When your kids disappoint you?

[Oriole]

what do you do?
How do you cope? I know it can happen at any age, but probably harder to handle with an older child, as you feel like your values should be there by now, and it's as if you failed to teach them kindness?

I am not talking about disappointment by not getting into Harvard Law school, but more along the lines of not acting with kindness towards others, or being drawn to materialistic side vs. genuine?

Please share.

[CatsCradle]

Oriole: are you asking this because of present personal experience with this or out of fear/curiosity that it may happen in the future?

If the latter, I think we all fear that our children may stray from our own values systems. I think that is what makes parenting so hard. We desparately want our children to enter larger society with the qualities and values that we hold dear. I don't think this is something new. Parents have probably been plagued with these fears since the beginning of time.

I think that if your child, who is still under your care, does something that disappoints you, it is a great opportunity to discuss the broader implications of your child's behavior with your child. I think the most valuable lessons of my life (especially growing up) were those learned when I strayed outside the value systems that were important to my parents. Once a child is outside your care, however, I suppose it would be heartbreaking to see them become a person that exhibits qualities that are in contrast to our own values. We can only do our best with the short time that we have them.

[DariusMom]

I'm afraid I've been too harsh with my DS (7). He's usually been such a great, compassionate, sweet kid that when he's disappointed me (being less than caring and generous to other kids, saying mean things to his best friend and to other kids), I've been so shocked that I've been borderline mean myself! In one case, I even told him I was ashamed of him.

I've then calmed down and spoken to him about what his behavior triggered in me, why I felt like that, and how he might have felt if someone had acted towards him the way he acted towards them.

Would love to hear good insights and tips from other parents. Thanks, OP, for this thread.

[meemee]

oriole i havent gone thru this yet coz my dd's only 7....

but i have thought about this. many times.

and here's how i care to look at the situation.

my dd has nothing to do with me. i provided a womb to come to this world. when she is young i am her guide. i give her options. she chooses.

as she grows old she decides for herself.

so if i have taught her to be kind - and she turns out to be the greatest *itch - it is what she chose.

right now i am dealing with this with my roommate and his almost 18 year old son. his son was just caught shoplifting - a watermelon.

his dad is all bent out of shape.

but i can see it is a rite of passage. doesnt mean he is on his way to become a criminal.

but his dad cant see it.

so by the time dd is a teenager and/or young adult, i hope what i see as 'disappointments' i can put in perspective. the mistakes we make while learning on the way.

yeah i will be disappointed dd didnt turn out the way i would have like her to have turned out ....

but it isnt about my failure. it is more about my child's choices. and also about timing. late teens we all do stupid things. but around 24/25 when finally the frontal lobe is fully developed do we really come into who we really are.

before that age all we can do as parents is survive by the seat of our pants.

[MusicianDad]

My children haven't disappointed me, and I doubt they could. I may dislike their actions at times, but they as people are not a disappointment. I am very careful about distinguishing the person from the action, especially in regards to people I know when they do something otherwise out of character.

Meemee, perhaps your friend needs help looking into life-course persistent offenders vs. adolescent limited offenders... Because chances are his son is the latter.

[DariusMom]

Originally Posted by meemee

oriole i havent gone thru this yet coz my dd's only 7....

I have a 7 year old and I have been disappointed in his behavior at times.

Originally Posted by meemee

my dd has nothing to do with me. i provided a womb to come to this world. when she is young i am her guide. i give her options. she chooses.

as she grows old she decides for herself.

so if i have taught her to be kind - and she turns out to be the greatest *itch - it is what she chose.

But of course she has something to do with you. She is half yours genetically. And, even if you don't believe that genetics plays the larger role in determining behavior and character, you have raised her (or "guided" her, if you prefer that terminology). You have provided the living environment and much of the stimuli that has shaped her by the home you have chosen, the people with whom you have put her in contact, etc. How can you say she has nothing to do with you?

