Bedtimes

[triony]

What are your new babies bedtimes like?
I've been trying to get to a 9pm bedtime. Our "go to sleep" routine seems to take an hour. Regardless of when we start. And then he regularly without fail wakes up 30-40 minutes later and wants to nurse back to sleep. Which would be fine, if I hadn't just spent an hour of my life trying to get him to sleep. I know I'm supposed to enjoy these moments, but sometimes it's hard not to feel like I've just wasted over an hour of my life.
Feels like I'm not doing something right.

The most annoying part is that I can tell he wants to nurse to sleep to start with, but he often gets these weird... I don't knwo what to call it. He'll start moving kind of spastically while nursing. Like he can't help it. His eyes iwll start to shut, and then he'll kick really hard with his legs and wake himself up. Or the arms will start to go. If you restrain him (like swaddling) he actually gets really frustrated. Seems like maybe he wants to nurse to sleep but is full.

DH can't seem to put the baby to bed without the baby SCREAMING at some point. In fact, I just handed LO off to DH after 40 minutes of walking an jiggling, and he was zen, tired, and just about ot fall asleep. I now hear screaming. FRUSTRATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

[triony]

Argh. DH got the baby down, but 5min later he was awake again. Then I hear him take the baby in to the room where the diapers and changing table are and the screaming starts. a) WHY can't DH change the baby without hysterical screaming from the kid?
b) WHAT FREAKING TOOK HIM SO LONG?

I'm doing my best to let him handle it, especially since I am at the end of my rope right now. However, I honestly feel it is possible to do these things without the baby screaming his head off. DH seems to just accept that there will be screaming and not try very hard to keep it from happening.

[ivymae]

Well, we are much more laid back about the idea of bedtime for the baby. The big girls start "bedtime" with daddy at 7, and go down between 7:30 and 8, and then usually baby gets changed and nursed once it is quiet. She'll fall asleep in my arms, and then I'll transfer her to her bouncy chair, where she'll sleep for an hour or two. Then it's off to bed for both of us, and she'll nurse to back to sleep in bed. On a good night she'll be out until 3, when she'll nurse again and go back to sleep until 7am, but other nights it's a every hour nuzzle and nurse. I really don't think about her having a bedtime or routine yet, because it feels like swimming upsteam.

With my first I was very worried that she'd never fall asleep on her own, or that she was sleep deprived, or that she'd have all kinds of crazy sleep issues as an adult because I didn't 'each' her to sleep. By the third kid, i've just accepted that babies want to fall asleep in my arms, and they grow out of it sooner than I imagined. Daddy takes over bedtime once they are night weaned, and I count my years of nursing to sleep as an investment in never having to do bedtime again (mwahaha). Now I'm just happy when the older girls aren't fighting until 10pm.

Oh, and an interesting tidbit I've read a few places: a infant's sleep cycle is 45 minutes, and then a small waking period, and then back out. his waking up after 45 minutes is normal (and probably evolutionarily important, since ill babies do not do this), so the goal is to keep them in the dozing state during that waking period, so you don't have to go through the sleep routine again. Eventually the sleep cycle lengthens out (adults it is about 1.5 hours) and they learn to handle the waking period themselves. Can you nurse him in bed/in a dark quiet place when he wakes up? With some babies/older babies patting at this small waking is effective as well.

[OneWithTwo]

I gave up on a bedtime or a bedtime routine. If J falls asleep, I try to relax or sleep until he wakes again and I comfort him and feed him until he falls asleep again.

[Knitting Mama]

Cecilia typically nurses to sleep between 8 and 10 each night. Generally on the earlier side of that range, unless we've been out later than usual. Once she's asleep, she just chills on my lap until I'm ready to go to bed, generally 1/2 an hour to an hour later. During the night we nurse 1-2 times and then we're up between 5 and 7. It's generally scheduled but very loosely held. I don't try to set a specific bedtime at this point, but Cece does. When she's older I will definitely have a more set bedtime routine but for now I just follow her cues.

[mrsbabycakes]

I'm just going with the flow at this point. I usually nurse him to sleep around 10:30ish, he wakes up again anywhere from 3-5 and then again anywhere from 6-8. Some mornings he's up after the second feed. Others he'll sleep in til 9ish (and then I will too because, I figure, these days are numbered!!

[andlee]

I'm on the other side of the spectrum, I feel like DS loves his bedtime and gets extremely crabby without it. He wants to be asleep sometime between 7:00-8:00, I usually try to bathe him before this time. He wakes up at 12:30 for a quick nurse, and then sleeps until 3:30-4:30. I then nurse him again and bring him to our bed, and he sleeps until 7 or 8.

If I try to keep him up later, which I have, in hopes of him getting up later in the morning (which I know, 7 or 8 is already late but I'm a night owl), he screams for at least an hour, usually two, before going to sleep.

