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DTAP should I let ds get a 4th dose and other questions

post #1 of 6
Thread Starter 
My son had dtap at 2, 4 and 6 months. He had his well visit at 18 months (yesterday) and I refused vaxs. Infact, I stopped with all vaccinations when he had a bad reaction to his 3rd dose of prevnar which was at 11 months (I delayed it). His reaction was within hours of the shot and lasted almost a week.

The pediatrician gave me the guilt trip of how he should have dtap and pertussis is dangerous. I told her how I read Dr Sear's book and he said that it isn't a concern in the 2nd year of life. Then she told me to check the CDC's site.

I don't know what to do. On one hand, I want him to be protected from the disease, but on the other hand, I don't want him to suffer side effects from the vaccine.

My questions are:

Does anyone know how long protection will last since he only had 3 doses of dtap?

Is pertussis dangerous for an 18+ month old?

What would you advise me to do? He is not in daycare and also he is not around other people for the most part, unless I take him to the mall.

He has only had 3 doses of prevnar, 2 hib, 3 doses of rotatec and 3 doses of dtap. I refused everything else up to this point.

thanks in advance
post #2 of 6
Disclaimer: I'm a non-vaxer

With that said, No way I would get a 4th dose if I had gotten 3 already and my child was out of the "danger zone" .

The Dtap won't protect your child from getting WC, It MAY afford him less severe symptoms, but not necessarily. WC managed the right way can also result is less severe symptoms. There are several threads about WC and the Dtap going on right now. I suggest you check those out.
post #3 of 6
I think you need to consider more information before making this decision.

1. What kind of reaction did he had to Prevnar?

2. Is there any family history of reactions to vaccines, medications, illnesses?

3. Does he have any risk factors that would make Pertussis particularly dangerous for him? Any underlying issues? Asthma? Reactive Airway? How's his overall health?

If the reaction to Prevnar was bad, or if there is a family history of issues, then I would lean towards not vaccinating the 4th dose.

If he has any issues that may make Pertussis harder for him to have, then it might tip the scales just a bit towards getting the 4th dose. Because in that case, even some protection could be better than none. I'm not saying it would be a definite decision for me, just that it's something I would put more stock in.

I also would pour through the vaccine insert and read the efficacy studies for the 3rd and 4th dose. Not everybody needs as many doses as is on the schedule, they try to get everyone under one "umbrella" and assume that a certain percentage of people won't have full immunity after 3, so they add a 4th to pick up those stragglers. What age was he when he had his 3rd dose? That probably makes a difference on how well he's covered now. Oh never mind, I see he was 6 months old. At that age, he probably didn't retain much immunity, the immune system just isn't developed enough at that age, hence the numerous doses in the first year.
post #4 of 6
Disclaimer - I'm a non-vaxer after thousands of hours spent researching the diseases we vax against, and I only have Canadian data, but to give you an idea...here are "just the facts" with the fear messaging taken out:

Diptheria
• Diptheria is an upper respiratory tract illness characterized by sore throat, low grade fever and irritation of the tonsils, pharynx, and/or nasal cavity. Most cases are not life-threatening and resemble a common cold.
• This disease is almost non-existent in our country. In Canada, on average over the last 50 years, there have been between 0 and 5 cases reported each year in a population of over 33,000,000 people, (current population is estimated at 33,043,854). This means that, based on data from the last 50 years, a Canadian (adult or child) has a 0.0000001% chance of contracting diphtheria in a "peak" year.
• The case-fatality rate for diphtheria is 5% to 10%.
• Therefore, statistically, on a worst-case scenario basis, a Canadian today has a zero percent chance of dying of diphtheria, (10% of 0.0000001%).
• Zero deaths have been reported in Canada in the last 14 years.
• The diphtheria shot is 95% effective at creating immunity, (5% will not become immune).
• The product monographs published by the manufacturer of common Diptheria vaccines approved for use in Canada, including contraindications, warnings and precautions, can be found here http://www.sanofipasteur.ca/sanofi-p...odeRubrique=72
• Pediacel made by Sanofi Pasteur is the one intended for infants and children: http://www.vaccineshoppecanada.com/s...Pediacel_E.pdf

