how afraid of Pertussis should I be?

[dakotablue]

I haven't gotten Ds any shots since the first visit in which I only did two (instead of the 5 they wanted) He cried a lot (which ped says could just be muscle pain from injection shot but whatever) Anyway I wasn't planning on anymore shots.

I now am pregnant and I don't know (but so far knock on wood its been good) how my milk supply will hold up. And he will just be 1 in Oct. How afraid of Pertussis should I be? its very very common and can make babies very very sick, but is the danger the same as they are now starting to spout off about chicken pox being SO dangerous? or is it real?

I guess I was just banking on nursing him through his first 3 winters and now I'm a little nervous...

[Delicateflower]

The danger of pertussis is very real. It's all over the place, and as a young walker who's out touching things and touching his mouth and interacting with people he's at the highest risk of getting it, and of bringing it home to your newborn, who is more likely to be hospitalised or die from it than the older child is.

You can get him the DTaP now and you can get the adult TDaP as soon as the baby's born, and that will help protect the newborn until he's old enough for his first shots.

[Marnica]

.....or you can concentrate on keeping everyone's immune system strong. Getting your 1 year old the Dtap won't do diddly to protect your new baby since the vaccine does not prevent transmission. This has been talked about here at length and in dept on these boards before. You can do a search and read numerous threads for more information.

Yes WC can be dangerous to a newborn. However getting your older son vaccinated (and yourselves for that matter) will do little to prevent transmission of the bacteria. What it may do is prevent your older son from getting a severe case and have it far more likely that he would be misdiagnosed since he would have been vaccinated.

[Pirogi]

Originally Posted by Marnica

.....or you can concentrate on keeping everyone's immune system strong. Getting your 1 year old the Dtap won't do diddly to protect your new baby since the vaccine does not prevent transmission. This has been talked about here at length and in dept on these boards before. You can do a search and read numerous threads for more information.

Yes WC can be dangerous to a newborn. However getting your older son vaccinated (and yourselves for that matter) will do little to prevent transmission of the bacteria. What it may do is prevent your older son from getting a severe case and have it far more likely that he would be misdiagnosed since he would have been vaccinated.

Does breastfeeding offer some anything in the way of immune support for the newborn?

ETA: I will have an unvaxed 3.5-year-old around my newborn. We are still nursing now, but we are in the same boat as you with possible drying up. Still, I am not too worried. I mean, WC is EVERYWHERE, and how many babies have complications from it, vs how many are exposed (since the vax doesn't prevent transmission)?

[dakotablue]

Honestly I wasn't so much worried about the newborn as much as DS being so young over the winter without BF...though now I am kinda worried about the newborn.

I wasn't sure if it would better to lower the severity of wc in DS or not vax...

[heathergirl67]

I would absolutely get him vaccinated if I were you. It's awful! Here's a video of a baby with pertussis (warning: it's hard to watch)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuvn-...eature=related

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...00040-0048.pdf

It does lower the severity in the person who recieves the shots. For most, if they do get it after their shots they have a much less severe case of it.

[ma2two]

No need to be afraid if you have sodium ascorbate on hand and know how to use it. http://mothering.com/discussions/sho....php?t=1219727 be sure to read Marnica's dosing information.

My 3 year old and I had pertussis. It was very annoying. Then I read about sodium ascorbate, and even though it was late in the illness, it did make a big difference. If you start it at the very beginning, it works a lot better.

[Emmeline II]

Pertussis: Yo-Yo Stats
Read more



Pertussis is endemic, it is always present with a cyclical pattern of occurrence, peaks every 2-5 years. The vaccine does not prevent infection or transmission but may result in a particular person having less severe clinical symptoms--maybe; it isn't a guarantee or even a sure bet. Infants under six months are most at risk from pertusiss because they cannot effectively expel the mucous and there is a greater danger of it getting into their lungs and causing pneumonia. I don't have video but I have pages of posts saved regarding vaccine induced encephalitis: high pitched prolonged crying (that can last hours or days) due to post vaccination brain swelling.

I had Pertussis while pregnant and fully vaxed; my 2yo (vaxed to 12mo) nursing ds had it as well, though my case was more severe. I did not vax my second child at all; I had sodium ascorbate on hand and used it to treat every cough and sniffle.

Also, though your milk may slow to a dribble temporarily, you'll start produced colostrum if he continues to nurse and you can tandem when the baby comes--I used to take naps on the recliner while nursing both my children to sleep. ("Adventures in Tandam Nursing" is a great book).

