Originally Posted by EdnaMarie
That's what a time-out is, though. Time-out is punishment to the child who doesn't like it, relaxation for the child who does. It's that simple.
I disagree. Many people use them as a way to shame and isolate the child and especially if they use it in her preschool like they do in my son's she may very much have a preconception of the "time-out" like the dunces hat in the corner. Being locked in your room or sat on a chair and told to sit there for an arbitrary period of time is WAY different than being told to come over here and calm down and when you are ready to calm down and be human and apologize you may come back to the group. Especially if they use it in her school, you may want a different name at home.
|Again... we are going in circles. Can I do that? Yes. Does it suck the life out of my days sometimes? Yes. Is that a neural pattern I want her to get into? No. Is it gentle? Not particularly.
Yes it sucks the life out of you, but it will fade evenutally and in the meantime it is by FAR the most gentle route available to face a combative natured person. It is used by UN peace negotiators. It is taught by the NVC organization as a tactic for disengaging. It is used at Peace University for reaching through the combative nature of some and finding the real need being communicated.
The first few dozen times it will take you fifty or a hundred repetitions. But little by little it will get less and less and less because eventually they cotton on to the futility of it.
Not gentle? It's a LOT more gentle than "No" "Because we can't" "Just stop" "Leave me alone" "I don't want to talk about it" "Stop talking" "Go away now" A LOT more gentle because it is not denying them the right to talk through their emotions and feelings and arguments, it is simply not responding to them sending the message "it does not matter what you say about this, there is no way for this to change." and allows you to have a sort of mantra so that you do not lose your cool.
I am also not sure what you mean by a neural pattern you don't want her getting into? What pattern specifically are you concerned about? Can you clarify what you mean?
|I just let her win and focus on doing what needs to be done, such as, oh, showering. Talking to baby. I'm not going to debate the way the peanut-butter is spread. No. Just... no. She wants to but sorry. If you want to paint, if you want to speak politely, if you want to discuss, yes. Argue? No, I do that enough already in a day.
ahhhh. Okay. Now I get what you mean. Yeah. I would do the same. I use "whatever" with DS a lot. And I play "I don't care" from Really Rosie. I spend a lot of time using music to tease him from his stroppy arguments with me, like when he is begging and begging for something he wants I start singing "You Can't always get what you want" he had to be the only 2 year old who could sing a Rolling Stones song in his pre-school.
It's okay to use humor to turn a case of the whines into a case of the giggles, even if YOU are the only one laughing.
You do what you can to get through these years without killing them.
|This is true, but if you want to buckle, then freaking buckle, you know? Don't tell me you'll buckle then don't buckle then tell me no no you will, then you need help, then not that way.
Just to throw this out there. Benjamin was not allowed to buckle his own seat belt or car seat until he was 5 years and 2 months...like a few weeks ago. It wasn't even a discussion I thought
about entertaining. It was gonna be me or his dad. A) I wasn't all that keen on having him figure out how to undo it (which his brain could figure out pretty easily if he was shown how to put it on) and battle him undoing it every three blocks. B) I never felt all that secure he was doing right and it was just that
important to me. I put Car Seat safety up on a priority level with not drinking poison and not playing with fire. Just absolutely NO. I listened to a LOT of crying and wailing and arguments. I tried explaining my point of view but at some point I was done explaining. This is the way it is. If you have a complaint I can fix, let me know. Is it the fabric? It is the buckles? Does it hurt? I will make sure you are comfortable and listen to complaints or concerns openly, but its me or daddy who'se buckling the damn thing. GET. OVER. IT! Took him about a year and half to get over it. I just kept repeating for a year and half "I am sorry you don't like it this is the way it has to be." I didn't answer why, I didn't respond to abusive name calling. I didn't react to pleas of maturity and I'm a big boy just: "I am sorry you don't like it this is the way it has to be.""I am sorry you don't like it this is the way it has to be.""I am sorry you don't like it this is the way it has to be.""I am sorry you don't like it this is the way it has to be.""I am sorry you don't like it this is the way it has to be.""I am sorry you don't like it this is the way it has to be.""I am sorry you don't like it this is the way it has to be.""I am sorry you don't like it this is the way it has to be.""I am sorry you don't like it this is the way it has to be."...
So what? It is a battle I am willing to face again if DD turns out to feel the need to assert her independence over car seat buckling. ABSOLUTELY! No way. No how is it a choice. Being gentle sometimes means doing what is best for them and letting go of the need for them to like it. He is now the seat belt police in the car, and if we are in a mini van with a tour group or a taxi, he makes sure everyone has their belts on before we are allowed to go.
|I mean... I'm sorry, but as long as you think you are the center of the universe, disappointment is bound to follow, you know?
Yes, but how do we handle that disappointment as parents? I think in order for them to move on to the next phase of development I believe they need to face that disappointment with as much empathy as you can muster but where it counts (and that's different for every family and every child) not giving in.
|Sure, when they're older, which is why we had hoped to have our third closer to these two. If I am pregnant, these will be exactly two years apart, so it will be 4.5, 2, and newborn, or in high-school (because DD1 is October), Senior, Sophomore, 8th grade, then again Junior-Freshman, Senior-Sophomore. Which I think is great.
