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post #181 of 285
hi there -
(let me preface this by saying I feel kind of shy offering any sort of suggestion - things around here would not suggest me as qualified to give advice, but anyway)

first off - some kids are just more difficult than others on certain issues, and it doesn`t mean you screwed up somewhere. I read things like "I send her to time-out" and "I just walk away" and (my favorite last year when we were having big bedtime troubles) "I don`t allow her to get out of her bed" (what do you do, tie her down? that s what it would take to keep my girl there if she didn`t want to be) and it makes me wonder, are they really telling the truth? children stay where you put them? `cause mine doesn`t, and with a house made mostly of sliding paper doors, there`s no locking her or myself in anywhere, and telling her to stay somewhere, and repeatedly putting here there leads to more refusal until, eventually, she melts entirely and looses control, and then not only do we have no successful time out, but we have hittting, kicking and screaming child who clings to parent. sooooo...

the solution (or, rather, only option I see) for us when dd just won`t stop doing something unacceptable (so after a few reminders and attempts to redirect/distract) is a time-IN, sit quietly with mama (or, rather, often mama sits quietly and tries to breathe deeeply while restraining any hitting/kicking limbs) or we go for a walk with me holding her and her thrashing about until she can calm down.

anyway, there is no little baby aroud here, so I don`t know if this is a practical response when your dd is spitting/hitting/kicking, but I don`t remember seeing it mentioned, so I thought I would put it out there. at any rate, I like this method for sending both the "this is not okay behavior" signal and the "I love you and am not leaving even when you are trying your hardest to give me a stroke" messages (which is necessary for us - time out is not an option on emotional grounds as well as physical-impossibility grounds in dd`s particular case).
post #182 of 285
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamamille View Post
why do you think she clings to you so? Why she is so relentless sometimes with her energy and body? What do you think she is saying? What does she want out of the turmoil?
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Have you asked her why she behaves the way she does? In all your posts, I only see you express yourself from your own perspective. You evidently don't quite understand where your DD "comes from", but I don't really get the impression you're actively trying to find out?
These are good questions and in fact I have asked her and I do care where she's coming from, but it's very hard to find out mainly because I cannot ask her when she's in a state, it's only when she's calm, and her sense of time is very vague, so her answers about the past are really unreliable. (I mean like at times she uses the wrong details, etc. leading me to believe she's talking about another time entirely.)

And then she very often says, "I don't know."

Sample questions: "You really were having a hard time calming down. Do you know what made you feel so excited?" "I know you don't want to hit. You know it's wrong. How did you feel when you hit? / What did you feel like when you were hitting?"

I do go further, but I always fear my probing questions are too leading in that respect, because open-ended questions get too little response. "I don't remember," for example. I might ask, "Did you feel angry or sad or something else?" But then she'll say, "something else." LOL! I really think she doesn't remember. Blind, momentary rage, so to speak.

There is certainly a physical aspect to it- overtired (as strict as I try to be with naptime and bedtime, it's the army, and we live in an apartment, and there's the baby, so...), hungry (if she chooses not to eat much), or if there are other people coming, going, or are here.

She gets REALLY wound up with other people. Despite five to seven hours a day in a social setting (she begs to go and never ONCE has she asked to leave excepting times I forgot the water bottle and she got super thirsty), she just begs to go out and get out and about. With new people, she literally goes nuts. It is just hard to watch, honestly--it looks like when they show bipolar kids on TV, only it's just while she gets used to the person. It is truly, truly manic.

True, I haven't asked how she feels at those times but she expresses her love for those people, "So-and-so is so fun! I love such-and-such! Can we see my auntie so I can talk to her? I want to go outside where people are!"

As for the arguing, sometimes I do ask her, "Honey, I'm tired. I told you why and it's very important. Can I ask WHY you are arguing?"

She says, "Because I love to argue! Arguing is fun! Don't you like it? I love it! NO! See?" Giggles. In fact I promise that is a verbatim answer from her today.

And I know she likes it. It's her raison d'etre. Which is fine, because now I do have a way to deal with that.

(Did I mention her favorite game is "no no it's mine!" in which two people pretend to fight over a favored object or piece of food? I'm not kidding. I asked what game she wanted to play and she said that was her favorite. WTF but yes, I did play it...)

