get her toddler off of one! At around 9 mo (I think - it's been a while so I might be a little off) there was a window where I really think it would have been super easy to get DD off of it. We didn't, because DH wanted her to have it to help with teething & was really adamant about it, but if you just keep an eye on it, you may find a natural spot to sort of discourage it's use. As young as your lo is, though, I'm sure she still needs lots of sucking, so if she can't get it from the boob, it probably is helping her.
post #10 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzylizzy View Post

I'm chewing on how I feel about the sucking to sleep association. My baby is a pacifier user. I always nurse him down but replace with the pacifier to sleep. It is such a good soothing agent (as is nursing) I'm really unhappy to have to give it up.

Any thoughts out there?
First of all, I want to say that you don't have to do anything in this book that you feel is not right for your family, BUT pacifiers are addressed on page 125 in my copy and tips are given for how to make it easier for a baby to find them and self soothe on his own. At three months, yours is probably too young, but don't give it up now and maybe later it will be a good tool.

Okapi, I'm sorry you are dealing with no naps, but at least she got to sleep earlier and stayed asleep!

As for me, my DS usually gets the required 3-4 hours of naps, but he spreads them out over several naps instead of 2 long ones. Last night, he finally got his nap hours in before 10pm. That meant that despite getting him asleep at 8:30, he was up from 10-midnight. But I slept better with the side car arrangement. DS did all right, but still needs to warm up to it.
post #11 of 34
Can I join? I just read the book last night and I like a lot of what she is saying, but I have a couple questions I'm hoping someone can help me with. I rock DD to sleep for her naps and for bed, its actually fairly quick and I dont mind doing it, she takes 2-3 decent sized naps so thats not a problem either. Our biggest problem is she wakes up way to much at night and the only way to get her back to sleep is to nurse her! In the book it basically says to use the Pantley Pull Off method right? Is that the only suggestions she has for getting the baby to sleep longer? I think I missed something but can't figure out what can someone please help me!
post #12 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by penguintattoo View Post
Can I join? I just read the book last night and I like a lot of what she is saying, but I have a couple questions I'm hoping someone can help me with. I rock DD to sleep for her naps and for bed, its actually fairly quick and I dont mind doing it, she takes 2-3 decent sized naps so thats not a problem either. Our biggest problem is she wakes up way to much at night and the only way to get her back to sleep is to nurse her! In the book it basically says to use the Pantley Pull Off method right? Is that the only suggestions she has for getting the baby to sleep longer? I think I missed something but can't figure out what can someone please help me!
This is what I've got written down:
- Don't respond too quickly/wait until he wakes. It is true that for a while I was putting my breast in his mouth as soon as he woke me up because it was the easiest way to get him back to sleep. But I realized myself that he wasn't always awake when I was doing this (in fact, once I tried to feed him after I woke up from a bad dream and I couldn't figure out why he wouldn't latch until I realized that he was still asleep!) so it's best not to get into the habit of feeding when they don't need it. I do find that if I let him fully wake though, he will get worked up, and he is REALLY active now, so when he starts to stir now, I will put my hand on him to comfort him (twice now, I have found he felt cold, so I pulled him closer to snuggle, and he went back to sleep without fully waking and/or needing to nurse).
- Use key words and pat (see above)
- Use the Pantley Pull-off method as needed
- Scoot away from baby when he falls asleep (I'm not even sure where that suggestion came from, but I think it has something to do with removing the milk supply so he doesn't feel the need to wake up and nurse.

Besides that, other suggestions include making sure baby gets enough to eat during the day and making sure that the room is dark at night (a big issue this time of year--we had to install curtains) and bright during the day.

Does that help at all?
post #13 of 34
Yes thank you! I try to get her to eat often during the day but she is very distractable and somedays she only eats maybe 3 times during the day, I know thats not enough so I feel bad refusing her at night when she wakes. I probably am responding to soon though so I'll wait and see if she really needs me or not.
post #14 of 34
I wish for once he would go to sleep at the end of our bedtime routine. How is he supposed to make the connection that it leads to sleep if he never sleeps at the end of it?
post #15 of 34
Heads up, I'm sort of using this as a log, it may not be of interest to anyone else!

So last night and this morning were pretty much a study in what *not* to do...