Tetanus
• Tetanus is not a contagious disease. It is caused by bacteria spores found in the intestines of animals and in soil contaminated with feces. These spores enter the human body through a puncture wound, laceration or burn. The tetanus bacteria can only survive without oxygen, however if a wound bleeds, the bacteria is exposed to oxygen and cannot survive. This is why tetanus, as an illness, is normally found in the elderly and people with poor circulation, and rarely – if ever – found in children, (who generally have strong blood circulation).
• Tetanus is extremely rare in Canada, and statistically non-existent in children.
• Even in the 1920's and 1930's, where farming, living and working conditions were "ideal" for tetanus, and when medical resources and wound care were very poor, only 40-50 deaths were reported annually in the entire country, (of an estimated population of more than 10,000,000 at that time). That means that in 1930, you had a 0.000005% chance of dying of tetanus.
• There was a rise in tetanus cases in the 1940's, noted as attributable to injuries from WWII and inadequate wound care.
• Over the last 47 years, there have been less than 20 cases reported annually in Canada, with less than 10 cases reported annually over the last 27 years.
• More than half of the cases reported were in people over age 50.
• In the year 2000, there were only 3 cases reported in all of Canada.
• In 2001, 8 cases were reported in Canada; 1 case was aged 30-39; 2 cases were aged 40-59, 5 cases were aged 60+.
• In 2002, one case was reported in Canada; the person was over age 60.
• In 2003, one case was reported in Canada; the person was over age 60.
• In 2004, two cases were reported, one aged 30-39, one aged 60+.
• Not all who contract tetanus will die from it; the death rate from tetanus is 20%.
• Therefore, based on a "worst-case scenario" from data from the last 27 years, statistically, your child has a zero percent chance of dying from tetanus, (IF there were 10 cases of tetanus IN CHILDREN in a given year, - unlikely given there have been none in the last 100years but for arguments sake lets say there were 10 - out of a current population of 33,043,854; the odds of contracting tetanus are 0.0000003%, and the odds of dying from it are 20% of that = statistically = 0).
• There are no traceable reported cases of tetanus in babies or children in Canada, (and no traceable reported cases of a baby or child dying of tetanus in Canada).
• The tetanus vaccine does not guarantee immunity.
• The product monographs published by the manufacturer of common Tetanus vaccines approved for use in Canada, including contraindications, warnings and precautions, can be found here http://www.sanofipasteur.ca/sanofi-p...odeRubrique=72
• Pediacel made by Sanofi Pasteur is the one intended for infants and children: http://www.vaccineshoppecanada.com/s...Pediacel_E.pdf

Pertussis (Whooping Cough)
• Pertussis is an infection of the respiratory tract. Mild/moderate cases can resemble a cold. The greatest incidence of pertussis is in infants under 1 year of age and the second highest is in children aged 10-14 years, (contracting it). Deaths from pertussis are rare.
• Over the last 17 years, the annual number of reported cases of Pertussis has ranged from 2,400 to 10,200.
• On average, one to three deaths occur each year in Canada from pertussis, (in a population of approximately 33,043,854), most of which are in premature infants or infants under 4 months old.
• Therefore, 0.0003% of the population will contract pertussis.
• 0.001% to 0.002% will die from it – mainly premature infants or those under 4 months old.
• Over the last 5 years, there have been between 330,000 and 350,000 births per year in Canada.
• Therefore, if, as a "worst-case scenario", all cases of pertussis are in babies, (which we know they are not), 0.000009% of babies will die of pertussis each year.
• If your baby is not premature and/or is now at least 3-4 months old, it is very unlikely that they will die of pertussis.
• The vaccine used in Canada does not guarantee immunity; it prevents the disease approximately 85% of the time. Generally the vaccine does not provide immunity until after the third or fourth dose, given between 6 – 18 months, after the risk has declined substantially.
• The product monographs published by the manufacturer of common Pertussis vaccines approved for use in Canada, including contraindications, warnings and precautions, can be found here http://www.sanofipasteur.ca/sanofi-p...odeRubrique=72
• Pediacel made by Sanofi Pasteur is the one intended for infants and children: http://www.vaccineshoppecanada.com/s...Pediacel_E.pdf

So based on my research Pertussis does not seem to be a strong health risk for an 18 month old and based on prior reactions I would not vaccinate my child again, but that's me...

Hope this helps!
post #5 of 6
Do your research and make the decision for your son that your family can live with.
post #6 of 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowqueen View Post
I don't know what to do. On one hand, I want him to be protected from the disease, but on the other hand, I don't want him to suffer side effects from the vaccine.
I'm not trying to protect my children from ever getting ill, I'm trying to protect them from harm. I think there is a greater risk of harm from the vaccination than the disease.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowqueen View Post
My questions are:

Does anyone know how long protection will last since he only had 3 doses of dtap?

Is pertussis dangerous for an 18+ month old?
Antibodies for Pertussis don't last long; new booster requirements keep being added for all ages (Pertussis and Permanent Immunity).

18month olds are not at particular risk.

Pertussis in the unvaccinated
Pertussis: Yo-Yo Stats
Read more



Quote:
Originally Posted by snowqueen View Post
What would you advise me to do? He is not in daycare and also he is not around other people for the most part, unless I take him to the mall.

He has only had 3 doses of prevnar, 2 hib, 3 doses of rotatec and 3 doses of dtap. I refused everything else up to this point.

thanks in advance
I no longer vax (my first is only vaxed to 12mo delayed) but I do not shelter my children; they have played with the germy train table at Barnes and Noble, germy children's museums, and my son ate candy off the ground at the zoo --they are fine. Ds did have pertussis at 2, but his worst illness was actually bacterial pink eye at 5; it came with respirator symptoms and we all were quite sick from it.
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