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That needs to go back on the shelf.
Marybethorama, first, those are kind of hypothetical imaginary statements I would have in my head when trying to think of something convincing.

I was addressing the point that I couldn't DISENGAGE from these points. I'm not sure what the last words before disengaging would be, but assuming I explained to her why I was giving up... that's what I was saying. They were used to kind of demonstrate how unrealistic and ridiculous it is to disengage from some things (argumentum ad absurdum). Not to explain how I speak to her.

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Sure. I said, "What's the problem, my son?"


"Well, you could give me a hug to help me calm down, and a snack. You could tell me a story. A lullaby would be helpful and lots of kisses!"
And what if you were to tell him, "Sweetie, there's nothing I'd love more. But daddy needs us now... and we have to go..."



So I will try to meet more of her needs... but honestly, it's not like my kitchen is clean (I mean, there is actually food on the floor and counters, and we do not have spoons right now, even though I washed and mopped yesterday), or my husband is happy with me, or my baby has shoes that fit.

I guess that is just one of those times that gentle has to go out the window.

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If the presumption is that children act out/badly/inappropriately b/c of unmet needs or underlying issues, and meeting those needs can do wonders to curb behavior, why wouldn't you just interact with the child?
Well I think I mentioned that my child is perfectly happy when her life is perfectly routine and I spend 100% of my attention on her 100% of the time. She has far fewer tantrums. I have time to soak grains that she likes, I can make three batches of bread so she can ruin them because what's two or five or ten hours in the greater scheme of things? We would wake in the morning and snuggle and then loll about while the eggs fried, daddy would not call (nobody would call, ever, if it were up to my kids, and yours, too, I imagine) except to speak to all of us without giving us stuff to do, the baby would sleep 24/7 and through anything even though she's already 15 months, and so on.

Sadly, that is not our life and THAT is why I wouldn't just interact with the child.

If it were just for five minutes, fine. But I assure you that we don't get to arguments right away. Ooooohhhhhh nooooooo. We try the challenge, then I try a little bit of reason and love and empathy in my last-ditch desperate attempt to be the Good Mom (admittedly my attempts are pathetic nowadays as I have more or less given up hope of her accepting empathy at that point), but that results in a two-minute discussion from which I cannot extract myself without being exceedingly rude, and then I am forced to put it out on the table: "This needs to be done in three or I'll do it for you..."

Blah.

I'm not a total introvert, I guess I'm just really easily bored. I mean I love explaining physics and other interesting questions. Explaining why we have to go shopping for the six billionth time? Not so much! And again, I need some of my energy for my other child, and my husband.

Today I had zero energy left at the end of the day and I sat on the couch and just let them stay up. Frankly, I'm ready to give up on routine in the military life. I bust my butt to have this routine stable for them and it gets screwed up at least once a week, and then I cannot DEAL with another tantrum that is coming on, I just can. not. deal.

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I plan fun stuff for us to do and hope that we won't make it. I know that sounds weird but I use it as a tool. "If we finish our errands quickly, we'll have enough time to stop at the playground. In order to finish quickly, what do we need to do?" We then list it together.
I should mention that I tried this with my child and that it sort of works. If it's a simple thing, she can keep it in mind. However, there are two drawbacks that are mentioned in this thread.

(1) Most of what we do are really necessary things, things I can't give up. Like park time. Okay, she can't go to the park. But her sister and I need vitamin D as well. Her sister loves to play as well. I need to talk with other adults. So what then? And also...
(2) Diminishing returns.

But yes, we do use that when there is a genuine chance we might miss the fun thing. I don't like to contrive it.

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You know YOUR child best so have to determine what idea might work best for her.
I feel this whole thread highlights the fact that I do NOT know what might work best for her, beyond time-outs or me in a time-out. I have such a hard time connecting with her when she's either hysterically (but happily) defiant, or angry to the point of hitting.

I do not think a hug would help her in the long run. I tried that when she was younger and it temporarily increased hitting, not that she was much of a hitter as a toddler. I think she's experimenting with what she saw other kids do at the playground.

I do appreciate it and there have been so many creative ideas here... my hormones are finally into whack so I do have more perspective. I know she is going to be stubborn but the whole needing to argue thing is just wearing me ragged, LOL!

And I also do appreciate the whole, "You are the parent!" However I feel that this often is misused to say, "You don't have to listen to the child!"