I do get that you believe your daughter has choices, especially as she gets older. I believe the same about my son. But, if, as your example posits, she becomes a *itch because she chose to be, wouldn't you feel disappointment? Wouldn't you feel that you would rather she had become kind, loving, and caring?

Originally Posted by meemee

so by the time dd is a teenager and/or young adult, i hope what i see as 'disappointments' i can put in perspective. the mistakes we make while learning on the way.

I agree with you here. I would be disappointed but hope I could put it in perspective.

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

My children haven't disappointed me, and I doubt they could. I may dislike their actions at times, but they as people are not a disappointment. I am very careful about distinguishing the person from the action, especially in regards to people I know when they do something otherwise out of character.

Sure. I agree. But my take on what the OP was saying was not some sort of intrinsic disappointment in the ultimate character of the child (though maybe that's what she meant?) but, rather, disappointing behavior at any given moment or period of time.

[Oriole]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

My children haven't disappointed me, and I doubt they could. I may dislike their actions at times, but they as people are not a disappointment. I am very careful about distinguishing the person from the action, especially in regards to people I know when they do something otherwise out of character.

Meemee, perhaps your friend needs help looking into life-course persistent offenders vs. adolescent limited offenders... Because chances are his son is the latter.

Would you not be disappointed if they hurt another person on purpose?

I do not mean to imply that your children have it in them, but I am curious what other people do.

We have a very big trial going on in the area, four teenagers broke into a house, killed the mother and almost killed a child (she survived). Certainly the parents of these teens did not see this coming? Who can predict something like this?

I see one child bully another, and some parents will ignore it with excuses, and some will have a discussion about treating others with kindness, but in the moment - it can't feel good to know that's YOUR child is bullying another.

Are you certain that your children will never say a cruel remark to another person? Will never make fun of anyone? I hope you are right, but I guess I am asking for a perspective of those who can imagine that possibility, and would like to know beyond discussing things with your kid, how would you move on internally?

Kindness is very important quality for me in a person. I get the trial and error of growing up, and DSD acts with great kindness sometimes, but I have also seen a mean streak. I guess I hope that the kind side wins before she is all grown up, but I worry - what if it won't? kwim?

[meemee]

hah oriole. i read this just last night after i replied to your post. written by a psychologist. however as a spiritual person i dont buy into this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/13/health/13mind.html

[GuildJenn]

Well if we're talking about being mean sometimes, I think pretty much everyone has that in them - and for good reason; sometimes you do get into a situation where you have to be unkind.

I had someone bothering my son quite a bit (in a creepy way) and I felt it was important to make it extremely clear right then that he had to cut it out. Although I'm certainly not proud of the times in my life I've been unkind, they were in a sense 'practice' for when it is needed.

Also sometimes it's necessarily. When my son had appendicitis and was in hospital afterwards with tubes everywhere and in discomfort, he was extremely angry and he was definitely withholding affection and being a bit mean. I was glad to see it because to me it was his fighting spirit keeping his self save in a very hard situation. There are times to learn about kindness and times to let it go.

So I see the times that kids are unkind to each other as critical learning times to be embraced - first to help them learn not to be and to stop, and second to allow them to experience their inner power and hardness that they might need at some point. Not to be too trite about it but you can't have light without darkness and all that.

That said I think it is possible for kids to develop their own ideas and personality traits that don't align with their parents' values. And at some point it becomes about accepting that we only control so much.

I don't have direct experience with that as a parent but as a child I certainly know there are things my relatives do and have done that I don't respect or agree with. In that case I see it as my role to set good boundaries, and in some cases to keep the discussion open, but also to love them anyway. I hope I would do the same for my own children.

In the case of something horrific like a murder I think it's probably the kind of thing you just can't understand until you are there. I'd hope I would both be horrified and support justice while still loving my child, but I also suspect there would be many small damages to the relationship along the way and that each situation is really unique.

