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Please help! My 5YO is driving me crazy... - Page 2

post #21 of 32
It sounds like you told him to be quiet while you were on the phone and to go to/stay in bed, he did neither of those things, and there was no particular consequence. I understand the need to compose yourself instead of getting into a fight with him, but ultimately I personally think that if I am going to say "I expect X" then I am going to follow through on it and expect that behavior. If I don't really totally expect it, I don't say it.

So for the room thing, I'd take him by the hand and bring him back there, and/or block him with your body and walk him back to his room. I suppose picking him up is an option if he doesn't fight you about it. But if he does then don't do that. Both for the phone thing and for the going to bed at night. I think you CAN keep him in his room if you really want to and expect to. And if you don't, then I don't think you should tell him to do it.

Have you ever heard of Virtues parenting? It is about talking about virtues with kids and calling them to the virtues - like using their respect or gentleness or courage (or whatever the situation calls for). I really like it and think it might give you the words/tools to use when dealing with defiance like you've described.

Tjej

ETA: I'm not trying to be mean about how you handled him today. I get it and have done the same thing when I have been absolutely and utterly spent. Hopefully you are not this exhausted every day - if you are, maybe YOU need the earlier bedtime . If you are consistently not too exhausted to discipline him, then once in a while won't undo all the work you have done, but if you usually don't have the energy or emotional reserves to do it then you need to find a way to nurture yourself so you have more to give/use.
post #22 of 32
What is his sleeptime(the time he actually falls asleep) and his wake up time? I've been reading Sleepless in America and for a 5 y/o she recommends 12 hrs(including nap). Perhaps he needs an earlier bedtime(at 8 he may have already had his "sleepy" window and now is overtired). Perhaps he needs help settling down once in bed-massage, rubbing the back, soft music, etc. Maybe he just wants someone to sit with him while he falls asleep. Does he get caffeine(chocolate, drinks) within a few hours of bed? How much TV does he watch, does he play video games, computer?
post #23 of 32
Thread Starter 
Tjej – Thanks for your response! And I didn’t think you were trying to be mean at all, by the way. You described exactly what happened, & I know that I didn’t handle things well b/c there was no consequence for his actions, but that is the problem—I don’t know how to “enforce” the request/consequence. So therfore, there is essentially no consequence to his actions. Not only did he not quiet down when I asked him to when I was on the phone, but he got even more defiant, made faces at me, etc., which just really upsets me when he is so disrespectful like that. And then he wouldn’t go to his room when I asked him to, but... I don’t know how to “make” him go unless I physically carry him up there, & he’s just too heavy for me to pick up & carry up the stairs. And I’m sure there would be kicking & more screaming en route to his room (DH has carried him to his room in such circumstances, & that’s usually what happens). So… what do I do? And how do I keep him in his room at bedtime, short of putting a lock on his door on the outside, which just seems cruel (& probably unsafe). I’m failing miserably here, I know. And yes, you are probably right--I need an earlier bedtime too! I am spent, & that's not helping! But alas, these few short hours when DS1 & DS2 are actually asleep are often the only time I get anything done....

mom2grrls – Up until a few weeks ago, his sleeptime was about 8:00 p.m. & his wake-up time was 7:00, which seemed to be fine. (He hasn’t taken a regular afternoon nap since he was about 4.) But lately, his sleeptime has been more like 9:00 (w/ those few nights this past week going ‘til 9:30 & even 10:30!! ), but his wakeup time is still around 7; sometimes he’ll sleep in ‘til around 7:30. I don’t know if it’s b/c he’s out of school now—maybe he’s just not as tired? But he still has morning activities 2 days a week, & preschool was only 3 days a week, so I don’t know. Is it possible he needs an even earlier bedtime?! We’ve tried bedtime massages, bedtime yoga/stretches, but these don’t seem to help him fall asleep any earlier. He doesn’t get any caffeine before bed, or ever really, unless he has a square of chocolate every so often. He’s allowed to watch TV in the morning at breakfast, again around lunchtime (1 or 2 shows) & then around 5:00 he likes to watch Curious George. This TV “schedule,” of course, only really happens on days we’re home all day, which is rare. We don’t have the TV on after 6:00 p.m. We actually cut back on his TV this past week, wondering if that might help. I had him outside b/f dinner instead & no TV at breakfast, so he watched only an hour or so around lunchtime. No difference I could see, except when he was outside too late in the day, it seemed to wind him up even more for bedtime those nights. He doesn’t play video games, & he doesn’t really get any computer time—that happens once in a great while.

