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Originally Posted by EdnaMarie
Who took care of the baby? I mean, that's what I do, but then my one-year-old wakes up. It's just not an OPTION for all of us to be sleep deprived all the time.
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I did. I just keep her with me, or put her down in my room on the bed when she is sleeping. It's not that big a deal. I get cross and irritatble when she wakes because of his yelling, but because I get breaks I get perspective and can breathe. I bet if you got a nice break you could face it with more light and peace, too.
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I know it's typical. How can I communicate to her that it's not acceptable, if I accept it?
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But why is it accepting the behavior or condoning the behavior to say gently "We don't use those words in our family. Please use these words instead."
I don't ACCEPT bad behavior from DS, but neither do I ascribe blame or manipulative intent when he chooses bad behavior and punish him based on that assumption. I ascibe it to his immature development. Do you see the difference?
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Because then we would never go out and it would be just me and the kids inside all day, aside from pre-school. Otherwise a very good idea.
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Sooo you can only go out between 4 and 7pm???? Really? Do you live somewhere where they have Siesta between 11am and 4pm? Can't you go out while DD1 is at pre-school? I am willing to bet that pre-school is plenty of stimulation for her for a 24 hour period (especially for a true extrovert who will actually get MORE wound up the more social she is). I am totally confused by this assertion. Why can't you go out while she is at pre-school and in the mornings and early afternoons on the weekends?
Not for everyone. For a lot of people that is not life at all. I wish you had someone near you to tell you how much you deserve and that you deserve much more than that for your life.
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We have been in the fall-asleep-in-my-bed-box. It was hellish. I am actively choosing this one over the whole "I fall asleep in mommy's bed" fiasco. Though, I am staggering bedtimes, started. Now if only I could start bedtime by 6:30 and still get my kids their necessary outdoors time... nap... three meals... ugh.
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Why can't you make bedtime at 6:30? And I do not think DD1 should sleep in your bed. Put DD2 in your bed while DD1 watches a video or has her supper, and then move her AFTER DD1 has fallen asleep. By the time DD1 is able to go to bed on her own (around 6 or 7 on average) you can start helping DD2 to make the transition.
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DH more complains than corrects. I'm sure she's modeling some of it.
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That sucks. Can you record her while he is gone so he can get that more concretely.
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It doesn't make me a bad mom but it's a massive waste of time!
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First of all, so what? Second of all, it's totally NOT a waste of time if it quiets her mind and affords you the peace you need to function. Not at ALL a waste of time.
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Well, we could always try to get jobs in the for-profit world (we were non-profit staff before) after two years. That will be impossible if he goes AWOL- he'll be in prison. All military kids go through this. It may sound rough, but then, my friend is a single mom and a farmer and she has to ask her kids to do things with her all the time, and no, it's not always predictable. Poverty sucks!
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Two years feels like a LONG time in the middle of Two years. Wokring on two contracts in my field I totally understand that...how much longer do you have? Can you see the light at the end of the tunnel?
Why?
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I live in another country (again, military, but we've lived overseas for some time). The military gives us respite care when they are deployed (a couple hours a week). Not any other time.
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Me too. Is it a cheap country? Can you get help or trade help locally? Your LO hates the babysitter you said...so what? You need a break and you will be a better mama for it if you get one. I guarantee it. She might even learn to like it eventually.
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See for me, eating, sleeping, and exercising are health. You can only let them go for so long before it does affect development. Popcorn is just an example and it's not the safest thing for pre-schoolers, either.
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Yes and when it gets to the point that it is not safe you take them to the doctors as a natural consequence of their choice and find out what is wrong because amazingly those three issues in particular are hard wired to our survival and if the child after working through their issues of resistance and will power still does not fall into their own healthy sleeping eating and exercise/play routine after a week or two left completely to their own accord, it is very possibly due to a medical or psychological issue that needs to be sorted out, but while you are in control and making demands you will never really know.
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I am not ascribing EVIL to her. She does it in a playful way, subconsciously. And she does. When I hug her, she asks for candy. Like, "Oh, she's feeling loving, I'll ask for something nice." I don't consider that evil. But it is certainly taking advantage, LOL!