And while there are times when I simply CAN'T listen to her because we have to take the long-term, inconvenient view, there are other times when I feel like I need to hear what she's saying, and yet, "You're a blubba butt" (don't ask, I have no idea, and it's not about fat, it's about heaven knows what) is not fully communicating what she is feeling.

And yet, asking her in English isn't working either.
post #183 of 285
From reading your posts, several things are very clear to me:

1. You are worn out, momma. It's time for you to move heaven and earth to get some time for you to recover. You sound as if you're about to asphyxiate while you try to put on your daughter's air mask. It's time to put on your own and then you'll be able to deal with her.

2. Your daughter is more challenging than your average child. I can't tell over the internet if she's just really spirited or if there are other things going on that mean her development is not typical (sensory? any history of ADHD? any history of ODD?). She clearly has issues with self-regulation (many 3 year olds do), and I think that she might benefit from ideas that work with kids with sensory processing issues. Actually, I think that ALL kids would do well with a really good sensory diet, but some kids can get by without it. My favorite book is: Sensational Kids.

I've got one atypical child and one strong willed, but mostly typical kid. Our atypical kid needed to be parented very differently at times. He needed reward charts to learn to go potty. I had to specifically teach him social skills (hi, bye, please, thank you) because no amount of modeling did it. I was amazed when our daughter did learn these things on her own!

What that may mean for you is that some of these typical things don't work for your dd. It's OK. Meeting your child's needs may not be the same as meeting your parenting ideals. I'd love to have a non-coercive, consentual living house. It ain't happening with my personality or my kids' personalities. (Or my dh's for that matter.) The effort-reward ratio is too high.

3. I have, at times, put our kids in timeout and shut the door. Is it gentle? Nope. Is it better than the alternative? Yep. All of that happened when they were 3-4. Those are hard ages.

4. She's THREE. She's not a fully rational human being yet. No 3 year old is. They cannot see another person's point of view. It is just not there developmentally. I find that it helps me to remember that.

5. Have you been screened for PPD? Really, it sounds like there's more going on with you than just your dd. You are overwhelmed and frustrated. That's hard.

I would focus on getting some of your needs met. Psychological, physical, whatever.

5. You need to figure out a way to 'wait for the bus' when she tries to engage over and over again. My kids have done this, and eventually, if I'm able not to engage, it dies. The worst thing you can do is give in occasionally. That's like feeding an addiction. (Intermittent reinforcement is the most powerful reinforcement there is. That's why gambling is so addictive!)

I don't know how you can figure out how not to engage. Yes she will follow you around. Yes she will scream and stomp and maybe even hit. It will get worse before it gets better (also known as the extinction burst - one last set of tries before it goes away). But if you can do that, it will get better.

But you have to work on yourself first. What can you do to take care of yourself?
post #184 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
Well I think I mentioned that my child is perfectly happy when her life is perfectly routine and I spend 100% of my attention on her 100% of the time. She has far fewer tantrums.
Sounds like you have your answer here. Obviously, this is not be do-able all the time, but it sounds like a goal to work toward: more routine and more attention. And when the times naturally arise where it can't happen, perhaps she will be more flexible and less reactionary.

I might also consider your tone, expressions, feelings, etc. toward her for the rest of the time. I know when I'm grouchy about my kids my responses can be abrupt and my smile can be less than forthcoming. That always makes things harder. As others have said, it sounds like you are extremely frustrated with her.....and she may be picking up on that and reacting to it.
post #185 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
These are good questions and in fact I have asked her and I do care where she's coming from, but it's very hard to find out mainly because I cannot ask her when she's in a state, it's only when she's calm, and her sense of time is very vague, so her answers about the past are really unreliable. (I mean like at times she uses the wrong details, etc. leading me to believe she's talking about another time entirely.)