[sew_crafty_girl]

Sounds just like us. Bed is between 8:30-10 but it takes about an hour of nursing off and on before she goes to sleep sometimes she's thrashing around and fighting sleep, but this is more common with naps. I've given up on trying to put her to bed and stay up after. I just bring her to bed, nurse and read or surf until I'm tired enough for bed myself. Dh makes sure the other kids make it into bed.

[jenfl]

Another one in the firm bedtime camp.

DD goes to bed at 7pm, and that's become Sprout's bedtime, too. They both get baths together, then we read stories to DD in her room and tuck her in, then Sprout nurses in the rocking chair and falls asleep (or nearly so) and is in the crib by 7-7:15pm. He sometimes wakes after 30 minutes to nurse more, but goes back in the crib. Sleeps until midnight - 2am, then starts every 2 hour wakings until 6-7am.

Now, DD was NOT this predictable at this age. It's totally a personality thing.

[rhiOrion]

Well, it's moved generally earlier for us, but I think that's because I'm going to bed earlier since I've been back at work.

Around 9:30 or so we do the night time diaper change into a sposie. Then I hand her off to DH, who puts her in the Pikkolo and bounces on the exercise ball. I go get in bed and sleep comfortably. Around 10:00 he brings her to me, she usually wakes just a tiny bit, so we nurse for a minute and she falls back asleep. I fall back asleep, too. She sleeps with her head and back on my stomach, and her butt and legs on the bed. She usually has one good long stretch after this, but then wakes up and starts nursing pretty frequently after that.

She did sleep very well last night, though! She gets back into a good eating during the day/sleeping at night routine during the weekend, but then we just go and mess it back up during the weekdays.

I do wish I could put her to bed before I go to bed, that would be awesome.

[mom2happy]

From 9pm she thrashes about needing to nurse or suck on my finger and wrestling the whole time. She finally falls asleep around 10-11 and sleeps till about 5 am. I usually get a 6 hr stretch!!
The only things is- she barely naps all day for more that 30-45 min at a pop and she is a fussy little mess because she needs sleep.
I'd still rather have the sleep during the night though because then I can handle the day.
I just feel bad for my other kids because they dont get enough of me.

[Peace+Hope]

i don't try to schedule charlie, but i do follow his cues. he eats every two hrs when he's awake, so whichever night feeding is around 7/8, he eats, gets a doubler and sleep sack for nighttime, plays a little, and then gets tired. he fusses a little more than when he gets sleepy during the day, and needs to be on one of our shoulders and patted to sleep, which takes 15 - 45 mins.

i put him down near us or hold him til our bedtime, and sometimes he wakes up, sometimes he keeps sleeping. he stays asleep between feedings til 7 or 8 the next morning.

the wrinkle we have is he's not sleeping when we go out in the evenings any more. until a couple of weeks ago, he'd sleep just as well out as at home. now when we're out, he stays awake with catnaps, even as late as 10:30 or 11:00.

[snoopy5386]

Well.....two days ago I would have said Kelsey had a firm bedtime of between 8 and 9 pm depending on when her last nap ended. However yesterday and now today........now it is 10:30 pm. I've been trying to put her to bed for 2.5 hours and she just. won't. sleep. for more than 30 seconds!! I'm tired. I want to go to bed. Go to sleep child!!!

[triony]

You guys always help me feel better. The thing that still annoys me though is that DS is CRANKY. But WONT GO TO SLEEP. Phew. I feel better now.
Tonight was an easy night, thanks to DH's project in the basement. We turned on some tunes and I just walked around with him watched DH until DS fell asleep. Of course, it took so long that he then woke up 15 min later to eat. And then went back to bed. Which is ok, but there goes an hour and a half of my evening. Can you tell I'm a first time parent? I still expect to have time to myself....
Seriously, though. I love sleep. My DH's family are all huge sleepers. C'mon kid!

[jsh7809]

Originally Posted by triony

You guys always help me feel better. The thing that still annoys me though is that DS is CRANKY. But WONT GO TO SLEEP. Phew. I feel better now.
Tonight was an easy night, thanks to DH's project in the basement. We turned on some tunes and I just walked around with him watched DH until DS fell asleep. Of course, it took so long that he then woke up 15 min later to eat. And then went back to bed. Which is ok, but there goes an hour and a half of my evening. Can you tell I'm a first time parent? I still expect to have time to myself....
Seriously, though. I love sleep. My DH's family are all huge sleepers. C'mon kid!

Um, this is us, 100%! It actually just led to a big fight because I spent over half of my day lying down or walking with the kid trying to get her to nap (failing most of the time!) when she was tired... and then when it was bedtime I was just like, "I can't keep giving her my pinky or nipple to suck on and she won't fall asleep any other way and I dont' know where to start with bedtime! Aaargh!".

Finally I just swaddled her, put her in her crib, and left. She just lay there all chill and contented, then 15 minutes later made a little cry until DH came and gave her his pinky to suck on, and she fell asleep. Sigh. Sometimes it seems so easy and other times it's such a nightmare!
Of course that tends to correspond to how tired I am! I totally love sleep, and miss my sleep so much! This baby (knock on wood) is a pretty good sleeper once it's dark out, but during the day she just will not settle unless I"m there coaching her all of the way... UGH!