[Angela512]

I would just keep nursing him, making sure he's eating healthy foods the rest of the time and skip the vaccine altogether. Pertussis is worse for young babies (under 1 year) because of the inability to expell the mucous, but also because of a higher chance of the airways becoming inflammed and closing up, causing a lack of oxygen.

Once your child hits 1 year + of age, the risks go down dramatically, although it is still uncomfortable and no fun to watch, the risks are definitely not what they would be for an infant.

Add to that treating coughs, etc. with Sodium Ascorbate and you don't need the vax (and despite what a lot of sites say, it is not an effective vaccine, it does not prevent transmission and it does not even guarantee that your child will still not come down with a more severe case).

[ma2two]

I agree with Angela512, except that 1 year isn't really the cut-off time for pertussis to be potentially dangerous to babies. It is actually 6 months, and especially 3 months. So once babies are past 3 months, they are out of the main danger zone, and especially by 6 months.

The vast majority of parents and doctors don't know about treating infants with sodium ascorbate when they have pertussis. So the death rates are based on infants who are not treated with it.

[heathergirl67]

I've heard of sodium ascorbate as a treatment for pertussis a lot around here. Would anyone mind linking me to the studies? Thanks in advance!

[Angela512]

http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorba...-p1884-eng.htm

You may be interested in the book Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases, & Toxins by Thomas E. Levy, MD, JD. Not widely available, anymore, but you can probably find it at your local library.

[MamatoPeach]

Why is the NOW brand of SA better than other brands of Vit C? Are we in a peak year for WC?

[chaoticzenmom]

I have a 1and a half y/o who has never been vaccinated, so I do think about pertussis when I see it on the news. He's got an amazing immune system though. When we all got swine flu last year, he had a slight fever, when he gets a stomache virus, he recovers quickly. Never has had an ear infection, his colds last only a few days (he's had 2).

As far as HOW scared you should be? I wouldn't be. I'd pay attention to where we are (keep away from places where people go when they're sick like the pharmacy and dr's office), who's around, I'd feed the kids well (lots of fruits, veggies and yogurts, etc.) Keep sugars very low.

If you were really worried and you don't have a family history of vaccination reactions, then you could go get just the dtap and nothing else. You could do one vaccine and skip the boosters. That's what my naturapath wanted for me to do with my 3rd child when he was a baby. She said that vaccines before 6 mo were useless as the baby can't have a proper response and boosters were usually unnecessary for 80% of the population. He got the dtap at 9 mo. He did scream for 2 days straight though. That naturapath was concerned about pertussis. My new naturapath is not very concerned with it, although it is the only vaccination her son got (also at around 9 mo) she said she wouldn't do it again as her son also had a bad reaction to it. I didn't ask her what the reaction was.

[ma2two]

Originally Posted by MamatoPeach

Why is the NOW brand of SA better than other brands of Vit C? Are we in a peak year for WC?

I hadn't heard the NOW brand was better. We use the NutriBiotic brand, and are quite happy with it. Remember, it is the sodium ascorbate form of vitamin C.

From what I've read, pertussis cycles about every 5 years, and we seem to be in the cycle right now. There was pertussis in my area about 5 years ago, so it seems to be true in my experience.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by MamatoPeach

Why is the NOW brand of SA better than other brands of Vit C? Are we in a peak year for WC?

The NOW brand USED to be my brand of choice but I have recently found out that thier SA is sourced from genetically modified corn. NOT ok with me!!!

I will be switching from NOW to this brand which is sourced from NOn-GMO beets http://www.vitapurity.com/index_c.html

[MamatoPeach]

Can you find it in healthfood stores? Do you think a croupy cough could be pertussis?

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by MamatoPeach

Can you find it in healthfood stores? Do you think a croupy cough could be pertussis?

SA is hard to find in stores. Most people get theirs online. A croupy cough (sounds like a seal barking?) is not likely to be pertsussis. A croupy cough will also respond to steam and/or cold air and will go away in a week or so. Wc would likely be aggravated by the above and will last a lot longer.

[MamatoPeach]

Originally Posted by Marnica

SA is hard to find in stores. Most people get theirs online. A croupy cough (sounds like a seal barking?) is not likely to be pertsussis. A croupy cough will also respond to steam and/or cold air and will go away in a week or so. Wc would likely be aggravated by the above and will last a lot longer.

Thanks!

[MamatoPeach]

Oh wait...one more question. What form is the best? Powder, capsules, or crystals?