And then she very often says, "I don't know."
But I want to know what YOU think. She will have no idea- her brain is not developed enough... my dd is not a supergenius, I would never expect her to see herself objectively, analyze herself and be able to verbalize it. Never, no how... But as her mother, I can, and I do, and I try things accordingly. What are your impressions, intuitions, conclusions?
post #186 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
Sounds like you have your answer here. Obviously, this is not be do-able all the time, but it sounds like a goal to work toward: more routine and more attention. And when the times naturally arise where it can't happen, perhaps she will be more flexible and less reactionary.
There's two sides to it too. It's not all on mom to fulfill the child's need for attention, the child also has to learn that she is not entitled to attention 110% of the time. I have really had to correct my oldest's expectations in this regard. You could spend days trying to 'fill her up' with attention and all she would want is more. Some kids are like that. I had to really teach my DD to entertain herself. I was in a pattern of stopping whatever I was doing for her and it was not healthy at all. I now take interruptions a lot more selectively. We also started doing alone quiet time.
post #187 of 285
LynnS is right on, as usual.

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We try the challenge, then I try a little bit of reason and love and empathy in my last-ditch desperate attempt to be the Good Mom (admittedly my attempts are pathetic nowadays as I have more or less given up hope of her accepting empathy at that point), but that results in a two-minute discussion from which I cannot extract myself without being exceedingly rude, and then I am forced to put it out on the table: "This needs to be done in three or I'll do it for you..."
This sounds very exciting and interesting, though, doesn't it, seen from one point of view? I understand your conflicting impulses and the "now I'm playful...now I'm empathizing...okay, now I'm stern....now I'm just pissed" cycle. I know it all too well. Only thing is, my DD seems to find this fun and to gain more energy and thrill from it. We get a lot less drama if we go instantly to stern. NOT pissed! Just matter-of-fact stern. I mean, let me ask, has empathizing ever seemed to work on her at all? I only do empathy-based discussion with my DD way after the fact now. There is just no stinking point to it in the moment.

Also, it's only since she's hit about 6 that my DD can sometimes say "I'm acting this way because I'm upset about X." It may be a long time coming. She is an amazingly verbal child, but when it comes to her own emotions, she is not good at explaining.

I did think of one book suggestion that you might like--The Explosive Child. It addresses the issue of strong will but is very gentle. I was not patient enough to implement it myself.
post #188 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by nina_yyc View Post
There's two sides to it too. It's not all on mom to fulfill the child's need for attention, the child also has to learn that she is not entitled to attention 110% of the time.
Didn't the OP say the child is in school a good part of the day and at the park for another hour or two? I'm not recommending that she watch the child sleep or anything. But if your kid is following you around the house engaging in negative behaviors to get your attention, and when you give the child positive attention things go smoothly? Doesn't that seem like a no-brainer? And, really, at that young age I don't think the child "needs to learn" that it isn't all about her all the time. It seems that the demanding lifestyle this mom has detailed (new sibling, having to ferry the dad, etc.) already poses enough lessons for this child in that realm.
post #189 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
Didn't the OP say the child is in school a good part of the day and at the park for another hour or two? I'm not recommending that she watch the child sleep or anything. But if your kid is following you around the house engaging in negative behaviors to get your attention, and when you give the child positive attention things go smoothly? Doesn't that seem like a no-brainer? And, really, at that young age I don't think the child "needs to learn" that it isn't all about her all the time. It seems that the demanding lifestyle this mom has detailed (new sibling, having to ferry the dad, etc.) already poses enough lessons for this child in that realm.
I agree, positive attention is very helpful, but the way your post was worded it sounded like you thought the OP should aim to give the child 100% of her attention. All things in balance.

FWIW, I don't think three is too early to learn that the world doesn't revolve around you. I made that mistake with DD and hopefully DS never thinks that the world revolves around him! This time I plan to being teaching respect and working with the needs of the family from the very beginning. A lot of the AP moms I know IRL fell into the martyrdom trap, especially with oldest children, so I'm wary of this.
post #190 of 285
I am wondering how much time your DD is with you at home. She's at school full-time and then at the park for a lengthy time.

It seems there is a lot of issues happening for the 2 of you in a really short period of time.

Could it be that she needs more down time, despite her seeming to love being with people. Does she need more time at home to decompress so that things aren't rushed?
post #191 of 285
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamamille View Post
But I want to know what YOU think. She will have no idea- her brain is not developed enough... my dd is not a supergenius, I would never expect her to see herself objectively, analyze herself and be able to verbalize it. Never, no how... But as her mother, I can, and I do, and I try things accordingly. What are your impressions, intuitions, conclusions?
I don't understand her motivations when she gets that way at all. I don't get it. I am a very logical person, I don't like playing games and especially not games with people. I normally avoid such people because I hate drama. I did not realize the extent to which my husband was like this until far too late. I'm not expecting analysis from her, but "sad", "happy", "miss my grammy" or whatever would be helpful. Of course, that is not her responsibility, and I'm not expecting it. I'm just saying, I don't know and I don't feel I have a lot of clues.