I had a soccer game last night, but not until after 7, so we decided to go ahead and start the process around 5:30, hoping she would fall asleep before I left. She was definitely tired, and I think if I could have stayed another 10 minutes, she would have been fine (she had to go potty, and it seems like it's often easier for her to fall asleep right after that), but I had to leave, so DH came in and sat w/ her. He said she was almost asleep in 10-15 minutes, and then the dog started whining. So he lets the dog out, thinking he had to go, but instead, the dog just continued whining, this time right outside DD's window (The dog is old, and loosing hearing & vision, which I think freaks him out, and on top of that our house & outside area are both tiny, so there's no where to put him where he won't bother DD if he happens to have his freak out when we're trying to get her to sleep.) So then it's another 20 minutes after that before DD falls asleep. Still, by my reckoning, she was asleep by 8 (DH couldn't remember the exact time), which for her is pretty good.

Then this morning... we've decided we'll start getting up at 6, making noise, going about our day, and the couple times we've tried that, she's woken up soon after. This morning, she's wakes me up shuffling around at like 10 til 6. I think, "there's no way I can possibly get myself out of bed right now, I'll lay here and relax until the alarm goes off." Next thing I know, it's 7 (and the only reason I woke up then was b/c she woke up). So much for that. Lesson learned - the alarm has to go on the dresser away from the bed (I had turned it down and don't remember it at all - just too beat from playing last night). My plan had been to take her to the museum, but it doesn't open until 10, so we'd get downtown early and wander around, so by 10 she would be perfectly happy with 45 min or so of museum time and we could get back early for her nap (ideally, she'd fall asleep in the car on the way home). Instead, we don't get there until after it opens, and she hasn't already done a bunch of other stuff, so we spend an hour+ there, then she needs to eat, and by the time we get home, it's almost 1. So we had some quiet time with her in her bed and me sitting next to her in the chair, but no nap.

So I guess the plan now is to take her to the park until it's time for our CSA pickup (4:30 - need to see if there's a day we could pick up earlier), then by the time we get back from that, it'll be time to start the bedtime routine and she hopefully will be tired enough to go to sleep fairly easily. Then we can get the day started earlier tomorrow (playgoup is doing a beach day, so wearing her out shouldn't be a problem!), and go from there. Of course, I have another game Thursday night, but that will be the last one for the summer season, and in the fall they're during the day, so there won't be an issue there.

TL;DR: Last night/this morning didn't go so well, but I'm hoping we can get back on track tonight!
post #16 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by NSmomtobe View Post
I wish for once he would go to sleep at the end of our bedtime routine. How is he supposed to make the connection that it leads to sleep if he never sleeps at the end of it?
Success!

Although he is probably only down for a nap (it was another bad napping day) and will probably be up in less than an hour...
post #17 of 34
Thread Starter 
Congrats NSmomtobe!

Well....here are am finally logging and I think we hit a growth spurt and developmental milestone. Simon rolled over yesterday and has been nursing every 1-2 hours and sleeping almost non-stop inbetween. It's a little demoralizing to look at the log and see (nap, nurse, nap, nurse, sleep, wake, nurse, sleep, wake, nurse) every hour to 2. I know it's temporary but wouldn't you know it! I know month three is growth spurt time, and tomorrow could be totally different but still.


Also for all of you dealing with the light issue with the summer time...we invested in some black out shades from IKEA. Everyone is sleeping better and going to sleep faster and staying asleep longer. Highly recommended.
post #18 of 34
Apparently early to bed = early to rise for my kid. And apparently he only needs 8 hours of sleep/night? The good news is that he slept for a 5 hour stretch last night! Then when he woke at 6, I was able to keep him quiet and confined to the crib until 7, when I handed him off to DH to watch as he was getting ready for work. I went back to sleep until 8 (our usual waking time), when DH gave him back to me and I nursed us both to sleep until 8:45. Now it's 10:45 and I'm still trying to get him to take his 10:00 nap.
post #19 of 34
can I join? I haven't read thru the thread. but i'm a new mama to a 6mth old who just transitioned to the crib. I have a question. When I put my baby in the crib when he's tired he's pretty rowdy and rambunctious; he just crawls around, tries to climb the rails and fusses. If I try to walk away he breaks out into a wail. The only way he'll go to sleep is if he's fully asleep in my arms or if I wear him down in his ergo carrier or if I nurse him down (which I am eliminating with Pantley Pull Off). I've tried singing and rocking in the chair and baths at night but ultimately he's has to be asleep before I can lay him in the crib. So how do I get him to be relaxed enough to lay sleepy in his crib so he can fall asleep in it on his own.

I am starting my sleep log tonight.
post #20 of 34
Thread Starter 
We had a good night on Tuesday...early to bed, 3 wakings with right back to sleep. Last night....ugggh! He went to bed early but after about 2 am, he was up every hour thrashing around and wanting to nurse. The thrashing is what's getting to me. I soooo have to get on the cosleeper situation. Anyone else have a cosleeping thrasher?
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