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You said you believe she thinks: "Mommy cracked. She said we didn't do that, but then we did.
I can crack her again. Let's try."
If that's not ascribing malice and assuming an underlying personal attack and coniving manipulation, I do not know what is and I do not believe one could come up with that assumption if one did not feel persoanlly affronted by the behavior in question.
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It's not fun to spend every moment saying "no" either, and I say "no" way more often after a "yes" than when I say "no" definitively and give a rock-solid reason. Let me give you an example. Suppose she asks for a notebook, and I say, "Sure, because your old notebook is full."
I guarantee you, because I know her, that she will proceed to ask for everything else in the store that she wants, to argue, and cry, and whatnot and try to put it in the cart.
Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh.
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so what?
It's not a big deal. It's normal. And why spend your whole life saying no because you are afraid of the conflict if you say yes now and then...the conflict will pass eventually and you will be a happier person if you get to be fun mommy now and then.
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Whereas if I just said, "No. It's not on the list." and repeated that two or three times, she'd be okay.
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Yeah, but you feel like a bad guy because you know she needs and could make good use of a new notebook...so where's the fun for YOU, and taking care of YOUR need to be the fun mom?
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You know what? I think I said the exact opposite to my sister the other day on the phone: "I just don't see why I can't be a fun mommy and still be the authority figure at the end of the day!" I swear it was very, very similar words. Because I hate being the hard-asterisk all the time, I do! But if I don't, suddenly life becomes 10x more difficult for all of us.
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Well, that is only because, with all due respect, you expect her to behave and process information like a grown up. She doesn't, and you have to face it with firm guidelines, and LOVE.
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Sure, not if I can leave them with DH when I go shopping. But he's gone half the time and the stores here close at seven.
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huh? You do know that a child having a tantrum in a store or restaurant is not a big deal. It may give you a headache, but there is no shame in having a kid meltdown in public. Let them have at it. In fact the more public the better. Let everyone feel your pain. Pop an advil and let them scream their heads off. So what?! Every mom has had it happen and every parent in the store will comisserate with you. It's not a big deal. The others will get over it and the child will see it has ZERO affect on you. After a few years they will stop.
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I take offense at that. I'm not taking her anger personally. It is IRRITATING ME and I cannot take care of our other child, and we can't do the things I think they deserve to do, including eat decent meals! I know she's only three.
But I think asking a 3.5 year old not to say you are disgusting is reasonable. I really do.
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I am sorry I offended you. It was not my intention, but you seem to take it personally when you say that she is TRYING to wind you up and is TRYING to get away with stuff.
If she is impeding you from caring for your other child or putting nutritious food on the table, you need help. It is absolutely NOT a reasonable request of a 3.5 year old to communicate respectfully and politely all the time. They do not have the language skills at the age to communicate in a non-violent way when they feel they are under attack, or angry or frustrated. They don't. It really is YOUR job to rise above it and say calmly and lovingly "I hear that you are very angry/sad/disappointed/frustrated, but your words are very hurtful right now. I will not sit here and be abused. When you are ready to apologize, let me know." give a hug and walk away.
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But we don't say we are throwing someone in the trash can when we are angry or frustrated! We don't say, "You're disgusting!" We don't hit. She does all of these things. Again, I realize that they are common but they are also NOT ACCEPTABLE.
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One: she must be hearing something like that somewhere. This is not an innate concept. Maybe you don't say that in your house...well keep reminding her of that. Two: No one said you have to ACCEPT it, but you could try to be empathetic and understanding and not assume the worst of your child. THAT would be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Have you spoken to your counselor about the possiblity of hormone treatment or psyhotropic drugs? Our bodies are drastically changed by pregnancy hormones and according to my midwife after each kid our hormones become more and more whacky and unpredictable and our mental chemistry is all askew. Maybe some chemical replacements might not be a bad idea for you. At least keep a handy stash of Advil and rescue remedy!
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What do you suggest? Thoughtfully answering approximately, let's see, it's about ten questions a minute on average, sixty per hour (no she doesn't breathe, she's three), she talks with her mouth full though it does slow her down but about half of her speech is refusing or telling stories so I'm guessing with 12-13 waking hours, that's 360 questions a day?