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Didn't the OP say the child is in school a good part of the day and at the park for another hour or two? I'm not recommending that she watch the child sleep or anything.
No, she's in school for three hours, and at the park for 2 - 4 hrs a day (when I'm playing with her for about 10 - 100% of the time depending on who else is there).

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Does she need more time at home to decompress so that things aren't rushed?
Well... if so, she decompresses well standing by the door with shoes on asking if she can go out and play. 'Cause that's what she's doing now, on a weekend when we had a late, relaxed brunch and lots of playtime because, well, I'm depressed.


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1. You are worn out, momma. It's time for you to move heaven and earth to get some time for you to recover. You sound as if you're about to asphyxiate while you try to put on your daughter's air mask. It's time to put on your own and then you'll be able to deal with her.
Sigh. The worst comes out here. If I get a divorce, I will get a break for a short period of time until I have to really get my sh*t together.

Quote:
2. Your daughter is more challenging than your average child. I can't tell over the internet if she's just really spirited or if there are other things going on that mean her development is not typical (sensory? any history of ADHD? any history of ODD?). She clearly has issues with self-regulation (many 3 year olds do), and I think that she might benefit from ideas that work with kids with sensory processing issues. Actually, I think that ALL kids would do well with a really good sensory diet, but some kids can get by without it. My favorite book is: Sensational Kids.
Hm. She seems to adapt very well to lots of sensations. Does that book deal with children that feed of social sensations?

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What that may mean for you is that some of these typical things don't work for your dd. It's OK. Meeting your child's needs may not be the same as meeting your parenting ideals. I'd love to have a non-coercive, consentual living house. It ain't happening with my personality or my kids' personalities. (Or my dh's for that matter.) The effort-reward ratio is too high.
I guess I just wanted to try. I just wanted to try to make my home a more peaceful one.

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3. I have, at times, put our kids in timeout and shut the door. Is it gentle? Nope. Is it better than the alternative? Yep. All of that happened when they were 3-4. Those are hard ages.
Were they unable to open the door themselves, did you lock it, did you hold it shut? Because I'm not sure if I mentioned this but locking a child in the room is illegal here.

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4. She's THREE. She's not a fully rational human being yet. No 3 year old is. They cannot see another person's point of view. It is just not there developmentally. I find that it helps me to remember that.
Yes, and I do know this, all too well. Haha! But my physical violence / rudeness issues are just non-negotiable, yk?

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5. Have you been screened for PPD? Really, it sounds like there's more going on with you than just your dd. You are overwhelmed and frustrated. That's hard.
I don't have PPD, I am stuck at home with a 1 and 3 yo, my job is on hold, my husband joined the military and we get all the stuff that comes with that, he can be really mean at times, and I'm far from family. It's not hormonal, it's that our life is really hard right now, PERIOD.

And yes, I know that affects my child but I still can't let her hit or stay awake all night!

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I would focus on getting some of your needs met. Psychological, physical, whatever.
I bought a self-help book.

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I don't know how you can figure out how not to engage. Yes she will follow you around. Yes she will scream and stomp and maybe even hit. It will get worse before it gets better (also known as the extinction burst - one last set of tries before it goes away). But if you can do that, it will get better.
It is good to know there is someone else ignoring being hit, at least...
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But you have to work on yourself first. What can you do to take care of yourself?
Right now I'm here while my kids are doing God knows what in the living room. I think I just heard my rolling pin hit the tiles. Does that count?
post #192 of 285
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
Didn't the OP say the child is in school a good part of the day and at the park for another hour or two? I'm not recommending that she watch the child sleep or anything. But if your kid is following you around the house engaging in negative behaviors to get your attention, and when you give the child positive attention things go smoothly? Doesn't that seem like a no-brainer? And, really, at that young age I don't think the child "needs to learn" that it isn't all about her all the time. It seems that the demanding lifestyle this mom has detailed (new sibling, having to ferry the dad, etc.) already poses enough lessons for this child in that realm.
Brain hasn't got anything to do with it. I mean... can you tell me what to give up? Attention for the 15-month-old? Bathing myself? Eating? Sleeping?