[meemee]

Originally Posted by Oriole

Kindness is very important quality for me in a person. I get the trial and error of growing up, and DSD acts with great kindness sometimes, but I have also seen a mean streak. I guess I hope that the kind side wins before she is all grown up, but I worry - what if it won't? kwim?

but oriole isnt that the duality of nature?

if you asked my ex he would say i am a *itch.

if you asked my mom she would say i am the angriest person on earth. we have a rocky relationship.

if you asked my anthro study group - a bunch of us who have been together for the past 6 weeks - i am the nicest person ever. i am helpful, kind and really open minded and they can come to me for anything including a shoulder to cry on as they deal with relationship breakup.

4 teenagers breaking in an almost killing a mom and child.

would i blame teh parents for not doing a good job? is that the first thought that would come to my mind? nope. i would wonder woah. were those kids under the influence of drugs?

if that was my dd i would be horrified. disappointed? no. because i am only one of her 'guidance'. she has many more. who she listens to at that moment has nothing to do with me. she could go into the crowd mentality and join them. who knows.

of course my dd has been a pill. even at 7. has she disappointed me. NO!!!! never!!!! its such a harsh strong word. why does she always have to be on her best behaviour? dunno. she is mostly gracious.

MD - the dad himself is at a hard place in his head. i have to tread softly and gently for him to get the point. and what i am grateful for is that he is seeing the other side of his son as he watches his son interact with me. apparently all the others bring out the bad in him. i dont. i guess unlike the others i dont think he's a bad apple. just that he's a good kid gone astray. and i believe in the good in him. his dad is not open to seeing that side of his son yet - in words. in actions yes. not in words. kwim.

[Oriole]

Originally Posted by meemee

but oriole isnt that the duality of nature?
.

I guess, but at what point "the duality of nature" no longer holds the excuse for cruelty?

[laohaire]

In the situation of the teens breaking in (and I don't even want to finish the rest) I think I would disown my child. It's hard for me to imagine, though, because I'm just picturing strange teens, not my own precious daughter. I still think that I could not live with that and I don't know what I would do if I saw something like that coming (violent preteen or teen). Military school would probably be a big consideration. I'm not into that but if I thought my kid was a psychopath or needed extra discipline, I think military school might provide the structure they need. I am raising my child to do what's right because it's right, and not because she'll be punished otherwise - but some people don't understand right from wrong, and fear of punishment is the only thing that keeps them in line.

As far as smaller disappointments, like being mean to another person or maybe sneaking money or cigs from a purse or lying or being extremely materialistic... I can only think of a mantra of my mother's:

"She (or he) is not done yet."

I've said things and done things I regret, but I've grown up enough to regret it. I am not the same person who said/did those things anymore. I could still do or say the wrong thing, but that's because I'm still not "done" yet - we grow all our lives.

[meemee]

Originally Posted by Oriole

I guess, but at what point "the duality of nature" no longer holds the excuse for cruelty?

i would like to hope that i would be like the swedes when it comes to this.

even a murderer is given a chance.

it might be a momentary madness. whatever the reason.

and the murderers are in some way taken back into society.

but cruelty. no i would not hold myself responsible for it.

are you saying all the criminals of the world are due to bad parenting, or that parents have a key role to play? if you say that parents do have a huge role to play.

if one of those kids had been my dd, i would have turned her over to authorities and then visited her in jail regularly. no matter what she does she is still that little baby i held in my arms. i just cant forget that.

[Marsupialmom]

Honestly, it depends on what they have done and ages and stages.

Sometimes our disappointment is best not known. Like, if my children were to join the military. I would be disappointed but my kids won't know that! -- Military families please understand I am third generation military and I want a different life for my kids than I had.

Sometimes, the act of unkindness and disappointment means you need to speak up and take more time teaching. We sometimes have ideas that our children will do or know something and they don't. Sometimes we have to remember our kids are kids and they will do stupid things that in time they will be remorseful for, that is part of growing. Sometimes, they are kids and will simply make mistakes.