I just ordered "Sleepless in America" from amazon.com.
post #24 of 32
mandee, regarding this quote of yours: "I don't know how to gently handle him when he outright refuses to go to bed... or when he refuses to go to his room to calm down, as in the previous example. I feel like he’s the “boss” --I just can’t get him to cooperate. I don't get it"

This has been a big problem for us, for a long time. My son (now age 7) comes to life at night, getting very creative and wanting to draw and play until the wee hours. AND he is very social and loves to be with us, and constantly wants to interrupt us. And it's been very painful because I need to get my work done or we don't earn as much money....so I NEED the peace-time at night. For work AND for sanity. I have shed many tears over the frustration of this.

I am sure that his being 7 now is a big factor, but I wanted to share this idea that I recently tried, which seems to be helping. My son is a "Visual" just like me, so I decided to make a chart where I could plot his bedtimes, so he could SEE how late they consistently are. And also see them going DOWN (i.e. earlier) as he has success. The other thing I did was stop playing Kitty Island. It's an imaginative type of play that he wants me to do every day but which bores the socks off me. I decided one day that if he is going to steal my nights by interrupting me every 10 minutes until 11:30, then there's no way we play Kitty Island.

So now he watches the chart (where I have every 15 minutes marked off like a day planner down the left hand side, and across the top are the days of the week), and each night I plot on the chart two things: (1) when he went to bed & turned out the lights and (2) when he put the head on the pillow to sleep. (those are two different times because he often plays in bed after lights-out. I don't care as long as he is QUIET and doesn't interrupt.) He's been eagerly following his progress on the chart and he can see his "X" (marks the spot) going down (i.e. earlier) on recent nights. He asks me how many more nights of progress before he gets Kitty Island back. So he's working toward a goal now and through the chart he can SEE his progress...the information is not just something that lives in Mommy's head. :-)

There are so many other things in your post that I could identify with and would like to respond to, but I don't have the time right now. I agree that there has been some really helpful advice given on this thread, though!
post #25 of 32
This is a bit long and rambly, but...

Well, if taking his hand and walking him to wherever doesn't work, and if body blocking him somewhere doesn't work (herding), does he flail and hit or is he a wet noodle? I guess I'd pick a spot closer than his room - a chair in the kitchen or something - get him to go there to gain self control, then talk about the incident. We have a bench in our main living room that we bring the kids to to calm down. We usually sit near them/across from them (sometimes even with/holding them - that's my DS that needs that sometimes if he's really undone). Once they calm down we talk about the problem. I try to keep it short. I think lately I've gotten too wordy and it gets tuned out, so I'm working on it again. We do eye contact, short sentences - always trying to end with the idea of what the good behavior/choice is. Then we sometimes go back and repeat the situation with my child choosing the good choice. We usually end our little talk with a hug too. If it is a big enough deal to go to the bench there is often some sort of apology that happens too.

On more thought, if it doesn't work to move him, could you wait super patiently (kind of zoned out even) just wherever he is and wait for him to calm down? Telling him you are waiting for him to calm down so you can talk?

With a kid I minded during the school year I found that waiting him out was hard the first time or two, but then it was fine and he knew that I would just wait until he did the right thing.

Do you point out to your DS that he is being rude to you? I do that with kids if they are making faces and being purposefully mean. I am matter of fact about it - "you are choosing rude behavior. I prefer to be treated with respect. Can you treat me with respect right now? Yes? Thank you. No? Then we need to be separate until you can. I am going to go do laundry. Please come tell me when you are ready to treat me respectfully so we can (do whatever is next on the daily schedule)."

For the bedtime stuff, with my DD what has helped a lot (it isn't perfect, but it has been much better again recently) is that we expect her to stay in bed, but she can have her bedside (dim) light on and play with a few things there until she is ready to go to sleep. Maybe you can talk with your DS when it ISN'T bedtime and tell him the problems you see: he needs X amount of sleep, staying up late he doesn't get it. And/or YOU need him quietly in his room by X time, how can we make that work? And have an idea or two - maybe even brainstorm crazy ideas with him and then actually try to come up with something useful. Could you sit in his doorway reading yourself a book? Sit in his room resting?