About, for example, why heat burns our fingers?
And NO she does not wait to hear the real answer, either, but if I don't reply, she complains.
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ummmm, yes
Sorry but yeah. You can say periodically "Okay! That's enough Question shop is CLOSED!" or make a game of it by giving her a stack of playing cards and she is allowed to ask one question for every card and that's it for the day (good luck! Ha ha!) But mostly, yes...just answer as thoughtfully as you can.
The thing I found that really helped DS was when I would sit with him and we would google stuff. He'd say "Why does heat burn our fingers?" and we'd go look it up which would at least pause the questions for a little while...sometimes.
not always. I went through a lot of Advil that year...should have bought stock in Bayer!
Mostly you just put up with it for the next year or so and if it doesn't calm down, she'll be able to start reading and can look the stuff up herself.
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We don't force food-she never has to eat anything. She eats what we eat, or plain bread (she can have condiments if she doesn't like something), or she doesn't eat.
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Do you think it might be time to re-think that strategy? Do you think maybe a shelf of healthy foods might work well for her? Do you think an earlier dinner might suit her so you can have YOUR dinner hot and healthy and PEACEFUL? Just a thought.
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But NO sleep schedule works. She complains no matter when we put her to bed. She can be yawning and her eyes batting and she still desperately tries to stay awake. If we let her, she's up until midnight or later and then up in the morning and a mess.
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I'm confused, upthread you said she sleeps and wakes at the same time everyday and if it were up to her she'd be asleep at 5pm...
.Isn't that a sleep schedule that could work for her? Sounds to me that by the time she gets to 7pm she is over stimulated again and cannot sleep.
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She learns a lot alone, I think. All I'm asking is that she does not treat me like a dog or something. No yelling, no name-calling, none of that stuff. And that she respects the fact that sometimes our family has to do what she doesn't want to do. I don't think that's such a big deal. She has lots of free time, art time, play time, play breaks, park time...
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But to her it IS a big deal. Remember when you were a teenager and something REALLY small was like the END of the WORLD? It's like that EVERY DAY, EVEYRY MOMENT for toddlers. Every denial is the end of their life as they know it. Every disappointment is the pinnacle of defeat. They see the world in dramatic vignettes, and every moment is capable of providing total elation or total depression. So asking her to put it perspective and appreciate how much she does get is TOTALLY unreasonable. She doesn't get it. Even super smart genius babies don't get this stuff. She won't get it for a long time. Some kids don't get it until they have their own kids.
You don't need to accept the bad choices, but you will need to accept her feelings about her choices if you want a relationship with your child where she trusts you implicitly, and you will need to listen openly to the feelings that led to those choices. You will need to ask why she made those choices and listen with an open mind, even when she starts lying bald faced lies. You will need to guide her towards making better choices by giving her the freedom to make the choice when it isn't a
life or death issue. Maybe that should be your health and safety water-mark. Is this life or death? If not, let it go.
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Yeah, I'm going to eat meat. Sorry. I know PLENTY of people who eat meat, who make casseroles, who have a normal (not perfect, of course! but also not appalling) house, and who sleep more than four hours a night. And they also have two small kids, or even three.
I simply don't believe we have to be anemic and live in squalor, which would happen if I didn't clean or cook, just so that my 3.5 year old can have the luxury of questioning everything and being rude. I mean, does that make sense?
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I do not see the connection. Who said you have to give up meat? Who said you need to live in squalor (though I dare say your definition of squalor and mine may vary GREATLY.)? who said you need to cater to her whims? Will you need to reheat your dinner three times to eat it hot? Probably. Will you need to work harder to keep your house tidy? Definitely. Can you get more sleep? I think you can unless there are physical problems in question but not if you demand she shift to your schedule rather than the other way around.
Make casseroles on the weekends, and freeze them. Learn a few recipes for dinner that can go in a crockpot and get one at a garage sale. Do something to mitigate the circumstances rather than expecting a toddler/child to get with the proverbial program. Change the program.