Sometimes it is the child's age. If my almost 10 year old said something homophobic, I would be disappointed. But I would minimize my disappointed and use the situation to teach. Were as my almost 16 year old would get a different response. My almost 16 year was in a situation last year that another person was being homophobic. There was a part of me that was disappointed that he did not speak up and acted as he did to that person but the other part of me that was happy that he confided in us so we could help him negotiate the situation. In hind-site, I understand his fear of speaking up right then when stuff was happing but he did reach out to help rectify the situation. Now if my child 20 and homophobic then I would let my disappointment be known.

[Oriole]

Originally Posted by laohaire

I

As far as smaller disappointments, like being mean to another person or maybe sneaking money or cigs from a purse or lying or being extremely materialistic... I can only think of a mantra of my mother's:

"She (or he) is not done yet."

I think I need this kind of mantra collection.
Maybe I just have anxiety issues?

I'm not implying that I consider a child that did something wrong "done", or that I find them a hopeless case undeserving a second chance. I am also not quick to blame the parents, although, somehow it does feel personal when dsd doesn't act with kindness, as if *WE* did something wrong, yk?

Just looking for al kinds of perspective on this topic.

Thank you for the article, btw! the most interesting part I found, is the one that said we accept that wonderful children can come out from horrific households, but that it's so much more difficult to accept when the opposite happens. (mind you, I am not implying that DSD is horrific, just talking about something that struck a chord from the article).

[One_Girl]

My dd is seven and has started to experiment some with who she wants to be as a person and has on occasion done some things that are very out of character and shocking, like excluding someone from play, teasing someone with friends, and pushing a friend who annoyed her all day long. These are things she sees kids around her doing and I think she is influenced by that. It is disappointing to me because I have raised her to be kind, to express herself with words, and to never touch another person in violence and she has almost always lived up to these values. I think she is experimenting with different choices now because she is starting to figure out who she is as a person. She is very open about what she is doing and tells me about the choices she makes when I am away. I talk to my dd about it and ask her to tell me about her choice and the reasons for it as calmly as possible. I sometimes also tell her more about why I have taught her certain values, why I hope she also embraces those values, ask her questions to help her think about how her choice affected other people (not yes no questions), or tell her about a time I made the same mistake as a child and that it is okay (which helps me remember that it really is okay).

I have heard that around this age kids start to be able to reason more and they want to figure out more things for themselves. I think that what she is doing now is a natural extension of that. It helps to remember that this isn't a constant thing and that she is just a child who is still learning about the world and herself. I think keeping calm and helping her work through both sides of the situation will help her make informed choices about her values and will help her continue to come to me when she needs help making a decision about a situation. It helps that I am totally floored by some of the things she tells me so I have to ask questions to figure out what is going on, freaking out isn't a natural response for me anymore usually.

[DariusMom]

Originally Posted by meemee

if that was my dd i would be horrified. disappointed? no. because i am only one of her 'guidance'. she has many more. who she listens to at that moment has nothing to do with me. she could go into the crowd mentality and join them. who knows.

of course my dd has been a pill. even at 7. has she disappointed me. NO!!!! never!!!! its such a harsh strong word. why does she always have to be on her best behaviour? dunno. she is mostly gracious.

Ummm . .. what definition of disappointment are you using? Disappointment is defined as "to fail to meet the expectations, hopes, desires, or standards of; let down" You mean you seriously, sincerely would not feel that your expectations, hopes, desires, and standards for your DD would not be let down if she committed murder?? Why is "disappointment" such a "harsh strong" word for you? You mean you really wouldn't be disappointed if she joined in a crowd mentality and committed murder?