But for the record, we typically start bedtime around 7:30 (bath and story), then get her to sleep between 8:30 and 9, depending. Then she'll usually wake up at least once and need a little comforting back to sleep. But sometimes she's up and down till almost 11.
I go back and forth, wanting to do an even earlier bedtime (somehow) and letting her stay up until she's really really really tired. I think that once she's 4 months I"m going to try doing the no cry sleep sleep solution... we will see!

[treefrognyc]

Originally Posted by triony

...
The most annoying part is that I can tell he wants to nurse to sleep to start with, but he often gets these weird... I don't knwo what to call it. He'll start moving kind of spastically while nursing. Like he can't help it. His eyes iwll start to shut, and then he'll kick really hard with his legs and wake himself up. Or the arms will start to go. If you restrain him (like swaddling) he actually gets really frustrated. Seems like maybe he wants to nurse to sleep but is full....

Ben does the same thing. I found that it means he wants to be burped. That usually does the trick. Just give a burp session and go back to nursing. Ben sometimes keeps spitting the nipple out after that, which means he's really done. Then starts the dancing!

He also hates being swaddled because he loves to have his arms free. So, if he's really upset, we'll do a modified swaddle where the rest of him is bound, but he has his hands. We just hold them to us when bouncing/dancing him to sleep.

As for time, we shoot to have the last feed around 9pm. He usually sleeps sometime between then and 10pm.

[ann_of_loxley]

I have deff noticed that Hamish has a bit of a rythmn - but I have no set schedule/routine for him.

He just goes to bed when I do. If he is sleepy before I head off to bed, he will nurse to sleep or fall asleep in the sling. I will however, try and go to bed when I know he will happily nurse to sleep - instead of trying to go to bed when he is perfectly wide awake. I am tired, so I don't find this a problem at all - even if the 'bedtime' is 8 or 10! lol

DS1 also does not have a bedtime. DS1 goes to bed when either DH or I do. DH goes to bed last - so if DS1 is not tired yet, he will just go to bed when DH does then (if no one is up and all the lights are off, etc - whats the point of staying up? lol...Eventually he will be old enough to be up and be able to turn the lots off and take himeslf to bed without our help). If he is tired, he will go to bed when I do. If he is really really tired - then he will go to bed before - letting us know (so that we can brush teeth, hair, etc).

This works well for our family. But we also home educate so I have never had to worry about him getting enough sleep to be up really early to get ready for something like school. He gets plenty of sleep - as will DS2... in their own way and time!

[ann_of_loxley]

Yeah - Treefrog...I also find when Hamish does that, it means he has a bit of wind. I think hes trying to work it up and out himself but can't do it.
Hamish often likes to comfort suck and nurse himself to sleep - and we are getting pretty good at that! So that when he does want to comfort suck, he can without getting full up of milk! lol

I have also learned that sometimes when he does that - not always - but sometimes - he actually wants the fuller boob. Mostly since its been really really hot....I think he wants a bit more foremilk as a thirst quencher? I don't really know - but I am only guessing! The other day he did that and I thought - maybe hes just thirsty (he wasn't getting much from the one boob as I thought he only wanted to comfort suck to sleep)...so I offered him the fuller one and he settled on that one just fine instead!

[triony]

Ann and Treefrog - interesting thoughts. I'll have to try those ideas next time. Tonight when he started "the squiggle" I patted his bum and that stopped it. It started up again and I patted a little harder. Seemed to work tonight, but I've tried that before and no luck.

[Oliver's Mama]

Luckily, my toddler set up the baby's sleep routine for me! He's so darn noisy ALL DAY, which keeps the baby up mostly, so when ds1 falls asleep at 730, baby falls asleep literally a minute later. They take turns waking eachother up at about 730am. No matter what I do, the baby gets cranky at about 6 or 630pm. Ds1 did too, and we always struggled through that evening fussiness period. When ds2 started this too, I gave up on that and just decided we'd put him to bed at that point. I do a bath around 630, he squirms and fusses for a half hour while dh does ds1's bedtime, and is definately completely out by 730. I don't like the cry it out thing, especially for a little baby, but sometimes he's so fussy I literally can't hold on to him, so I set him down for a few minutes and sure enough, he falls asleep on his own. I still can't put them in the same room because ds1 has no clue about volume control and wakes the baby even from opposite ends of the house.
I know some people are against strict schedules, but it has definately helped my mental health. dh's too. we both desperately need time without the kids so we can, you know, eat and pee without a little one screaming in our faces! 730-1030 pm is my only time to do dishes, laundry, clean, etc, and dh has to do a lot of his work from home, and needs quiet for it. I usually head to bed around midnight, which makes the baby stir, so I get him up for a feed. He'll then get up at 4, 6, and 730 for the morning.