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I dunno, I feel like you think I'm asking for sympathy or complaining. HOnestly, I did not expect it to be easier. I want to do something so that she does not get the idea that it's okay to argue with everything. I'm not sure if that's getting across. It is just NOT okay to tell someone else they're wrong all the time. It's rude, it's a time-waster, it's irritating, and thoughtless contradiction is also just silly.
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You don't need to ask for sympathy. Your situation is impossible. I guess you have to ask yourself WHY it is not okay to argue with EVERYTHING and if that's even true. Maybe you CAN argue about everything. Maybe a truly intelligent person DOES argue and turn over the evidence of EVERYTHING and maybe you should try and enjoy the fact that you have a kid who will do that rather than just accept what they are told as fact and wind up in serious trouble following the advice of those who wish them harm.
There's the time waster comment again...what's the big deal with wasting time? You got somewhere to be? Are you dying in a few weeks or something? (god almighty please don't let that be true) Try to think of it as SPENDING time rather than wasting it. I am sure she sees it that way. I know the ethos of most western countries is that time is money, but that is a false paradigm. Time is not money. Time is time. Money is money. You can exchange your time for money, but you cannot exchange your money for time. You cannot buy back these days with your kids. They are gone and gone forever. If you can delight in her mental process or find SOME ounce of joy in her personality, maybe you can see it as a good value for your time, rather than a waste.
It's not universally rude to tell someone they are wrong all the time. It can be an important life skill. She may well grow up to be the top problem solver in the UN and tell everyone they are wrong all the time and wind up reaching world peace if she learns how to do it nicely.
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Yes, she is learning but there must be a way to say, "This is an emergency. We are not arguing any more."
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That's it. That's how you say it. I would follow that up with "It's okay to be mad or sad about this, but it IS happening, so let's get on with it. I love you and will listen to you if you need to vent."
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Five times a day. That's all I'm asking. Two sleeps, two car trips, one other emergency, let's just say. Without screaming, without negotiating, without bargaining. I've seen people do it. Their kids just follow them out of the store. Like that. Like magic.
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HA! What you don't see would amaze you. How about the fifty other times when they didn't do that. How about the YEARS and YEARS of cajoling and pleading and rationalizing and reasoning...oh god. It's not magic, it's just lucky timing that you saw those kids that day.
We see ourselves in measurement to others when we believe we have to live up to some impossible standard. Every parent has had their fair share of tantrums and screaming. EVERY parent. You see them for a glimpse and think they must be doing something different? If only the young human mind could be so predictable.
Take a break. Make less opportunities for the screaming matches (like if she dropped her nap and went to bed earlier when she is normally tired as you mentioned above, that would be two fewer screaming matches a day. ) and let the other wash over you as much as you can. "Just I am sorry you feel that way. I still love you."
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Ohhh, don't even read the thread about my husband. Honestly, he's beyond hope.
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Not to get personal, but since I think that ship has more than set sail...why are you with him?
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I see what you're saying, but I guess I'm not willing to give up on the fact that there are certain things we do, and certain things we don't do, even if we are three. I wouldn't let a two-year-old call me garbage, either.
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You don't need to let her call you garbage, I never said that. But neither do you need to take it to heart and hold a grudge when she does. You can choose any number of responses that do not exacerbate the situation and instead offer her empathy and safety and kindness to work through her anger and find the words more easily with every melt down.
There
are certain things we do and don't do, but it takes a long time to learn what those are, not a year of repetition, YEARS and YEARS of repetition. Years and years.
I hope you find a way to get a break soon.
It must be very overwhelming. I absolutely cannot imagine the stress. It must be heart wrenching to feel torn between the two like that.
well, in my circle of friends and family this sort of precociousness is totally expected of the under fives. I said five more years because she has an 18 mo old as well. In Latin America it is practically encouraged. It's just not a big deal where we have had kids. I really think expecting three year olds to act like older kids is not fair.
) time we had ice cream for dinner, I say "oh yes that was a fun treat"
) advice is to shift your thinking from that of "making" her do to finding ways to model cooperation and "yes." It will come back around. And you may find yourself a lot less stressed out--god knows I have!
)
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