I can appreciate that all children could use more attention, especially mine, but where do I fit that in? I clean when she's at preschool for three hours, and I'd need to do that cooking prep etc. anyway, here or not. The rest of the time I'm with her.

You mention the demanding lifestyle... really? What are YOU all doing all day?

I don't think the whole lifestyle touted in the mommy-craft blogs is realistic for most people. Most people work!

And at the same time, sometimes I'm hearing get more for myself, sometimes, get more for my kid. Turn on the TV, turn it off. Well, it's not on often...

I think I am going to just have to let it go. Whatever happens, happens. Obviously there is no right answer here and I can't find what "works" for us so oh, well.

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his sounds very exciting and interesting, though, doesn't it, seen from one point of view? I understand your conflicting impulses and the "now I'm playful...now I'm empathizing...okay, now I'm stern....now I'm just pissed" cycle. I know it all too well. Only thing is, my DD seems to find this fun and to gain more energy and thrill from it. We get a lot less drama if we go instantly to stern. NOT pissed! Just matter-of-fact stern. I mean, let me ask, has empathizing ever seemed to work on her at all? I only do empathy-based discussion with my DD way after the fact now. There is just no stinking point to it in the moment.
Yeah, but doesn't she have the right to hear someone be nice to her at first? I never know when she'll take me up on the offer.
post #193 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
Brain hasn't got anything to do with it. I mean... can you tell me what to give up? Attention for the 15-month-old? Bathing myself? Eating? Sleeping?
Seems pretty logical to me. If this is what works, when it can be done, I'd spend my time figuring out how to make it work more often.

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Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
You mention the demanding lifestyle... really? What are YOU all doing all day?
Seriously? Wow.

I've heard you say over and over again in this thread that your lifestyle is very hard on your child and you. The frequent and sudden interruptions to go get your husband, having a baby, apt. living, etc. That does sound hard. Especially, as you are saying you're kid has a hard time with change.
post #194 of 285
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
Seems pretty logical to me. If this is what works, when it can be done, I'd spend my time figuring out how to make it work more often.


Seriously? Wow.

I've heard you say over and over again in this thread that your lifestyle is very hard on your child and you. The frequent and sudden interruptions to go get your husband, having a baby, apt. living, etc. That does sound hard. Especially, as you are saying you're kid has a hard time with change.
The caps there was really unfortunate, ugh, I'm sorry. I just meant to highlight the fact that most people are doing stuff throughout the day, like cooking, cleaning, etc.

But EVERYONE is doing stuff all day, are they not? I mean, yes, the overall things can be difficult and sometimes irritating, but it's not... gosh, how do I explain. Yes, I can blame some of her behavior and my stress on the overall lifestyle, and no, I don't have help. But on the other hand, on a day-to-day basis, we take it one at a time and it's not as though we cannot manage.

I guess I just imagined that most mothers are spending their entire day cleaning, cooking, and working, and fitting in what they can here and there. I really, honestly do not know real-life moms that have a mother's helper so they can sit and do crafts while their baby I don't even know what the baby does, and then they get their break when DH comes home.

At most, they get a 45-minute break to (get ready) go shopping! Woohoo!

And I dunno... I mean, throughout the day, I never have all my stuff done, I miss several calls from DH per day, I haven't done the work I'm supposed to do, at least one room is a disaster, blah, blah, blah. It's easy to say, find a way. But I only shower two or three times a week as it is and I really like showering. I don't say that lightly--it's like, a real need for me to relax.

I also need to think of the baby. DD1 likes to craft and write and draw but the baby has to be taken away from that and they nap at the same time so guess what? We can't do much of it. Plus, at 15 months, DD2 is ready for one-on-one interactive time as well. She loves to read and play find-the-thing games in books. I wish I could read to her more.

If I can't find more time for the kids, does that mean I have to use time-outs? Because I can't prevent it? Makes me feel like GD is really not for families like ours.
post #195 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
I don't understand her motivations when she gets that way at all. I don't get it. I am a very logical person, I don't like playing games and especially not games with people.
She's three. She's not a logical person. Period. You are expecting logic where none applies. Does it suck? yes. Does it get better with time? Yes. My 9 year old can be logical. Our 6 year old has streaks of logic. But our 9 year old still has a hard time identifying emotions. Our 6 year old can easily identify (and scream) her emotions, but she can't deal with them logically.