Oh, another book I thought of is Raising Resilient Children - that is probably my favorite book about relationships/parenting/conflict resolution. It is a bit repetitive, but I found it to be really insightful for me. It helped me realize a lot of what I bring to parenting in expectations/fears and how it affects how I treat my kids. It also helped me think about ways to work WITH my children and their temperments and not to fight who they are - how to see past the issues and try to work with the kids toward a solution.

Tjej
post #26 of 32
Thread Starter 
Hi, ladies! Sorry I haven't responded to my own thread in a while; we were out of town. Anyway... NellieKatz, thanks for your reply! It seems you've been dealing w/ similar bedtime struggles w/ your DS as well. I like the idea of the chart. My DS is more verbal than visual though (like myself), so I wonder if the chart might work as more of a "word" chart? He is VERY keen on reading these days & is always asking me what this word says & that word says.... He's also very interested in time--what time it is, what time of day different things happen, etc.--so maybe a combination of the 2 would work for him? Actually, I probably wouldn't have to tweak your chart much for DS. I'd just need to think of the goal he'd need to work toward.... HA! Kitty Island sounds like as much fun as when DS wants me to play "Toy Story" w/ him! Playing involves me having to say word for word what he wants me to say. He gets very bossy! HA! Thank you for the idea!

Tjej -- Thank you so much for giving me some more practical tips for dealing w/ DS! The advice you gave me about reacting to DS's rude behavior was particularly helpful. I do often tell him when he's being rude; the only problem is that he will throw it right back at me when I am *not* being rude at all but just am asking him to get ready to go out/wash up for dinner/etc. "Mommy, that's rude!" I'm not sure if he understands what "rude" is--he seems to equate it w/ just "things he doesn't like."

I have to share w/ you all that DS's bedtime struggles have been getting a little easier lately, but I think it's mainly b/c we've come back from traveling & he's just been WORN OUT! So he hasn't really given us a hard time about going to bed because he is in fact quite tired! I'm hoping the momentum we started here continues.... Before we went away on our trip though, DH threatened DS w/ no TV the following day if he came out of his room again at bedtime, & that actually worked--for a few more nights in a row too! I'm not a huge fan of using "threats" to get DS to go to bed, but at that point, I was going w/ whatever worked. Now that he seems to be not as sleep-deprived, I've noticed his behavior in general has improved a little as well. Both DH & I made a point (putting into practice a lot of the great advice I received here!) to praise his good behavior. He said to me several times over the past few days, "I've been really good & nice to you, right, mom?" Yes, yes you have, DS! And he's noticed (well, we've tried to point out to him) that we do more things together when he's behaving better--outings don't get cut short, we're able to go to a special place for lunch, we have time to read him a longer book at bedtime because he didn't throw a fit before, etc. We have many more miles to go, so to speak, before we're back on track here, but I feel like we've made some improvements in the past week or two. Thanks again, moms, for all of your help & advice! I will check back in again when I can....
post #27 of 32
We're dealing with similar issues with my just turned 5 year old, but we've had problems with him since he was about 3. It's very, very tiring.

I also am utterly baffled what to do when he absolutely refuses to listen to me. A big one is food. He is ALWAYS hungry (except at supper time, of course) and eats pretty much constantly from the minute he gets up (no clue where he puts it, he isn't even 40lbs yet). I try to get him to spread out when he eats a bit, drink more, wait until supper, not eat specific things so he doesn't eat everything in sight. I quite often tell him not to eat something, only to find him hiding in the kitchen eating it. He also eats other people's special treats, even when he has his own.

He will just flat out refuse to be disciplined. If I send him to his room for hitting, I have to stand there & hold the door knob. Which feels so *wrong*. And isn't helping, at all. The hiiting is just getting worse & worse. He's so abusive to his older brother (although some of things ds1 says to him, I think I'd hit ds1 if I were 5, too). Yesterday we were shopping & he kicked ds1 in the genitals for no apparent reason & in the leg when ds2 was mad at me.

Sorry to hijack your thread, just at my wits end here.
post #28 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjej View Post
It sounds like you told him to be quiet while you were on the phone and to go to/stay in bed, he did neither of those things, and there was no particular consequence. I understand the need to compose yourself instead of getting into a fight with him, but ultimately I personally think that if I am going to say "I expect X" then I am going to follow through on it and expect that behavior. If I don't really totally expect it, I don't say it.