Originally Posted by One_Girl

My dd is seven and has started to experiment some with who she wants to be as a person and has on occasion done some things that are very out of character and shocking, like excluding someone from play, teasing someone with friends, and pushing a friend who annoyed her all day long. These are things she sees kids around her doing and I think she is influenced by that. It is disappointing to me because I have raised her to be kind, to express herself with words, and to never touch another person in violence and she has almost always lived up to these values. I think she is experimenting with different choices now because she is starting to figure out who she is as a person. She is very open about what she is doing and tells me about the choices she makes when I am away. I talk to my dd about it and ask her to tell me about her choice and the reasons for it as calmly as possible. I sometimes also tell her more about why I have taught her certain values, why I hope she also embraces those values, ask her questions to help her think about how her choice affected other people (not yes no questions), or tell her about a time I made the same mistake as a child and that it is okay (which helps me remember that it really is okay).

I have heard that around this age kids start to be able to reason more and they want to figure out more things for themselves. I think that what she is doing now is a natural extension of that. It helps to remember that this isn't a constant thing and that she is just a child who is still learning about the world and herself. I think keeping calm and helping her work through both sides of the situation will help her make informed choices about her values and will help her continue to come to me when she needs help making a decision about a situation. It helps that I am totally floored by some of the things she tells me so I have to ask questions to figure out what is going on, freaking out isn't a natural response for me anymore usually.

Thanks for posting this. My DS is 7 and has started with the same behaviors. (see my posting above) It's been hard to deal with because he's generally been so sweet, kind, and thoughtful (and still is, for the most part). So it's hard when he's *disappointed* me with his behavior.

[Oriole]

Thank you very much for your honest replies.

[mistymama]

I think I may look at this whole issue very differently than most people - partly because I have a child with Aspergers who can do some pretty socially clueless things, and partly because I was that teen that majorly f'ed up and disappointed her parents.

My child has never disappointed me, he's 7, going on 8. He has done some pretty rude things before, even said some rude stuff to me - but it's my job to help him understand why it was a hurtful thing to say/do .. and I don't take it personally or let it upset me at all. Maybe it's because of the Aspergers, and the fact that he needs help learning social skills.

I also know that as a teen I majorly acted out, smoked pot, got kicked out of school, didn't go to college as planned and I can guarantee my parents were beyond disappointed. But it was a path I needed to take for myself - it made me who I am today, and it didn't take me very long to get myself back on track, learn the life lessons I needed to - and turn out to be a pretty good person.

We are all human, we all make mistakes and heck, I'm disappointed in my *own* behavior more often than my child's - he's still learning and needs my guidance! What about when *I* find myself being a gossip, etc?

Sure - there are some major things like Murder that I just can't tell you how on earth I would react, and hope to God I never have to learn. But most things I can think of would not disappoint me - cry for help, need for attention, need for more guidance ... but not anything I would take personally.

Looks like I'm one of the few that feel this way.

[Oriole]

Originally Posted by mistymama

I think I may look at this whole issue very differently than most people - partly because I have a child with Aspergers who can do some pretty socially clueless things, and partly because I was that teen that majorly f'ed up and disappointed her parents.

My child has never disappointed me, he's 7, going on 8. He has done some pretty rude things before, even said some rude stuff to me - but it's my job to help him understand why it was a hurtful thing to say/do .. and I don't take it personally or let it upset me at all. Maybe it's because of the Aspergers, and the fact that he needs help learning social skills.

I know what Asperger's is like, and I DO think that it matters. It's not something a child has a control over, so it's a lot more understandable when their actions are not "right".

I also know that as a teen I majorly acted out, smoked pot, got kicked out of school, didn't go to college as planned and I can guarantee my parents were beyond disappointed. But it was a path I needed to take for myself - it made me who I am today, and it didn't take me very long to get myself back on track, learn the life lessons I needed to - and turn out to be a pretty good person.

I am more patient and understanding with things that are self-choices, i.e. drugs, sex and rock and roll.
However, when it comes to intentional and remorseless hurting of other people's feelings - that's where the disappointment comes in.

Looks like I'm one of the few that feel this way.

I really don't think so.