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Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
Hm. She seems to adapt very well to lots of sensations. Does that book deal with children that feed of social sensations?
Not, but the book talks about kids who need more sensations (of all kinds) than other kids do. (Some need less, like my kid, some need more.) If she's a sensory seeker and an extrovert, and you're not, life is going to be hard for a bit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
Were they unable to open the door themselves, did you lock it, did you hold it shut? Because I'm not sure if I mentioned this but locking a child in the room is illegal here.
We sat by the door and marched them back into the room when they came out. It's not something I'd ordinarily recommend, but this was an "I'm at the end of my rope" kind of thing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
Yes, and I do know this, all too well. Haha! But my physical violence / rudeness issues are just non-negotiable, yk?
Physical violence is non-negotiable in our house. Rudeness is something different. She's THREE. She's not got the entire verbal repertoire that you'd expect out of a teen or even an older child. What if you just ignored tone and reacted only to physical issues? You can point out rudeness, even model (for us this was actually rephrasing what they'd said) what to say, but I would not expect her to repeat it back. "That's rude. Did you mean to say "Can you get me a glass of water?""

It seems to be that you're reacting to tone as much as violence and that's why you're in conflict so much. Work on one thing at a time. I guarantee that if you're in conflict all the time, the rudeness will stay. If you're not, it has a chance of going away.

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Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
because, well, I'm depressed.


I'm sorry you're depressed. It's pretty clear from your posts that you are really struggling and there's a lot of negative thinking going on. "Nothing I do will work" is classic depression. You've got a lot of stress and life circumstances that would contribute to that.

I'll repeat over and over again: You need to get help for yourself. I hope you can find a way to get that.
post #196 of 285
And I dunno... I mean, throughout the day, I never have all my stuff done, I miss several calls from DH per day, I haven't done the work I'm supposed to do, at least one room is a disaster, blah, blah, blah. It's easy to say, find a way. But I only shower two or three times a week as it is and I really like showering. I don't say that lightly--it's like, a real need for me to relax.>>>>>>

This really is normal for this stage of parenting as much as it sucks. When my kids were little(thinking 5 and under) I did what I had to do to keep the house liveable-like I made sure we had clean clothes and dishes sometimes and that was it lol. Dh did more in the housekeeping dep't(but from what you've said about dh perhaps he's not helpful?) Although a few of us have said it now it really does get better. My kids are 6, almost 9 and 11. Not only can I get cleaning done but they do some of it as well I had my 10 mth old nephew here for 2 days last week and wow did I forget how little you get done with a crawler underfoot, esp since he didn't nap or sleep well(which I expected). Thank goodness dh was home those 2 days and my older girls helped out with him. Sometimew if you think of this as a short term situation it can change your perspective.

I agree with Lynn56, sounds like you need some help. ((()))
post #197 of 285
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Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post
I'll repeat over and over again: You need to get help for yourself. I hope you can find a way to get that.
EdnaMarie i want to second, third, 4th this.

NOTHING will get 'easier' or make sense unless you get help for yourself. and yourself alone.

the worst part of depression is that all it does - imho is warp our perspective. and that ruins everything.

i know some of what you are talking about. mainly coz i have a dd like yours. and at her age i was recovering from a broken marriage. from 18 months to about 3 i was deeply depressed and in total panic mode. parenting at that time was not easy. thankfully i had lots of 'logical' help who were helping me see my dd as a child not as an adult i was expecting her to be.

perhaps you have PPD that was never taken care of. please do what it takes to be the parent you would like to be.

but it is going to be of no help expecting others to change. its you who has to do it.

please know i say this with support, not out to blame you or point fingers at you.

parenting is hard. it is much, much more harder with a spirited child. if you 'get' it it can be the easiest. but until then its a real struggle.
post #198 of 285
Thread Starter 
I didn't mean clinically depressed, I mean really sad right now! And not because of DD. Because DH is gone, he still calls just to ask me to do stuff, blah, blah, blah. Sorry, I am old and I still used "depressed" in the non-clinical term at times.

I also want to re-emphasize that my child seems very normal compared to other kids. What I think is not normal is her persistence with me, but that may be only partly inborn. We have these specific issues but they are not happening all day long.