So for the room thing, I'd take him by the hand and bring him back there, and/or block him with your body and walk him back to his room. I suppose picking him up is an option if he doesn't fight you about it. But if he does then don't do that. Both for the phone thing and for the going to bed at night. I think you CAN keep him in his room if you really want to and expect to. And if you don't, then I don't think you should tell him to do it.

Have you ever heard of Virtues parenting? It is about talking about virtues with kids and calling them to the virtues - like using their respect or gentleness or courage (or whatever the situation calls for). I really like it and think it might give you the words/tools to use when dealing with defiance like you've described.

Tjej

ETA: I'm not trying to be mean about how you handled him today. I get it and have done the same thing when I have been absolutely and utterly spent. Hopefully you are not this exhausted every day - if you are, maybe YOU need the earlier bedtime . If you are consistently not too exhausted to discipline him, then once in a while won't undo all the work you have done, but if you usually don't have the energy or emotional reserves to do it then you need to find a way to nurture yourself so you have more to give/use.

One thing I realized with my DD, who is 5 as well, is that I don't have to do everything immediately. I need a moment sometimes too. So I will say to her, "Mommy needs 5 minutes, and when I come back we're going to talk about why you couldn't be quiet while I was on the phone/didn't listen to me, etc."
post #29 of 32
Thread Starter 
Devaskyla -- Sorry you're dealing w/ some of the same issues w/ your DS. I hope you might be able to take away some of the helpful info other moms have posted here in this thread! I wish I had some advice for you about the food issues. Maybe try posting in the nutrition forums? I can tell you that one thing that worked for my DS when he was a little younger was to make up a "snack tray" in the afternoon, which was literally a divided tray with about 6 sections, which I would fill w/ a variety of healthy snacks that he could nibble on between lunch & dinner. Things like grapes, apple slices, strawberries, carrot sticks, hummus for dipping, cheese cubes, nuts, a mini muffin, etc. I would make it very fruit-&-veggie-heavy (depending on what was in season) , so this way I'd know he was getting his F&V servings in for the day. If I timed it right, he'd still be hungry enough for dinner, but if he wasn't too hungry for dinner & had only a few bites, it was fine b/c I knew he ate a well-balanced snack of sorts earlier. He stopped asking for his snack tray when he started preschool last fall b/c he was having a snack there & then eating lunch later, so he really needed only a small snack between lunch & dinner. Anyway, I don't know if the snack tray idea will work for your DS, but I thought I'd throw it out there in case it might help! Good luck to you!

madskye -- Oh, how I wish the "wait a minute" thing worked w/ my DS! Usually this just makes him more prone to throwing a tantrum! He has NO patience--like his mom!
post #30 of 32
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean I'm asking my DD to wait on anything except whatever I want to say about her behavior. Sometimes I just file the moment away until I am better able to deal with it in a calm manner. Because I need to get some space to collect myself so I don't turn into Momzilla at that point. But usually, I find if she has an undesirable behavior, I can give her a look and let her know that I saw it, and then walk away and now she's big enough that if I bring it up later, she knows what I'm talking about. At 3, I couldn't do that. But at five I can come back to something that happened earlier in the day and discuss it when we are both more level-headed. There are some things that need to be addressed immediately, but there are others that can wait at this point.
post #31 of 32
Thread Starter 
madskye -- Oh, ok--that makes sense! Sorry I misunderstood. Thanks!
post #32 of 32
Quote:
Next time you go out-- tell him exactly what you expect of him. "You can have one snack and then we will go home. If you whine and ask for more then we will have to miss the next week."

And...don't argue with him. (A hard one for me!) He says the sky is green? His new name is Pumpkinhead? Fine, whatever you say. He's trying to get whatever attention he can.

And I agree with all the other Moms who say to praise the positive. Definitely keep on doing that...even if it is the little things. Let him work on getting positive attention instead!
I really like this, especially the first part. Always stop and tell your child what you expect BEFORE proceeding into known trigger situations. Lay it out plainly, give him words to use like "Mommy I need to go home now" when he starts to feel a 'gimme, gimme" tantrum ahead. Tell him he can say "I have the gimme gimmes and need to leave now Mommy" etc. When he does use his words in this way praise the ever loving heck out of him! Tell him you are so proud, so impressed by him etc.
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