Doesn't mean it's not pure hell in the early years.
Too true. My hats go off to you mamas who face the gauntlet like that. I could never.
|Oh, I know, some people STTN co-sleeping with their children who just calmly listen to them when they ask them to go to their quiet spot then they go and they just love the baby.
That is not us, and I can't even think about making it happen because it will just depress me.
IMO/E, extroverts do not co-sleep well. They get energized by the presence of others, especially introverts from whom they can more readily leech energy (making your nights less restful and therefor less productive). DS was/is motivated by people in his sleeping space. If a friend or cousins sleeps over guarenteed he will be up and ready to bounce at the crack of dawn and have a very hard time sleeping in the first place. He gets active and more alert the more people are around him. This is perhaps another reason to consider finding another sleeping arrangement for your younger one. (I know that may not be possible, but maybe that's one of the reasons DD1 is having a hard time settling down?)
The fastest sleep I get out of him requires that after school and a bit of playground time on the way home, he has an hour of computer time either before or after dinner (which works really well for me to have time with the baby or to make dinner), a warm shower, an hour of a video while I put baby to sleep or before that did some grading/preparation for my classes, one bedtime story (for a while right aorund your DDs age I would read a few pages from Sinbad the Sailor, read in a soft lilting voice) and if he makes it through the story, a song.
For computer game sites for tots, we really like Starfall.com and Boowakwala.com and now that he is older and starting to read more he likes Poptropica which is a pretty fun puzzle game...but really for the six and up crowd. We started with Starfall when he was right around your DD's age. SO educational and so not a waste of time. By the time he was four he knew that the silent e at the end of the word makes the I say "Ahy" and the A say "Ehy" and makes the E say "ee" and makes the O say "Oh" and Make the U say "you". He could recognize phonemes like OO OU EA and IGH and TH and CH and knew the individual sounds of all the letters. Boowkwala is more silly stuff but there are some great puzzles for him and logic puzzle stuff and he could start to do them at 3.5 yrs old. He loved it and I got some much needed down time from the barrage of questions and inqueries and can-I-haves and I-wannas. Introverts tend to get energized by screen time. It makes them hyper, ready to be social, which is why many reclusive introverts can stay up for days and days on the computer "chatting" and blogging etc. Extroverts get drained by such isolated interaction and find themselve sleepy and ready to rest their eyes.
He loves the games and I have to limit the time, but the fight he puts up is pretty pathetic compared to if I say "we need to leave the park now." or worse still if we are at a play date with friends and it's time for either group to leave...forget it. We are talking tears and abuse for the next two hours.
This doesn't mean you will see immediate results, but you may at least get a bit of down time to re-energize you.
When DS is hyper I let him play for a half hour or so and usually he calms down after that and is ready to eat or even just talk at a normal intelligible speed.
FWIW, hitting is a non-negotiable with me. But yes, therein lies the rub, how do you physically stop it if you also have a younger toddler to protect? I don't know. My niece is like that. You give her a telling off or a time-out, first she curls up in a ball of what appears very much to me to be pure rage, then she goes mental and hits and spits and just loses it. I have found that using toddler-ese (here's a blog about it: http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/babys...the-block.aspx
) with her in these moments helps to calm her down somewhat. If you can catch her in her ball of rage stage and toddler-ese her down out of the rage into just angry and bitter but trusting you, you may have averted disaster, but better still is to use it BEFORE she needs telling off or a time out. TBH, prevention of bad behavior by managing her constantly
is the only method that seems to work against her violent tendencies. When she has been left with me for long periods, despite having her sisters, my son and my baby in my charge, she had to take focus priority, not preference, she didn't get her way, but I had to keep a keen eye on her and watch for any signs of hunger, exhaustion boredom etc. If I could manage to distract the others with a video or a coloring project or a computer game I could take her aside and read a story with the baby, I offered her and DS snacks almost all day, just had a buffet of things like apple slices, granola bars, sandwiches, the more frequently they ate, the better both of them behaved. I had to just keep switching activities and offering new games.
That could be why your DD loves pre-school. I think pre-school teachers are trained to switch activities every 20-30 minutes or something like that.
When meltdowns happen with Ruthie, we all have to just wait it out until she decides to be calm again, but the only way to get through them is to remain calm and determined and keep placing her back in the safe place, and keep telling her "I love you, but hitting is not okay." placing her back on the chair "When you are ready to be nice you can come back" and stand there over her until she either gives in, or says she is ready, but to be honest this could take up to two hours of an afternoon. Not fun for anyone.
Conversely Ruthie, who lives primarily in a spanking
household and who is frequently told to stop, be quiet, leave people alone
and then is swatted or locked in her room
if she doesn't, is still having tantrums at 4.5 yo as frequently and as violently as she did two years ago...but her sweet moments are extra
sweet now which at least makes her tolerable.