I don't know how to explain... I really don't. It's not that I find the situation like, bad. Honestly, I'm living with about 10,000 other families that have a VERY similar situation.

It's that I do NOT see how to change the amount of time I spend with DD, or the routine we have, given the constraints we face, and therefore, I do not get how gentle solutions can be entered into every time if that is what is required.

I feel like it's unfair that in order to be a good parent I should have to have what I personally consider a luxurious lifestyle and only one child for the first five to ten years. That is just not the norm--my fertility came back when DD1 had only just taken on solids, so I know biologically I was ready by the time we TTC.

I want answers that say, "Yes, you may have a tight schedule, and yes, you may be spending 100% of the time you can with DD, but here's a trick or two that she might respond to when she responds to nothing else." And these tricks are not ignoring or time-outs or further stimulation (time-in, conversation, etc.).

Does that make sense? Am I asking for the impossible?

(PS the burrito one would wind my child up, though I might do it for fun sometime ).

Help, oh, help. It's not coming. Sorry 'bout that, but I will have to deal with this on my own.
post #199 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
I feel like it's unfair that in order to be a good parent I should have to have what I personally consider a luxurious lifestyle and only one child for the first five to ten years.
Perspective truly is everything. This summer I had four days in a row where my kids where at camp for 3 hours. In over 8 yrs. I've never had that kind of a break. Obviously, that's my choice, but I will tell you what...it was a HUGE break for me. Having kids nap at the same time? Again, that would be a dream. I also cook 2 meals for most mealtimes for my severly food allergic kids. So, I hope you don't think that I'm making these suggestions while the live-in nanny takes care of the kids and the maid is mopping the floor.

It's really, really hard when children are little. And if you don't have a grandma living next door, or a husband who helps out tons, or a kid who isn't content just playing quietly by himself for hours on end, then yeah...it's super-duper hard. Been there, done that.

But in the long run, I will say that I'm glad I made more time for my kids when they were little and let some of the other stuff go, b/c it did pay off and it continues to pay off and it's lots easier now. And even my neighbor who has 14 yr. old twins reminds me when I covet her beautifully landscaped yard, that her kids are a lot older than mine and my time will come. She's right. I have tons of free time compared to my life a few years ago. Even the other day I was marvelling at getting in the car and not having to open anyone's door, do anyone's buckles....I mean it was amazing!

I agree with a lot of what's been said these last few posts.
post #200 of 285
[QUOTE]
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Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post

I guess I just imagined that most mothers are spending their entire day cleaning, cooking, and working, and fitting in what they can here and there. I really, honestly do not know real-life moms that have a mother's helper so they can sit and do crafts while their baby I don't even know what the baby does, and then they get their break when DH comes home.
Maybe your expectations for yourself are unrealistically high right now? Do you know other AP moms with young kids?

It is absolutely normal not to have things all done every day, and be behind on things, and for the house not to look perfect.

My DH travelled a lot when DS was little, and when he didn't travel, he worked a very demanding job. I got close to zero help from him 99% of the time. During that time my standards for housework were quite low. As long as we had food (I cook from scratch) and clean laundry, we were fine. If you visit other moms only when invited, it could be quite misleading how their house REALLY looks 99% of the time.


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At most, they get a 45-minute break to (get ready) go shopping! Woohoo
!

Well, I think when one has young kids, and chooses to AP and GD, many things ARE on hold. One just need to learn to appreciate what's available. It is easier this way. I love my 45 min shopping breaks!


Quote:
And I dunno... I mean, throughout the day, I never have all my stuff done, I miss several calls from DH per day, I haven't done the work I'm supposed to do, at least one room is a disaster, blah, blah, blah. It's easy to say, find a way. But I only shower two or three times a week as it is and I really like showering. I don't say that lightly--it's like, a real need for me to relax.
That was us for a loooooooong time. Like you, I need showers to relax and refresh. It is only with my 3rd baby, when she was happy to be entertained by the other two, that I started to have showers as much as I wanted. For the first 5 years since my DD1 was born--yep, infrequent showers with 100 interruptions a minute...

It is the reality of 99% of AP families with young children--things are not done, nothing is every finished, and there are piles of clean diapers everywhere (and those of you who have it together with little ones, pssst, I don't need to know that! )
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